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Old 02-01-2020, 12:26 AM
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Bojack Horseman, S6 pt 2


Anybody had a chance to watch this yet? I thought the last eight episodes, especially the second to last one, were phenomenal. I have never been much of a fan on animated television, but this series is the exception and I am going to miss its troubled struggling characters very much.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:03 AM
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Finished it 5 minutes ago. Loved it. Probably the most emotionally affecting media I've watched in... well, a long time.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:06 PM
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Every character is evolving. The drugs and drink might have stifled Bojack for a while while, but the repercussions of his actions eventually force him to change. The witty dialog, the seemingly limitless sight gags, and surreal cartoon background work somehow to make the show more authentically human -- even when many of the characters are not. The rest of the world may seem absurd, but it is really made up of complex people with their own struggles, background, weaknesses and strengths.

Years and years ago I got a fortune cookie message that said "Life is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those that feel." This show is that cookie.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:04 PM
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That was mostly very depressing but still satisfying ending.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:17 PM
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That was mostly very depressing but still satisfying ending.
We all gotta go through the door.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:33 PM
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We all gotta go through the door.
What is this--a crossover episode? (though The Good Place's door is a very different door.)

Last edited by Scribble; 02-01-2020 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 02-02-2020, 12:30 AM
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What is this--a crossover episode? (though The Good Place's door is a very different door.)
Lifes's a bitch, but sometimes you keep living.
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Old 02-02-2020, 10:56 AM
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I’ve finished the last episode, and I’m still processing. Overall, I loved it. Unlike most, I thought the penultimate episode was a little too much, the writers and animators trying to show off and match episodes like “time’s arrow”. Even so, Secretariat’s poem really shook me. Anjelica Huston did an amazing job, really, such a minor character brought to life brilliantly- apparently I’m haven’t had my fill of self-loathing alcoholics, because I would love a series about her. The ending was more or less what I expected, with Bojack counting his losses and moving forward to an uncertain future.
That said, I have some questions- First, we see Bojack with a water bottle in a few episodes, especially after his interview. Is this a sign that he’s still sober, or that he’s not? (The old rehab trick)
Second, when Vanessa buys his share of “Horsin’ Around” is she bluffing him again? I kind of figured that she was, but maybe not.
Last, is Mister Peanutbutter the worst? My God, bringing Bojack- on furlough from prison- to the observatory, when he knows there will be press there- The writers really wanted to remind us that he’s just as self centered and selfish as Bojack but in a completely different way.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:21 AM
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First, we see Bojack with a water bottle in a few episodes, especially after his interview. Is this a sign that he’s still sober, or that he’s not? (The old rehab trick)
When he was sober it was a sign that he was sober, when he relapsed it was the old rehab trick. He didn't relapse until reading Hollyhock's letter.

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Second, when Vanessa buys his share of “Horsin’ Around” is she bluffing him again? I kind of figured that she was, but maybe not.
Bluffing about what? not sure i understand.

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Last, is Mister Peanutbutter the worst? My God, bringing Bojack- on furlough from prison- to the observatory, when he knows there will be press there- The writers really wanted to remind us that he’s just as self centered and selfish as Bojack but in a completely different way.
I wouldn't say "the worst", but he is pretty clueless. He was also the one who spilled the beans to the reporters about BJ being there when Sarah Lynn died.

Last edited by DigitalC; 02-02-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:39 AM
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Bluffing with the whole thing about the show being radioactive and thus worthless to Bojack. She either was telling the truth, and he was getting a deal on a share of something soon to be worthless to him, or she knew that people have short memories and she was bluffing him into signing away a fortune. Given her history, I’m guessing it was the latter.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:47 AM
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I think everything about Hollywoo(b?) was shown to be fake and a bluff.
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Old 02-02-2020, 11:53 AM
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I don't think she was bluffing, the show was probably as toxic as the Cosby Show is now. Also after that episode none of the last 3 episodes ended with the regular song so we never got "back in the 90s i was in very famous TV show" again.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:21 PM
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I don't think she was bluffing, the show was probably as toxic as the Cosby Show is now. Also after that episode none of the last 3 episodes ended with the regular song so we never got "back in the 90s i was in very famous TV show" again.
I didn't notice that. Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2020, 01:47 PM
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Just powered through the last of them. Fitting end to a brilliant show IMHO.

