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  #251  
Old 09-29-2018, 08:41 AM
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For Cannibal Corpse "The Bleeding" is great but I would recommend "Kill" instead. (I personally prefer "Butchered at Birth and "Tomb of the Mutilated" but that's because I was a teenager from western NY in the 90's so hometown band syndrome)

One band I quite enjoy thar never gets the attention is DevilDriver. I thought Coal Camber was one of the better nu-metal bands (same singer). Plus how can you not love a band who turns country songs into Black/Death Metal.

In the same vein is HELLYEAH. Pantera crossed with Mudvayne..what's not to love. I suppose it's a little bit too much "redneck" metal for some tastes, but after some shots of whiskey if you crank "Drink, Drank, Drunk" something is probably getting broken my the house from getting rowdy (and I'm 40 so it takes something to get break stuff rowdy)
  #252  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:18 AM
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Ok, if we're back to doom style again, I have to recommend Red Fang
  #253  
Old 09-29-2018, 02:21 PM
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If people are suggesting Doom while I wait for the Grindcore breakdown I am up for it. I like me some Doom metal. I had actually started an entirely separate listening list for Doom because my doom section got so long.

I'll bump Orange Goblin and The Sword to the top of my list along with Down (which was on my Doom list next.)
  #254  
Old 09-29-2018, 04:04 PM
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Ok, if we're back to doom style again, I have to recommend Red Fang
If you recommend a Red Fang song, you have to link to Prehistoric Dog, because the video is the apex of Western Civilisation. It was all downhill for society after they shot that, we'd peaked.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:12 PM
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Also I'm going to throw in Swedish desert/stoner metal Truckfighters: if you like drawling fuzzed out spacey riffitude, this is for you.
  #256  
Old 09-29-2018, 08:13 PM
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If you recommend a Red Fang song, you have to link to Prehistoric Dog, because the video is the apex of Western Civilisation. It was all downhill for society after they shot that, we'd peaked.
These guys rule. I watched both linked videos and like 3 others.
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:50 PM
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How about Okilly Dokilly?
  #258  
Old 09-30-2018, 06:40 PM
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Grindcore.

Hmmmm. This has been harder to organize in my head than I had hoped but not harder than I had feared, thank Og. I'll try and summarize the genre's components and evolution in this post and then post links to songs in a separate post.

Grindcore is the ultimate punk-rock-style "fuck you" to the concept of Western pop music. But it didn't start out trying to be.

Grindcore, musically, started from basically two things: trying to go faster than everyone else and trying to sound more distorted than everyone else. That's the origin in a nutshell. Nothing fancy, no game-changing philosophy behind the music, no great moral convictions... just a bunch of punk rock kids trying to play faster and louder and angrier than anyone had every played before; it's very much related to both powerviolence and thrash core in origin.

The fact that the result of that WAS game-changing, was a definite example of deconstruction of an art form AND that the people involved in creating it were smart enough to realize and understand that is a big reason why it continued and evolved. Today, you'll find a lot of crossover with different metal genres musically, particularly slam. And there's some commonality in elements of sludge, notably the vocals and the emphasis on 'noise'.

Typical stuff in grindcore: highly distorted (usually through technique alone) vocals, distorted down-tuned guitars & bass, jackhammer drums loaded with blast beats, sometimes almost entirely blast beats. Pace of songs can often exceed 200bpm, although it's also not uncommon for songs to be only a few seconds long. The vast majority of grindcore vocals are impossible to understand, with that being a kind of badge of honor among vocalists nowadays, I think.

Much of grindcore is categorized by the lyrical content or themes, despite the fact that about 0% of the words can be understood (or even recognized as words, a lot of the time). Thus you'll see things labeled as goregrind (lyrical themes of gore, natch), pornogrind (porn), etc. Sub-genres can also be based on outside aural influences brought into the grindcore genre, such as electrogrind (electronic music elements), noisegrind (noise rock influences) and blackened grind (black metal).

So Napalm Death happened. Bolt Thrower happened. Carcass happened. Then, in America, Repulsion and Exhumed and Terrorizer and Anal Cunt happened. With grindcore solidly it's own genre, Cephalic Carnage showed us all what it really meant was possible. The thing was, only a tiny number of people were paying attention (still true for the genre today, nearly 30 years later).

Mind you, it was a much derided, misunderstood genre at the time. It was so fucking brutal that it actually turned away a lot of punk rock kids, but so fucking short and in your face, like having a 5 minute football coach diatribe blasted at your face in just seconds, that it freaked out most headbangers too.

And then there was the humor. Anal Cunt in particular reveled in being as over-the-top as they could and Seth Putnam knew that their songs were largely incoherent bursts of noise so he took to giving their songs hilarious and outrageous names. To a lot of people, this suggested that grindcore was a "joke" genre, perpetuated by the untalented or the deranged for even more deranged and gullible audiences.

But it didn't die. There was just enough product and just enough real thought being put into just enough grindcore that a 2nd generation popped up in the mid and late 1990s, largely focused lyrically on politics and social issues. That gave them ready audience for marketing, and since some of these guys could actually play and write and some of the lyrics were actually coherent screeds, they too began to exert influence, spreading blast beats all over the place.

The evolution of grindcore is a murky thing, with lots of crossover and borrowing from other types of metal, punk rock, electronic music and Europop. Today, grindcore is a wide, weird and wonderful world, ranging from truly disgusting and disturbing music to truly disgusting and humorous music to disturbingly catchy and humorously disgusting music.

Vocals range from demon frog to demon pig to demon to really angry person shouting to dear-God-what-the-fuck-is-that-a-person-making-those-noises? And as I said, it's kind of a badge of honor that the vocalists are making those noises themselves, not using distortion pedals or harmonizers or whatever.

Drums are insanely important to grindcore, particularly the snare. If you like snare drumming, you'll find stuff to admire in grindcore. In fact, just the sound of the snare, the actual aural quality of it, is important to bands, with most favoring a very dry, snare-less sound that cuts right thru the music but with most drummers trying very hard to distinguish themselves with different tones. The snare is also often featured prominently in the mix, so if you don't like that sound, you're gonna find a lot of grindcore annoying as hell.

