#151  
Old 11-12-2015, 12:12 PM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
So, to clarify for anyone who either didn't read the first post, or didn't actually comprehend it: Positive news relating to firearms. You can decide for yourself what you consider to be positive.
So just to recap - a criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?
  #152  
Old 11-12-2015, 12:55 PM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
So just to recap - a criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?
See the questions in post #148. Are you ignoring them on purpose?
  #153  
Old 11-12-2015, 01:15 PM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
See the questions in post #148. Are you ignoring them on purpose?
"I think we have the capacity to evaluate components of an event, rather than the event in total. Do you think that's true?"
Yes, I do think it is possible to isolate component parts of an event and evaluate them in isolation.

"Do you think the fact that a victim of a crime was able to defend them self sounds horrible?"
No, I do not think a victim being able to defend themselves is horrible

Now, quid pro quo, Clarice. "A criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?"
  #154  
Old 11-12-2015, 01:59 PM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
So just to recap - a criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?
No, it's not positive gun news in the sense of this thread because it wasn't the result of someone with legal ownership of a gun using it to thwart an attack. The outcome however was positive in the sense that a gun eventually did allow someone to thwart a lethal attack.

Again we find ourselves faced with your underlying implication that if guns were illegal the bad guys wouldn't have had guns to begin with, but most of us on the pro-gun side know this will never happen. There's a saying that goes "If we outlaw guns, nobody will get shot anymore. That's how we stopped people from using drugs."

Like drugs, guns are everywhere in this country. It's impossible to get rid of them all and those that remain can still be stolen and used to commit crime. And of course those already circulating in criminal circles will remain there. It's also impossible to prevent guns from being smuggled in from south of the border. All that would be accomplished by trying to legally eliminate guns is to create a black market for them in which guns would be as easy to obtain as drugs are now, while simultaneously taking away the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves. Surely you would not view this as positive gun news...or would you?
  #155  
Old 11-12-2015, 02:12 PM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
No, it's not positive gun news in the sense of this thread because it wasn't the result of someone with legal ownership of a gun using it to thwart an attack. The outcome however was positive in the sense that a gun eventually did allow someone to thwart a lethal attack?
So the positive side was that unarmed persons overpowered the armed person?
  #156  
Old 11-12-2015, 02:20 PM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
Now, quid pro quo, Clarice. "A criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?"
You didn't answer all the questions in post #148. You've also conflated multiple aspects of the scenario, and equivocated on the evaluation of each of them. When you are able to answer the remaining question in post #148, you'll see that this point was directly responded to. I know, you're JAQ.

I also agree with what SA states in post #154, however I'm not as interested in the political issues raised since I'm not debating in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
So when we talk about a crime victim ending an assailant's life, many people may see the justified homicide as the lawful use of a very important right to self-defense, but stop short of calling it "positive news." I think the term "positive news" calls to mind events that we all wish would happen, as opposed to applying it to an extremely traumatic episode resolved through invoking an important (but controversial) civil right.
Understood. What is considered positive is subjective. I do think that when a person is able to effectively defend them self, that is positive. The fact that a person was forced to do so is generally negative.

Last edited by Bone; 11-12-2015 at 02:21 PM.
  #157  
Old 11-13-2015, 06:48 AM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,427
I think this is a great thing you're doing, bone. It's not scientific, but at least it provides something to get some kind of read on defensive gun uses. And so far, reaching back to August, you've got like 8 incidents or so. Slightly less than one per week. That's great!

Of course, GunFAIL blog, using the same process (reviewing stories in the media) finds about 50 incidents a week. They don't include homicides or intentional gun crimes - just times where people fucked up with guns.
  #158  
Old 11-13-2015, 10:18 AM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
In other news, Shooter Not Charged After Arlington Attack. While the headline isn't as descriptive, the narrative is familiar:
Quote:
According to authorities, one of the men started throwing bricks at the other man, who was sitting inside of his mother’s SUV. Fearing for his life, the other man pulled out a gun and shot his attacker twice. The shooter then drove the SUV to the Gander Mountain outdoors store near the intersection of Interstate-20 and Collins Street, calling his mother for help along the way.
...
Meanwhile, the shooting victim was taken to Medical Center of Arlington with wounds to his stomach and groin. He went into surgery, but his current condition is not known. Police said that he will be charged with aggravated assault, after he gets out of the hospital. His name has also not been released.
Bricks. A poorly thought out plan.

