Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:13 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115

Teach me to appreciate Metal?


I have recently come to realize that I know next to nothing about Metal. This strikes me as a pretty large hole in my understanding of modern popular music and I would like to fix it. I'm really bored with the music I have been listening to as of late so I figure now is a good time to explore the world of Heavy Metal and all its various subgenres (there are like 85 right?)

Now, I do know some stuff. The early Heavy Metal that is essentially classic rock I know. Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Motorhead, Led Zeppelin, etc. I am also passingly familiar with Metallica because I'm alive in the world. I also know a little NuMetal because I was in high school in the late 90s. Mahaloth recommended in another thread that I listened to Roots by Sepultura and it has really grown on me.

But that's pretty much it.

Give me suggestions and possibly an order I should listen to them in (if necessary) and I will listen to whatever I am able to stream on Spotify or YouTube and report back. I'm down to try anything.

Sounds fun?

Last edited by NAF1138; 08-03-2018 at 06:14 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:30 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,625
If you hear it and you don't like it, there's no fix for that. You've already named a bunch of bands to try. Add Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions when they still had Uli Roth and you've got the majority of the beginning. Add Hawkwind and Motorhead if you'd like. That's the old school stuff.
Where's Snowboarder Bo?

ETA: Sorry, you already mentioned Motorhead. It's not really metal, but was there with really heavy rock when metal was forming.

Last edited by bobot; 08-03-2018 at 06:32 PM.
  #3  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:34 PM
Mahaloth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 30,670
Sure, and I'll throw some at you right away since you have offered me a lot in my musical learning experience.

1. Metallica - Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, their Black Album(self-titled).

If you have to do just one of those, do Ride the Lightning.

2. Slayer - Reign in Blood

I'm not a huge fan of this album, but it is huge and a necessary album in Metal's history. It's really short, too. It is massively heavy.

3. Sepultura - Roots

My favorite metal album and I know you've heard the lead single from it already. The whole album is great, but Roots Bloody Roots and Dusted are all-time great metal songs.

4. Megadeth - Peace Sells....but Who's Buying?

Another one I am not personally a fan of, but it is huge and important in history. I don't like Dave Mustaine's voice is the main issue for me.

5. Pantera - Vulgar Dispay of Power

Another mega-classic.


Are you interested in Death Metal? I did not recommend any from that genre.
  #4  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:35 PM
Mahaloth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 30,670
I see you mentioned Roots as one you heard already. Good, it's great.
  #5  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:36 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,625
Here is Hawkwind playing Born To Go when heavy acid rock and very long songs were slipping into this new thing called metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfRIePduqQ
  #6  
Old 08-03-2018, 07:05 PM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,163
The Sword, Warp Riders is on the borders between hard rock and metal, it's pretty accessible, and a completely terrific album throughout, with a strong 70s vibe. If you're looking for 80s stuff, I'm a big fan of Dio, too: anything off Holy Diver is a great place to start. And this recent thread has some great recommendations for more recent stuff: me, I always plug Mastodon and Baroness.
  #7  
Old 08-03-2018, 08:16 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Where's Snowboarder Bo?


There's lots of decent suggestions in this thread and in the other for stuff to listen to, so I'll avoid that for the most part and instead address the thread title and try and offer suggestions on how to appreciate Metal.

First, knowing the history is a good idea. There's a ton of great music to be heard and it'll help with being able to understand and appreciate later incarnations of metal. NAF, it sounds like you have a good grasp on the foundations, so you're not starting this from scratch; that's cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
ETA: Sorry, you already mentioned Motorhead. It's not really metal, but was there with really heavy rock when metal was forming.
Whoa whoa WHOA! Lemmy is one of us; no matter if he favored playing speed rock over heavy metal. Speed rock + being punk as fuck = metal, because lots of equations total out as metal; you'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
If you hear it and you don't like it, there's no fix for that.
No; there isn't and that's fine (I know you know, bobot; that was directed at everyone else ). Metal is a big world and there's plenty of room for everyone. People may think your taste is crazy, but whatever, ya know what I'm sayin'?

Anyway, NAF, since you have a grasp on the origins and early influences, I'd suggest starting your journey by watching Metal: A Headbangers Journey. It's fun, has a lot of great music and will introduce you to not just the bands, but the people in some of these bands. There will be names and faces that you'll encounter later as you listen to metal, so you'll be a little more interested and knowledgable when you hear a song. "Oh, Mayhem, yeah they were in that movie and they interviewed the guys. I remember it was at Wakken;" etc. It's prolly the single best overview of metal that's been made, even tho it's now over a decade old. Heck, that might be an advantage since the time period it has to cover is shorter than if it were made today.

Sam is semi-involved in Banger TV, a heavy metal channel on YouTube. I'd recommend going there for reviews of newer albums, but they also do features where they look back at other years, like 1987 or 1993 or whatever and review albums from that time. That can be cool, like when someone is reviewing a record that I listened to in college, but they weren't even born yet when it was released and popular. They cover a lot of genres and for every major release they review, they do 2 or 3 nano-reviews of more underground stuff. I highly recommend people subscribe to this and/or join their Patreon (still not sure how I feel about Patreon, tbh); they do good work.

