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  #101  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
I remember one episode in which Jack McCoy promised the suspect that he would receive immunity. (Saying something like, "I promise you that the Manhattan district attorney's office or the Office of the New York County District Attorney will not prosecute you.") After receiving a confession, McCoy stepped aside as the guy was arrested and charged by the Brooklyn district attorney.
I think that was Ben Stone. The suspect had some connections for Russian organized crime and Stone made a deal with the guy's Russian-born attorney that New York County would not prosecute. Brooklyn is King's County.
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  #102  
Old 01-27-2020, 01:08 AM
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I just watched the episode "Fools for Love". It was a very good episode. But there were many big differences between the episode and the reality.

I suppose that is certainly nothing to complain about. After all, the producers of the show have entirely different objectives than the news media who reported this story. But I thought some of you might enjoy hearing some of the differences between the reality and the TV show.

In reality, the female got hardly any jail time - my memory is that she was only jailed for about 2 or 3 years. Her lawyer got her an incredible deal. On the show, she got 25 years to life - which is what I think most people would have said she deserved.

They could have easily turned this into 2 or 3 episodes. I remember another case there were 3 episodes when some killer who resembled Ted Bundy left a trail of bodies all across the country. He and Abbie Carmichael got into some very nasty personal exchanges. This guy was the mother of all creeps. I'm pretty certain they did 3 episodes on this story line but so far as I remember, they never showed us how it all ended. Maybe I missed an episode somewhere along the way.

In an case, back to "Fools for Love", they did a good job showing how incredibly creepy the female was. But they portrayed the male as a very normal individual which I found very strange because he had a very long history of raping and killing girls. He began his spree - which lasted about 6 years - when he was quite young and lived in an area called Scarborough. He raped girls for many years (maybe 5 years) and was never caught. He was given the nickname, "The Scarborough Rapist" and it seems so incredible that he could have been raping girls for something like 5 years in the same location while holding down a full time job as an accountant and was never caught. He was only caught when he made the mistake of beating his gf and she then turned him in. All in all, a very incredible story.
In the real world, one of the girls that Bernardo and Homolka raped was Homolka's 15 year old little sister, who died due to the drugs they sedated her with.
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  #103  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:54 AM
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I was watching a rare episode I either missed in its original run or only saw once and completely forgot and she was distractingly bad. You can see it sometimes on the faces of the actors in her scenes. No matter how good they are, a brief moment of confusion passes over their face and then they read their lines.

Anyway, I love the series and still watch it and I still get mad at NBC for canceling it. I watched the first season of SVU and hated it. I watched CI and I mostly enjoyed it, despite it being wildly different in tone and style from time to time. I didn't mind the LA one, but that got canceled quick and I don't think I ever saw any of the other versions. My true favorite "spin off" is "Basic Lupine Urology" from Community.

I don't love the first few seasons, but I liked Paul and the two cops and early Claire. I am more likely to watch something else if that's the block on WETV on the weekends. I don't like the guy who took over as ADA when Jack when full DA. And most of all I hate the episode where it turns out he's maybe not really a lawyer and that episode seems to be in the heaviest rotation. His accent is terrible and distracting, but I'd rather watch him all day every day than one Rohm episode.
I found one example that IMHO constitutes some of the worst acting I have ever seen on this series. If anyone is interested, check out Season 13 Episode 24 - Smoke.

If you FF to the 30 minute mark, there is a scene with Serena, Jack McCoy and Arthur Branch in which Serena reads her lines in such a wooden manner that I have to say I have never seen worse acting on this show. I want to stress this is only my opinion and I am certainly no expert on acting to be sure. But when she reads these lines, I cannot see any emotion. It's like a ten year old who is learning to read was speaking these lines.

The role of the female A.D.A. is so pivitol to this series, I have to ask how someone with such an incredible lack of acting skills ever got to play such a high powered role. The other women who have played this role were - again in my opinion - real standouts and I enjoyed them immensely.

