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Old 01-13-2020, 10:45 AM
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A Brief Tribute to Law & Order


I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows.

For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe's TV show, "Law & Order". For some reason, I don't seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I've ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen.

If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT!

I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don't see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them.

I'd like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show?

If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them.

Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-13-2020 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:16 PM
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I used to love Law and Order, though my favorite era was when Briscoe and Logan were the two cops (which looks like seasons 3-5 according to the wiki list). What I always liked was that the show felt very real - while it was certianly written to be an interesting hour long TV show, they'd have to deal with things like having to get warrants, the trial not going according to plan, and the like. At the point I lost interest I remember feeling like they had started to go for more 'sensational' over 'realistic', but I also might just have lost interest over time since the show ran for so long. I was never a huge fan of the spinoffs. SVU seemed to ditch the realism and focus on sensationalism, and I don't really get Ice T as an actor. Criminal Intent also ditched the realistic format and was more of a showcase for the lead actor to perform, they were much bigger on doing psychological tricks to pull out the confession at the end which almost always wrapped up the case without a trial. I liked CI for a while, but not as much as the main series, and lost interest in it quicker.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:29 PM
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It recently occured to me part of the reason for the longevity of the L&O franchises. Each episode has victims, witnesses, defence attorneys, and people standing or walking around. So there are a lot of actors getting work.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:36 PM
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I remember reading an article about the original Law & Order. At the time it premiered, most syndicated shows were half-hour sitcoms. So the episodes were structured so that the police investigation bit took just over half the run time, while the courtroom bit took a little less than half. The idea was that the episodes could be broken in two to run in two half-hour segments, leaving a little time at the beginning of the second episode for a recap.

I liked it much more than the other shows in the franchise, although at one point BBC America aired the UK version of the original show and that was fun to watch, just for the differences in police and courtroom procedure.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:40 PM
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For some reason, I don't seem to enjoy the first five seasons.
That's easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5.

Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:21 PM
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That's easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5.

Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show.
Yeah. I'll watch the pre-McCoy seasons, but not the pre-Lenny ones.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:38 PM
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That's easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5.

Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show.
I must agree about Lenny. Jerry Orbach was terrific in that role and it's not really about his skill as an actor. I've posted many times how all the best actors seem to be divided into two catetories.

The first category are highly skilled actors - like Meryl Streep, Lawrence Olivier, Anthony Hopkins, Brando and others. IMHO, these people are like chameleons. They have the ability to take on the cloak of most any different characters - all of whom have highly diff personalities. They are highly skilled actors. I enjoy watching them because it is so amazing to see how they transform themselves into completely diff people in any new project. Just remember Meryl Streep and how she played that Polish lady in Sophie's Choice and then how she played the boss of that big magazine in The Devil Wears Prada.

The second category are people who are very enjoyable to watch - regardless of what character they play. People like Jack Nicholson always seem to just play themselves. They almost never try to act like anyone else.

Well, Jerry Orbach seems to me to be in the second category. I have never seen him act like anyone else besides Jerry Orbach. But that never mattered because no matter what char he plays, I have always found watching him to be a real delight. What a great actor he was!

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-13-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:43 PM
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Well, Jerry Orbach seems to me to be in the second category. I have never seen him act like anyone else besides Jerry Orbach. But that never mattered because no matter what char he plays, I have always found watching him to be a real delight. What a great actor he was!
Jerry Orbach had some range - from say here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIg36nT8Now

to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvq6NI8CNZU

He just seemed so natural as Lenny, though.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:48 PM
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More about Jerry Orbach. It seems to me that one of an actor's greatest skills is the ability to make themselves disappear in a role.

Do you remember Jerry Orbach in "Dirty Dancing"? If not, I think that is very understandable. He just kind of disappears into the role of Baby's father. You may think I'm trying to be a wise guy. But just ask yourself how would you go about acting as a character if your goal was to become invisible? IMO, that is not an easy job. Not easy by any stretch at all.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:57 PM
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If I recall correctly, Orbach was a song and dance man who got his breaks in The Fantasticks back in the early 1960s, so I go with item 1 on Charlie's list... though Orbach may have decided that "playing himself" was just easier as he got older.