Bass is also usually fairly prominent in the mix and is almost always heavily distorted.

The rhythm section in grindcore is usually tight as fuck, playing at insane speeds but providing a nearly-but-not mechanical template for the chaotic guitars and vocals. This allows the chaos to subside or coalesce for tension-and-release.

One of the things I like about grindcore is that it's like the punk rock frontier of heavy music at the moment. As a commercial venture, there's fuck-all to be made from the music, for the most part, so we've got a genre that's been largely untouched by anyone that didn't actually already like it for several decades now. There's a strange sense of humor present in most of the songs; even goregrind is about evenly split between vomit-inducing disgust and laughter-inducing black humor. Pornogrind runs the gamut from violently misogynistic lyrics to "bom chikka wow wow" tongue-in-cheek cheekiness. There's a lot of freedom within the genre and a lot of willingness in fans to allow that freedom, and I find that very exciting.

Oh, one of the conventions of grindcore is that abbreviations for censorious purposes are done with a lower case "x" instead of a period. Thus you'll see Anal Cunt referred to as AxCx, etc.

I don't know that I've done a very good job here; the genre is, to me, complex as hell, encompassing a wide variety of artistic goals and techniques, many of them so alien and strange to the generally accepted popular culture encapsulated by the term "music" that it can require quite a bit of intellectualizing to explain all of what is being heard and why.

But I think I'd boil my advice to appreciate grindcore down to several key points:

1. Have a sense of humor. Being ridiculous is fine in grindcore, even encouraged.

2. Don't be overly concerned with technical precision. While there are elements of grindcore that are demanding, for the most part it favors enthusiasm over exactitude.

3. Enjoy sounds much more than you enjoy words; words are simply mouth-noises to convey information of some kind, right?
  #259  
Old 09-30-2018, 06:46 PM
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WARNING:
IF YOU ARE ANYWHERE OTHER THAN COMPLETELY ALONE, ALL OF THIS MUSIC & VIDEO SHOULD PROLLY BE CONSIDERED BLATANTLY DISGUSTING AND OFFENSIVE!

SOMETIMES WORDS AND SENTIMENTS ARE CLEARLY ENUNCIATED THAT SHOULD PROLLY NOT BE BLASTED THROUGH A WORKPLACE OR, SAY, A CHILDREN'S PLAYGROUND!

SOMETIMES VIOLENT AND/OR PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGERY MAY BE DISPLAYED!

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SPOILER THE ENTIRE POST OR BE BLAMED FOR THE POSSIBLY-DISAPPROVING LOOKS ON THE FACES OF PEOPLE NEAR YOU, EH!

-------

Early grindcore. Bands that still perform this style are now sometimes referred to as classic grindcore or old school grindcore.

Bolt Thrower - In Battle There Is No Law - the whole 30 minute demo album

Napalm Death - Scum - This is the whole 33 minute album. You can prolly hear the S.O.D. influence clear as day there, I know I can.

With both of these albums, IMO the limitations of the studio equipment and the people behind the boards are both extremely detrimental to the presentation of this music; thank Og that live shows abounded and perceptive ears were everywhere.

Anal Cunt - Everyone Should Be Killed - 58 tracks with an average length of about a minute; it's a long and largely unvaried ride. The fact that there are variations seems to somehow add to both the seriousness and the humor of the music, tho, IMO.

Assück - Anticapital - IMO the first political grind band; this album was a big deal.

Magrudergrind - Magrudergrind - modern political grind, this is their 2009 album (all 23 minutes/17 songs of it)

The band that IMO showed us all what that template made possible:

Cephalic Carnage - Exploiting Dysfunction

Then there's death grind:

Pig Destroyer - Gravedancer - I should note that this band has grown and changed quite a bit since this song was recorded. For instance, they just added a bass player.

Benighted - Carnivore Sublime - playlist of the whole album by this French outfit is about 38 minutes. On this album you can hear some of the demon pig squeal vocals that are now a prominent part of grindcore (not presented as a historical example or anything, just noting that they're there; this is their 2014 album after all).

You can immediately hear that the songs are much more complex than classic grind, as you'd expect from melding death metal with grindcore.

Goregrind:

Exhumed - Anatomy Is Destiny

Gutslit - Amputheatre - one of my 10 best listens from 2017, this band from India significantly upped the ante from their raw-but-fun debut.

Death grind/pornogrind:

Grind Of The Dead - Pussy Jamz

Pornogrind:

Rompeprop - Gargle Cummics

Teen Pussy Fuckers - Just Some Pornstars - serious pig vocals here
Teen Pussy Fuckers - Pigtails

Vaginal Penetration Of An Amelus With A Musty Carrot - Eyeball Peeler - you can prolly see why this band's name is often abbreviated. Amazing pig and frog vocals tho.
Vaginal Penetration Of An Amelus With A Musty Carrot - Embryo's Orgasm - very not safe for work video;

Note that lyrically pornogrind isn't like watching porn set to grindcore. It's often misogynistc as hell, sometimes disturbingly so even when presented as "joke-y".

Groovy grindcore kind of combines a lot of those influences but emphasizes having some kind of actual headbang-able parts. Lyrical content runs the gamut from smut to gore to scat and more.

Piggy - Porcogore (14 tracks, 27 minutes) - a fav from last year

Grindzilla - Toshinquandon (15 songs, 32 minutes) - a fav from this year

Gutalax - Shit Happens - yes, every song is about feces; what else would you expect from a band named after a laxative? These guys put on brilliant live shows and are a favorite at OEF.

And here's some more recent stuff just cause I like it:

Sewage Grinder - Solid Waste - 39 songs of crusty grindcore in 20 minutes

Brutal Sphincter - Analhu Akbar - deceptively named band; this brilliant 16 song, 31 minute album is 100% political in focus

Sarugutuwa - Namakubi - 12 songs, 35 minutes with some freaking amazing front-and-center snare drum work.