So for new music, I recommend a few things (this is how I do):

1. YouTube. Search for a band who's name you know, but you haven't heard their music. See what the most popular, most recently uploaded (or made) video is and listen to that song. If you like it, go back to the search page and listen to more. If you like the genre but not that song or that band, see what's in the sidebar or search for a new band name.

2. Bandcamp discover. This is pretty much my go-to place to find new bands now. I'll listen to "New Arrivals" in any and every metal genre until I find something I like. Some days I spend hours here (and spend serious dollars, too).

3. Record label websites. I just ordered $140 worth of stuff from a German record company called Rotten Roll Rex. 8 or 9 bands, like 11 or 12 CDs. Only one of those bands was known before I went to the label website to order their albums. But every album page had a link to a YouTube video, often for the full album. I could listen to everything they produce for free before purchasing. Relapse, Century Media, Thrill Jockey, Southern Lord, etc. all have huge websites with videos embedded all over the place.

And speaking of that recent order, the way I knew about the first band I went there for? I saw them while watching festival videos (for Obscene Extreme Festival) on YouTube. Many festivals put up nearly the entire festival on YouTube nowadays, so it can be a great way to check out a band live.

For more examples, we've averaged a little over one "recommend me some metal" threads per year for the past 6 or 7 years, including the one that Penfeather linked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
so I figure now is a good time to explore the world of Heavy Metal and all its various subgenres (there are like 85 right?)
Metal is by far the most populated genre of music, IMO; the only other genre that comes close maybe is EDM.

I argue that most of what we think of as punk rock is really jazz, and the truth is that metal has accepted influence from so many other genres that a lot of it is also now influenced by jazz music. A great deal of that has to do with the technical proficiency of the average metal musician today, but overall, headbangers are used to and often embrace jarring tempo, key, and stylistic changes within a song (there's even a genre that kind of specializes in exactly that, in fact). So when you find a song you like, narrowing that down to a set of stylistic influences (a genre) can really help you find other similar artists, some of whom may be operating in genres with limited popularity (and thus a harder time finding exposure for listeners); that's why there are so many genres and why it's important to metalheads.

Keep posting in this thread, NAF, and I guarantee that myself and others will keep coming in and posting too. I hope what I offered here helps you (and anyone else) get a good foundation for appreciating metal and helps set you off on your own Headbanger's Journey.

I'll close with one link to a song; a song that y'all may not like or may not be able to like right now, but it's one of my favorites from this year, and a fine example of the length and breadth of what I can still consider "metal": Clown Core - Hell.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-03-2018 at 08:20 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:02 PM
Gray Ghost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,627
I think someone here directed me to this resource, The Map of Metal http://mapofmetal.com/ , and I found it very educational.

Hopefully this will help provide a framework for the different genres within metal music.
  #9  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:14 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
Sure, and I'll throw some at you right away since you have offered me a lot in my musical learning experience.
Thanks! Your thread is what gave me the idea. I am a music nerd but was into hardcore punk at the age when most people descover metal and, because I wasn't supposed to like Metal because I was punk, it just sort of missed me.

Quote:
Are you interested in Death Metal? I did not recommend any from that genre.
Sure. Death, Black, other. I want to get an idea of what it's all about even if I don't end up digging it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
If you hear it and you don't like it, there's no fix for that. You've already named a bunch of bands to try. Add Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions when they still had Uli Roth and you've got the majority of the beginning. Add Hawkwind and Motorhead if you'd like. That's the old school stuff.
Where's Snowboarder Bo?

.
Anyplace in particular you recommend starting with Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or the Scorpions? I saw Judas Priest had a new album that got pretty good reviews. I was thinking of checking it out anyway. It that actually a good place to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
:snip long and useful post:

I'll close with one link to a song; a song that y'all may not like or may not be able to like right now, but it's one of my favorites from this year, and a fine example of the length and breadth of what I can still consider "metal": Clown Core - Hell.
I do like weird. Thanks for that whole post. I will report back. I am also interested in your theory that everything is actually Jazz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
I think someone here directed me to this resource, The Map of Metal http://mapofmetal.com/ , and I found it very educational.

Hopefully this will help provide a framework for the different genres within metal music.
Huh, that is interesting. Thanks!

Also Penfeather I missed hitting your post on the multi quote, but I have added Holy Diver to my list. As far as Mastodon and Baroness anything in particular I should check out first?

Thanks to everyone and a blanket thank you to anyone who participates in the future.
  #10  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:24 PM
Mahaloth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 30,670
Death Metal is not my genre, but I can recommend a couple albums for you to hear:

1. Cannibal Corpse - The Bleeding

I think this is their top rated album by most people. It's got Staring Through The Eyes of the Dead, their most famous song.

2. Napalm Death - Fear, Emptiness, and Despair

A classic death metal band and a big album from them.