Last edited by JohnT; 01-13-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:22 PM
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I'd just like to note that for 30 years I've been slightly annoyed by the show's credit sequence that suggested the cops were "Law" and the district attorneys were "Order". It should have been the other way around.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:24 PM
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I'd just like to note that for 30 years I've been slightly annoyed by the show's credit sequence that suggested the cops were "Law" and the district attorneys were "Order". It should have been the other way around.
Friends:
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Rachel: No because first they arrest the guy and then they try him.

Phoebe: Don't get me started on that.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:34 PM
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Fantastic show, nearly every episode rewatchable.

Never understood the love for McCoy.

Always surprised Ben Stone doesn't get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show.

Liked the Lupo/Bernard detective pairing a lot. Would have watched them on other shows.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:35 PM
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I always liked the L&O UK series, especially with how they incorporated the British CCTV everywhere into old US episodes. But I can't find them any more without paying.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:11 PM
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Never understood the love for McCoy.
I think part of the fun is watching him stretch the law as needed to make his case work.

Although I will admit, rewatching the show now that I'm older with more liberal sensibilities has made me raise my eyebrow more than once.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:14 PM
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Yeah. I'll watch the pre-McCoy seasons, but not the pre-Lenny ones.
To paraphrase Cotton Hill, "Aw, Cerreta? That's like gettin' a Shemp."
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:37 PM
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Always surprised Ben Stone doesn't get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show.
I have frequently wished for Ben Stone's ability to make the word "Sir" sound like the most contemptuous insult imaginable.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:13 PM
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Always surprised Ben Stone doesn't get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show.
Yeah, he was really good during the time that he was on the show. From reports at the time, it sounds like the actor started having significant person problems, then burned his bridges with the production crew, which is too bad.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:27 PM
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I have the complete set of the original 'Law and Order' and have really enjoyed watching the whole thing a couple of times.
Clever format, good writing, believable performances.

I also liked most of 'Law and Order: Criminal Intent', because Vincent D'Onofrio really threw himself into the part (a Sherlock Holmes type...)
I was happy when Chris Noth joined the cast (with several partners) and later Jeff Goldblum - but around this time the writers started (in my opinion) putting Vincent D'Onofrio into ridiculous situations.

'Law and Order: Special Victims Unit' was fine in terms of production, acting etc - but I found the story-lines harrowing, so stopped watching it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:11 PM
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I have frequently wished for Ben Stone's ability to make the word "Sir" sound like the most contemptuous insult imaginable.
Word.

I strongly prefer Stone to MCoy. Season 4 was the best cast, IMHO
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:49 PM
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That's easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5.

Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show.
Nobody could deliver a wisecrack like Lennie Briscoe.

There's still one early episode I want to see, but haven't; Everybody's Favorite Bagman. I think it was the original pilot; filmed well before any more episodes and rather different stylistically. And has a rare on-screen appearance by Steven Zirnkilton, who does the opening narration on all the L&O shows. I have seen early episodes with S. Epatha Merkerson as the mother of a young shooting victim, and another with Jerry Orbach as a defense attorney.

It's quite amazing how often I recognize an actor, look them up on IMDb, and then discover that I know them from another episode of Law & Order. There was one episode with a dominatrix who looked very familiar. I looked up the actress, Frances Conroy, and figured out that I'd seen her in another episode as a very devout nun.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:39 AM
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I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show.

TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played.

He played the part of a short kind of "creepy" guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I'm so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy's name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed?

I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-14-2020 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:05 AM
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I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show.

TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played.

He played the part of a short kind of "creepy" guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I'm so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy's name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed?
Sounds like Randy Dworkin. According to IMDb, the character appeared 3 times on the original series, and once on SVU.