I've been reading that some folks would have preferred the penultimate episode as a finale, sort of a( very slightly )ambiguous Sopranos ending. But I think BoJack evolved into an ensemble of sorts, as I think better shows tend to do, and the other main characters deserved their little healing moments in the sun. Just killing BoJack I think would in some ways have been crueler to them. Especially Diane who more than deserves to be able to walk away on her own terms.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-03-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:40 PM
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I've been reading that some folks would have preferred the penultimate episode as a finale, sort of a( very slightly )ambiguous Sopranos ending. But I think BoJack evolved into an ensemble of sorts, as I think better shows tend to do, and the other main characters deserved their little healing moments in the sun. Just killing BoJack I think would in some ways have been crueler to them. Especially Diane who more than deserves to be able to walk away on her own terms.
I agree, ending on episode 15 would have destroyed Dianne and Hollyhock both and severely hurt PC and Todd. It would be pretty dire to end the show with Bojack once again taking the easy way out while hurting everyone around him.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:37 PM
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Unlike most, I thought the penultimate episode was a little too much, the writers and animators trying to show off and match episodes like “time’s arrow”. Even so, Secretariat’s poem really shook me.
Same here. I thought it was horribly self-indulgent (like the worst of the Madmen 'dream' episodes) until...I think after Sarah Lynn's song. Then it got me--especially the poem. THAT POEM... Christ...


I am shocked that everyone got a happy ending---even Bojack's ending is promising. The show does have a complicated message...Bojack is horrible and is somehow always going to be 'fine.' Horny Unicorn will be a hit and Bojack will be back on top. It's Todd's always "falling up" storyline....just more real. So what are we to make of him as a character?
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:42 PM
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I don't think Bojack has a happy ending.

The most important person in his life is cutting him out of hers. His sister also doesn't want anything to do with him. PC is reducing her involvement with him. I think he'll continue to have decent, or maybe even better, relationships with Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter, but do you really see him being happy and at peace with himself? I sure don't.

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Old 02-05-2020, 01:46 PM
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I don't think Bojack has a happy ending.

The most important person in his life is cutting him out of hers. His sister also doesn't want anything to do with him. PC is reducing her involvement with him. I think he'll continue to have decent, or maybe even better, relationships with Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter, but do you really see him being happy and at peace with himself? I sure don't.
He's literally staring up at the stars with a content look on his face. He has a movie coming out that is expected to be a hit and has settled things with a lot of the people he's closest too. He has a happy ending.
A big part of the show is going over how that will never be a default for his life (or any of their lives) but for then... at the END of the show...he has a happy ending.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:59 PM
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He's literally staring up at the stars with a content look on his face. He has a movie coming out that is expected to be a hit and has settled things with a lot of the people he's closest too. He has a happy ending.
A big part of the show is going over how that will never be a default for his life (or any of their lives) but for then... at the END of the show...he has a happy ending.
The contented look will probably not last. The show does offer hope, but only in the moment.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:20 PM
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He's literally staring up at the stars with a content look on his face. He has a movie coming out that is expected to be a hit and has settled things with a lot of the people he's closest too. He has a happy ending.
A big part of the show is going over how that will never be a default for his life (or any of their lives) but for then... at the END of the show...he has a happy ending.

I'll have to rewatch, but I didn't read his look as "content." I think he was resigned and trying to make the most of it in the moment. He clearly wants Diane in his life and she's breaking him off. Hard to spin that as happy. Ditto Hollyhock.

Horsing Around, Secretariat, and Philbert were all big hits. Was he happy then?

Even if you assume he's happy in the 2 minutes before the cameras roll, hard disagree that that constitutes a happy ending. If the credits roll in the middle of a person shooting up heroin, that's a happy ending just because they have a smile on their face?

At best it's a bittersweet ending, not a happy one.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:36 PM
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…..FFS guys...
Fine... He gets a shitty ending. ::shrug:: Not even a promising ending....like I said.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:45 PM
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The second to last episode was the best one of the series I believe. 'Bojack, no, there is no other side' was a really powerful message in line with the series.


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Last, is Mister Peanutbutter the worst? My God, bringing Bojack- on furlough from prison- to the observatory, when he knows there will be press there- The writers really wanted to remind us that he’s just as self centered and selfish as Bojack but in a completely different way.
I don't think Mr. PB is a bad person, just extremely self absorbed to the point where he doesn't really understand what affect he has on others. Kind of like BoJack in that regards.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:45 PM
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Bittersweet is the best possible word to describe the ending. Bojack has been completely miserable his entire life, his state at the end is if anything a slight improvement over the rest of his life. But he also lost Hollyhock and Dianne and PC has moved on with her life. He is also in actual super max prison and lost his entire live's work.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:52 PM
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I'll have to rewatch, but I didn't read his look as "content." I think he was resigned and trying to make the most of it in the moment. He clearly wants Diane in his life and she's breaking him off. Hard to spin that as happy. Ditto Hollyhock.