3. Deicide - Legion

I can't listen to Deicide without giggling. A band that claims to be actually Satanic, but the whole thing makes me laugh. Still, this was a big album from them.

Someone else can recommend Entombed and a few other historic Death Metal bands. I really think the genre rarely does anything great. Some would list Sepultura as Death Metal, but I don't think so.
  #11  
Old 08-04-2018, 12:42 AM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
Death Metal is not my genre, but I can recommend a couple albums for you to hear:

1. Cannibal Corpse - The Bleeding

I think this is their top rated album by most people. It's got Staring Through The Eyes of the Dead, their most famous song.
This is the best of CC 1.0, their last album with Chris Barnes. It's not their best, tho, IMO, largely because George "Corpsegrinder" Fisher is a better vocalist for the band. The band also has gotten better with age, IMO, so there's that. Myself, I actually prefer their newer material most of the time, like Kill and Torture. Last year's Red Before Black was also outstanding, IMO. I'd stay away from CC at the start tho; their extreme takes on vocals, song structure, lyrics, etc. can put people off if they don't have the background to understand what they're hearing; this is true for a lot of death metal and other extreme metal variants. I highly recommend educating oneself up to things in metal rather than trying to jump right in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
2. Napalm Death - Fear, Emptiness, and Despair

A classic death metal band and a big album from them.
An excellent album, and prolly the most accessible of their early output. Still, I'd avoid this for awhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
3. Deicide - Legion

I can't listen to Deicide without giggling. A band that claims to be actually Satanic, but the whole thing makes me laugh. Still, this was a big album from them.
I don't even bother with Deicide. They suck. Shitty songwriting, no sense of rhythm or dynamics and shitty music. I don't care that you can play those three notes really fast over and over; play an actual fucking riff ffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
Someone else can recommend Entombed and a few other historic Death Metal bands. I really think the genre rarely does anything great. Some would list Sepultura as Death Metal, but I don't think so.
Death metal is awesome and often does great things, IMO, but death metal isn't where you want to start. DM is like the awesome filling in the middle of the donut that eventually spreads out and covers everything in a sticky, black goo from which there is no returning, but you don't wanna go there until you figure out how to digest things first.

Besides, it's easy enough to do this the same way we did when it actually happened: listen to NWOBHM, get familiar with the underground acts coming up in the UK at the time that were moving things to a new place (Motörhead, King Diamond, Venom (especially Venom)), move into thrash because that was the American response/continuation to what was happening in the UK, and from there move into death metal, early grindcore, industrial metal, etc.

That's one reason I suggested that movie; it pretty much goes thru things in chronological order, even laying out charts to show the evolution (that map was created because of the chart in M:AHJ, in part).

Here's another link, this time to something a bit more accessible than the previous one. Metalcore is a combo of metal and hardcore punk. Pretty much no or very short solos, shouted vocals, lots of gang choruses. It's very heavy on moshable parts musically and lyrics tend to be positive and self-reliant, although still, like the music, very aggressive. This band was one of the pioneers and is still one of the best examples of the genre; here's Hatebreed - Destroy Everything.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-04-2018 at 12:43 AM.
  #12  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:02 AM
Gatopescado is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 23,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Where's Snowboarder Bo?
Safe money in on The Quarry.
  #13  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:09 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,855
You better appreciate metal, lest you end up like this guy.
  #14  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:13 AM
Gatopescado is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 23,310
"is"

Last edited by Gatopescado; 08-04-2018 at 01:13 AM. Reason: Where is fuckin' Bill Clinton when you need him?
  #15  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:26 AM
Drunky Smurf's Avatar
Drunky Smurf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Smurf Village.
Posts: 11,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
5. Pantera - Vulgar Dispay of Power
Pantera "Cowboys from Hell". Groove Metal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Pure poetry. Beautiful.
  #16  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:28 AM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post






Also Penfeather I missed hitting your post on the multi quote, but I have added Holy Diver to my list. As far as Mastodon and Baroness anything in particular I should check out first?
With Mastodon I'm fond of their Once More Round the Sun album, and with Baroness I love Yellow & Green. And you asked about Judas Priest and Iron Maiden: with Priest I'd start with the classic British Steel or Screaming For Vengeance, and with Iron Maiden probably Killers. And if your tastes started with punk and hardcore, you can't go far wrong with Motorhead, who never quite fit the classic metal mould of long solos and overwrought musicianship, but were more into just making a really loud fast nasty fucking noise, and had a lot of crossover appeal with punk: Bomber, Overkill and Ace of Spades are all from the classic lineup.
  #17  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:42 AM
Drunky Smurf's Avatar
Drunky Smurf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Smurf Village.
Posts: 11,203
Fun Metal.

Andrew W. K. "She is Beautiful"

Andrew W. K. "Party Hard"

Andrew W. K. "Ready to Die"

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 08-04-2018 at 01:47 AM.
  #18  
Old 08-04-2018, 03:14 AM
Drunky Smurf's Avatar
Drunky Smurf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Smurf Village.
Posts: 11,203
Horror Punk/Metal: The Misfits. (God Bless Them.)

