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  #101  
Old 12-02-2010, 03:09 PM
Baal Houtham is offline
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Originally Posted by heatmiserfl View Post
I'm still not getting this. Why would either partner want to continue a marriage in which one of the partners is no longer in love?

Also, he wanted children. Should he have children with someone who doesn't love him?
Hi Heatmizr,

My take: Love is more "actions and attitude" than it is a feeling. Anyone who expects a SO to provide ongoing joy after the initial rush of romantic love is going to have problems with marriage and should probably just live together with someone.

You can reasonable expect a spouse to:
--actively try to see your side
--to do "little favors" for you
--to try to satisfy most of your sexual desires
--to support and encourage your ambitions as long as they don't hurt the relationship (... so if your ambition is to watch TV all day, that's not good.)
These are Actions and Attitude.

If a spouse does all that, merely "falling out of love with the person" is a shitty reason to leave the marriage -- unless both partners mutually decide to break up. If the wife wants kids and the husband absolutely does not, then they might well mutually decide to end things, and it would be fine.

If you were ever in love with your spouse, and they don't give you reason to stop being in love, then you should consciously decide to stay "in love" with them. I love my wife, my dog and my child. If a young lady with a nice figure and good teeth should become fascinated with me and want me to move to Toronto with her it would be a a rotten thing to do, even if I was swept up in Love for young lady and suddenly felt only indifference to wife, child and dog. Being "in love" or "not in love" is pretty much unimportant in such a case. The actions and attitudes of my wife/dog/daughter haven't changed, and I'll try to not change mine merely because I'm not feeling "love."

Again, people can do what they want and it's not the end of the world. especially if there are no children involved. But anyone who feels that a wealthy guy shouldn't trade in his 45 yo wife for a newer model, shouldn't approve of a woman leaving (and hurting) a man just because she is no longer "in love."

Please excuse all the quotation marks around "love" but it means a lot of different things at a lot of different times.
  #102  
Old 12-02-2010, 03:22 PM
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Baal Houtham has nailed it.
  #103  
Old 12-02-2010, 03:43 PM
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  #104  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:07 PM
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Hi Heatmizr,

My take: Love is more "actions and attitude" than it is a feeling. Anyone who expects a SO to provide ongoing joy after the initial rush of romantic love is going to have problems with marriage and should probably just live together with someone.
Actions and attitudes can't be separated from feelings and emotions. Long term memory requires emotional context. Subsequent actions and attitudes are influenced by the memories. So even defining love and trying to differentiate it from infatuation or romantic love is pretty tough. We humans like to think we're rational and capable of having the correct attitude and act accordingly but we're not and we don't, all the time. We also like to think that love and friendship are special forces that are always present and only need some work to keep going. Working on relationships typically helps them but not always.

Where it won't work is when something about the people changes significantly, personality or perspective on life. I'm not talking about midlife crisis or chasing after young meat. I'm talking about people changing enough that they are no longer compatible. Drastic changes don't happen often but they can. This happens frequently in peoples' 20's but sometimes later, particularly due to a life-altering event. The effort to "work things out" in this situation may be futile and I don't even see the point as long as children are not involved.


Disclaimer: people also thing they "fell out of love" because they simply became bored. That's also not what I'm talking about. In fact, boredom is fairly easy to fix in a relationship.

Last edited by heatmiserfl; 12-02-2010 at 05:11 PM.
  #105  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:10 PM
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Nothing changed in this case. She just left on a capricious, childish whim (most probably because she was already sleeping with that other guy).
  #106  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:23 PM
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Nothing changed in this case. She just left on a capricious, childish whim (most probably because she was already sleeping with that other guy).
Yeah, back to the topic of the thread, I agree.

My comments were directed to some people thinking that because someone wants a divorce after 6 years that person must have not been in love in the first place or is a cunt. I think that's pretty simplistic.
  #107  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:31 PM
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There's probably more thoughts in the whole of this thread than in the navel-gazing faux-feminist book writen by a caricature of "Female Magazine Contributor".

