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  #251  
Old 01-29-2020, 11:36 AM
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CTV SciFi is definitely part of our package...has been since it was Space. (If it isn't in yours, though, it'll definitely go away by the time Picard ends...it ends at the end of the month, I'm pretty sure.)
  #252  
Old 01-30-2020, 12:46 PM
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Dudes that episode was mostly fantastic. I'm SO IN the Star Trek Online commercial almost had me booting up my old account....but then I remembered i was always terribly confused even when i was playing. A revisit would be a nightmare.
  #253  
Old 01-30-2020, 07:24 PM
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After the CBS All Access site thwarted my attempts to watch it, I saw it on YT under the title: Star Trek: Picard | Free Series Premiere Episode | CBS All Access
  #254  
Old 01-30-2020, 09:57 PM
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New one on this week as we speak, I believe.
  #255  
Old 01-31-2020, 12:29 PM
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Very much a fan of the Irish-Romulan housekeeper/ex-spy. I really didn't expect the phrase "cheeky feckers" to ever feature in Star Trek.
  #256  
Old 01-31-2020, 07:00 PM
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Very much a fan of the Irish-Romulan housekeeper/ex-spy. I really didn't expect the phrase "cheeky feckers" to ever feature in Star Trek.


Or “fucking hubris” either.
  #257  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:21 AM
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Or ďfucking hubrisĒ either.
That kind of pulled me out of the episode. I wasn't surprised to hear "shit" earlier in the episode, since they had used it in several of the movies, but that was new to me.
  #258  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:39 AM
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One thing that bugs me.

Data and Lore were the only successful positronic brain Android's in the TNG world. Then B4 gets created. Androids are unique and difficult to successfully build.

Trek Picard is set 20 years later. Now there's a lot of Androids? It seems unlikely the Technology could shift that quickly.

I guess we have to accept the premise. Still seems unlikely.
SPOILER:
Androids work on the Mars Federation shipyard until they revolt.

They were then banned in the Federation.

All this happens between TNG time and Trek Picard?


Last edited by aceplace57; 02-01-2020 at 03:43 AM.
  #259  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:16 AM
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What set Data/Lore apart wasn't their bodies, it was their sentience, and I don't thing the androids on Mars were supposed to be sentient. It certainly didn't look like they had positronic brains.
  #260  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:18 AM
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B4 was built before Data and Lore, and there was also Juliana Tainer.

It's been made pretty clear that the synths on Mars are very primitive compared to Data and Lore, and Agnes Jurati states more than once that Bruce Maddox was never able to duplicate Soong's work.
  #261  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:57 AM
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That kind of pulled me out of the episode. I wasn't surprised to hear "shit" earlier in the episode, since they had used it in several of the movies, but that was new to me.
You must not be watching STD, then.
  #262  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:11 AM
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Picard should track down Dhaj's "parents" (The namer of the flower should be findable) -- that has to be a clue.

Brian
  #263  
Old 02-01-2020, 11:16 AM
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B4 was built before Data and Lore, and there was also Juliana Tainer.

It's been made pretty clear that the synths on Mars are very primitive compared to Data and Lore, and Agnes Jurati states more than once that Bruce Maddox was never able to duplicate Soong's work.
I didn't understand that the Synths on Mars were primitive compared to Data.

That's more believable and true to canon.
  #264  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:18 PM
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What the ever-loving fuck was Lt Romulan Infiltrator's accent?
  #265  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:49 PM
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What the ever-loving fuck was Lt Romulan Infiltrator's accent?
She was going for a vaguely RP English accent to my ears. It wasn't noticeably bad or anything.
  #266  
Old 02-01-2020, 01:54 PM
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Nothing actually happened in this episode. Just a bunch of melodrama. What was the deal with the ominous music after it was revealed that the message came from off world?
  #267  
Old 02-01-2020, 02:50 PM
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So, Picard, in order to crew his corsair, instead of recruiting loyal men who presumably have lives and careers, picks Raffi who "hates him and has nothing to lose" as his first mate. But, why does she hate him and have nothing to lose? Did his resignation somehow torpedo her career in Starfleet? She may have been cashiered for substance abuse and therefore have nothing left to lose, but if that were it, why would she blame Picard?

