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  #301  
Old 07-19-2016, 01:54 AM
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Then why do we have so many deadbeats and high-school grads who can read or write at a second-grade level? And yes, you're right, it was different in my halcyon days.
Is reading and writing really so bad these days? I honestly don't know but with all the texting and social media usage I'd think that being able to read and write would be a social priority for most kids these days. The grammar may not be perfect but I'd think that it would be above second grade level.

But I suppose that's a discussion for a different thread.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:54 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?

Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
  #303  
Old 07-19-2016, 01:57 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?

Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
A pretty, elegant, classy woman used those same words as Miss Greencard, and she did it 8 years ago.
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  #304  
Old 07-19-2016, 02:13 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?

Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/w...e-727567427784

As pointed in the other thread. In that report about the plagiarism Republican strategist Steve Schmidt does point that the speech was indeed a highlight, but after the plagiarism was found it turned this troubled night into a catastrophe.

Then he fell for the excuse that it was for sure the appalling work of the speech writers and therefore Melania was blameless, but that became more embarrassing (you would think that was impossible) when it was pointed later elsewhere about what Melania told in an early interview about her speech "work".

As for delivery, I looked at how the speech was delivered in 2008 , compared to what Michelle Obama did, Melania Trump really looked to me as if she was a bit stiff and and also worried.
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:18 AM
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Not a bad post, GIGO, considering our history. My compliments.
  #306  
Old 07-19-2016, 02:25 AM
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I wonder how long before Pence jumps ship. The man is very, very far right but presumably still has some kind of functioning brain.
You think so? I'd be careful with that, because dontcha know...

...When you presume you make a pre out of u and me.
  #307  
Old 07-19-2016, 02:52 AM
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Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
Now that we know the Classy Lassie plagiarized it, I think some of the verses of Richard Thompson's Fergus Laing need to be recalled to describe the whole situation perfectly:

Fergus Laing, he works so hard
As busy as a bee is
Fergus Laing has 17 friends
All as dull as he is
His 17 friends has 17 wives
All the perfect shape and size
They wag their tails and bat their eyes
Just like Lassie

Fergus he builds and builds
Yet small is his erection
Fergus has a fine head of hair
When the wind’s in the right direction

Fergus Laing and his 17 friends
They live inside a bubble
There they withdraw and shut the door
At any sign of trouble
Should the peasants wail and vent
And ask him where the money went
He’ll simply say, it’s all been spent
On being classy
  #308  
Old 07-19-2016, 02:54 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?

Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
Ah, so you're the audience for that political cartoon I linked to earlier...
  #309  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:13 AM
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#FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes is trending on Twitter.

Some of them are hilarious. (Be sure to check out the photoshopped pictures, too.)




https://twitter.com/hashtag/FamousMe...uotes?src=hash

Bennett Arron ‏@BennettArron 22m22 minutes ago

"I stand in front of you today as a proud, black woman....." #FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes

(((Lady TheoloGOP))) ‏@TheoloGOP 34m34 minutes ago

"It takes a village to steal a speech."
#FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes


Jackée Harry Verified account ‏@JackeeHarry 1h1 hour ago

#FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation.."


Keya Morgan ‏@KeyaMorgan 2h2 hours ago

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" #FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes


OctavioAHinojosaMier ‏@OctavioHM71 2h2 hours ago

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." #FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes


Chrish Verified account ‏@mistachrish 2h2 hours ago Sevierville, TN

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

#FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes
  #310  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:32 AM
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Ah, so you're the audience for that political cartoon I linked to earlier...
Nah, Michelle is nowhere near that heavily muscled or unattractive. But classy is not a word I'd use to describe her. Nor successful, nor a symbol of hard work and upward mobility. But I'd say the same for almost any Democratic first lady or politician. Democrats, at least in terms of political policy, couldn't care less about class, glamor, success and upward mobility. These are all hallmarks of privilege, you see, and as such are unfair and should be abandoned.
  #311  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:34 AM
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I am just basking in schadenfreude right now.
  #312  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:35 AM
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You can't make this shit up. The photo of Michelle Obama holding up the sign is classic.

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Bring back my speech.