So what was going on with Rohm? Does anyone know how or why she ever got this role?
  #104  
Old 01-28-2020, 07:27 AM
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....I liked some of the really twisty cases on L&O - the grandmother who hires a hitman (and it turns out she was right - her daughter-in-laws new husband did kill her son) and gets on so well with Lenny, ......
Great episode. Grandma was played by Frances Sternhagen. If I recall correctly, the character agreed to plead guilty in exchange for NY law enforcement fully investigating her son's death.
  #105  
Old 01-28-2020, 07:29 AM
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Another great Jack McCoy moment: irritated at the exclusion of evidence by the judge, McCoy asks Curtiss if he was looking for the murder weapon before he and Brisco visited the defendant's apartment. "Yes" "How about after you left?" (McCoy ends up in jail for contempt).
Ha! That's a good "you can't unring the bell" example.
  #106  
Old 01-28-2020, 10:02 AM
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Speaking of the Rohmbot's acting skills, I swear there was an episode where Serena introduced herself as "Sabrina". Did anyone else hear that? If so, what episode was it? It seemed very clear to me at the time that she said the wrong name.

Her exit from the show seemed like the producers were mocking her - "here's a really classy way to leave the show. You'll make a difference by coming out. It'll be awesome!" As they snickered behind her back with a parting FU to Rohm. (It also is a slam on her law-talkin' and cognitive skills, too. When Branch says "no" to her famous question, she accepts it! Like, "OK good the know!" She never considers he's lying. No lawsuit will be forthcoming.)

Because they could have done a good job - there were gay-themed episodes near the end of her run, and the groundwork could have been set down for the reveal. But, nope. In one, she had an argument with Branch and she was right, but he stomped her down. I would have quit, too.
  #107  
Old 01-28-2020, 11:05 AM
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Speaking of the Rohmbot's acting skills, I swear there was an episode where Serena introduced herself as "Sabrina". Did anyone else hear that? If so, what episode was it? It seemed very clear to me at the time that she said the wrong name.
In another episode - I think it was maybe late Season 12 or early Season 13 - I distinctly remember Ed reading someone their rights and instead of saying,

"Anything you say may be used against you" ... he said

"Anything you say will be held against you".

I have no idea if this was intentional but I can't believe it could be because it would certainly be grounds to blow the conviction.

I'm just curious if anyone else heard it as well?
  #108  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:46 PM
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I found one example that IMHO constitutes some of the worst acting I have ever seen on this series....

.. there is a scene with Serena, Jack McCoy and Arthur Branch in which Serena reads her lines in such a wooden manner that I have to say I have never seen worse acting on this show.
That would be Every Episode she is in.
  #109  
Old 01-28-2020, 03:54 PM
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That would be Every Episode she is in.
She had a weird yell-talk way of speaking. Like they gave her the direction "this thing you're about to say is the most important thing you've ever said." She never tones it down.
  #110  
Old 01-28-2020, 04:18 PM
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I wonder if this evidently accidental shooting of a 1-year-old will turn up in SVU next season, given that the shooting was initially blamed on a criminal third party.
  #111  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:40 AM
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That would be Every Episode she is in.
I don't dispute this one bit and I have nothing good to say about her acting.

But I looked her up on IMDB and was shocked to see this lady has been working steadily on all kinds of movies and TV shows ever since L&O. Most of the things she's worked on seem to be pretty terrible. But that is no different from almost any other actor - regardless of skill. Almost every product is pretty terrible.

But this really intriques me.

What does success as an actor require if it clearly does not require any skill?

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-29-2020 at 05:41 AM.
  #112  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:24 AM
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Speaking of good actors and bad actors ...

I just watched Season 14 Episode 9 - "Compassion" about a lady doctor who poisoned some con man and got off because she had worked all her life with children dying of cancer. The episode is called Compassion because McCoy actually softened his heart out of compassion for this woman.

The lady who played the doctor is Ann Dowd. I had never before heard anything about this actor but she pulled off one of the greatest jobs of acting I've ever seen on this series. The best part came at the end when she explained her position and the tears flowed down her face. Her skill at acting was just unbelievable.
  #113  
Old 01-29-2020, 08:05 AM
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It's hard to pick a favorite, but I tend to favor the older episodes. I though Logan brought a great chemistry to the scenes...like the one where he puts an unruly suspect in a chokehold and the kid dies. (Turns out he had a brain injury from being put into a headbox by a shady doctor trying to treat his autism.)

I wish Paul Sorvino had stayed longer. That episode where he's shot by a gun-seller was incredible. And the ending where Stone says to Schiff, "She doesn't have an uncle." All these great actors conveying an emotion with a brow lift.
  #114  
Old 01-29-2020, 09:30 AM
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One of my favorite episodes is Just Another Girl in the World. Camille Chen was fantastic as the helpless victim/seductress/murderer.
  #115  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:04 PM
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One of my favorite episodes is Just Another Girl in the World. Camille Chen was fantastic as the helpless victim/seductress/murderer.
And all we seem to see her in is commercials.