As for the Federation's lack of good AI android technology, despite encountering and even developing it multiple times, apparently the current writers' explanation is that it was due to Romulan infiltrators all along....
  #268  
Old 02-01-2020, 05:39 PM
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What was the deal with the ominous music after it was revealed that the message came from off world?
I caught that, too: in Trek, that is like saying "We've traced the call--and it isn't coming from your house!"
  #269  
Old 02-01-2020, 09:56 PM
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Nothing actually happened in this episode. Just a bunch of melodrama. What was the deal with the ominous music after it was revealed that the message came from off world?
It means he's going to need a ship and a crew - and his first thought means he has to return to Star Fleet.

I was kinda hoping Vash would show up.
  #270  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:22 AM
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I think evil admirals and Starfleet conspiracies are quickly displacing time travel at the top of my "For fuck's sake, Star Trek, please stop doing this" list.

Last edited by zbuzz; 02-02-2020 at 02:23 AM. Reason: I didn't edit this post. It's a Starfleet conspiracy perpetrated by an evil admiral
  #271  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:39 AM
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OK but in the episode it was all Romulan spies and moles, there wasn't any home-grown Starfleet conspiracy revealed (yet). We don't know how evil the Romulans are, either; maybe in their eyes they are doing whatever it takes to protect the galaxy from killer androids or Necrons or whatever.
  #272  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:06 AM
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Starfleet Admirals have always been either incompetent or evil.
  #273  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:40 AM
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Starfleet Admirals have always been either incompetent or evil.
For fuck's sake, Star Trek, please stop doing this.
  #274  
Old 02-02-2020, 07:27 AM
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Surely there must have been some admirable admirals.
  #275  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:14 AM
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Surely there must have been some admirable admirals.
Uhhh.... yes... nope. Became evil.

I got nothing.

And o thought Commodores were so bad that the rank had been abolished
  #276  
Old 02-02-2020, 09:34 AM
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I watched the premier free on youtube and I liked it well enough I'd watch more, but not enough to pay for CBS all access.

I am astonished at how good Picard looks for his age (and Stewart, too of course!)
  #277  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:43 PM
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So, did anybody notice the 'this facility without assimilation incident for 5486 days' (or something like that) sign?

And I do hope we'll get some explanation as to why the Romulans are so rabidly anti-synthetic (they never seemed that concerned with Data).
  #278  
Old 02-02-2020, 12:59 PM
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Surely there must have been some admirable admirals.
Kirk was an admiral for a while, but they demoted him. Presumably for insufficient evil.
  #279  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:25 PM
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I watched the premier free on youtube and I liked it well enough I'd watch more, but not enough to pay for CBS all access.



I am astonished at how good Picard looks for his age (and Stewart, too of course!)


Just wait a couple months, get it for a month, watch the 10 episodes then cancel. I think a lot of people are wary of doing this due to past experiences of the nightmare of trying to cancel things, but canceling streaming tv subscriptions these days really is just clicking cancel and you’re done.
  #280  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:35 PM
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So, did anybody notice the 'this facility without assimilation incident for 5486 days' (or something like that) sign?
It was mentioned early in the thread when that shot showed up in the trailer.
  #281  
Old 02-02-2020, 03:42 PM
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Surely there must have been some admirable admirals.
Wasnít the *Admiral who, with Captain Sisko as his Chief of Staff, led the war against the Dominion a fairly descent guy? I donít recall if he lived through the final battle, but I donít recall him succumbing to any scandal.