I am amazed that this thread could go on for 3 pages.
  #108  
Old 01-06-2011, 07:50 PM
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Me, me, me


the movie could be summarized as the egotist journey of a selfish cunt.
i mean come on, this spoil middle class writer, has a loving husband, a great house, lives in a great city, and all she can think of is how unhappy she is (typical north american by the way).
she suddenly decides god has spoken to her (deluted bitch), and starts a journey of self discovery, ditching everyone from her husband to her lover, friends and family.
the movie continues with her not having any sex, and overcompensating with food (which by the way doesn't seem to make julia roberts gain any fat).
she then goes to India, and again not even moved by the dreadful social conditions and well... the goddamn misery they have to suffer every day, nooo... she is just to worried she can't "free her mind" (??). in the end she ends up lying to this girl about how she knows how happy the indian girl is gonna be in her unwanted arranged marriage because her gift is prayer (what the f#)=?).
the amazing thing is that when you reach to almost the end of the movie you think at least she might have learn something. after all a year off not everyone can afford in this life, but nooo... she needs some so called spiritual guru (who is in dire need of a dental plan) to tell her to go look for her boyfriend who she ditched days before (because she wasn't sure that that was what she wanted, or maybe she was unhappy again... who the heck knows anymore), and of course in the end when they get into the boat all you can think is poor guy, he does not know what's coming...
bottom line, this is the story a spoiled good looking woman, who doesn't have the slightest clue what to do, and needs constant advice from strangers to be happy.
  #109  
Old 11-23-2013, 05:15 AM
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A cunt, I highly concur!


I got eighty pages into this book before I relegated it to toilet paper. But Gilbert's prose was so abrasive that after 20 wipes my ass developed an angry rash and I had to throw her book it in the recycling bin.

The eat pray love is indeed cuntery, and Gilbert is a Pungent Fanny-Rat.

Hopefully her new husband bails out on her in favour of Pasta and fornication with other women. Then she can put all that knowledge of karma which she learnt in her ashram to good use.

Cunt
  #110  
Old 11-23-2013, 05:22 AM
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The worst thing about Eat Pray Love is that once upon a time Elizabeth Gilbert was a terrific journalist.
  #111  
Old 11-23-2013, 10:29 AM
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Zombies aside, IIRC. Gilbert' a ex-husband is a lawyer and a former director for HRW. who spent considerable time in conflict ridden places. I think his book (should such a beast exist) would be far more interesting than anything Gilbert had written.
  #112  
Old 11-23-2013, 05:14 PM
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I came in to post my agreement with the OP, only to discover that someone had made precisely the points I wished to make.

As it turned out, it was me:

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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
Well.... She writes, "I moved right in with David after I left my husband." And, "I clung to David for escape from marriage as if he were the last helicopter pulling out of Saigon." You make it sound like taking a lover was completely unrelated to her divorce, but she certainly didn't take any time to lick her wounds, now did she? ...

I don't know what Gilbert is like in real life, and I haven't seen the movie, but I do have a problem with the way she casts herself in the book. "I won't open any of that," she says high-mindedly with regard to why she left her husband, and then just a few pages later opens it up after all, and in a way designed to make him seem mean and petty and toddler-like.
Great minds run in the same gutter.
  #113  
Old 11-23-2013, 11:23 PM
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I haven't read or watched it.

Just wanted to say, that a couple of years ago I went through a really tough summer with my now ex, as she was 'falling out of love' after 10 years together. She traveled home to be with her mother and 'to think'. They went to this movie and 6 days later she ended it with me and moved out.

just wanted to share...
  #114  
Old 11-24-2013, 12:48 AM
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  #115  
Old 11-24-2013, 04:23 AM
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I see a lot of posts defending the actual author's right to leave her husband of six years, but the original question was about the character in the movie that may not be an accurate depiction of the author or the author's character as portrayed in the book. Leaving her husband is not cuntentious. Dumping her loving husband without a second thought about his feelings is cuntbaggery. Telling herself that leaving this (apparently faithful and devoted) husband to fly around the world fucking other men is some sort of spiritual journey or feminist ideal is even worse. I love Italy and thought I could put up with the central character long enough to enjoy the locales, but I was unable to finish this movie.
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  #116  
Old 11-24-2013, 09:21 AM
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I don't see how you can anticipate changing your mind or just take it for granted that you will. That makes no sense to me. You can certainly always acknowledge that it's a possibility, but a certainty? What? She was certain that she would change her mind? That comes off as dissembling and self-serving to me. If she was really willing to stake a lifetime commitment on a certainty that she would change her mind about something years down the road, then she was an idiot to begin with.
I realize this poster is gone, but the point remains rebuttable:

I dunno. People take out Adjustable Rate Mortgages all the time, and those rely on rosy predictions for the future no less than "getting used to the idea" of changing one's mind about kids.
  #117  
Old 11-24-2013, 04:00 PM
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I was kinda wondering why this thread got bumped - the cunt getting punted, as it were.
  #118  
Old 11-24-2013, 04:52 PM
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Just reverse the roles. If it was a man who did all that- he'd be denounced as the biggest sort of cad.
  #119  
Old 11-25-2013, 05:47 AM
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Elizabeth Gilberts' husband is a doofus who needs to grow up, man up, pick a life and a career and get a real job and so on. But as far as I can tell, he doesn't cheat on his wife, hit her, do drugs/alcohol, gamble the rent away, and appears to truly love and be in love with her.
Granted its been 3 years since the OP posted that, but here is the real guts LinkedIn profile. At the time of the divorce he was working for Human Rights Watch as a deputy director,
  #120  
Old 11-25-2013, 09:01 AM
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Granted its been 3 years since the OP posted that, but here is the real guts LinkedIn profile. At the time of the divorce he was working for Human Rights Watch as a deputy director,
Interesting. Why are there posts saying he needed to grow up and get a job? Sounds like he was more mature than the wife to me. Then the wife went and hooked up with some ugly dude who (possibly/likely) used her for a Green Card and her money, even though she doesn't believe in marriage. At least that's what I read in some articles that go into the aftermath.
  #121  
Old 11-25-2013, 05:02 PM
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Just reverse the roles. If it was a man who did all that- he'd be denounced as the biggest sort of cad.
That fucking Siddhartha Gautama! What an asshole!
  #122  
Old 11-25-2013, 06:16 PM
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That fucking Siddhartha Gautama! What an asshole!


What are you babbling about? What does the Buddha have to do with this?
  #123  
Old 11-25-2013, 06:24 PM
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What are you babbling about? What does the Buddha have to do with this?
Siddhartha left his wife and children to go on the spiritual quest that led to him becoming the Buddha....

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Early life and marriage
Departure of Prince Siddhartha
Siddhartha was born in a royal Hindu family.[38] He was brought up by his mother's younger sister, Maha Pajapati.[39] By tradition, he is said to have been destined by birth to the life of a prince, and had three palaces (for seasonal occupation) built for him. Although more recent scholarship doubts this status, his father, said to be King Śuddhodana, wishing for his son to be a great king, is said to have shielded him from religious teachings and from knowledge of human suffering.
When he reached the age of 16, his father reputedly arranged his marriage to a cousin of the same age named Yaśodharā (Pāli: Yasodharā). According to the traditional account,[which?] she gave birth to a son, named Rāhula. Siddhartha is said to have spent 29 years as a prince in Kapilavastu. Although his father ensured that Siddhartha was provided with everything he could want or need, Buddhist scriptures say that the future Buddha felt that material wealth was not life's ultimate goal.
Now, whether Gilbert's quest is comparable is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...

Last edited by WordMan; 11-25-2013 at 06:27 PM.
  #124  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:05 PM
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So now we're down to figuring out what sort of quest makes it OK.

Because the vast majority of us (men and women) can't just take off on a world-girdling vision quest when we realize we're at a dead end in our current relationship and get paid for it, but at best we move into a different house and go on antidepressants while still reporting to work the next morning, we become divided in our reaction to her way to deal with it. Visionary learning to get the most out of life, or entitled bint showing off that she can up and leave when she wants?
  #125  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:09 PM
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Siddhartha left his wife and children to go on the spiritual quest that led to him becoming the Buddha....



Now, whether Gilbert's quest is comparable is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...