We always go "there's Lupo's girrrlfriend!"
  #116  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:06 AM
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I just watched a great episode - Season 15 Episode 14 - All in the Family.

It starred Mercedes Reuhl and although I knew she was a fine actor from her performance in, "The Fisher King", https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101889...nm_flmg_act_48

I never really appreciated just how truly great she was until I saw her in this episode. Her character was married to a man in the Diamond Trade who was cheating on her and involved with some particularly nasty mobsters.

I had never seen this before, but McCoy realized she had outsmarted him and he
SPOILER:
actually withdrew the charges against her when the trial was almost over. He knew when he was licked.
Of course that had nothing to do with her acting. It was the writers who came up with that.

Nonetheless her performance was an incredible powerhouse. I want to recommend this episode to anyone who is a fan of this show or a fan of Mercedes Reuhl or just a fan of great acting.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-31-2020 at 02:07 AM.
  #117  
Old 01-31-2020, 10:58 AM
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"Anything you say may be used against you" ... he said

"Anything you say will be held against you".

I have no idea if this was intentional but I can't believe it could be because it would certainly be grounds to blow the conviction.
Why would that blow a conviction? Miranda doesn't require extremely specific language. The NYPD has a policy for the phrasing of Miranda warnings like pretty much every PD, but deviating from it doesn't invalidate the warning. From a quick google search it looks like the actual NYPD line is 'can and will be used against you', and I think the 'mistaken' line is actually closer to that than the 'standard' line.

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  #118  
Old 01-31-2020, 11:04 AM
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I vaguely remember an episode of this or another crime drama in which the Miranda warning was either flubbed or omitted and the prosecution argued that the defendant should not have needed it. (I think the defendant in that case was either a career criminal or a lawyer himself.)
  #119  
Old 01-31-2020, 11:33 AM
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Why would that blow a conviction? ......
I honestly don't know.

It just sounded strange to me and I wanted to know if other people remembered it or had some opinion on whether there was some kind of joke going on.
  #120  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:59 AM
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A Brief Tribute to Law & Order


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I dont know if its still around but one of the tv boards used to have a "repeat offenders " list of everyone who'd guested and L&O more than once and who tye played each time

actually, he claimed all he did for L&o was play a more serious version of a character hed played on murder she wrote and even had an ill-fated spin-off that lasted maybe 3 episodes .....

supposedly the character was supposed to be more serious but he lightened it up because MSW wasn't a "hard" toned show
"The Law and Jerry McGraw"?
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  #121  
Old 02-01-2020, 11:29 AM
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I remember Jaime Ross saying that suspects are entitled to an attorney, not a good attorney. (The lawyer in this case was Jerry Stiller).
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  #122  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:07 AM
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I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn't about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it.

There was a very early Jack/Claire episode where they're talking in Jack's office. Jack opens a door, stands behind it, and proceeds to change into his jeans all the while talking with Claire. I absolutely cannot see that flying today.
  #123  
Old 02-02-2020, 11:09 AM
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Stupid 502 error made duplicate post

Last edited by ivylass; 02-02-2020 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Removed duplicate post
  #124  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:55 PM
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Dick Wolf must be salivating over the "ripped from the headlines" Law & Order episodes he can make from the real like tale of Fotis Dulos
  #125  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:50 PM
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I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn't about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it.
Abbie Carmichael was a great character, maybe the best in the show's run (better than my fancrush, Ben Stone, and better than St. Briscoe). Electric in her scenes. Problem is that she was written as too powerfully - she overshadowed the rest of the ensemble, and McCoy in particular. She got her comeuppance once or twice, but needed it more often for compelling drama.