Quote:
I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was.
Played by Peter Jacobson, who was Dr. Taub for five seasons on House.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:07 AM
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I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show.

TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played.

He played the part of a short kind of "creepy" guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I'm so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy's name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed?

I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was.
Peter Jacobson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jacobson - he was also a regular in the later seasons of House

Not the same guy as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Rubinek, but I've made that mistake before.

ETA and now I see I was ninja'd

Last edited by Andy L; 01-14-2020 at 08:07 AM. Reason: ninja'd
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:19 AM
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Sounds like Randy Dworkin. According to IMDb, the character appeared 3 times on the original series, and once on SVU.

Played by Peter Jacobson, who was Dr. Taub for five seasons on House.
Thank you very much.

I wanted to thank AndyL as well. I tried to use Multii-Quote but failed.
Oh well. I suppose that learning how to use Multi-Quote will be my project for the day.

It's nice to learn something new every day.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-14-2020 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:31 AM
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For anyone else who wants to know how to use Multi-Quote, I Googled, "Straight Dope how to use multi-quote" and I got the following link:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=851720

Here is what it says:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucas Jackson said: "While Multi Quote is underlined, giving the impression that clicking it would invoke it, it doesn't work like that. Instead, click the icon to its left, and do that with all the other posts you want to quote. When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected."


CrowManyClouds then added:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson View Post
See title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
{...} When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected.
Then, if you want to nest them,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson View Post
See title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
{...} When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected.
move all the {/QUOTE} to the end. (This keeps all the "Originally Posted by" with the actual quote text. Also, this is when preview is your bestest friend! 'Cause this is really, really, easy to screw up.)

CMC fnord!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must admit that I still can't figure it out.

Last edited by Charlie Wayne; 01-14-2020 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:42 AM
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Thank you very much.

I wanted to thank AndyL as well. I tried to use Multii-Quote but failed.
Oh well. I suppose that learning how to use Multi-Quote will be my project for the day.

It's nice to learn something new every day.
You're welcome.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:01 AM
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If you don't enjoy the comedy team of Finn & Munch, I don't want to know you. They turn LAW & Order: SVU into a comedy gold mine.

Yes, Jerry Orbach was a really fine theatre song and dance man in his prime. When he first staring auditioning for tough guy roles, the reaction was "What? That guy play a tough guy?" He broke through in Prince of the City, and eventually he go to be "What? That tough guy was a song and dance man?"

Last edited by Annie-Xmas; 01-14-2020 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:21 PM
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If you don't enjoy the comedy team of Finn & Munch, I don't want to know you. They turn LAW & Order: SVU into a comedy gold mine.

Yes, Jerry Orbach was a really fine theatre song and dance man in his prime. When he first staring auditioning for tough guy roles, the reaction was "What? That guy play a tough guy?" He broke through in Prince of the City, and eventually he go to be "What? That tough guy was a song and dance man?"
Yeah, Finn & Munch I loved. I got a little disappointed when Munch 'retired' from the show.

Orbach, of course, was amazing.

I've loved L&O for a long time, and used to love SVU. Because the first five seasons are now available on Amazon, I started a re-watch and...

...eccccch....

There's a -whole- lot of dialogue and plots revolving around "Well, the rape victim is obviously lying." And that gets -real- uncomfortable, as well as the presence of a small but visible amount of 'she was asking for it, wasn't she?' plotlines. :/
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:44 PM
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I appreciated that it wasn't a given that they'd always "win."