Last edited by Johnny Ace; 07-19-2016 at 03:38 AM.
  #313  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:49 AM
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#FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes is trending on Twitter.
This place is going to be insufferable if Trump gets elected. Every fucking word coming out of him, anyone in his family and anyone in his administration is going to be endlessly vetted for any error or inaccuracy or possibility for misrepresentation, (Can you say "Trump was pointing at her tits"??) and trumpeted and mocked endlessly in the news and social media. It'll be Dan Quayle times 1,000 for four to eight fucking years.

Would that Democrats come under the same scrutiny. For all we know Michelle's speech could have been plagiarized, but we'd never hear a peep about it if so. How many critical or condemning articles have appeared about Obama the last eight years outside Fox and Drudge? I've never found one anytime I've looked on sites such as CNN, USA Today, the New York Times, the LA Times, etc., etc., etc. For all anyone outside the Fox/Drudge sphere knows, Obama himself is a Teflon president. Only without the need of Teflon.

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  #314  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:58 AM
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That response would make a lot more sense if the similarities were much more vague, or it was just one sentence.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:04 AM
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I am just basking in schadenfreude right now.
HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, I got'cha schadenfreude...SWINGIN''!

How much of that do you think's gonna show up in the mainstream media? (C'mon, journos, prove you have at least a shred of integrity and trumpet that with the same intensity you do Melania's speech.) Ain't gonna happen, I guarantee it!
  #316  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:11 AM
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The Deval Patrick plagiarism was covered extensively in the MSM. But that was from a friend and ally. This is much more embarrassing.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:16 AM
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Oh, yeah? Was it covered like this?

And who cares if it was from a friend and ally? Obama presented it as his own.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 07-19-2016 at 04:17 AM.
  #318  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:19 AM
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Nah, Michelle is nowhere near that heavily muscled or unattractive. But classy is not a word I'd use to describe her. Nor successful, nor a symbol of hard work and upward mobility. But I'd say the same for almost any Democratic first lady or politician. Democrats, at least in terms of political policy, couldn't care less about class, glamor, success and upward mobility. These are all hallmarks of privilege, you see, and as such are unfair and should be abandoned.
I'll be sure to let all the Democratic men and women I served with in the Navy that they aren't classy, didn't work hard, and aren't successful.

Jesus, what a pointlessly hateful post.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:21 AM
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This place is going to be insufferable if Trump gets elected. Every fucking word coming out of him, anyone in his family and anyone in his administration is going to be endlessly vetted for any error or inaccuracy or possibility for misrepresentation, (Can you say "Trump was pointing at her tits"??) and trumpeted and mocked endlessly in the news and social media. It'll be Dan Quayle times 1,000 for four to eight fucking years.

Would that Democrats come under the same scrutiny.
Are you serious? Obama and Clinton are attacked relentlessly for everything they say and do by the frothing true believer GOP and Tea partiers. If Trump is mocked more than them, it's because he objectively says loads more incredibly stupid things. Sorry that reality has a liberal bias.

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  #320  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:31 AM
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I'll be sure to let all the Democratic men and women I served with in the Navy that they aren't classy, didn't work hard, and aren't successful.

Jesus, what a pointlessly hateful post.
The Democratic men and women you served with in the Navy were Democratic politicians?

They're the ones who set policy, you know.

But be that as it may, let me isolate what I said in the hope it gets through this time:

Quote:
But I'd say the same for almost any Democratic first lady or politician. Democrats, at least in terms of political policy, couldn't care less about class, glamor, success and upward mobility. These are all hallmarks of privilege, you see, and as such are unfair and should be abandoned.
[bolding, of course, is mine]

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  #321  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:35 AM
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Oh, yeah? Was it covered like this?

And who cares if it was from a friend and ally? Obama presented it as his own.
Trust me: if it had been borrowed from a Bush speech, it would have been far more embarrassing.
  #322  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:37 AM
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Perhaps, but certainly no more dishonest.
  #323  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:42 AM
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It's funny that Melania plagiarized Michelle Obama's speech on the very same day the Rep. King said that whites are responsible for Western Civilization and all the other sub-groups have contributed nothing.