*ETA: Admiral William Ross

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 02-02-2020 at 03:43 PM.
  #282  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:15 PM
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Wasnít the *Admiral who, with Captain Sisko as his Chief of Staff, led the war against the Dominion a fairly descent guy? I donít recall if he lived through the final battle, but I donít recall him succumbing to any scandal.

*ETA: Admiral William Ross
Nope. Assdeep in Section 31.

That probably however is the least of the sins of Admirals on Trek
  #283  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:24 PM
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Picard should track down Dhaj's "parents" (The namer of the flower should be findable) -- that has to be a clue.

Brian
Based on the way the video chat with mom went, it sure seems like she's just an implanted memory, with a phone number that connects to preprogrammed series of responses.

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I am astonished at how good Picard looks for his age (and Stewart, too of course!)
It's fun to compare to how he was portrayed in alternate future timelines during TNG!

https://www.instagram.com/p/B74H0xPg...=1ub2krf3m9zqx
  #284  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:48 PM
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Ohhh....that was Ann Magnusen as Admiral Fucking Hubris. From Making Mr.Right and briefly in The Hunger.
  #285  
Old 02-02-2020, 05:40 PM
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Fleet Admiral Hubris wasn't portrayed as entirely incompetent. She at least went through the motions of running Picard's story by the senior intel officer, who, unfortunately, happened to be a Romulan spy, but that's not her fault. Maybe she should have insisted Section 31 look into it, but I guess the point is that she was blinded by her hatred of Picard's guts.
  #286  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:47 AM
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Okay, so the first episode was available as a promo on YouTube, and I watched it. Conclusion? Eh, it’s not bad. I’d watch the next episode if it were on TV or some other no-fee streaming service, but I really don’t feel like paying a monthly bill just to see it.

I still don’t buy the world (the xenophobic Federation) but there’s enough of a foundation to build off of, I suppose.

ETA: Oh, and I like the use of tactical transporting. It’s good to see a sci-fi franchise embrace, even if still not fully, just a little bit more of the technology it’s established. Unlike say, Star Wars, where it seems that hyperspace projectiles should have been in use for ages, but they only just decided to apply the principle as a throwaway kamikaze tactic in one movie and then never again. Nope, I’m never gonna let that one go.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 02-03-2020 at 01:52 AM.
  #287  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:36 AM
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In the second episode they show transporter gates that people walk through without pausing, like a wormhole.
  #288  
Old 02-03-2020, 07:54 AM
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Fleet Admiral Hubris wasn't portrayed as entirely incompetent. She at least went through the motions of running Picard's story by the senior intel officer, who, unfortunately, happened to be a Romulan spy, but that's not her fault. Maybe she should have insisted Section 31 look into it, but I guess the point is that she was blinded by her hatred of Picard's guts.
As for being evil, she was apparently a proponent of cutting all the Romulan refugees loose, though certainly a bunch of politicians were behind that as well.
  #289  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:09 AM
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So far I'm liking it a lot. Probably mostly because of my emotional attachment to TNG and Picard himself, but that's enough. If I separated out that, it'd probably be just a decent start to a space opera show... but that's still a lot better than the start to most Star Trek shows.
  #290  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:18 AM
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Still enjoying it, although there are points when the writers get a little too clever and need a slap. Picard's comment about not "getting" science fiction was one of them - it was jarringly stupid and reminded me of this exchange from Firefly:

Wash: "Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction."
Zoe: "We live in a spaceship, dear."


Not liking science fiction is one thing, but a starship captain who had an android as a friend ought to damn well get science fiction. Knock it off, writers.

The other jarring point was the ridiculously clumsy flirtation at the end of episode one. If men are still using "That's a beautiful name" as a pickup line in the 24th century, we will have learned nothing (although it's still a step above Riker's "infinity never looked so beautiful").
  #291  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:05 AM
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Not liking science fiction is one thing, but a starship captain who had an android as a friend ought to damn well get science fiction. Knock it off, writers.
Not when--in his setting--he knows for a cold hard fact that 99.999% of it is wildly, hilariously inaccurate.
  #292  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:47 PM
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Okay, so the first episode was available as a promo on YouTube, and I watched it. Conclusion? Eh, it’s not bad. I’d watch the next episode if it were on TV or some other no-fee streaming service, but I really don’t feel like paying a monthly bill just to see it.