Their clearance rate was certainly WAY above average for real NYC, but the fact that they ever lost at all was fairly innovative, and it created an atmosphere where you couldn't expect the prosecution to win every single time, which was the standard format for court shows since forever; a TV lawyer on a scripted court show losing a case was almost treated as a "special episode" (in 9 seasons Perry Mason lost exactly 3 cases). At least one season of L&O, their success rate was under 60% (season 4). The season with the highest success rate (95%) was also their lowest ever rated season (season 17).

cite: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ers-124026578/
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:07 PM
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After Lenny Briscoe, I wanted to see Logan and Green team up. A really kick-ass team!
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:33 PM
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There's still one early episode I want to see, but haven't; Everybody's Favorite Bagman. I think it was the original pilot; filmed well before any more episodes and rather different stylistically.
Yes, that was indeed the original pilot. It actually appeared as episode 6 in the first season.
It's quite good, but is clearly a pilot (introducing characters etc.)
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:42 PM
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Elisabeth Rohm is the worst actor in the entire franchise. Period. Or pretty much any franchise. There are KFC cooks who can act better than her.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:55 PM
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Is that because she (or actually her character) was a lesbian? This was notoriously introduced at the very end of the episode in which her character was being fired.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:03 PM
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I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows.

For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe's TV show, "Law & Order". For some reason, I don't seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I've ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen.

If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT!

I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don't see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them.

I'd like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show?

If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them.

Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions.
Another Dick Wolfe show I like is Chicago PD. It’s not as ‘realistic’ as Law and Order but still enjoyable. The problem with that show is that it doesn’t have the bottomless well of episodes so they keep playing the same 5-6 seasons over and over. You also might like The Wire.

My favorite Criminal Intent episodes are Goren + Eames + Deakins (Jamie Sheridan) so that would be seasons 1-5. After that they’re still good but can try to be a bit too cinematic. There’s nothing to not like about Julianne Nicholson and Annabella Sciorra. The only thing that really rankled me about the later episodes is Jeff Goldblum playing the piano.

I liked watching SVU for a while but they became too preachy and pedantic, like when they’re sitting around reciting crime stats to each other. Still go in a pinch though.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:31 PM
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I appreciated that it wasn't a given that they'd always "win."

Their clearance rate was certainly WAY above average for real NYC, but the fact that they ever lost at all was fairly innovative, and it created an atmosphere where you couldn't expect the prosecution to win every single time, which was the standard format for court shows since forever; a TV lawyer on a scripted court show losing a case was almost treated as a "special episode" (in 9 seasons Perry Mason lost exactly 3 cases). At least one season of L&O, their success rate was under 60% (season 4). The season with the highest success rate (95%) was also their lowest ever rated season (season 17).

cite: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ers-124026578/
Reminds me much of the old 'Dragnet' radio program. I understand the television show was different, but very often in Dragnet the police wouldn't end up making the case. Now, due to the era, there were rules about making sure 'crime didn't pay', but often as not the show would cap with Friday talking about how they didn't catch the guy, but a few months later the criminal got caught trying some other crime in another county, or got found dead at a traffic accident. The criminal wouldn't get away with it, but it wasn't always, or even commonly, Joe and his partner making the case. Seemed more 'honest' that way.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Elisabeth Rohm is the worst actor in the entire franchise. Period. Or pretty much any franchise. There are KFC cooks who can act better than her.
I was watching a rare episode I either missed in its original run or only saw once and completely forgot and she was distractingly bad. You can see it sometimes on the faces of the actors in her scenes. No matter how good they are, a brief moment of confusion passes over their face and then they read their lines.

Anyway, I love the series and still watch it and I still get mad at NBC for canceling it. I watched the first season of SVU and hated it. I watched CI and I mostly enjoyed it, despite it being wildly different in tone and style from time to time. I didn't mind the LA one, but that got canceled quick and I don't think I ever saw any of the other versions. My true favorite "spin off" is "Basic Lupine Urology" from Community.

I don't love the first few seasons, but I liked Paul and the two cops and early Claire. I am more likely to watch something else if that's the block on WETV on the weekends. I don't like the guy who took over as ADA when Jack when full DA. And most of all I hate the episode where it turns out he's maybe not really a lawyer and that episode seems to be in the heaviest rotation. His accent is terrible and distracting, but I'd rather watch him all day every day than one Rohm episode.
  #38  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:50 PM
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Watching Law & Order is my happy place. I have found that almost any difficult situation can be made better with Law & Order episodes. I find it especially soothing on long airplane flights and during dental cleanings (I bring my portable DVD player and some earphones and I barely notice what's happening to my teeth).
  #39  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:57 PM
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I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows.