Last edited by Bone; 11-13-2015 at 10:18 AM.
  #159  
Old 11-13-2015, 10:49 AM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
In other news, Shooter Not Charged After Arlington Attack. While the headline isn't as descriptive, the narrative is familiar:

Bricks. A poorly thought out plan.
This one, also from 2 months ago, is a bit of a dubious example. The shooter was involved in escalating an argument and then fleeing the scene of a shooting. Also, why not just drive away instead of shooting the guy and then driving away?

If this is what you're having to reach for now, I'm not sure that this effort is going to have legs.
  #160  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:08 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
You're welcome to start one. I don't know what you would list as a positive abortion, but I'd be interested to find out.
  #161  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:11 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoilerVirgin View Post
From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's. When I saw the thread title, I was trying to think what I would consider positive gun news, and came up with target shooting and successful legal hunting of non-endangered animals.

People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy. We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead. Their families are mourning them. There's nothing positive about that.
These encounters don't always end in death.

How would you feel about a rape victim shooting her assailant while being raped. Is THAT positive gun news or should we shed a tear for the rapist?

We don't kill robbers after the fact when the crime is in the past. But while the robber is threatening life and limb, his life is forfeit.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 11-13-2015 at 11:14 AM.
  #162  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:18 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Sounds like this is a bit of Negative Gun News. Because, you know, it doesn't seem like the fact that he wasn't legally able to possess a gun was much of an impediment to his becoming a Bad Guy With A Gun.
Thats a bit of a silly argument isn't it?
  #163  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:21 AM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
You didn't answer all the questions in post #148. You've also conflated multiple aspects of the scenario, and equivocated on the evaluation of each of them. When you are able to answer the remaining question in post #148, you'll see that this point was directly responded to.
Sorry, missed that bit in 148. Here we go:

"the positive part is that the robbery suspect was shot with his own gun. The events leading up to that point were negative. Wouldn't you agree?"

I agree that the events leading up to that part were negative. I am indifferent over which gun was used to stop the robber, whether it was his own or someone else's. I think a criminal being stopped is a positive thing.

So, with that answered, can I repeat my question:

"A criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?"
  #164  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:21 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoilerVirgin View Post
It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.
Think of it as a lesser of two evils situation if that helps. The alternatives are not:

A) criminal gets shot and killed, or
B) criminal gets away after causing no harm to anyone.

The alternatives are:

A) criminal gets shot and killed,
B) criminal gets away after causing no harm to anyone, or
C) criminal gets away after killing the father, raping the mother and stealing all their stuff.

And many alternatives in between

Guns are not really necessary in a perfect world. They are necessary in an imperfect one.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 11-13-2015 at 11:22 AM.
  #165  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:23 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
No matter how many people call a dog's tail a leg, it still isn't a leg. There was no disaster, period. Show us the devastation and human suffering that all the media slept through. The only reason to call him a disaster relief worker--pardon me, that he was doing disaster relief work--is to create more sympathy for him than he deserves.

Did you read the article? It says, as you yourself quoted, "he is sometimes hired to do disaster relief", not that he was in this case, because he wasn't. I guess you just forgot to highlight "sometimes". Your other two links are to the same slanted story. One site just copied the other verbatim but you quoted different parts so it looks like two separate stories. Any other cheap stunts you want to perform for us?