NAILS - Abandon All Life - okay, kind of a powerviolence/noise/grindcore outfit, I admit but they are IMO one of the most vicious, brutal bands around today, reducing everything to an incredibly loud, violent series of outbursts that happen at insane speeds. I love all 10 songs and 17 minutes of this album. It was a classic to me as soon as I heard it.

-------

Wow, on preview that's an off-putting shitload of music I just linked to. Sorry about that.

Take your time, eh.
  #260  
Old 09-30-2018, 11:13 PM
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I botched the second Gutalax live show link.
  #261  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:48 AM
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Bo, you forgot to mention the only place (to my knowledge) where grindcore was hugely popular: Hungary!

Also, Agoraphobic Nosebleed - Altered States of America

And I actually like the production on Scum.

Btw, NAF, check out Red Harvest for industrial metal. New World Rage Music, New Rage World Music, Cold Dark Matter and Sick Transit Gloria Mundi are all great albums.
  #262  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:30 AM
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Ditto Orange Goblin, who are equally steeped in the 70s.
That certainly seemed to encapsulate the 70s hard rock/protometal sound except it doesn't seem to have very many guitar soloes, which is the best part of that sound. The rest of it is great if you're into that, but to me it's sort of like an otherwise great-looking person with a blank face (no eyes, mouth, etc.)
  #263  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:37 AM
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"Teach me to appreciate" implies that, somehow, the reason you don't like it is that you are musically deficient in some way, and someone needs to open your eyes to its greatness.

Most people don't like it because it is loud, cacophonous crap. That may be why the genre's main followers are teenagers.
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Old 10-01-2018, 09:42 AM
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"Teach me to appreciate" implies that, somehow, the reason you don't like it is that you are musically deficient in some way, and someone needs to open your eyes to its greatness.

Most people don't like it because it is loud, cacophonous crap. That may be why the genre's main followers are teenagers.
Thank you for this post; it's good to have an example of what ignorance sounds like in the thread, I guess.
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Old 10-01-2018, 09:46 AM
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Bo, you forgot to mention the only place (to my knowledge) where grindcore was hugely popular: Hungary!
Hungary and Germany, for sure. Czechoslovakia too. Not are why it resonates so much with Slavic countries, but it sure does.
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Aye; a bit after I posted I realized I had left them off. [shrug]
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And I actually like the production on Scum.
I think the engineers were doing the best they could back then. The style is just so different than anything else that came before, tho.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-01-2018 at 09:46 AM. Reason: fixed coding
  #266  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:49 AM
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Thank you for this post; it's good to have an example of what ignorance sounds like in the thread, I guess.
His OP was couched in language that indicated that he might be laboring under the impression that he was somehow deficient for not liking the genre. I simply addressed that possibility and suggested an alternative explanation.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:47 AM
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I forgot to post the link to the grindcore movie, too.

https://www.grindcorefilm.com

It's called Slave To The Grind and it's finished but not really in release. Right now to see it you have to find somewhere that it's been booked, and bookings seem to be happening mostly at festivals and at theaters that have rented a screen out for a day or a week. Or you can book a showing yourself. Hopefully there's a DVD or BR release soon, tho: I really don't want to have to book a showing here in Las Vegas myself in order to see it.

Slave To The Grind - Official Trailer (2018)

Slave To The Grind Sneak Peek: Repulsion And Blast Beats

Slave To The Grind - Kickstarter Video

Slave To The Grind Documentary - Director Live Q&A| Metal Injection
  #268  
Old 10-01-2018, 12:26 PM
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"Teach me to appreciate" implies that, somehow, the reason you don't like it is that you are musically deficient in some way, and someone needs to open your eyes to its greatness.

Most people don't like it because it is loud, cacophonous crap. That may be why the genre's main followers are teenagers.
I said this before, but I was going for more of a "metal appreciation class" vibe like you might get (and I have taken) for classical or Jazz.

Which is the vibe the thread does have. So, success on that front.
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:54 PM
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His OP was couched in language that indicated that he might be laboring under the impression that he was somehow deficient for not liking the genre. I simply addressed that possibility and suggested an alternative explanation.
When it comes to personal taste in music, I really don’t like Jazz. I find it meanders aimlessly and often seems like repetitive noise. As a genre, it has no appeal for me. That said, Jazz isn’t “crap”. Jazz is one of the most difficult styles to master and it is no cool incidence that Jazz icons are thought to be some of the most accomplished musicians around. Jazz doesn’t speak to me and that is okay, could be I do not have the patience to try and understand it.
Judging by NAF1138’s responses, it doesn’t seem like he thinks Metal is “loud, cacophonous crap”. At this juncture that would seem more like trolling than offering an alternate explanation.
  #270  
Old 10-01-2018, 01:50 PM
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"Teach me to appreciate" implies that, somehow, the reason you don't like it is that you are musically deficient in some way, and someone needs to open your eyes to its greatness.

Most people don't like it because it is loud, cacophonous crap. That may be why the genre's main followers are teenagers.
You know what, there are a bunch of people in here having a fun, informative discussion. If you don't like the genre, fine, but don't come in just to crap in the punchbowl.
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:35 PM
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"Teach me to appreciate" implies that, somehow, the reason you don't like it is that you are musically deficient in some way, and someone needs to open your eyes to its greatness.

Most people don't like it because it is loud, cacophonous crap. That may be why the genre's main followers are teenagers.
Interesting... Tell me more about something you obviously know nothing about.
  #272  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:36 PM
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Jasmine, if you don't like metal, then why are you in a thread about metal?
  #273  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:47 PM
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Loud and cacophonous crap. That's the point! If your delicate sensibilities don't allow you to appreciate the music then sorry for your loss. Oh and by the way a music form that has existed for roughly 40 years isn't soley the domain of "Teenagers" I'm 40 years old and still find new metal music that I enjoy and share with my children in their 20's. Please heap your half-assed scorn on me and mine because it makes me smile knowing that the same old uptight, window- licking, jackasses never go away.
  #274  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:47 PM
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I've been kind of bouncing off several bands the last few days ...