For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe's TV show, "Law & Order". For some reason, I don't seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I've ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen.

If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT!

I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don't see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them.

I'd like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show?

If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them.

Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions.
Fully agreed!
  #40  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:45 PM
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Nobody could deliver a wisecrack like Lennie Briscoe.

......
I was just watching an episode from Season 7 and saw a perfect example of that.

Lennie said words to the effect, "I really felt bad about that. My sleep will be disturbed for minutes."

I actually LOL'd. I almost never do that when watching this show.
  #41  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:51 PM
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I was watching a rare episode I either missed in its original run or only saw once and completely forgot and she was distractingly bad. You can see it sometimes on the faces of the actors in her scenes. No matter how good they are, a brief moment of confusion passes over their face and then they read their lines.

Anyway, I love the series and still watch it and I still get mad at NBC for canceling it. I watched the first season of SVU and hated it. I watched CI and I mostly enjoyed it, despite it being wildly different in tone and style from time to time. I didn't mind the LA one, but that got canceled quick and I don't think I ever saw any of the other versions. My true favorite "spin off" is "Basic Lupine Urology" from Community.

I don't love the first few seasons, but I liked Paul and the two cops and early Claire. I am more likely to watch something else if that's the block on WETV on the weekends. I don't like the guy who took over as ADA when Jack when full DA. And most of all I hate the episode where it turns out he's maybe not really a lawyer and that episode seems to be in the heaviest rotation. His accent is terrible and distracting, but I'd rather watch him all day every day than one Rohm episode.
Judging from your post, I just get the feeling there is one movie that I think you might really enjoy.

As a matter of fact, I think most everyone in this thread would enjoy it. I loved it.

Fracture (2007) - starring Anthony Hopkins and Ryan Gosling.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0488120/

This was the film that made me realize just how great Ryan Gosling was.

But the best thing about this film is the terrific legal story and the twists and turns. Also Rosamund Pike was terrific in this one.
  #42  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:57 PM
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I dont know if its still around but one of the tv boards used to have a "repeat offenders " list of everyone who'd guested and L&O more than once and who tye played each time

actually, he claimed all he did for L&o was play a more serious version of a character hed played on murder she wrote and even had an ill-fated spin-off that lasted maybe 3 episodes .....

supposedly the character was supposed to be more serious but he lightened it up because MSW wasn't a "hard" toned show
  #43  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:12 PM
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After Lenny Briscoe, I wanted to see Logan and Green team up. A really kick-ass team!
For a show that had so little to do with the characters personal lives, I always notice the episodes that are the first or last appearance of a long-running character, or when a departed character is referenced. I read somewhere that there were three references to Briscoe's death, once by each of his partners. Green and Curtis (in town for his wife's funeral) mention it on L&O, and apparently Logan says it once on CI, but I haven't seen that. I think it was also mentioned once that after retirement Lennie would go to the opera with Dr. Rogers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I was just watching an episode from Season 7 and saw a perfect example of that.

Lennie said words to the effect, "I really felt bad about that. My sleep will be disturbed for minutes."

I actually LOL'd. I almost never do that when watching this show.
The best ever was when Briscoe and Curtis are at the home of an elderly man who's been murdered. They see a picture of the victim with a young woman in a wedding dress and disagree whether she's his wife or his granddaughter. They wager a hot pastrami sandwich from the Carnegie Deli. When she arrives and says she's his wife, Curtis tells her that her husband is dead. Then Lennie leans over to him and says "extra mustard, and don't trim the fat."
  #44  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:13 AM
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For a show that had so little to do with the characters personal lives, I always notice the episodes that are the first or last appearance of a long-running character, or when a departed character is referenced. I read somewhere that there were three references to Briscoe's death, once by each of his partners. Green and Curtis (in town for his wife's funeral) mention it on L&O, and apparently Logan says it once on CI, but I haven't seen that. I think it was also mentioned once that after retirement Lennie would go to the opera with Dr. Rogers.