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There was a very early Jack/Claire episode where they're talking in Jack's office. Jack opens a door, stands behind it, and proceeds to change into his jeans all the while talking with Claire. I absolutely cannot see that flying today.
I think it would, but there probably would need to be an episode in which McCoy had to deal more directly with his various explicit or implied relationships with his ADAs.
  #126  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:28 PM
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I remember at the time there was much gnashing of teeth when Claire Kincaid left and much hatred for Abbie Carmichael, but I Angie Harmon a great ADA. She wasn't about to put up with nonsense and there were a couple of cases where Jack and Adam threw up their hands and said fine, you try it.
I think Season 10 had the best character combo. Briscoe, Green, Mcoy, Carmichael, and Schiff. Shame they were only all together for that season.
  #127  
Old 02-03-2020, 03:43 PM
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I think that was Ben Stone. The suspect had some connections for Russian organized crime and Stone made a deal with the guy's Russian-born attorney that New York County would not prosecute. Brooklyn is King's County.
Yep. Saw this episode recently. Possibly because this thread was in my head when Stone made the offer, it was blindingly obvious what he was setting up, and the guy seemed even more blindingly stupid for going along with it.
  #128  
Old 02-03-2020, 07:22 PM
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"The Law and Jerry McGraw"?
Harry McGraw. 16 episodes, and then he went back to MSW for a few more.
  #129  
Old 02-03-2020, 11:44 PM
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I started re-re-watching the series earlier this fall. One episode a night, but really more like two because they're so addictive. I'm halfway through season 7.

I'm giving special mention here to Steven Hill and S. Epatha Merkerson. They were both fucking brilliant. They had such good lines. Hill does a lot of mouth acting. I just watched that episode that's been mentioned a few times in this thread, where McCoy goes to jail for contempt. Hill does some great acting in that one. I love when the female assistants challenge him, and I especially love when he has a scene with a defendant or another lawyer. Steven Hill as Adam Schiff is just a fantastic character.

And S. Epatha Merkerson, she has all the sass and all the power and she has some of the best damn lines. Love her!

I've really enjoyed all the characters so far (and yes, I have already watched the series twice through)...I'm sad when anyone leaves and quickly forget them because of their fantastic replacements.

What a damn good show.
  #130  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:17 AM
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I will politely disagree about Steven Hill's acting chops. In many episodes he reads his lines like the take they used is the first time he's seen them. Weird pauses that don't match the words, wrong inflection. He doesn't seem to be looking at the people in the scene with him. He's reading his lines in a vacuum. He wasn't much better on M:I, when he bothered to show up.

And then there are episodes like where his wife died. That was brilliant.
  #131  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:40 AM
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I totally get where you're coming from but I find that to be part of the charm of the character. To me it's interesting to see the juxtaposition of him versus the dynamic DAs.
  #132  
Old 02-07-2020, 01:18 AM
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I've been taking in some clips on YouTube recently. In fact, I just got around to one of my favorites, the climax of "The Troubles," where the smug IRA terrorist thinks he's doing OK until Ben Stone produces a rebuttal witness that completely tanks his nice-guy act. The witness does kind of get gift-wrapped to him in a rather convenient way, but I'm willing to let it slide for the sake of television. "You hardly forget the face of the man who slaughtered your ENTIRE family!" is such a stunner of a line.
  #133  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:10 PM
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And then there are episodes like where his wife died. That was brilliant.
Just a little whimper as his wife flat-lines. Heart-breaking.
  #134  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:20 PM
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If I recall correctly, Orbach was a song and dance man who got his breaks in The Fantasticks back in the early 1960s, so I go with item 1 on Charlie's list... though Orbach may have decided that "playing himself" was just easier as he got older.
Seems to me that he was capable of appearing to be playing himself- and not "putting on the well-crafted face". His work always felt natural.

I had a very intense and cherished week in Marrakech with Jerry and his lovely wife many years ago on a shoot. He was a pretty decent actor, a hell of a song-and-dance man. And a very kind and caring human being.
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  #135  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:39 AM
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Binging some episodes last night, I've discovered my one annoyance with the show: The arraignment scenes. They all follow the same basic pattern.
1) Defendant acts indignant
2) Judge gets irritated
3) Junior ADA explains the crime and requests remand
4) Defense attorney says the charges are bogus
5) Judge says to save it for trial

Except for a few episodes where you might get a bad judge or the defendant goes on the run, it doesn't do anything to move the plot forward.
  #136  
Old 02-10-2020, 05:30 PM
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Well, there's the one where the mother of the slain daughter brings a gun to court and shoots the suspect, but I think usually it's a way for the actor playing the arraignment judge to have a bit of snarky screen time.
  #137  
Old 02-10-2020, 07:58 PM
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The arraignment scenes are probably an atavism from when the show was supposed to be shown in two part in syndication. It sets the tone for the crime for the audience that didn't see the "Law" part (or is it "Order" first?)
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