What I really fail to see is how a guy who gets into trouble by not bothering to learn the law is a good gun story. Even more to the point, as it's already been pointed out by a few other posters, how is killing people, for whatever reason, good?
So Bone posts three articles referring to disaster relief work but you insist on your own definition of disaster relief work?
  #166  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:28 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
What if you needed that money to pay your rent on the store? or on your home?
  #167  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:29 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
If I'm "protecting life" it's not an armed robber but a murderer. In that situation yes.
Between killing someone and the $200 or $300 in the till (or my wallet), no I wouldn't shoot to kill.
What if its not $200. What if its your life savings?
  #168  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:32 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Sounds like a locked door would have been equally effective.
You're right, its really all the guys fault for not locking his door.
  #169  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:35 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
It is not Think of the Children, but last I checked pools are rarely use to commit armed robbery. If the NRA would meet most of America part way the gun owners would not be reviled collectively. We need nationwide waiting periods, registration, limitations on automatic weapons and non-ferrous guns. We need gun safety training to be mandatory. Things like this would have me on the gun owners side, instead I see the crap the NRA does on behalf of gun owners and it makes the gun supporters look very unreasonable. Cars have to be registered, so why not guns?
What is the halfway part? Where is the gun control side coming half way? Where are you compromising?

Is getting only MOST of what you want without giving the other side any of what they want "meeting halfway?"

Hey, What Exit. Give me all your money. No? OK, then just meet me half way. Come on dude, be reasonable.
  #170  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:40 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Seriously, you really believe the govmint is going to come and take yer guns away?

This outweighs the need to track how guns get into the hands of criminals?

How do you feel about the training and licensing at least?
These things make sense to me. How about getting rid of a few gun laws that don't make sense?

We can start with pre-emption. eliminate all state and local gun laws and replace it with a federal licensing and registration scheme that would require all gun owners to register their firearms and get licensed. Oh, you want to have your cake and eat it too when at least half the cake belongs to me? Does that sound reasonable to you?
  #171  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:50 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
Maybe if conservatives would stop giving themselves tax cuts at the expense of corrections budgets, we wouldn't have to release convicts early from over-crowded prisons. Conservatives rarely consider the unintended consequences of their actions.
Every murder costs society about $7 million. Most property crimes cost much more than what they thieves get away with.

This sort of money is much better spent on early childhood and education. We need prisons because education and opportunity won't stop crime but it costs more to keep a convict in prison than to send them to college (including room and board).
  #172  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:02 PM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
I think this is a great thing you're doing, bone. It's not scientific, but at least it provides something to get some kind of read on defensive gun uses. And so far, reaching back to August, you've got like 8 incidents or so. Slightly less than one per week. That's great!
Up to the point you posted this, I had linked 20-25 different articles, but hey, I guess you captured that with your "8 incidents or so". That's how you science!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
This one, also from 2 months ago, is a bit of a dubious example. The shooter was involved in escalating an argument and then fleeing the scene of a shooting. Also, why not just drive away instead of shooting the guy and then driving away?

If this is what you're having to reach for now, I'm not sure that this effort is going to have legs.
An argument, oh no! Adults argue, nothing wrong with that. When it escalates to brick throwing, that's a problem. Maybe the brick thrower presented an immediate threat that couldn't be obviated by fleeing. When someone is threatening another person's life, shooting to stop the threat then leaving the scene where the threat is present seems reasonable. Seeing as how witnesses corroborated the incident, police interviewed the shooter at the location that he drove to, arrested the brick thrower, and did not arrest the shooter, the police seemed to agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
These things make sense to me. How about getting rid of a few gun laws that don't make sense?

We can start with pre-emption. eliminate all state and local gun laws and replace it with a federal licensing and registration scheme that would require all gun owners to register their firearms and get licensed. Oh, you want to have your cake and eat it too when at least half the cake belongs to me? Does that sound reasonable to you?
FYI - this isn't intended as a thread for debate, though I claim no special powers of guidance.