You know, I'm amazed and I'm laughing my guts out at the same time.



I went back the whole thread just to be sure, and besides my off-hand, dismissive mention of them nobody said The Name. And I am in awe. Here's NAFsomethingorother, the guy I'm kind of giving up on because he only likes them as play this metalhead's "devil music" instead of digging the likes of Blind Guardian. And he's got all kinds of necrotic black doomcore of death bullshit lined up but still, among them (I'm sure) gems, there's that yeast infection showing up. You've seen it, you've cringed too.TESTIFY, BOYS !


Manowar.



Now when I say yeast infection, don't take it as a put down, even though it is - I mean that we've all got it somewhere around metal puberty, and it's no shame, it's just a larnin' experience. But I did mention them in the same breath as Hammerfall, and they're for real the American Hammerfall only maybe, perhaps, with a sense of humour.


I legit do not know.
To this day, I wonder whether Joey DiMaio is self-aware and Manowar is just a prolonged exercise in taking the piss, or whether "may your sword be wet like a young girl in her prime" is a lyric one can write in earnest.
I do not know. I will never know. But fuck it. The gods *did* make heavy metal ! I'll give 'em that !
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Old 10-01-2018, 09:21 PM
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You know, I'm amazed and I'm laughing my guts out at the same time.



I went back the whole thread just to be sure, and besides my off-hand, dismissive mention of them nobody said The Name. And I am in awe. Here's NAFsomethingorother, the guy I'm kind of giving up on because he only likes them as play this metalhead's "devil music" instead of digging the likes of Blind Guardian. And he's got all kinds of necrotic black doomcore of death bullshit lined up but still, among them (I'm sure) gems, there's that yeast infection showing up. You've seen it, you've cringed too.TESTIFY, BOYS !


Manowar.



Now when I say yeast infection, don't take it as a put down, even though it is - I mean that we've all got it somewhere around metal puberty, and it's no shame, it's just a larnin' experience. But I did mention them in the same breath as Hammerfall, and they're for real the American Hammerfall only maybe, perhaps, with a sense of humour.


I legit do not know.
To this day, I wonder whether Joey DiMaio is self-aware and Manowar is just a prolonged exercise in taking the piss, or whether "may your sword be wet like a young girl in her prime" is a lyric one can write in earnest.
I do not know. I will never know. But fuck it. The gods *did* make heavy metal ! I'll give 'em that !
I'm not going to pretend I understand any of this post, but I think there was a dig at me not liking Blind Guardian enough in there. I really enjoyed Nightfall on Middle Earth!

The rest I guess I'm not inside enough to get.

Someday I will re read this and laugh I'm sure?
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:05 AM
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I'm not going to pretend I understand any of this post, but I think there was a dig at me not liking Blind Guardian enough in there. I really enjoyed Nightfall on Middle Earth!

The rest I guess I'm not inside enough to get.

Someday I will re read this and laugh I'm sure?

You'll understand when you get to listening to Manowar. They're horrible, but kind of in a fun way.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:51 AM
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WARNING:
IF YOU ARE ANYWHERE OTHER THAN COMPLETELY ALONE, ALL OF THIS MUSIC & VIDEO SHOULD PROLLY BE CONSIDERED BLATANTLY DISGUSTING AND OFFENSIVE!

SOMETIMES WORDS AND SENTIMENTS ARE CLEARLY ENUNCIATED THAT SHOULD PROLLY NOT BE BLASTED THROUGH A WORKPLACE OR, SAY, A CHILDREN'S PLAYGROUND!

SOMETIMES VIOLENT AND/OR PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGERY MAY BE DISPLAYED!

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO SPOILER THE ENTIRE POST OR BE BLAMED FOR THE POSSIBLY-DISAPPROVING LOOKS ON THE FACES OF PEOPLE NEAR YOU, EH!

-------

Early grindcore. Bands that still perform this style are now sometimes referred to as classic grindcore or old school grindcore.

Bolt Thrower - In Battle There Is No Law - the whole 30 minute demo album

Napalm Death - Scum - This is the whole 33 minute album. You can prolly hear the S.O.D. influence clear as day there, I know I can.

With both of these albums, IMO the limitations of the studio equipment and the people behind the boards are both extremely detrimental to the presentation of this music; thank Og that live shows abounded and perceptive ears were everywhere.

Anal Cunt - Everyone Should Be Killed - 58 tracks with an average length of about a minute; it's a long and largely unvaried ride. The fact that there are variations seems to somehow add to both the seriousness and the humor of the music, tho, IMO.

Assück - Anticapital - IMO the first political grind band; this album was a big deal.

Magrudergrind - Magrudergrind - modern political grind, this is their 2009 album (all 23 minutes/17 songs of it)

The band that IMO showed us all what that template made possible:

Cephalic Carnage - Exploiting Dysfunction

Then there's death grind:

Pig Destroyer - Gravedancer - I should note that this band has grown and changed quite a bit since this song was recorded. For instance, they just added a bass player.

Benighted - Carnivore Sublime - playlist of the whole album by this French outfit is about 38 minutes. On this album you can hear some of the demon pig squeal vocals that are now a prominent part of grindcore (not presented as a historical example or anything, just noting that they're there; this is their 2014 album after all).

You can immediately hear that the songs are much more complex than classic grind, as you'd expect from melding death metal with grindcore.

Goregrind:

Exhumed - Anatomy Is Destiny

Gutslit - Amputheatre - one of my 10 best listens from 2017, this band from India significantly upped the ante from their raw-but-fun debut.

Death grind/pornogrind:

Grind Of The Dead - Pussy Jamz

Pornogrind:

Rompeprop - Gargle Cummics

Teen Pussy Fuckers - Just Some Pornstars - serious pig vocals here
Teen Pussy Fuckers - Pigtails

Vaginal Penetration Of An Amelus With A Musty Carrot - Eyeball Peeler - you can prolly see why this band's name is often abbreviated. Amazing pig and frog vocals tho.
Vaginal Penetration Of An Amelus With A Musty Carrot - Embryo's Orgasm - very not safe for work video;

Note that lyrically pornogrind isn't like watching porn set to grindcore. It's often misogynistc as hell, sometimes disturbingly so even when presented as "joke-y".