The best ever was when Briscoe and Curtis are at the home of an elderly man who's been murdered. They see a picture of the victim with a young woman in a wedding dress and disagree whether she's his wife or his granddaughter. They wager a hot pastrami sandwich from the Carnegie Deli. When she arrives and says she's his wife, Curtis tells her that her husband is dead. Then Lennie leans over to him and says "extra mustard, and don't trim the fat."
I remember that episode well. It was one of the very best. A former stripper aged 22 married a wealthy 74 year old man. The young girl has a mother who looked remarkably like her daughter. The best line of that show came at the very end when the mother was busted for the murder and she looks at her daughter who had set her up and says, "You are just as dumb as a bag of hair!"

I had never heard that before and thought it was just great.
  #45  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:27 AM
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One of my favorite Briscoe moments was as follows. Lennie and his partner go to a businessman's office to place him under arrest. When they walk in, the suspect is talking on the phone. Lennie grabs the handset out of the businessman's hand and says into the mouthpiece, "He'll call you back in 25 years!"
  #46  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:17 PM
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As A New Hampshirite, I always laugh when Lennie's quipped "New Hampshire? I spent a year there one weekend." after hearing a suspect visited my state.

Also I remember when they were investigating a murder in a dive hotel, one of the cops asked if the room has been cleaned and the hotel owner replied, "Not since 1957."

After finding a body in a store dressing room, Briscoe---"Well it finally happened. She shopped til she dropped."

A crime scene tech gives Brisco a cane and tells hims he's looking for a suspect with a limp. The ME examining tells Lenny the victim had a bad knees and the cane belonged to her. Briscoe---"That's the problem with crime scene guys; they all think there cops." (An obvious jab at CSI)
  #47  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:32 PM
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One of my favorite Briscoe moments was as follows. Lennie and his partner go to a businessman's office to place him under arrest. When they walk in, the suspect is talking on the phone. Lennie grabs the handset out of the businessman's hand and says into the mouthpiece, "He'll call you back in 25 years!"
I always liked, "They'll be growing tomatoes on Mars by the time you get out of jail." Also: "My fourth wife used to say I drink too much."
  #48  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:16 PM
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I can't believe I forgot to mention how much I loved (at the time) the Homicide crossover episodes. The characters, especially Briscoe and Munch, had such great chemistry. I said at the time because now those episodes are skipped in reruns or just the L&O parts are shown.

And my favorite L&O joke on 30 Rock

Quote:

Jack: I would point to, um… Sunday Night Football which features many black players and coaches, oh and uh, we have Anthony Anderson, the star of Law and Order, which is entering its twenty first —

Jonathan
[whispers in Jack’s ear]

Jack
[whispering] What? Why did we cancel that? That doesn’t make any sense!
I was still salty about the cancellation and that joke just burned my soul.
  #49  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Wayne View Post
I remember that episode well. It was one of the very best. A former stripper aged 22 married a wealthy 74 year old man. The young girl has a mother who looked remarkably like her daughter. The best line of that show came at the very end when the mother was busted for the murder and she looks at her daughter who had set her up and says, "You are just as dumb as a bag of hair!"

I had never heard that before and thought it was just great.
Also gave us the line, "Are we gonna be the 'Dancing Naked Idiot Family'?"

Hilarious!
  #50  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:19 PM
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Elisabeth Rohm is the worst actor in the entire franchise. Period. Or pretty much any franchise. There are KFC cooks who can act better than her.
Did you guys watch The Last Ship? She was in Season 4, and what happened to her in the end was verrrry satisfying. It didn’t make up for all the pain she inflicted during her stint on L&O, but it helped.
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