I still don’t buy the world (the xenophobic Federation) but there’s enough of a foundation to build off of, I suppose.

ETA: Oh, and I like the use of tactical transporting. It’s good to see a sci-fi franchise embrace, even if still not fully, just a little bit more of the technology it’s established. Unlike say, Star Wars, where it seems that hyperspace projectiles should have been in use for ages, but they only just decided to apply the principle as a throwaway kamikaze tactic in one movie and then never again. Nope, I’m never gonna let that one go.
The *only* perspective we've ever seen of the Feds being some advanced, progressive holy institute is through Jean-Luc Picard's eyes.

Everything else....Enterprise, DS9, ST: VI....shows otherwise. Even TOS when Kirk has a chance for peace and briefly finds himself arguing for the right to wage war.

Balance of Terror and Day of the Dove show feds exhibiting ugly bigotry.....yes in Day of the Dove they were being influenced but still. The Hate Entity was just fanning embers.

Last edited by Dale Sams; 02-03-2020 at 12:48 PM.
  #293  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:05 PM
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Fleet Admiral Hubris wasn't portrayed as entirely incompetent. She at least went through the motions of running Picard's story by the senior intel officer, who, unfortunately, happened to be a Romulan spy, but that's not her fault. Maybe she should have insisted Section 31 look into it, but I guess the point is that she was blinded by her hatred of Picard's guts.
Here's the thing about that scene. She's not wrong. Obviously she has some antipathy towards Picard, but that's not what I mean. Ignore her past personal feelings.

You're a senior admiral in Starfleet and some old fart who's been retired for two decades (and btw just shit all over you on the news) shows up with a crazy mission idea. And he sits in your office and tells you he'll "need" just a small warp capable ship!, and don't worry, just a handfull of Starfleet's finest young officers - you guys have a few spares, surely? Oh, and I understand if my being an admiral makes it totes awky. You can dEmOtE mE, wink-wink, c'est la vie!

Picard was an arrogant, head-up-his-ass, smarmy shitbag in that scene. Fucking hubris, amirite?

And if you don't believe me, just ask Sir Patrick. It's written all over his face. Because he's an excellent actor and he knows exactly what that scene really is. It's not about the admiral, it's about Picard getting a much-needed dose of humility.
  #294  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:14 PM
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The *only* perspective we've ever seen of the Feds being some advanced, progressive holy institute is through Jean-Luc Picard's eyes.

Everything else....Enterprise, DS9, ST: VI....shows otherwise. Even TOS when Kirk has a chance for peace and briefly finds himself arguing for the right to wage war.

Balance of Terror and Day of the Dove show feds exhibiting ugly bigotry.....yes in Day of the Dove they were being influenced but still. The Hate Entity was just fanning embers.
Now thatís a fair point, and I must admit my perception of the Federation is largely through the TNG lens, with that show as a "first run" series being one of my earliest TV viewing experiences (early model millennial, here). What with the franchise being both a product of and reaction to (sometimes progressively, sometimes regressively) its times, I suppose thereís just a chance that TNG was occasionally filtered through a Reagan-era "I donít see color" kind of lens, where maybe it shouldnít have been so dismissive of common human failings as potentially relevant to the future, even if not in the same way (eg: human fear of "the other" sees racism replaced by speciesism).
  #295  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:26 PM
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Here's the thing about that scene. She's not wrong. Obviously she has some antipathy towards Picard, but that's not what I mean. Ignore her past personal feelings.