It has no comparison at all- the Buddha did not eat and fuck his way across several continents, spending money like a drunk sailor. And then bragging about it.
  #126  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:45 PM
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It has no comparison at all- the Buddha did not eat and fuck his way across several continents, spending money like a drunk sailor. And then bragging about it.
How'd he get so fat then?
  #127  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:54 PM
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It has no comparison at all- the Buddha did not eat and fuck his way across several continents, spending money like a drunk sailor. And then bragging about it.
That's really only a significant difference if you think eat and fucking is a less worthy goal than sitting under a bodhi tree staring at your navel.
  #128  
Old 11-25-2013, 07:55 PM
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How'd he get so fat then?
Different buddha.
  #129  
Old 11-25-2013, 10:07 PM
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I recognize this is an ancient zombie, but goodness.

I guess the moral of the thread is that if you break up with your husband, it's best to spend your days watching Lifetime TV, eating at Olive Garden and collecting cats (rather than adventuring, writing books that make you rich, and banging hotties), less upset someone by having a more interesting life than they do.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:03 AM
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I recognize this is an ancient zombie, but goodness.

I guess the moral of the thread is that if you break up with your husband, it's best to spend your days watching Lifetime TV, eating at Olive Garden and collecting cats (rather than adventuring, writing books that make you rich, and banging hotties), less upset someone by having a more interesting life than they do.
I don't remember anyone citing that as a reason they disliked the book or movie.
  #131  
Old 11-26-2013, 07:44 AM
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I don't remember anyone citing that as a reason they disliked the book or movie.
You don't? I don't even have to "remember" back to the first time this thread was alive to find plenty of examples:

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It has no comparison at all- the Buddha did not eat and fuck his way across several continents, spending money like a drunk sailor. And then bragging about it.
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Originally Posted by Nom_de_Plume View Post
Dumping her loving husband without a second thought about his feelings is cuntbaggery. Telling herself that leaving this (apparently faithful and devoted) husband to fly around the world fucking other men is some sort of spiritual journey or feminist ideal is even worse.
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Hopefully her new husband bails out on her in favour of Pasta and fornication with other women. Then she can put all that knowledge of karma which she learnt in her ashram to good use.

Cunt
If you can't see the hatred for her daring to travel and learn - and it's a distinct and different hatred from the hatred for her leaving her man - then I'm not sure what thread you're reading.
  #132  
Old 11-26-2013, 09:39 AM
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You don't? I don't even have to "remember" back to the first time this thread was alive to find plenty of examples:






If you can't see the hatred for her daring to travel and learn - and it's a distinct and different hatred from the hatred for her leaving her man - then I'm not sure what thread you're reading.
Daring to "travel and learn"? no, we said "eat and fuck". Note no one castigated her for learning.

Just reverse the roles; man leaves good faithful wife as she want kids and he doesn't, using his first chance to do so , having landed a fat cash advance, which he Doesn't
share with wife. Immediately starts having sex with young hotties and stuffing his face like a bad falstaff imitator.
  #133  
Old 11-26-2013, 09:51 AM
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Pardon my short attention span... What did she "learn"?

How to forgive herself?
  #134  
Old 11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
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Interesting. Why are there posts saying he needed to grow up and get a job? Sounds like he was more mature than the wife to me. Then the wife went and hooked up with some ugly dude who (possibly/likely) used her for a Green Card and her money, even though she doesn't believe in marriage. At least that's what I read in some articles that go into the aftermath.
He is portrayed that way in the film and the book, IIRC. Been ages since I saw/read and no desire to. I don't think his profession was mentioned, I could be wrong.

But the portrayal seems to have led to the impressions as illustrated by the OP, evensven and WhyNot.
  #135  
Old 11-26-2013, 01:33 PM
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Daring to "travel and learn"? no, we said "eat and fuck". Note no one castigated her for learning.

Just reverse the roles; man leaves good faithful wife as she want kids and he doesn't, using his first chance to do so , having landed a fat cash advance, which he Doesn't
share with wife. Immediately starts having sex with young hotties and stuffing his face like a bad falstaff imitator.
Yeah, how dare she ... eat. I mean, what kind of an awful wretch could show how morally bankrupt they are by ... eating. Plus, PLUS, what kind of loose morals would you need to have sex with another adult after your divorce?