At best it's a bittersweet ending, not a happy one.
Agreed - he doesn't look content to me. Resigned and a little uncomfortable, maybe. But I don't see happiness there. A continued career and a comfortable life he may have and maybe he can pick up the pieces and learn to be content. But I agree it is an entirely bittersweet ending.

And I don't think any of his friends are entirely left but Mister Peanutbutter. He'll stick with him because he was never seriously damaged by BoJack, he had the shallowest friendship out of the major characters, a mayfly-like attention span anyway and his feels are a mild wide and an inch deep. BoJack will never starve or lack for a place to stay while Mister is around. And that's about it, because Mister is incapable of being much else.

I'll disagree that Todd will maintain a strong friendship with him. He's a nice guy, he cares about everyone and will support BoJack to a limited extent. But I doubt he will ever forgive the past betrayals and shitty behavior. I suspect he'll hold him at arms length from here on out. Meet for lunch? Sure. Involve himself much in his life? I'd doubt it.

PC is warmer and after Mr. PB survived BoJack the best, because she's the toughest, most cynical and oldest of his friends. Plus she was likely his most continuous "love interest." She goes back to well before his worst falls from graces and probably remembers fragments of BoJack from when he wasn't quite so bad. But clearly she has wised up and will never work with him again and she has a husband, a toddler and a rapidly expanding empire to take up her attention. She may throw him work( and maybe invited him to the corporate wedding rather than the real one for just that reason ), but she won't be his support anymore.

Diane and Hollyhock are gone and they are arguably the two he cared about most.

So, nah - I don't think it is a happy ending. I'm not even sure that it is even a completely happy ending for any of the other characters. None of them( except Mr. PB )emerged unscathed. Theirs is just much happier.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-05-2020 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:17 PM
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So, nah - I don't think it is a happy ending. I'm not even sure that it is even a completely happy ending for any of the other characters. None of them( except Mr. PB )emerged unscathed. Theirs is just much happier.
Does an ending have to be 100% happy to be happy? I think Diane, PC, and Todd are all in good places. There might be damage, but none of them are losing the most important people in their lives and at least two of them have life partners. Diane in particular seems much more at peace than at any other point in the show.

Damn, this show was good about showing a "bad man" trope without glorifying him and without only having the women in the show be parts of his growth. All the while still mostly having empathy for the character. Pretty remarkable and similar to Better Call Saul in that way.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:25 PM
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Does an ending have to be 100% happy to be happy?
Not at all - I think they all got their much deserved happy ending. But it wasn't quite Hollywood happy, more Hollywoob happy - or in other words it wasn't 100% happy .

Well, it could be Todd is 100% happy, simple soul that he is and now that he has at least partially reconciled with his mother. Possibly even more so than Mr. PB who was lonely not long before the finale.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:11 PM
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"D as in Birthday Dad" LOL

It ended perfectly, I thought. BoJack had to finally deal with his shit. And he is starting to accept the consequences of his shit. It's not a happy ending, but it's happier than it could have been. Well, I guess he could have not done a second interview and he would have been rich and still a jerk - is that happier or not? I dunno.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:05 PM
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Nice to see character actress Margo Martindale back in action.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:19 PM
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The last episode seemed weak, but I suppose was necessary to give closure. Except, I'd prefer not having closure for most of these guys. Life isn't about closure, and this show has been so true to life (normal disclaimers) that it's somehow unsatisfying to have everything tied up into a nice, little bow.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:56 PM
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The last episode seemed weak, but I suppose was necessary to give closure. Except, I'd prefer not having closure for most of these guys. Life isn't about closure, and this show has been so true to life (normal disclaimers) that it's somehow unsatisfying to have everything tied up into a nice, little bow.
It's never a neat little bow with BoJack though. We've seen him go up and down HARD so many times in 6 seasons. Unless he would have died in the last episode, we really don't know if he's going to fuck things up again. We really can't even be sure that his friends are safe from him. It's hopeful that they are, but one can't really be sure.

I feel like I gotta re-watch the series now. So much happened over those years and I pretty much binged each season whatever weekend it came out, it was pretty daunting to retain that whole story with a year in between each part.
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:24 AM
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"Closure is a made up thing by Steven Spielberg to sell movie tickets. It, like true love and the Munich Olympics, doesn't exist in the real world. The only thing to do now is just to keep living forward."
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