Misfits "Them"

Misfits "Last Caress"

Misfits "I Turned Into a Martian"

Misfits "An American Psycho"
  #19  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:57 AM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Isn't there a youtube channel with two hip hop guys checking out metal? Pretty neat actually.

I've liked metal from before I was released into the wild, so I don't really know how to teach someone to appreciate it. It's been with me from the uterus. But my main takeaway from that channel was that they started appreciating things in metal they appreciate in other genres. Being hip hop musicians, they immediately grabbed on to the beats and rythm. Maybe that would help.

If you're a hardcore guy, early death or black metal might actually appeal to you. Fun fact, most early Norwegian black metal musicians were hardcore punkers. Anyway, Deathcrush by Mayhem is an obligatory listen. Intro by Conrad Schnitzler! Grindcore is also an offshoot of hardcore and crust, so you should check it out at some point.

I'll throw in some stuff:

High On Fire - Devilution

Red Harvest - AEP


Finntroll - Trollhammaren


Khold - Åtselgraver

Satyricon - To The Mountains


Windir - 1184


Btw Mahaloth, I'd argue Sepultura's output before Roots and maybe Chaos A.D. can be considered death metal. Arise and Beneath The Remains is definitely not nu metal!
  #20  
Old 08-04-2018, 11:43 AM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumpudding View Post


If you're a hardcore guy, early death or black metal might actually appeal to you. Fun fact, most early Norwegian black metal musicians were hardcore punkers. Anyway, Deathcrush by Mayhem is an obligatory listen. Intro by Conrad Schnitzler! Grindcore is also an offshoot of hardcore and crust, so you should check it out at some point.
I am listening to some of the stuff you linked below this right now, and...yeah I get it. It has a very hardcore sensibility in a lot of ways. But I listened to Mayhem earlier and, I'm less sure about that. I'll come back to it. I mostly wanted to post this to say, I looked them up while I was listening are those stories real or is that made up lore? The band sounds like it was actually insane, not just playing at insane.
__________________
Hey, signatures seem to be on by default now.
  #21  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:21 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
It's actually quite complicated, and I might get some details wrong here, but here's a short version off the top of my head:

The band started out not just wanting to make extreme music, but projecting an extreme image. Then things kinda went out of whack and the vocalist, Death, killed himself. Euronymous, the guitarst and main figure, took photos of the scene and made it into a cover, then sent out pieces of Death's skull to friends and acquaintances. The other members, especially Necrobutcher (I'm not sure, but I think he might be the only original member left), were pretty horrified by this, but nonetheless continued in the band. At some point Varg Vikernes joined the band, with some pretty crazy ideas about music and life in general. He and Euronymous played off each other and created the nucleus of the first wave black metal scene in Norway. This milieu was introvert, exclusive and very unhealthy and basically imploded after Varg stabbed Euronymous to death, ushering in the second wave of Norwegian black metal, characterized by a much more satirical, over-the-top approach to the genre.

Edit: There were also many different scenes all around in Norway, both competing and collaborating with each other. I think the main one were in Oslo, and the runner-up somewhere on the west coast. Probably Stavanger or Bergen.

Those church burnings you always hear about in connection with Norwegian black metal were mostly mentally unstable fans wanting to impress the core figures in the scene. Not to downplay the craziness of some of the main musicians at the time: Varg and Euronymous for example, were planning to blow up the Nidaros dome, Norways most famous church and the first one made in stone (I think). One guy has been convicted of torture and violent assault not once, but several times. And so on and so on.

But I want to stress that while some were and still are crazy assholes, not everyone involved were. Hope that helps.

Last edited by Plumpudding; 08-04-2018 at 01:23 PM.
  #22  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:32 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Also: Only one of the bands I linked can really be considered as first-wave, Mayhem. Another great band from that time is Darkthrone.
  #23  
Old 08-04-2018, 01:41 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Ok, so Mayhem = probably actually insane for the most part*, everyone else = not so much except for some fans but that can't really be helped.

More or less?


*so the thing about the skull necklace and stuff after the lead singer killed himself is not made up. That's disturbing in a way that surprises me.


I'm digging the other stuff you linked. High on Fire in particular really caught my ear, but that might be because it was the first one I listened to after Mayhem which, like I said, I'll come back to.
__________________
Hey, signatures seem to be on by default now.

Last edited by NAF1138; 08-04-2018 at 01:43 PM.
  #24  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:30 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
Ok, so Mayhem = probably actually insane for the most part*, everyone else = not so much except for some fans but that can't really be helped.

More or less?


*so the thing about the skull necklace and stuff after the lead singer killed himself is not made up. That's disturbing in a way that surprises me.


I'm digging the other stuff you linked. High on Fire in particular really caught my ear, but that might be because it was the first one I listened to after Mayhem which, like I said, I'll come back to.
No!