Groovy grindcore kind of combines a lot of those influences but emphasizes having some kind of actual headbang-able parts. Lyrical content runs the gamut from smut to gore to scat and more.

Piggy - Porcogore (14 tracks, 27 minutes) - a fav from last year

Grindzilla - Toshinquandon (15 songs, 32 minutes) - a fav from this year

Gutalax - Shit Happens - yes, every song is about feces; what else would you expect from a band named after a laxative? These guys put on brilliant live shows and are a favorite at OEF.

And here's some more recent stuff just cause I like it:

Sewage Grinder - Solid Waste - 39 songs of crusty grindcore in 20 minutes

Brutal Sphincter - Analhu Akbar - deceptively named band; this brilliant 16 song, 31 minute album is 100% political in focus

Sarugutuwa - Namakubi - 12 songs, 35 minutes with some freaking amazing front-and-center snare drum work.

NAILS - Abandon All Life - okay, kind of a powerviolence/noise/grindcore outfit, I admit but they are IMO one of the most vicious, brutal bands around today, reducing everything to an incredibly loud, violent series of outbursts that happen at insane speeds. I love all 10 songs and 17 minutes of this album. It was a classic to me as soon as I heard it.

-------

Wow, on preview that's an off-putting shitload of music I just linked to. Sorry about that.

Take your time, eh.


So... Yeah, this was a lot. Fortunately most songs are short.

It kind of went from... OK this is weird but I understand what are doing to I understand what they are doing but not why someone would listen to this to what the fuck are they doing here to ok this is clearly self parody at this point.

I will spend a little more time with a lot of it and try to come back with more detailed thoughts. Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death I fully understand. It isn't my favorite but it makes sense (how's that for progress!) Also, the death grind stuff is kinda cool. The band from India Gutslit? They were pretty cool. So was Benighted. I didn't care for Pig Destroyer though. Anal Cunt also were... I get it. It's not really fun to listen to though. But sure it makes sense as a piece of art.

Then you get to a track like Embryos orgasm (even with just initials that band name is too long) and... The fuck? It's not even heavy anymore. And they clearly are not actually trying to articulate words. It's like dance pop punk with a lead singer who is an actual barnyard animal which... Sure, I guess. I'm not sure why, but whatever. Same with Grind of the Dead who I think must be a parody outfit. It makes no sense otherwise. Gutalax wraps all the way back around and becomes fun again because they go so full crazy weird that it closes the circle. Seeing the live show might have helped that.

I'm reminded that some people look for different things from music than I do. I was listening to liquid metal a week or so ago and the DJ said something like "I love this next song. It sounds like that feeling you get a tenth of a second before you break your leg, when you know it's going to break but you can't do anything to stop it." And... Sure. I don't remember what played but yeah I get it feeling that way. I'm just not sure I want my music to make me feel like that. Some people do. Heck mayne I do sometimes and don't know it. But... Yeah.

I dig weird and experimental and noise, but this may have hit my outer boundary.

Grindcore doesn't Suck Sonic Youth Does might be my favorite song title ever though. So there is that.
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  #278  
Old 10-03-2018, 05:18 PM
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So... Yeah, this was a lot. Fortunately most songs are short.
Aye; that's why I linked to whole albums rather than20 separate links for a bunch of 11 second songs or something.
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It kind of went from... OK this is weird but I understand what are doing to I understand what they are doing but not why someone would listen to this to what the fuck are they doing here to ok this is clearly self parody at this point.
Yep. I tried to be upfront about that.
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I will spend a little more time with a lot of it and try to come back with more detailed thoughts. Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death I fully understand. It isn't my favorite but it makes sense (how's that for progress!) Also, the death grind stuff is kinda cool. The band from India Gutslit? They were pretty cool. So was Benighted. I didn't care for Pig Destroyer though. Anal Cunt also were... I get it. It's not really fun to listen to though. But sure it makes sense as a piece of art.
Glad you liked some and I'm not surprised that they're among the least grind/most not-grindcore stuff.

Glad you understand that AC was art. A lot of people know it but can't understand the art enough to make sense of it and dismiss them as simply a long-running bad joke. Don't get me wrong, I think they were a long-running bad joke, but they knew it and kept being a bad joke on purpose because that was the point of the thing in the first place.
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Then you get to a track like Embryos orgasm (even with just initials that band name is too long) and... The fuck? It's not even heavy anymore. And they clearly are not actually trying to articulate words. It's like dance pop punk with a lead singer who is an actual barnyard animal which... Sure, I guess. I'm not sure why, but whatever.
See, this is part of where it's hard to talk about the evolution of grindcore because some of the little nooks and crannies and dark corners have their own weird micro-evolution and frankly, I'm still catching up with a lot of them.

The weird cheap drum machine polka oompa beat with the pig & frog vocals is a totally separate branch that AFACT started with bands like Gigantic Brain and the whole electrogrind thing, which showed that you could use drum machines to make insanely fast drum tracks for grindcore. At some point within the next decade, I started hearing stuff from Czech, Germany, Hungary, Russia & Ukraine that sounded like TxPxFx and VxPxOxAxAxWxAxMxCx, etc. Now, it's it's own style (although the videos I've seen do have a live drummer, just doing his/her best to sound like a cheap drum machine).

It's not for everyone, that's for sure, but I dig it. The polka beat is fun, which contrasts with the often disgusting lyrics making it all even more fun. And sometimes it's kinda horrifying how much fun it is because the lyrics are disgusting, which is straight up interesting to realize in a kind of moment-of-clarity moment eh.
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Same with Grind of the Dead who I think must be a parody outfit. It makes no sense otherwise. Gutalax wraps all the way back around and becomes fun again because they go so full crazy weird that it closes the circle. Seeing the live show might have helped that.
Aye. They're not GG Allins; they're Tesco Vees. Some bands are kind of the Meatmen of heavy metal, ya know what I'm sayin'?
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I'm reminded that some people look for different things from music than I do. I was listening to liquid metal a week or so ago and the DJ said something like "I love this next song. It sounds like that feeling you get a tenth of a second before you break your leg, when you know it's going to break but you can't do anything to stop it." And... Sure. I don't remember what played but yeah I get it feeling that way. I'm just not sure I want my music to make me feel like that. Some people do. Heck mayne I do sometimes and don't know it. But... Yeah.