Okay, I'll play. A man realizes that he doesn't want to have kids but knows that his wife does. He thought his feelings might change after getting married, but they haven't. He knows that having kids is of central importance to his wife and he is swamped with guilt at the idea of denying this to her, but swamped with horror at the idea of spending the rest of his life going through the motions.

He leaves his wife and there is a horrible time for everyone as they move through the wreckage of the divorce. After losing nearly everything he had, he is able to get an advance which will finance a year of a spiritual and physical journey in which he heals himself and works on figuring himself out, after which he will write about it. He does not share the advance with his ex-wife, as they are no longer married.

Over the course of that year, he rebuilds himself up from the low point of black depression he had been in. After leaving his wife but before the divorce was finalized, he got deeply involved with a woman. The relationship is passionate but stormy and he decides to step away from it and in fact from all romantic relationships for the duration of this year so that he can learn who he is when he is not part of a couple. This resolution holds until the last third of the year, when he meets someone who is really into him and convinces him to take a chance on her.

Yeah, whatta jerk, huh?

Please note that I have read the book but not seen the movie. Perhaps the movie presented the character of Elizabeth Gilbert in a very different way than she comes across in her writing; I don't know. But I do know that I find it disquieting that so many people in this thread seem to be so very vitriolic about her. As I greatly doubt that she kicked all y'all's puppies, it makes me wonder about the nerve that she's struck here.
  #136  
Old 11-26-2013, 01:45 PM
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The problem is not that she ended her marriage to eat, drink and love. It's because she dumped her husband. According to the movie she just woke up one day to a voice in her head, turned her back on a loving husband and went on an international eating, banging and praying binge. It was a selfish, careless move that she sees as a spiritual journey. I did not see it that way and agree with the OP's assessment of her character. (I did not read the book nor do I know the author. This is based on what little of the movie I saw before I had to take a shower.)
  #137  
Old 11-26-2013, 01:56 PM
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But I do know that I find it disquieting that so many people in this thread seem to be so very vitriolic about her. As I greatly doubt that she kicked all y'all's puppies, it makes me wonder about the nerve that she's struck here.
I think people have been pretty clear about what bothers them with this movie and with the book. People respond poorly to selfish, callous manipulators who justify their behavior by attempting to appeal to others’ sympathy for their suffering.

Your little depiction of the year of hard times post-divorce was expressly and explicitly not shown in the movie, and apparently was not clear to everyone who read the book. Instead, she was depicted as capricious, aloof and uncaring. Normal people wanted to see some evidence that this decision was not made lightly and was associated with some sense of remorse or self-reflection. Instead, the protagonist fairly abruptly decides that she no longer wants to be married to a guy for no particularly clear reason. Without much sensitivity to the hurt she is causing, she pulls the plug on the relationship and very quickly enters another. Subsequently she goes on a “journey” that seems, to normal people, nothing more than the indulgence of various appetites – food, sex, excitement. I could see little learning or change in the character shown in the film.

People have a negative reaction to the celebration of base, antisocial and hurtful behavior when there is no sense of learning, change or at least come-uppance for the person who engaged in them.

That’s what people have said here, and that’s the piece you seem to be missing.

For my money, there are certainly lots of people who are hard on themselves, who are too critical of themselves, and who tend to carry too much regret. These are almost NEVER the same people who say things like “I need to learn to forgive myself,” or “I need to learn to love myself.” Instead, these kind of things are said by people who have done nothing but think about themselves and engage in self-serving indulgence of their appetites and desires. These folks have simply learned how to evoke sympathy from others by claiming hardship. These statements are big red flags to steer clear of a manipulative, self-involved jerk who is not ready to take any accountability for his or her shit.
  #138  
Old 11-26-2013, 02:22 PM
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Plus her claims are not really in consonance with her actions. I find it unlikely that she began fucking that dude only after she ended things. If we are to believe her she just one day upped and left. Yeah. And Fido went to a nice farm in the country. Her claims about the divorce, the settlement, she apparently decided to give him everything out of the goodness of her heart?
  #139  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:43 PM
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Daring to "travel and learn"? no, we said "eat and fuck". Note no one castigated her for learning.