Varg Vikernes = Crazy, dangerous, violent and a neo-nazi to boot. Was convicted for murder and spent 15 years in prison.
Euronymous = Crazy, did some fucked up stuff and was instrumental in creating a pretty scary environment.
Death = Had mental issues and was a death-fetishist, which prompted him to kill himself. I don't think he did anyone else any harm, apart from that.

Mayhem has had A LOT of member over the years... It is kinda unfair to call the band crazy for the actions of a few crazy members. Necrobutcher for example, is not a crazy guy. He's a pretty normal dude who loves to play extreme metal.

Then you have various other crazy people in various bands. One guy in Emperor promoted arson. The vocalist in Gorgoroth (a bit later I think) was convicted for torture and violent assault.
Then you have the church-burners, who were for the most part fans unaffiliated with bands, at least well known ones, as far as I know. Their motivation was for the most part to impress the inner circle in the scene to gain admission, which they didn't.

The rest are relatively normal people, as far as I know!
  #25  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:31 PM
Channing Idaho Banks's Avatar
Channing Idaho Banks is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: beautiful Idaho
Posts: 2,672
Mercyful Fate: Melissa and also Don't Breat the Oath. These are two of the greatest metal albums.
  #26  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:36 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Glad you like High On Fire! Great band, really good live.

*Yeah, the skull stuff is true. I actually think the album cover thing is even more disturbing. Using the suicide of a supposed friend only for trying to achieve controversy and notoriety... Pretty chilling, to be honest.
  #27  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:41 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Sorry: The vocalist who killed himself, his artist name was Dead, not Death.

Napalm Death - You Suffer
  #28  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:24 PM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Last harp on Mayhem... If you feel you have an album's worth of undivided attention to spend, put this on: Mayhem - A Grand Declaration Of War. You might not like it, it's not an easy album, but IMO it's worth the time.
  #29  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:35 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumpudding View Post
Last harp on Mayhem... If you feel you have an album's worth of undivided attention to spend, put this on: Mayhem - A Grand Declaration Of War. You might not like it, it's not an easy album, but IMO it's worth the time.
You have me convinced that they are work my time. I will check them out. I am making a Spotify playlist that is sorta chronological to listen to while I drive around. Right now its 90% stuff from the 80s, but I figure that's to be expected.

I also watched the movie Snowboarded Bo suggested today. It's really interesting. More about the culture of Metal than the music itself, but it gives a nice history lesson too and focuses a lot on Black Metal. Probably more than any other genre which is interesting since it seems to be less popular as a whole than Death Metal, but that may just be my perception as an outsider. Mayhem was interviewed! It was pretty funny. They also talked to some of the church burners and, those guys really do seem serious, but the movie points out its more a Norwegian thing and less a Metal thing. The Metal part is mostly coincidence it seems.

Interesting stuff.
  #30  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 3,168
I've never been able to appreciate any death metal, speed metal, or black metal. It is not going to happen. Someone whose Platonic ideal of music is Brian Wilson, Harry Nilsson, and Jerry Garcia is just not going to dig that sound, it's not happening. That doesn't mean I think it's bad music. I defintely acknowledge that it takes extreme skill to pull it off. I admire guys who can shred with insanely intricate articulation and drummers who are capable of playing that hard-hitting style without dropping the beat - I do admire it. But I just don't dig it. Nobody's gonna "teach me" or teach you to appreciate music that you don't appreciate....you don't appreciate it because you don't appreciate it, full stop.
  #31  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:49 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,625
Plumpudding, can't quote you for some reason.

Lost In Vegas? Those guys are cool. Here is their introduction to Megadeth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh8wxc4tctE

Last edited by bobot; 08-04-2018 at 07:51 PM.
  #32  
Old 08-04-2018, 07:51 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
I've never been able to appreciate any death metal, speed metal, or black metal. It is not going to happen. Someone whose Platonic ideal of music is Brian Wilson, Harry Nilsson, and Jerry Garcia is just not going to dig that sound, it's not happening. That doesn't mean I think it's bad music. I defintely acknowledge that it takes extreme skill to pull it off. I admire guys who can shred with insanely intricate articulation and drummers who are capable of playing that hard-hitting style without dropping the beat - I do admire it. But I just don't dig it. Nobody's gonna "teach me" or teach you to appreciate music that you don't appreciate....you don't appreciate it because you don't appreciate it, full stop.
I think you and I are using different definitions of appreciate. I am wanting something akin to a music appreciation class experience (mostly self taught I don't really expect anyone in this thread to ACTUALLY teach me like I'm in a class).

For example. I do not like free jazz. But I appreciate what they are doing because I understand it. I am not putting on a free jazz album any time soon, but if I go to a Jazz club and a free jazz quintet comes on to do a set, or if I am listening to the Jazz station and Ornete Colman comes on I can listen to it and understand it, it isn't just noise. I may not like it, I may chose to change the channel, but I might not and I can have a meaningful conversation with someone about it if it comes up (and it does sometimes in the strangest situations.) Same deal with Opera. I can't get past the singing style. It just doesn't work for me. But I get it. I like the music even if the singing style doesn't work and I can follow an aria and understand what coloratura is and all that stuff. Again, it's not noise.