Well, not funny. Not funny at all.
  #324  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:56 AM
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Is this a hoax, or did Trump tweet the exact same words about Melania as Barack did about Michelle's convention speech? If that is true, then I know someone on Team Trump is sabotaging the operation. And that says a lot about the loyalty the Donald inspires.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:01 AM
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So we've heard a lot from what I'm sure conservatives here would call the Usual Liberal Doper Peanut Gallery. Any sense of what the rank and file Republican thinks (not just the well known anti-Trumpers at RedState)? Or even undecideds/independents/Bernie bros?
I have the same question. We know what well educated people think about Trump; we know what professional journalists feel about Trump. What we don't know, is what the 50 % of voters think with an IQ under the average of 100. They are the silent majority in this election. My fear, and I hope I'm wrong, is taht they will be easy victims to Donalds simple, emotional language and self-assured body language. Has any research been done into this?
  #326  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:07 AM
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But classy is not a word I'd use to describe her. Nor successful, nor a symbol of hard work and upward mobility.
But you'd use these words for a plagiarist trophy wife...
  #327  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:12 AM
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Is this a hoax, or did Trump tweet the exact same words about Melania as Barack did about Michelle's convention speech? If that is true, then I know someone on Team Trump is sabotaging the operation. And that says a lot about the loyalty the Donald inspires.
It's a hoax - does that really read like an Obama tweet to you? Also, the 2012 Dem Convention was in September...

Last edited by MrDibble; 07-19-2016 at 05:13 AM.
  #328  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:14 AM
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Is this a hoax, or did Trump tweet the exact same words about Melania as Barack did about Michelle's convention speech? If that is true, then I know someone on Team Trump is sabotaging the operation. And that says a lot about the loyalty the Donald inspires.
Definitely a hoax. The 2012 DNC was in September.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:31 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?

Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
This might be a bit of a low blow, and I really mean Melania no ill will (can't be easy to be married to a racist shit-flinging howler monkey) but "symbol of hard work"? She's a model who married a rich guy, and that rich guy in turn is mostly rich because of massive loans from his rich father and the uncanny ability to get away with being a colossal douchebag.
  #330  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:33 AM
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And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?
A stiffer reading off a teleprompter there never has been.

Quote:
Seriously though, it's so nice to see a pretty, elegant, classy woman on the podium serving as a symbol of hard work, glamor, upward mobility and success after all these years of privilege-whinging, excuse-making and downwardly mobile lifestyles portrayed as noble and good coming from the left.
It's a pity those Sixties hippy liberals invented plagiarism.
  #331  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:35 AM
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The Democratic men and women you served with in the Navy were Democratic politicians?

They're the ones who set policy, you know.

But be that as it may, let me isolate what I said in the hope it gets through this time:

[bolding, of course, is mine]
One is, actually (at the local level). Thank you for clarifying, and I'll tell him what you think of him.

Have you even considered that maybe some Democrats are hard working and intelligent people who just see things very differently from you? Is it possible for hard working and classy people to disagree with you?
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:44 AM
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Paul Manafort's explanation: "There is no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech. These are common words."

So they're going to double down. And this is the most boring day of the convention, so nothing is going to wow people into forgetting this. And Manafort is the professional, who was brought in to make this a normal campaign. Although, Trump being Trump, there's always the possibility that he'll say something grievously offensive and get people talking about that instead.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 07-19-2016 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:44 AM
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Some are even hard-working intelligent enough to write their own speeches.

I have to add, this is the first time I've ever seen someone named Trump called classy.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:48 AM
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I have to add, this is the first time I've ever seen someone named Trump called classy.
One theory I've read is that Trump's base is people who think he's classy. Trump is a lot of people's idea of what they'd be like if they became rich. Look at all the lottery winners who go broke after spending all their money on tacky ostentation.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 07-19-2016 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:59 AM
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Assuming Melania really did write her speech, I'm willing to cut her some slack (not a lot).

My scenario: English is not her first language nor is America her native land, so she went to the internet to find examples of previous speeches by candidate wives. Michelle did give one hell of a speech, so she cribbed some of it. (It would be interesting to look and see if chunks of anyone else's speeches ended up in there also).

Then she turned it over to the speech writers (who unlike college profs didn't run it through a plagiarism checker) who polished it up a bit, and she went out and read it.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:59 AM
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Perhaps, but certainly no more dishonest.
But Patrick gave Obama permission to use those words.