Just reverse the roles; man leaves good faithful wife as she want kids and he doesn't, using his first chance to do so , having landed a fat cash advance, which he Doesn't
share with wife. Immediately starts having sex with young hotties and stuffing his face like a bad falstaff imitator.
Ok, let's reverse the roles. Let's go on about how selfish the guy is and what a prick he is for doing what he did. What an asshole, right?

Great. Does that feel better? Does it feel like everything is right and just now?

Or do you kind of feel like the guy probably should get some benefit if the doubt? Perhaps even glad that he found a positive situation after a painful breakup? And maybe a tiny bit envious of his freedom?

In other words, do you actually
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:18 PM
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Got cut off

In other words, do you actually think she did something wrong, or are you just looking for a reason to whine?
  #141  
Old 11-26-2013, 04:29 PM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
Got cut off

In other words, do you actually think she did something wrong, or are you just looking for a reason to whine?
She appears to be an awful person. At least, as depicted, she does hurtful things without remorse or reflection. Plus, woo.
  #142  
Old 11-26-2013, 04:36 PM
DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
She appears to be an awful person. At least, as depicted, she does hurtful things without remorse or reflection. Plus, woo.


Worse, she did awful things then bragged about them and became Rich and famous doing so. She profited by being a horrible person.
  #143  
Old 11-26-2013, 04:42 PM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
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Worse, she did awful things then bragged about them and became Rich and famous doing so. She profited by being a horrible person.
Excellent point. In reality, the story is banal. There are lots of selfish assholes out there who are indifferent to the pain they cause others. Celebrating it as a journey of self-discovery is a big part of the problem. From my perspective, the discovery that should happen is "Wow, I was a callous piece of shit. I should make amends."
  #144  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:07 PM
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I haven't read the book or seen the movie, but I did read this incredibly hilarious review of the movie. If that one clip is indicative of the tone of the movie . . . wow.
  #145  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:16 PM
even sven is offline
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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
She appears to be an awful person. At least, as depicted, she does hurtful things without remorse or reflection. Plus, woo.
How much reflection do you want? You think she should write a freaking novel about it? Oh, wait.

I still don't see what is "awful" about ending a loveless marriage with a massive irreconcilable difference. What else should she do? Drag it out for a few more years until everyone is miserable? Suck it up and live a lie? Sulk around miserably until he decides to end it? I suppose some marriage counseling would be a nice gesture, but once you hit "he wants kids and I just don't," there just isn't much to do.
  #146  
Old 11-26-2013, 06:17 PM
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Eat Pray Love actually follows a pretty standard rom-com plot by reversing the genders...

The story begins with the man dissatisfied with the state of the marriage. His occupation will be shown as all-consuming and will take the form of something frivolous (a writer, say) or more evil (lawyer, corporate executive, etc). He leaves his once-upon-a-time true love and begins to shack up with a vacuous slut. A joke will likely be made about the poor girl's IQ in relation to her bra size. If it's a movie with a crass streak, a joke will also be made about the man's small stature in the Mr. Winky department and/or his performance using said instrument.

At this point in the story, the man exits, never to be seen again.

The woman then goes on a spiritual quest to find herself again after losing the man she thought of as her true partner. She will bond with old friends. She will try new things. She will meet new people. She will eventually meet a man who provides her with the love and caring that her first husband now never did. Even if the beginning of the story shows the woman as content, by the end the husband will have been revealed to have always been a monster.

Wedding bells. A REAL kiss is shared. Roll credits.

------------------------------------------------

Eat Pray Love is infuriating because it casts the woman in the male role without changing anything else. The woman uses her frivolous job as an excuse to shack up with a pretty young thing, dumping the husband she thought of as her partner. Eventually it comes out that the husband is a slob and an unemployed loser who needs to grow up and he was never actually her partner at all.

At this point in the story, instead of following the man on a spiritual journey to better himself in the face of this betrayal, we still follow the woman. The husband is never seen again except to be dumped on by the woman, who travels the world experiencing wine, women, and song.