Right now if I flip to the metal station on my satellite radio it's just noise. I might as well be listening to radio static. I may never like it, but I feel like I want to understand it. And I might like it. I was listening to Motorhead earlier and, that's good stuff (though I guess not everyone thinks it's metal??) Sometimes it's just lack of familiarity.

Last edited by NAF1138; 08-04-2018 at 07:55 PM.
  #33  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:44 AM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
I think you and I are using different definitions of appreciate. I am wanting something akin to a music appreciation class experience (mostly self taught I don't really expect anyone in this thread to ACTUALLY teach me like I'm in a class).

For example. I do not like free jazz. But I appreciate what they are doing because I understand it. I am not putting on a free jazz album any time soon, but if I go to a Jazz club and a free jazz quintet comes on to do a set, or if I am listening to the Jazz station and Ornete Colman comes on I can listen to it and understand it, it isn't just noise. I may not like it, I may chose to change the channel, but I might not and I can have a meaningful conversation with someone about it if it comes up (and it does sometimes in the strangest situations.) Same deal with Opera. I can't get past the singing style. It just doesn't work for me. But I get it. I like the music even if the singing style doesn't work and I can follow an aria and understand what coloratura is and all that stuff. Again, it's not noise.

Right now if I flip to the metal station on my satellite radio it's just noise. I might as well be listening to radio static. I may never like it, but I feel like I want to understand it. And I might like it. I was listening to Motorhead earlier and, that's good stuff (though I guess not everyone thinks it's metal??) Sometimes it's just lack of familiarity.
First, I totally commend you on wanting to appreciate metal. I am a fan of music, more than I can describe accurately. I hear music all the time and I love the vast majority of it. And even the stuff I don't like, I've listened to shitloads of. If people are finding meaning and joy in it, and I'm not, I wanna know what they see/hear/etc. that I'm not.

And especially with music, it seems, educating your ear is a real thing. Becoming familiar with the rhythms, cadences and nuances of new types of music, for me, can eventually help me find songs within that genre that I do like by normalizing what was formerly unknown. And almost every form of music has something that I can latch onto to start: a good drum sound, a good beat in general, a killer noise that the guitar makes that it doesn't make in other music, etc. For instance, I'm not a fan of reggae, but I can appreciate a good reggae bass line as much as anyone, and I do find old dancehall and pre-Marley reggae to be vastly different and more enjoyable than most modern reggae. I've seen Peter Tosh, Eddie Grant, King Sunny Ade, every Marley other than Bob, etc. live. Why? Because millions of people love reggae, and I'm curious about what they hear that I don't (and why I don't). And yeah, there's a handful of reggae songs that I like. Delroy Wilson's Feel Good All Over (ETA: WARNING! HOT AUDIO! TURN DOWN FIRST!), for instance, gets turned up whenever it comes on; I freaking love that song.

In general, I hate reggae. But I did teach myself to appreciate it enough that I understand what people like and found that it can appeal to me, even if most of it does not.

So good on you for doing something I like to do too.

Oh, and it's not that lots of people don't think Motörhead is metal, it's that Lemmy himself said repeatedly that they were a rock band and they played rock and roll. He was adamant that they were not a metal band.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-05-2018 at 12:46 AM. Reason: fixed coding
  #34  
Old 08-05-2018, 07:38 AM
Plumpudding is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
I've never been able to appreciate any death metal, speed metal, or black metal. It is not going to happen. Someone whose Platonic ideal of music is Brian Wilson, Harry Nilsson, and Jerry Garcia is just not going to dig that sound, it's not happening. That doesn't mean I think it's bad music. I defintely acknowledge that it takes extreme skill to pull it off. I admire guys who can shred with insanely intricate articulation and drummers who are capable of playing that hard-hitting style without dropping the beat - I do admire it. But I just don't dig it. Nobody's gonna "teach me" or teach you to appreciate music that you don't appreciate....you don't appreciate it because you don't appreciate it, full stop.
I've been confronted with my own dislike for certain genres so many times I've realized there might just be something in any and every genre I'll like. It's just arrangements of sounds anyway. We all evolve our tastes whether we like it or not. Embracing that also has the potential of radically expanding your music library.

bobot: Yes! Yeah, they're cool.
  #35  
Old 08-05-2018, 05:49 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
So, I started in on my Spotify playlist today. Listened to some more Motorhead Ace of Spades and all of Judas Priest 's British Steel. I like both these guys, but I don't honestly see a ton of distinction between them and, say, the Who or Steppenwolf or...less technical Rush, or any other just very hard rock bands. They are riffy, and bluesey and fun. Absolutely going to hang on to these albums and listen again. So far this is still firmly inside my comfort zone though.