From that cite:

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In a telephone interview on Sunday, Mr. Patrick said that he and Mr. Obama first talked about the attacks from their respective rivals last summer, when Mrs. Clinton was raising questions about Mr. Obama’s experience, and that they discussed them again last week.

Both men had anticipated that Mr. Obama’s rhetorical strength would provide a point of criticism. Mr. Patrick said he told Mr. Obama that he should respond to the criticism, and he shared language from his campaign with Mr. Obama’s speechwriters.

Mr. Patrick said he did not believe Mr. Obama should give him credit.

“Who knows who I am? The point is more important than whose argument it is,” said Mr. Patrick, who telephoned The New York Times at the request of the Obama campaign. “It’s a transcendent argument.”
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:12 AM
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But Patrick gave Obama permission to use those words.
I'm aware of that, Superdude. The point is though that the public didn't know it. Whether Patrick gave Obama permission to use his speech, or whether he felt that for Obama to give him credit was ill-advised, is beside the point. The real point is that Obama's audience thought the speech was his and took it to heart accordingly, as both men intended. It was a deliberate and orchestrated deception.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:12 AM
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One theory I've read is that Trump's base is people who think he's classy.
He has chandeleeahs.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10329

Last edited by TonySinclair; 07-19-2016 at 06:15 AM.
  #339  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:20 AM
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I'm aware of that, Superdude. The point is though that the public didn't know it. Whether Patrick gave Obama permission to use his speech, or whether he felt that for Obama to give him credit was ill-advised, is beside the point. The real point is that Obama's audience thought the speech was his and took it to heart accordingly, as both men intended. It was a deliberate and orchestrated deception.
FFS, Obama's audience knows he has speechwriters.
  #340  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:22 AM
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I'm aware of that, Superdude. The point is though that the public didn't know it. Whether Patrick gave Obama permission to use his speech, or whether he felt that for Obama to give him credit was ill-advised, is beside the point. The real point is that Obama's audience thought the speech was his and took it to heart accordingly, as both men intended. It was a deliberate and orchestrated deception.
Maybe you should have explicitly stated that as your objection, rather than insinuate that he had plagiarized it without Parker's knowledge.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:32 AM
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Paul Manafort's explanation: "There is no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech. These are common words."

So they're going to double down. And this is the most boring day of the convention, so nothing is going to wow people into forgetting this. And Manafort is the professional, who was brought in to make this a normal campaign. Although, Trump being Trump, there's always the possibility that he'll say something grievously offensive and get people talking about that instead.
Melania Trump giving homage to Michelle Obama's speechifying, and denying it, is the big deal of that night?

On the scale of Trump-ups (1 to 10) that is a 1.5 Trump-up.
  #342  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:38 AM
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Maybe you should have explicitly stated that as your objection, rather than insinuate that he had plagiarized it without Parker's knowledge.
Well, part of the problem is that the anti-Trump, pro-Obama posters have attempted to move the goalposts on the issue. When it first became apparent Melania's speech closely resembled Michelle Obama's, the criticism and mockery had nothing to do with having not asked Michelle's permission and everything to do with she didn't write it herself and either copied it from Michelle or her speechwriter did. So the issue was she didn't write her own speech and copied from what she or her speechwriter thought was a good speech delivered previously by Michelle Obama.

Now all of a sudden it's become a case of who had permission and who didn't, a question that never arose until after I posted a Youtube video of Obama earnestly and passionately delivering another guy's speech.

So I'm inclined to think the original objection should stand because that's what my opponents were initially all het up over. They now disagree because then their guy is just as bad as Melania. So now they want to change horses midstream and make it an issue of permission because that way they can win.

Such is life at the Straight Dope Message Board.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 07-19-2016 at 06:39 AM.
  #343  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:45 AM
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FFS, Obama's audience knows he has speechwriters.
Yes, but they don't know he's cribbing another guy's speech word for word. Both men agreed it would be better if the audience thought the words and thoughts expressed in the speech were coming from Obama rather than from Patrick. So like I said, it was a deliberate deception undertaken for the express purpose of misleading the audience.
  #344  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:55 AM
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I see CNN has now changed their webpage headline from trumpeting "Plagiarism" to the more inflammatory declaration, "Stolen Words".