Last edited by Bone; 11-13-2015 at 12:03 PM.
  #173  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:20 PM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Think I've got the hang of this now:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/13/us-mars...-penn-station/

Police used guns to arrest a shooter before he could shoot more people. That's positive gun news, right?
  #174  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:40 PM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
"A criminal with a firearm, being disarmed by an unarmed person...that's positive gun news because a gun crime was prevented, right?"
You've already answered the question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
I think a criminal being stopped is a positive thing.
How was the criminal stopped?
  #175  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:46 PM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Up to the point you posted this, I had linked 20-25 different articles, but hey, I guess you captured that with your "8 incidents or so".
No, I was just guessing from recollection and from a lack of desire to go back to sift out all the stuff on New Jersey pardons and McAuliffe is terrible and stuff. But it looks like you're right and I misrepresented the number of incidents you've linked to. My apologies.

So, you're at about 3 incidents per week (even allowing for the dog shooting and the escalate the argument, shoot and drive away guy and the martial artist who didn't have a gun). Great! Maybe about 1,100 DGUs per year.

By the way, counting links (or miscounting links) is not science. If you think that's science, that might explain some of the problem here.
  #176  
Old 11-13-2015, 12:50 PM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
You've already answered the question:

How was the criminal stopped?
Well in two of your examples by unarmed people. You've got the Krav practioner who disarmed his armed assailant, and then the scuffle at the railway station.

I thought a positive outcome to be the bit where the assailants have been disarmed and dismissed as a threat, or does it only become positive when there's a gun pointed at them?
  #177  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:52 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
You're welcome to start one. I don't know what you would list as a positive abortion, but I'd be interested to find out.
You kind of sucks at grasping points, don't you?

I see no "positive abortion stories" because when someone decides to have an abortion I consider it an unfortunate but necessary occurrence. Much like what I was told gun owners feel if they have the misfortune to find themselves in a situation where they must shoot somebody. But apparently that's just one more positive thing about your favorite toys. Who knew?
  #178  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:07 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hartwick View Post
I just checked, albeit not exhaustively. Not a single gun homicide in Australia today. Seems pretty positive to me. Too bad that America can't do anything about her little problem. Sure, she won two world wars and put a man on the moon, but I guess reasonable gun control laws are just too darn hard to enact, even when it's what the majority wants.
Its not a little problem. It is only possible to disarm people who will obey the law. leaving only only criminals in possession of guns.

Australia had a murder rate approaching zero before the gun ban and the murder rate is about the same after the gun ban (IOW, your gun ban did little to nothing for you). The level of gun violence in Australia is similar to the gun violence in New Zealand which is culturally similar but does not have a gun ban. There is a lot more to it the difference in gun violence than differences in gun control laws. Gun control laws seem to be one of the least significant factors.
  #179  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:18 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hartwick View Post
Really? Most places have "shall issue" rules in place for concealed carry laws? Cos we surely do not in Australia. Nor do department stores sell firearms, like they do in the US. I think the rules are different, despite having similar cultures.
Would it surprise you to find out that concealed carry permit holders are not only more law abiding than the general public, they are more law abiding than the average police officer.
  #180  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:26 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
And your idea of a positive gun story is that a person who was able to illegally obtain a gun attempted to rob people, fired at them three times, but then had the gun taken off him by one of the victims?

You are effectively saying that really nasty events that didn't go as badly as they could have are good things.
Winning WWII was a good thing despite the fact that the facts leading up to that event were not.
  #181  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:32 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,208
Here's some positive gun news:

Quote:
There were 131 firearm-related homicides in 2013, down 41 from 2012. This resulted in the lowest rate of firearm-related homicide since comparable data became available in 1974.
  #182  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:34 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Canada doesn't count. It's foreign.
  #183  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:40 PM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
It looks like Jihadi John has finally been offed.

It would be interesting to know how the anti-gun people in this thread feel about this. I'd wager most are delighted but loathe to admit it.

If on the other hand you are delighted and feel justice has been done, I'll point out this is the reason you perceive happiness on the part of some of us on the pro-gun side when the type of people who shoot young nursing mothers in the stomach or murder entire families in convenience store coolers get shot. It's not that we're blood-thirsty and eager for someone to get shot, it's that some people's crimes are so heinous that both justice and public safety demand it.