I dig weird and experimental and noise, but this may have hit my outer boundary.
Grindcore is the outer boundary.
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Grindcore doesn't Suck Sonic Youth Does might be my favorite song title ever though. So there is that.
Oh man you ain't seen nothing yet.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-03-2018 at 05:19 PM. Reason: e
  #279  
Old 10-03-2018, 05:25 PM
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Oh, here are the reviews I wrote for Gutslit on Allmusic:

Skewered In The Sewer:
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Goregrind lyrics, blast beat domination and frantic, frenetic, feral guitar work... what's not to like?

Gutslit isn't breaking any new ground, but they are mining Cannibal Corpse/Carcass territory with terrific results. The breaks to showcase one instrument for 1 or 2 seconds are awesome. Vocals are less Cookie Monster and more Pig Demon and they're fantastic. The kick drum in Hemorrhoidal Brain Custard is phenomenal. In fact, the material on the album gets better and better, closing with the two strongest songs in the set.

India has a thriving and awesome metal scene; Gutslit is an excellent addition and this album totally rocks.
Amputheatre:
Quote:
28 minutes of focused brutality

Like their previous collection, this one begins with a tame introduction of about a minute, presumably to lull the listener into a false sense of comfort that there will be calm, quiet moments perhaps, buried within the aural maelstrom that will surely erupt... but no, there is no comfort, there is no calm, there is no safe harbor.

This is grindgore combined with thrash and pop sensibilities, part of which I mean to say that the songs are long for grindcore even if they mostly fall shy of the 3:30 pop song ideal. The songs all have definite structures and repeated parts, but they're all so over-the-top fast and dissonant, thudding like a thousand stampeding hooves, that they fly right by, leaving me wanting to hear them again. The production is a step up from their last album, even, with everything crisp and clear. The kick drum is so clear and so fast that it reaches a bizarre drone-like quality at times.

The guitar riffs are tasty. Excellent tone, plenty of scrape and crunch and just enough wiggly weirdness to turn a semi-ordinary riff into something extraordinary.

The vocals are excellent, even better than their last album, with lots of variety in every song.

And as if to prove a point, the album ends with a song more than 2 minutes longer than any other that destroys itself.

It totally rocks!
I really, really like Amputheatre.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-03-2018 at 05:26 PM.
  #280  
Old 10-03-2018, 05:51 PM
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I'll agree grindcore is on the outer boundary... Harsh-noise is beyond the boundary. Of course there's some overlap, but I've seen and heard nothing more extreme than some deservedly (I love them though!) not very popular or well known harsh-noise groups. One of them was physically painful, not ear-wise, but in my neck, back and groin (very specifically directed blastbeats...). It's the only time I've had pain peeing after a concert.
  #281  
Old 10-05-2018, 10:17 AM
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I'll also admit to Finntroll (more folk metal than anything else) being one of my favorite bands ever.
I was listening to my playlist of stuff i wanted to come back to on shuffle last night and Fintroll came on. They are so great. The more I hear the more I like them.

Also, Google apperantly knows that I like High On Fire because I woke up with a Google alert on my phone informing me that they just dropped a new album. So, that's exciting too.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:35 PM
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It's only tangentially related to the thread but I spent most of the day reading this article about Andrew W. K. and the embedded links and... It's been a fascinating and fun read.

You all may know about all this already but if you don't it's a crazy fun ride.
  #283  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:02 AM
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heh - coming in way late to post:

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Grindcore.

/snip/

I don't know that I've done a very good job here...

Yeah, dude.

Yes, yes, you did.
  #284  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:43 PM
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I just dropped by to point out that:

Soulfly just dropped a new album and it has a track on it that is probably the best Sepultura song since 1996 or so. Why do I say that? Well, if you don't know, Soulfly is....kind of the Sepultura of today. It contains two members of classic Sepultura, including the original(and best) singer.

Anyway, it's free to listen to the GREAT track on youtube.

Listen to this one with headphones and appreciate how great Soulfly can be sometimes.
  #285  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:42 PM
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I just dropped by to point out that:

Soulfly just dropped a new album and it has a track on it that is probably the best Sepultura song since 1996 or so. Why do I say that? Well, if you don't know, Soulfly is....kind of the Sepultura of today. It contains two members of classic Sepultura, including the original(and best) singer.

Anyway, it's free to listen to the GREAT track on youtube.

Listen to this one with headphones and appreciate how great Soulfly can be sometimes.
Oh, awesome! I have heard some Soulfly on the xm radio and have liked them. I didn't realize they were Sepultura. I thought Sepultura was still around.

Edit : I did a complete discography of Sepultura up to Roots listen a few weeks ago that I have been meaning to post about but we just put an offer in on a house around that time and... Life got busy.

Last edited by NAF1138; 10-19-2018 at 06:43 PM.
  #286  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:52 PM
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Oh, awesome! I have heard some Soulfly on the xm radio and have liked them. I didn't realize they were Sepultura. I thought Sepultura was still around.

Edit : I did a complete discography of Sepultura up to Roots listen a few weeks ago that I have been meaning to post about but we just put an offer in on a house around that time and... Life got busy.
No, I was too confusing.

Sepultura is around, but there have been changes. It's at "Roots" that you can more or less stop listening to Sepultura because Max Cavalera left the band.