In the end, wedding bells (because The Government made her), roll credits.

------------------------------------------------

Even more angering is the real events Gilbert excised from her book. Her husband wasn't an unemployed layabout, he was a Human Rights lawyer. When a publisher asked him to write the "He Said" half of their "She Said, He Said" tale, he declined because he didn't feel it was right to air their dirty laundry in public. And instead of embracing a mid-life crisis with some college-age chickadee, he traveled the world helping victims of genocide and terrorism. Oh, and then he got married and started the family he always wanted.

------------------------------------------------

If anything, the men in this thread who have been castigating Gilbert have been going too easy on her.
  #147  
Old 11-26-2013, 06:17 PM
Grumman is offline
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Originally Posted by even sven View Post
How much reflection do you want? You think she should write a freaking novel about it? Oh, wait.

I still don't see what is "awful" about ending a loveless marriage with a massive irreconcilable difference. What else should she do? Drag it out for a few more years until everyone is miserable? Suck it up and live a lie? Sulk around miserably until he decides to end it? I suppose some marriage counseling would be a nice gesture, but once you hit "he wants kids and I just don't," there just isn't much to do.
Here's a couple for starters:

- Not go around insinuating that it's his fault.
- Not talk some poor Indian woman into a worse marriage situation than the one that wasn't good enough for you, and then not even have the decency to give her a marriage gift.
  #148  
Old 11-26-2013, 07:25 PM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
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How much reflection do you want? You think she should write a freaking novel about it? Oh, wait.
How about any? Any self-reflection at all? The movie shows none. And writing a book about it would be worthwhile if it was self-reflective, not self-justifying or self-indulgent.
Quote:
I still don't see what is "awful" about ending a loveless marriage with a massive irreconcilable difference.
For one, it wasn't loveless. First, she "fell out of" love, and he still loved her. Secondly, the "massive" irreconcilable difference, by which I am assuming you mean that he wanted to have children, seems largely like post-hoc bullshit justification. Did she fall out of love or not? Did she fall out of love because he wanted children? Did she discuss with him this desire and work to come to some understanding from him whether the relationship with her was more important than his desire for children? He might be more like a normal person, who is able to decide between indulging personal desires or balancing and negotiating among various desires. Perhaps he would have readily chosen their relationship.
Quote:
What else should she do? Drag it out for a few more years until everyone is miserable? Suck it up and live a lie? Sulk around miserably until he decides to end it? I suppose some marriage counseling would be a nice gesture, but once you hit "he wants kids and I just don't," there just isn't much to do.
Again, not everyone demands that things go exactly their way. But in fact, if she really did not love him, I don't actually have any problems with her leaving the relationship. She should not stay if she does not love the guy. However, she ought not to justify it for other reasons (e.g. children, he needs to grow up), she ought to recognize that she is causing him pain and to feel bad about that fact, and it isn't something to celebrate. The fact that she can go and fuck other people and eat food in vacation spots is not remarkable or noteworthy. It's not a transformative journey if she doesn't transform into something.

Last edited by Hentor the Barbarian; 11-26-2013 at 07:27 PM.
  #149  
Old 11-26-2013, 07:29 PM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
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If anything, the men in this thread who have been castigating Gilbert have been going too easy on her.
It isn't all men. Many women found the movie to be embarrassingly celebratory of callous selfishness. My wife couldn't make it through the movie either.
  #150  
Old 11-26-2013, 08:08 PM
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It isn't all men. Many women found the movie to be embarrassingly celebratory of callous selfishness. My wife couldn't make it through the movie either.
I had a hard time.

She would have been more empathetic if she had started the memoir AFTER her divorce. "Here I am, having screwed up one marriage, in a relationship with a boy toy actor and feeling like I don't know who I am or what I want. I will travel around the world on a journey of self indulgent reflection and navel gazing."

Under the Tuscan Sun is the same story, where you don't feel like the Diane Lane character was a self indulgent bitch.

I remember seeing the part where her friends send her money instead of birthday gifts and thinking "she has friends?"
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