I'll admit that some defensive shootings are unfortunate, particularly those where small amounts of money are being robbed or a drug addict breaks in looking for something to pawn and is unaware someone is at home. These are kinds of crimes where the crook may or may not have murderous intent, but there's no way to know until it's too late and they're the ones who've made themselves a threat to their victims' lives.

Either way, though, the best outcome is not to deprive the innocent parties in these scenarios the ability to use firearms to defend themselves.
  #184  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:43 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
An Op Ed (I think?) from the Washington Post asks, Did gun control cost McAuliffe and Democrats the Virginia election?
Are you kidding? There is a good chance that Gun Control is going to cost Hillary Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Colorado.

Those reviled gun owners (who are frequently Republican) who typically stay home on election day will turn out if gun control becomes an issue. Its about the worst issue for Democrats.

I bet that Hillary makes some sort of mealy mouthed endorsement of the second amendment and hunting (and possibly even get "caught" duck hunting in Pennsylvania). That is no indication of what she will do when she gets into office but there are no additional votes to be had by stumping on gun control while there are a lot of votes to be lost.
  #185  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:46 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Up to the point you posted this, I had linked 20-25 different articles, but hey, I guess you captured that with your "8 incidents or so". That's how you science!


An argument, oh no! Adults argue, nothing wrong with that. When it escalates to brick throwing, that's a problem. Maybe the brick thrower presented an immediate threat that couldn't be obviated by fleeing. When someone is threatening another person's life, shooting to stop the threat then leaving the scene where the threat is present seems reasonable. Seeing as how witnesses corroborated the incident, police interviewed the shooter at the location that he drove to, arrested the brick thrower, and did not arrest the shooter, the police seemed to agree.


FYI - this isn't intended as a thread for debate, though I claim no special powers of guidance.
OOPS. I didn't see we were in MPSIMS forum.
  #186  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:52 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Are you kidding? There is a good chance that Gun Control is going to cost Hillary Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Colorado.

Those reviled gun owners (who are frequently Republican) who typically stay home on election day will turn out if gun control becomes an issue. Its about the worst issue for Democrats.

I bet that Hillary makes some sort of mealy mouthed endorsement of the second amendment and hunting (and possibly even get "caught" duck hunting in Pennsylvania). That is no indication of what she will do when she gets into office but there are no additional votes to be had by stumping on gun control while there are a lot of votes to be lost.
Missed edit window:

BTW, if pushing gun control lost the Richmond election (and this is widely considered to be the case), we effectively gave up medicaid expansion to pander to the gun control folks who were going to vote Democrat anyway. Gun control drives a lot more gun owners to the polls here in Virignia than anti-gun folks (most of them are either voting anyway or don't care enough about guns for it to make a difference).

So the cost of pushing this gun control agenda in Virginia means no medicaid expansion. Good fucking job Terry!!!
  #187  
Old 11-14-2015, 02:35 AM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
So a drone strike that has probably killed a terrorist is also within the remit of Positive Gun News?

Gosh.
  #188  
Old 11-14-2015, 02:37 AM
Gary Kumquat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Winning WWII was a good thing despite the fact that the facts leading up to that event were not.
So you're going for a "yes it was a terrible thing, but the good guys won in the end" definition of a positive event?
  #189  
Old 11-14-2015, 07:05 PM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Folkston woman kills man breaking into her home
Quote:
A Folkston police officer and Charlton deputy responded to a call of a burglary in progress just before 8 a.m. at a home on Cedar Ridge Road, near Highway 121 and Okefenokee Drive. They found a man later identified as Jonathan Green, 40, of Folkston, unresponsive at the edge of the yard. The 64- and 75-year-old women who live there said the man entered the home and attacked them.

The younger woman said she was attacked from behind in a bedroom, but managed to get away. She said the man left the room, and when he came back she had armed herself with a small caliber pistol and shot him three times. She said he left through the front door.