You're a senior admiral in Starfleet and some old fart who's been retired for two decades (and btw just shit all over you on the news) shows up with a crazy mission idea. And he sits in your office and tells you he'll "need" just a small warp capable ship!, and don't worry, just a handfull of Starfleet's finest young officers - you guys have a few spares, surely? Oh, and I understand if my being an admiral makes it totes awky. You can dEmOtE mE, wink-wink, c'est la vie!

Picard was an arrogant, head-up-his-ass, smarmy shitbag in that scene. Fucking hubris, amirite?

And if you don't believe me, just ask Sir Patrick. It's written all over his face. Because he's an excellent actor and he knows exactly what that scene really is. It's not about the admiral, it's about Picard getting a much-needed dose of humility.
And how does he react?? He "sort of" threatens her!! Said something about peril and you're going to pay for this. I know what he meant but she sure could have taken that the wrong way. MAN....that scene was so brilliant. Both actors.
  #296  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:39 PM
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Not liking science fiction is one thing, but a starship captain who had an android as a friend ought to damn well get science fiction.
What? No, that's absurd.

That's exactly like saying that people who live now would all get science fiction. There are things, now, that were science fictional within living memory. Yet, still, there are people who don't 'get' science fiction - hell, the 'we're living in a world that would once have been science fiction' contributes. To the extent that SF authors 'predict', they've been wrong more than they've been right, which tends to render the older stuff absurd to people who aren't inclined to properly contextualize it. The book that prompted the exchange is a great example - Asimov's robot series posited fully sapient robots being commonplace before humanity left the solar system. By Picard's time, the opposite is true - interstellar travel is an everyday thing, but there've only been a handful of sapient androids, a fact driven home by the fact that one of them was his good friend. The book is, according to his own experience, ridiculous. He can, of course, intellectually acknowledge that the book came out before either of them were possible, but that's not the same as actually 'getting' it.

Wash was right.
  #297  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:59 PM
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So if Picard doesn't "get" science fiction, then why is part of his limited shelf space occupied by a copy of "I, Robot"? Why does he even own a hardback copy of it? My guess is that it was a gift which he keeps for sentimental reasons, not for the content. And the most likely gift-giver would be Commander Data, perhaps even as a sort of experiment in humor.

I imagine the title page is signed "I, Data".
  #298  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:34 PM
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So, did anybody notice the 'this facility without assimilation incident for 5486 days' (or something like that) sign?
Apparently it was 5843 days, which is just over 16 years.

Which is rather interesting, because if Picard is set in 2399, and the Romulan supernova occurred in 2387, that means the Borg cube was captured (or salvaged) several years before the supernova.

Then again, maybe it means nothing, because an Earth year is probably not 365 Romulan days...
  #299  
Old 02-03-2020, 03:29 PM
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Apparently it was 5843 days, which is just over 16 years.

Which is rather interesting, because if Picard is set in 2399, and the Romulan supernova occurred in 2387, that means the Borg cube was captured (or salvaged) several years before the supernova.

Then again, maybe it means nothing, because an Earth year is probably not 365 Romulan days...
I assumed that the cube was from the Battle @ Wolf 359. (2367)

If memory serves - the First Contact cube (Battle @ Sector 001 - 2373) was destroyed.

Last edited by simster; 02-03-2020 at 03:30 PM.
  #300  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:04 PM
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So if Picard doesn't "get" science fiction, then why is part of his limited shelf space occupied by a copy of "I, Robot"? Why does he even own a hardback copy of it? My guess is that it was a gift which he keeps for sentimental reasons, not for the content. And the most likely gift-giver would be Commander Data, perhaps even as a sort of experiment in humor.
That seems the most likely possibility to me, too.

Option 2 is he inherited a collection (from his brother, perhaps*) and couldn't bear to break it up.

* Presumably, if this is case, kept safe by Marie between when Robert died and when Jean-Luc retired. In this case, keeping the collection together would have the same sort of sentimental reasons for keeping the book if it were a present from Data.
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