I really kind of think that Soulfly became more like Sepultura at that point and it is really is a matter of naming rights. Soulfly has been kind of hit and miss, but a lot better than Sepultura the last 20 years.
  #287  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:47 AM
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My biggest beef with Soulfly (at least the three first albums, I lost interest after that) is that if you've heard one song, you've more or less heard all of them. Things got pretty samey.
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:50 AM
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Btw, NAF, I believe you've graduated! Ask Bo for your diploma.
  #289  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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For Cannibal Corpse "The Bleeding" is great but I would recommend "Kill" instead. (I personally prefer "Butchered at Birth and "Tomb of the Mutilated" but that's because I was a teenager from western NY in the 90's so hometown band syndrome)
I think The Bleeding is the most famous album from Cannibal Corpse, though. It's kind of a classic.

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My biggest beef with Soulfly (at least the three first albums, I lost interest after that) is that if you've heard one song, you've more or less heard all of them. Things got pretty samey.
I think Max got a bit lazy and repetitive and the albums went up and down in quality.

The latest, Ritual, though.....is their best since their first one. Can you believe we now have 11 Soulfly albums? You can now put together a full album of instrumental tracks.
  #290  
Old 10-26-2018, 02:53 AM
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Btw, NAF, I believe you've graduated! Ask Bo for your diploma.
There is no graduation, only a continuing education program.
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No one goes "yeah, I was really into Slayer one summer", ya know? Like, I've never met that guy.
I think that after months and months of education and preparation, NAF, you're ready for Metalocalypse.

  #291  
Old 10-26-2018, 07:35 PM
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I was watching something today and I realized that it presented me with a good opportunity to revisit some things I wrote about CMVs. I wrote that I was able to make great sense out of them from the standpoint of artistic choice when I began to think of the singer as playing the role of a demon, like a musical actor. Metal in general makes a lot of sense IMO when viewed this way: it's theatrical, a purposeful presentation.

Sam Johnson is a voice teacher; he makes IMO excellent reaction and analysis videos and he either enjoys or simply isn't put off by metal. He brings a very informed and professional attitude (his concentration is evident when you watch him watch/listen to stuff) and I've learned a lot from his videos.

Anyway, about a month ago he did a video that I just got around to today where he reacted to Devin Townsend performing Kingdom. I've seen the video before, so it was great to watch Mr. Johnson as he saw/heard it for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-nm97NkRg

But what really struck me wasn't how he kept pointing out that Mr. Townsend was a very good vocalist using good techniques in both clean and dirty singing, it was how he also kept noting how every note was being sold and sold hard with facial expressions and even whole body stances. Devin Townsend was acting as if the notes were a strain, in order to better convey the emotions and content of the lyrics and music. It was theatre. Purposeful presentation.

  #292  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:14 PM
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Hey all

I wanted to give an update now that it's been, not quite a year, but almost, since I decided I wanted to learn about metal. Partly because, I finally got around to listening to Death's discography (I'm a fan!) and partly because I hate it when people just let these threads go and never update. So I saw Possessed released a new album and, it's good, and I got to thinking about how inpenetrable I found their first album, then gave it another listen and didn't even find it to be all that extreme. I realized my ears might have adjusted and went back and relistended to stuff and figured it was as good a time as any for an update.

So, since we last left I went away from listening to metal for a while. Several new hop albums came out, and I went on a deep dive into the bass players of Motown for a while, but even when I was not specifically listening to Metal the following bands seemed to have stuck in my regular rotation. 1)Bolt Thrower, 2) Panopticon, 3) Carcass, 4) Amon Amarth.

If you are surprised by this list, so am I! Not Bolt Thrower so much, but honestly of the above list Carcass is probably my favorite band and not by just a little. I listen to Heartwork and Symphonies of Sickness... Once a week? Each?

In fact when I listen to other Death Metal if I don't like it the reason is usually because it's either not enough like Carcass or not enough like Bolt Thrower and I put them on instead.

For a bit I thought my liking Carcass, in particular Heartwork, might mean I would be into other Melodeath, this is hokw Amon Amarth ended up back in my life. They are just full on fun and no longer sound so weird. They are theatrical but in a good way. It just took a minute. Unfortunately, I don't seem to like much other Melodeath much. At The Gates I still don't get at all.

On the other hand, I finally groked Opeth and really really have enjoyed listening to Death the last few weeks. Though it fails to be Bolt Thrower it's pretty awesome. In particular I'm liking Human. I also really like some of the Black Metal that I found off putting at first. Mayhem, just gave them another try a few days ago and was surprised at how much more accessable they seemed. I find myself listening tok Emperor and Immortal a lot too. Dark throne still does not click. Not for lack of trying.

I have also decided I really don't like Metal core. Like... At all. Feels very formulaic. Just like everything I disliked about NuMetal but without the turntables to at least make it interesting. No thank you.

Bands I still theoretically like but don't find myself listening to as much as I would have thought 1)Mastdon. Turns out while I REALLY like Leviathan, I don't care for the rest as much. 2) Slayer. Nothing wrong with them at all. I love them every time I hear them, but they never rise to the top of my brain. 3)Between the Burried and Me. They get a little exhausting to listen to after a while. 4) Megadeath. The band I figured I would listen to most back in September but I don't think I have at all. Thrash in general is just not calling to me right now. Not a dislike, but it's not grabbing me. 5) Sepeltura. My favorite band I never listen too. From their debut up to roots I like literally all of it so much and will happily tell anyone who asks how good they are, but I never put them on. No clue why.

Also, I still don't get the full on indecipherable singing. I want to like Suffocation, for example, but the vocals keep putting me off. Same with Cannibal Corpse. Especially after I saw the youtube video of the bass clarinet cover of Hamer Smash Face. Can't get down with it though. I don't have the problem with the high pitched vocals I can't understand, or growly stuff like Nile does. Only the deep pig grunts. Dunno. Maybe that will change too.

So, that's the update. Thanks again to everyone for opening these doors.

Last edited by NAF1138; 05-27-2019 at 06:17 PM.
  #293  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:46 PM
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Awesome that you came back and an equally awesome post.

FWIW, I rarely listen to a single album or band anymore except for the first time I hear it. When I get a new album, I'll play it all the way thru while I sit and listen, but after that it's usually just on shuffle with the other 2300 albums.