The older sister had a gash on her head and the younger sister had minor injuries. Both were transported to a hospital to be checked.

Authorities said they found blood inside the home, on the front porch and in the yard.
Even after being shot three times, a person can still be mobile.
  #190  
Old 11-16-2015, 08:24 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
You kind of sucks at grasping points, don't you?

I see no "positive abortion stories" because when someone decides to have an abortion I consider it an unfortunate but necessary occurrence. Much like what I was told gun owners feel if they have the misfortune to find themselves in a situation where they must shoot somebody. But apparently that's just one more positive thing about your favorite toys. Who knew?
  #191  
Old 11-16-2015, 08:28 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
So you're going for a "yes it was a terrible thing, but the good guys won in the end" definition of a positive event?
Yes. Something that was going to be very bad became a lot less bad. that is positive news.
  #192  
Old 11-16-2015, 10:33 AM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Compelling rebuttal.
  #193  
Old 11-16-2015, 11:35 AM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,860
Catawba man says he shot intruder out of 'fear for his life'
Quote:
He says a beer bottle was broken on his head and a cinder block was used to hit him as well. As he was pushed back against a wall, Lyons says he pulled out his handgun and fired a shot at one of the intruders who, at the time, had an arm across his chest, "I hit him in the upper arm or torso area."
...
At that time of night, the office is closed and no officers were around. The chief says about a half hour later a person showed up with a gunshot wound at a local hospital and was later transported to Baptist Hospital for treatment. So far, no charges have been filed and he says the man denies being involved in the Catawba incident.
...
Lyons' weapon, a 40 caliber Smith and Wesson, has been confiscated for now but if cleared in the shooting, it would be returned to him. Lyons says he did what he had to do, "If I hadn't a had the gun I think I would have died."
Opening doors to strangers in the middle of the night is a bad idea. Opening doors to strangers is a bad idea.
  #194  
Old 11-16-2015, 01:48 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
Unless you got a gun ... then go ahead and open your door to strangers all you want. Think of all the different sort of people you'll get to meet. And shoot.
  #195  
Old 11-16-2015, 03:00 PM
Scumpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 14,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
Unless you got a gun ... then go ahead and open your door to strangers all you want. Think of all the different sort of people you'll get to meet. And shoot.
What outcome, other than the one that actually happened, would you prefer?
  #196  
Old 11-16-2015, 03:18 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
I couldn't read the link ... it doesn't work and play well with my phone ... but if I had a choice between not opening my door to strangers in the middle of the night where no one gets shot and opening my doors to strangers in the middle of the night willing to shoot them if they're not my kind of strangers, then I choose the former.

In other words (I don't know why this isn't sinking in) ...no one getting shot is always preferable to someone getting shot. And I find the celebration of someone getting shot - whoever the fuck it is and whatever the fuck they did - to be incredibly ghoulish.
  #197  
Old 11-16-2015, 03:45 PM
Scumpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 14,294
Your preferred outcome is that we all live in fear of opening our doors? You prefer this over a violent robber getting shot?
  #198  
Old 11-16-2015, 05:57 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
I prefer that no one gets shot and I refuse to celebrate when someone does. Clear enough?
  #199  
Old 11-16-2015, 06:34 PM
Scumpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 14,294
Not really. You haven't given us the full parameters of "no one gets shot." From here, it is looking a lot like you think it is better for all the honest citizens to fear opening their doors than it is for dishonest and violent people to get shot. Am I missing some nuance of your position? Did I carelessly skip over the part where you explained what we would do about the robbers? Other than lock our doors and hope they just go away, I mean.
  #200  
Old 11-17-2015, 01:31 AM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,579
Yes. You're missing the big nuance. The existence of this thread and my comments in it have nothing to do with what I or you or the Queen of Sheba wants to happen to people with guns but how we react to situations where people get shot. I consider that a very negative thing. You seem to revel in the fact that people get to shoot other people which I find ghoulish.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017