Either that, or they figure their readership doesn't know what plagiarism is.

I'm thinking it's 50/50 either way.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:59 AM
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Well, part of the problem is that the anti-Trump, pro-Obama posters have attempted to move the goalposts on the issue. When it first became apparent Melania's speech closely resembled Michelle Obama's, the criticism and mockery had nothing to do with having not asked Michelle's permission and everything to do with she didn't write it herself and either copied it from Michelle or her speechwriter did. So the issue was she didn't write her own speech and copied from what she or her speechwriter thought was a good speech delivered previously by Michelle Obama.

Now all of a sudden it's become a case of who had permission and who didn't, a question that never arose until after I posted a Youtube video of Obama earnestly and passionately delivering another guy's speech.

So I'm inclined to think the original objection should stand because that's what my opponents were initially all het up over. They now disagree because then their guy is just as bad as Melania. So now they want to change horses midstream and make it an issue of permission because that way they can win.

Such is life at the Straight Dope Message Board.
I see a lot of Trump in you, in that you're never really content to let an issue go. You both seem to have an almost pathological need to have the last word, even if it diminishes the rest of your argument.

You, of course, may disagree with that notion, and it's not intended as an insult. We've been in a few threads together, but never really interacted that much. I'm just making an observation.

You could just as easily say that I'm kind of a weak debater, with an almost pathological need to show that I belong at the adults' table. And you would be right.
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  #346  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:02 AM
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The Melania plagiarism is amusing, but I'm far more worried about things like Congressman (and maybe the dumbest man in Congress aside from Louie Gohmert) Steve King repeating white supremacist talking points about the supposed superiority of white civilization.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 07-19-2016 at 07:03 AM.
  #347  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Would that Democrats come under the same scrutiny. For all we know Michelle's speech could have been plagiarized, but we'd never hear a peep about it if so. How many critical or condemning articles have appeared about Obama the last eight years outside Fox and Drudge? I've never found one anytime I've looked on sites such as CNN, USA Today, the New York Times, the LA Times, etc., etc., etc. For all anyone outside the Fox/Drudge sphere knows, Obama himself is a Teflon president. Only without the need of Teflon.
...you mean like the Democratic candidate who had to endure a massive and years long investigation even though the previous SEVEN investigations exonerated her?

Obama and the Clintons have been repeatedly, viciously, and often hysterically attacked over every word, phrase, and gesture they did or did not make... Not matter how much those accusations are idiotic, ill conceived, or imaginary.
  #348  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:14 AM
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That "plagiarism" felt a whole lot like a speechwriters revenge ..


Some of the convention addresses are like scenes from The Hunger Games, a kind of altered, Nuremberg reality. Plus, the relentless exploitation of genuine grief and heartbreaking pain

Wtf happened to the USA.
  #349  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
And why is no one talking about how well she delivered the speech, huh?
Paul Begala, Clintonite Extraordinaire, certainly commented on it:

Quote:
By far the night's best moment came from Mr. Trump's remarkable wife, Melania. But even her gracious speech was tainted with a very Trumpian controversy. A side-by-side comparison of one paragraph shows it was lifted from Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech. Let me be clear: I do not blame Mrs. Trump for this. She is a political neophyte. But her husband and his team should have been especially sensitive after The New York Times reported on Trump Institute's plagiarism a few weeks ago.
...
The rage-fest was nearly rescued by Melania Trump. The charming and accomplished spouse of The Donald has not spoken often, but she brought a quiet grace to an otherwise divisive and nasty night. She even accomplished the impossible: keeping her loquacious husband down to a one-sentence introduction after he entered the stage like a WWE wrestler. But her herculean effort was smashed within hours, as eagle-eyed observers discovered that a passage about values in her speech was apparently plagiarized from Mrs. Obama.
Begala: A very Trump convention -- messy, undisciplined, angry

Last edited by Northern Piper; 07-19-2016 at 07:31 AM.
  #350  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:35 AM
elucidator is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
...When it first became apparent Melania's speech closely resembled Michelle Obama's...
This gem belongs in your Greatest Hits compilation. "Closely resembled", indeed. Just so. Did you write "very closely resembled" first, and then thought maybe that was a bit much? Didn't want to overdo it?
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