OTOH, some really kick-ass albums get extended play as the default audio setting in my car (meaning I put the CD in the player and leave it there, then I just let my phone charge instead of being the music library). That's why I've heard Suicidal Tendencies' 13 approximately 87,942 times (over 8 months in the car), Doctor Octagon's Moosebumps over 100,000 times (approximate) (14 months) , Waco Jesus' Sex, Drugs & Death Metal about 66,666 times (7 months), etc.

For news: Amon Amarth just released Berserker; it totally fucking rocks.

I've bought a bunch of new music recently, but it's almost all very obscure bands playing a very tooth-rattling, twisted kind of grindcore/death metal/slam. The more extreme stuff I listen to, the more other stuff just bores me, I find, so I keep listening to more and more extreme, heavier, denser music. Same thing happened to me with jazz once I dove into hard bop properly, come to think of it.
  #294  
Old 05-27-2019, 08:45 PM
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OK, so I'll lean in a bit and continue to push towards Max Cavalera. He was the singer of Sepultura, but after he left, he started Soulfly. And the truth is, Soufly is the real Sepultura these days. It continued the natural evolution I think Sepultura was on and they have (mostly) improved since 1996 or so when they began.

Try Prophecy, their fourth album
  #295  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:33 PM
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OK, so I'll lean in a bit and continue to push towards Max Cavalera. He was the singer of Sepultura, but after he left, he started Soulfly. And the truth is, Soufly is the real Sepultura these days. It continued the natural evolution I think Sepultura was on and they have (mostly) improved since 1996 or so when they began.

Try Prophecy, their fourth album
Thanks! I'll give it a listen.
  #296  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:43 PM
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I'm enjoying Rainbow Rising. As advertised it feels like it's a bridge between Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden. I can dig it. I'm kind of surprised I have never heard of them.

I listened to Holy Diver and didn't finish it. I found it to be a bit of a chore. It feels, to me, exactly like Survivor or Journey or any of those other 80s rock groups I was basically raised to hate. It's everything my teenage punk self assumed all metal was. Sorry. I can't listen to it and not picture a sports training montage. Decidedly not for me.
Sadly, I think part of the problem is that you were "in high school in the late 90s". I graduated high school in 1991, so I was fortunate to have been basically raised on classic hard rock and metal all through my formative years - AC/DC, Anthrax, Black Sabbath, Dio, Judas Priest, Megadeath, Metallica, Mötley Crüe, Motörhead, Napalm Death, Ozzy Osbourne, Queensrÿche, Slayer, Van Halen, etc.

Yes, to a certain extent, some of this music does conjure up "sports montages" and "rad dudes" waiting for their parents to go away on vacation in some 80s film.

What I found was that when I went off to college, most classic metal had fallen out of favor and was overshadowed by "grunge" (Alice in Chains, Soundgarden) more "industrial" metal (Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Stabbing Westward) or hybrid genres with "nu" or "core" in the name. (Disturbed, Deftones). And a lot of those 90s nu-coremetal bads sucked real bad (Limp Bizkit).

I can't really speak to the harder and more obscure "death metal" genres.
  #297  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:40 PM
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Yeah, don't take it too hard that you can't get into Dio's solo stuff. I listened to it at the time, and learned a bit of it to play in metal bands a the time, but I never go back and listen to it now. So, I'll go give it a listen, now...

(Listens to a couple of solo Dio songs to see why it never drew him back)

Wow, this is just the epitome of boring ass metal. When it's slow, it just plods. There's absolutely nothing enjoyable about the riffs. I'm actually offended by the lame synth sounds. The lyrics are just word salad, but they're in an arrangement to try to imply meaning that just isn't there. Vivian Campbell's solos and leads try to give the songs some excitement, but there's only so much a lead part can do with these plodding tracks. I'm three songs in and now I'm just fast forwarding to the solos. I remember these forgettable songs all too well. I'm gonna go listen to "Mob Rules" and try to forget them again.

Sorry Dio, your time with Sabbath was wonderful pretty damn good, but I just can't enjoy your solo records. NAF1138, I think you're just using your ears here.

Last edited by scabpicker; 05-28-2019 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Even Dio's tenure with Sabbath wasn't that great.
  #298  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:16 PM
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Yeah, don't take it too hard that you can't get into Dio's solo stuff. I listened to it at the time, and learned a bit of it to play in metal bands a the time, but I never go back and listen to it now. So, I'll go give it a listen, now...

(Listens to a couple of solo Dio songs to see why it never drew him back)

Wow, this is just the epitome of boring ass metal. When it's slow, it just plods. There's absolutely nothing enjoyable about the riffs. I'm actually offended by the lame synth sounds. The lyrics are just word salad, but they're in an arrangement to try to imply meaning that just isn't there. Vivian Campbell's solos and leads try to give the songs some excitement, but there's only so much a lead part can do with these plodding tracks. I'm three songs in and now I'm just fast forwarding to the solos. I remember these forgettable songs all too well. I'm gonna go listen to "Mob Rules" and try to forget them again.

Sorry Dio, your time with Sabbath was wonderful pretty damn good, but I just can't enjoy your solo records. NAF1138, I think you're just using your ears here.

I can not begin to tell you how happy this post made me. People love Dio so much that I felt like a jerk for not liking his stuff
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  #299  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF1138 View Post
I can not begin to tell you how happy this post made me. People love Dio so much that I felt like a jerk for not liking his stuff
Ronnie James Dio was a badass motherfucker. When Holy Diver cam out, we all glommed onto it because a) it was Ronnie James Dio, b) it didn't totally suck (i.e. it was definitely "metal" as we understood the term back then, c) the sword and sorcery imagery was cool, d) the lyrics seemed deep if you didn't listen too closely, and e) the phrase "holy diver" just sounds awesome.

I agree that by today's standards it is plodding & one-dimensional but the performances are all good, including RJD's vocals and it does have iconic status because it was his first solo album and, again, it didn't totally suck.
  #300  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:25 PM
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Hot damn. Just as I wrote about how Darkthrone doesn't work for me they release a new album that is fully awesome. Sort of a blackened Doom metal thing. I dig it. Not really Black Metal but not really not.
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