Quick breakdown of thoughts on the albums:
I already knew three tracks off British Steel, but actually liked them less than the tracks I didn't know. "Grinder "stood out on that album as just an awesome rocker, as did "Red White and Blue" because it was so different. I also appreciate the bass and general riffiness on "Rage" which was the only track I felt really felt like what I think of as stereotypical metal in the sense that it has a very operatic feel, but even then not a ton more than maybe Led Zeppelin or Rush (who I guess is actually metal based on the movie, but I would not have considered them to be). I really like this album though it bogged down as a little samey. I could have stood for it to have dropped a couple of tracks in the middle, though I would be hard pressed to tell you which right now. Rob Halford has a hell of a voice too.

Motorhead:
I have heard the track Ace of Spades about 50,000 times, because I am alive in the world, but the rest of the album was new to me. Probably more bluesy than Judas Priest. Also solidly riffy and with a great rhythm section. Very propulsive feeling. Motorhead plays guitar solos that feel right to me as a blues rock guitar player. They don't feel showy for the sake of showy, they feel connected and organic and growing out of the main riffs. Again, feels like the child of Steppenwolf with Love Me Like a Reptile even quoting some riffs from Born to be Wild. I got tired of this album more easily than I did with the Judas Priest. While I can see myself intentionally coming back to listen to British Steel again, I feel like Ace of Spades is something that will live in a playlist and I will be pleasantly surprised when it shows up on shuffle. Still, genuinely enjoyed everything on it, but nothing in particular stood out and grabbed me the way the stuff on the Judas Priest album did. Looking back over the track listing, I did really like "Fast and Loose". Lemmys voice on that one is amazing and the main riff is really fun. In a lot of ways it feels like a more musically proficient and apolitical Sex Pistols and I sort of feel about this album the way I feel about Never Mind the Bollocks. I like it, but listening to the whole thing in one go sort of bores me. They also seem like they killed live.

Ok, Iron Maiden is next on my list.
  #36  
Old 08-05-2018, 06:21 PM
mack is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,529
If you find a song you like, go to Spotify radio, do a search, and Spotify will pull up a couple dozen songs in that same vein. I’ve gotten many good leads This way.
  #37  
Old 08-05-2018, 07:15 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Holy cow guys. I might be an Iron Maiden fan and I just didn't know it. I am about halfway through Killers and I like it so much I felt compelled to stop and post this.

I am surprised because I was pretty sure I wasn't going to like it going into it. But, yeah, dynamics, tempo shifts, key variation, not nearly as crazy over the top theatrical as I was expecting. (Some of it reminds me a little of Jethro Tull, and again prog bands). But none of the samey feeling I got from Judas Priest and Motorhead. I'm through Prodigal Son and I have not been bored or disliked any of it yet.

Back with more later.

Last edited by NAF1138; 08-05-2018 at 07:19 PM.
  #38  
Old 08-05-2018, 08:20 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
IM are the epitome of the NWOBHM, IMO. I'm not a huge fan, but it's hard to deny their overall proficiency as far as presentation, performance, lyrics, etc.

My thing is, I don't particularly care for the operatic/classical aspect of it at all. But even I think they have a handful of killer tunes; Run To The Hills and Two Minutes To Midnight, for example, are both fucking awesome.

I'm gonna go advanced here and based on your reaction to Iron Maiden, I'm gonna recommend something that you may not be ready for. This is a progressive death metal band from Melbourne: Ne Obliviscaris - And Plague Flowers The Kaleidoscope.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-05-2018 at 08:21 PM.
  #39  
Old 08-05-2018, 08:48 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
IM are the epitome of the NWOBHM, IMO. I'm not a huge fan, but it's hard to deny their overall proficiency as far as presentation, performance, lyrics, etc.

My thing is, I don't particularly care for the operatic/classical aspect of it at all. But even I think they have a handful of killer tunes; Run To The Hills and Two Minutes To Midnight, for example, are both fucking awesome.

I'm gonna go advanced here and based on your reaction to Iron Maiden, I'm gonna recommend something that you may not be ready for. This is a progressive death metal band from Melbourne: Ne Obliviscaris - And Plague Flowers The Kaleidoscope.

Yeah based purely on what I heard in Metal:a headbangers journey I really expected to not like them. I was expecting far more power metal I suppose? This wasn't that. Maybe they get more theatrical as they go on. I think this is a pretty early album.
  #40  
Old 08-05-2018, 09:46 PM
Tinker Grey is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Greenville, Texas
Posts: 704
Gojira: Global Warming
  #41  
Old 08-05-2018, 10:40 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
Yeah based purely on what I heard in Metal:a headbangers journey I really expected to not like them. I was expecting far more power metal I suppose? This wasn't that. Maybe they get more theatrical as they go on. I think this is a pretty early album.
They're very theatrical all the time, IMO, but as I said: I'm not a fan. Bruce Dickinson has a helluva voice and he loves to use it; so do his mates and Iron Maiden's fans, so he does. His voice is definitely one of the standout things for the band, but he never stays too long in power metal territory, thankfully.

In my head, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest are indelibly linked as pretty much the top of NWOBHM bands, and I like that I hear so much similarity and so much difference in their music. They're shufflers for sure, but their songs that I like get turned up when they start moving air.

How about some history? Let's talk about proto-metal!

Back in 1969, a young guitar player named Richie Wise met a couple of even younger teenagers who could play bass and drums, Kenny Aaronson and Marc Bell. They formed a band called Dust that released 2 albums, an eponymous debut in 1971 and a follow-up called Hard Attack the next year. They broke up soon after, tho, because Wise wanted to write songs and produce records rather than perform; Aaronson would join him in this endeavor and a short time later they helped usher in KISS by producing their first two albums and writing a few of the songs therein.

The drummer liked performing tho and continued his career with a number of acts for another 5 years, including a stint with Richard Hell & the Voidoids, playing on their first album. In 1978, tho, he became known to all as Marky Ramone, a name he would carry for the next 15 years and the name he is still best known by today.

Anyway, Dust was known for being heavy and fast. Marc Bell says on the 2013 re-release liner notes that Richie just kept making him play faster and faster with every take; he couldn't believe how fast he was playing! This was 1971, mind. They don't hold a candle to a lot of metal acts today, but for their time, they are pretty up-tempo. The songs are good, too; Richie Wise is a capable tunesmith and player. Aaronson's bass playing is solid, too. Check out Dust - Love Me Hard.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-05-2018 at 10:40 PM.
  #42  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:09 PM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker Grey View Post
That was really cool!


Quote:
This is a progressive death metal band from Melbourne: Ne Obliviscaris - And Plague Flowers The Kaleidoscope.
Ok. So I get what you are saying about maybe not being ready. Fiddles and acoustic instruments were awesome, then the produced stuff came in... It's a little slick for my taste but yeah good stuff, then the vocals came in and my brain broke. It's not even that I dislike it, but it's like it went from being music that I understood to being something entirely different with no transition. Not bad but very confusing.

I see those Lost in Vegas linked to above guys did a reaction to the track, I'm going to see if they felt the same way.
  #43  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:51 PM
DavidwithanR is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
... Where is fuckin' Bill Clinton...
"Wild Bill" Hickok
"Buffalo Bill" Cody
"Fuckin' Bill" Clinton

Part of a proud tradition. Sort of.
  #44  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:52 PM
Covfefe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 100 miles N. of Chicago
Posts: 1,544
I recommend Tiamat's The Astral Sleep as an introduction to death metal and Summoning's Stronghold as an introduction to black metal.
  #45  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:11 AM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
Ok, so I moved on to The Number of the Beast by Iron Maiden and I am liking it less than Killers. It's a lot more polished and is missing the teeth in the musical sound that the previous album had. Still not bad. Invaders was pretty fun but I didn't like Children of the Damned at all and Prisoner I wanted to like but it went too far over the top for me. I'll finish up the album I have a lot of time to listen to music today and will report back. Dio is next after this unless someone wants to shout out a suggestion for something else first.
  #46  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:23 AM
Cuckoorex is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 3,789
Once you've cut your teeth on classic metal and are working your way up, try on Opeth for size. Definitely prog-metal, sometimes even crazier prog-metal-jazz. Start out with their album Ghost Reveries, or Watershed.
__________________
Maybe God doesn't want robots, but he sure seems to like playing with action figures...
  #47  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:42 AM
Doyle's Avatar
Doyle is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 883
Maybe a bit more accessible is Symphonic Metal.

Nightwish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj1DwR8rTUs

Within Temptation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmLIE6ULtyU
  #48  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:54 AM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 28,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuckoorex View Post
Once you've cut your teeth on classic metal and are working your way up, try on Opeth for size. Definitely prog-metal, sometimes even crazier prog-metal-jazz. Start out with their album Ghost Reveries, or Watershed.
Hush! I'm saving Opeth for him ; he's still a few weeks away tho, IMO.
  #49  
Old 08-06-2018, 11:10 AM
NAF1138 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of Philly
Posts: 10,115
So reading up on it, Killers had a different vocalist than Number of the Beast which might explain why their sound seemed to get so suddenly operatic. Number of the Beast also has a problem of me liking the first half of songs a lot, but then not finishing as strong. Everything turns into arena rock at the end. I loved the first half of The Prisoner, Total Eclipse and Hallowed be Thy Name but after that all of them went in a pretty disappointing direction.

So, maybe I'm not actually an Iron Maiden fan. They get to be a little too 80s movie soundtrack metal sounding. I did like the title track and Gangland and mostly liked Run to the Hills and Invaders.
  #50  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:42 PM
Channing Idaho Banks's Avatar
Channing Idaho Banks is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: beautiful Idaho
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
Dio is next after this unless someone wants to shout out a suggestion for something else first.
the first concert I ever saw was Ronnie James Dio, back in 1985, so I know a little bit about this. Definitely start with Blackmore's Rainbow Rising, then listen to Blackmore's Rainbow Long Live Rock and Roll. Then I would head over to the Black Sabbath Dio era albums with Ronnie James Dio: Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. After Dio went solo he recorded Holy Diver and The Last in Line, which are great albums. Not really a fan of any of his subsequent follow-up albums, he tends to write the same songs about dragons and rainbows over and over again.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017