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Old 12-28-2017, 10:21 AM
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Coke, Blackjack, and hookers on the high seas


They have floating casinos, where gamblers board in port, the boat goes into international waters, and everyone starts gambling. Also, other boats act like ferries, bringing gamblers to and from the mothership.

Gambling equipment is not illegal in itself, so as long as all the slot machines are locked up and nobody is betting, the boat came come back into port for maintenance or to host non-gambling events in port.

So, why not extend this to coke and hookers? There would be a boat that stays permanently offshore that is stocked with pure Columbian cocaine, the boat remained in international waters the entire trip. The boat goes offshore, everyone does lots of coke and gambling, it's all legal. Similarly, women above the age of consent boarded the boat in port and were plying their trade as prostitutes while the boat was out in international waters. It's not illegal to have genitals, and as long as any sex acts are 'freebies' when the boat returns, it's all legal.

Note that I'm not in favor of doing this, I'm simply wondering if it would be legal or not. Surely international law doesn't cover vices, and cocaine is a drug used worldwide in medicine, surely there's not international agreement that using it recreation-ally is an outright crime.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:29 AM
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It's not like ships in international waters are in lawless space, not subject to any jurisdiction; they are still under the jurisdiction of the flag state. The "international" in "international waters" doesn't mean no law applies at all, it means there is no coastal state that could claim jurisdiction competing with that of the flag state. Views on gambling differ from state to state, but cocaine is internationally frowned upon, and a flag state that wouldn't interfere with your pleasure craft would soon find itself under severe pressure from other countries to stop what you're doing.

Now you might be tempted to stay entirely flagless, but that would not be advisable. A flagless vessel is considered an outlaw in the law of the sea community, and any country would have jurisdiction to seize it (much as every country has jurisdiction to combat piracy).
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:45 AM
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Long range drones could deliver the cocaine. And the women could turn into a pizza after sex.

Last edited by Morgenstern; 12-28-2017 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:50 AM
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It's not like ships in international waters are in lawless space, not subject to any jurisdiction; they are still under the jurisdiction of the flag state.
So if the flag state were one of convenience where cocaine and hooking and blackjack are all legal, then this would work, right? Drugs are semi-legal in Portugal, though they'd frown upon a boat full of a what is basically a rolling orgy with clouds of white powder in the air everywhere as I am imagining it. (the airplane scene in Wolf of Wall Street)

Last edited by SamuelA; 12-28-2017 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:19 AM
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:21 AM
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Even with an army of security the ship would attract pirates.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:29 AM
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The ship is going to have to be supplied by someone from somewhere. That means at some point the supplier (and the supply) will be in some nation's territory. The local authorities could simply board and search every ship and shoot down every drone while they're still in territorial waters.

Even a rogue state is going to be interested in huge supplies of cocaine leaving their ports, if only because the government wants to be sure it's getting its cut.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:33 AM
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Long range drones could deliver the cocaine. And the women could turn into a pizza after sex.

maybe it's all the cocaine i did but I'm going to have to pass on that prostitute pizza.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:48 AM
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Long range drones could deliver the cocaine. And the women could turn into a pizza after sex.
From where? You'd have to source your coke from a country where it's legal to manufacture it (and of course it would also need to be legal in the country where the ship is registered).
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:57 AM
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From where? You'd have to source your coke from a country where it's legal to manufacture it (and of course it would also need to be legal in the country where the ship is registered).
What if you grew it on the ocean? Admittedly this sounds rather expensive, though maybe you could genetically engineer the coca plant for higher yields or make the drug using genetically engineered yeast...
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:11 PM
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:17 PM
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I do wonder then why there apparently aren't any Freemen of the Ocean types out there...
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:20 PM
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Schnitte already answered that. If you're a "freeman on the ocean", then instead of being subject to the whims of one government, you're subject to the whims of all of them.
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:11 PM
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What if you grew it on the ocean? Admittedly this sounds rather expensive, though maybe you could genetically engineer the coca plant for higher yields or make the drug using genetically engineered yeast...
Who would be protecting this Field of Dreams, and what country would you report any theft/invasion to?
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:34 PM
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Who would be protecting this Field of Dreams, and what country would you report any theft/invasion to?
Well, it would have to be a country that has legalized drugs and recreational use. You'd protect it with armed security and keeping the actual drugs in a locked vault. Sure, 10-20 men with AR-15s aren't going to be able to stop pirates that show up in a destroyer, but it probably would be enough security if the boat were off the coast of Georgia or something.
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:47 PM
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Well, it would have to be a country that has legalized drugs and recreational use
If there were a country like this, why would you need the boat?
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:52 PM
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If there were a country like this, why would you need the boat?
Because, factoring the cost of building, maintaining and securing the operation into the equation, you could make your money back in no time!
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:00 PM
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Because, factoring the cost of building, maintaining and securing the operation into the equation, you could make your money back in no time!
I mean usually vice does pay, and coke and hookers are very expensive commodities. Neither can be obtained easily in high quality forms inside the USA, because they are illegal, and illegal goods merchants have little incentive for quality control.

So you could offer a boat full of the hottest hookers and pure uncut Columbian and for less cost than it costs stateside. Park that boat outside of New York Harbor or LA and let the good times roll.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:07 PM
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I mean usually vice does pay, and coke and hookers are very expensive commodities. Neither can be obtained easily in high quality forms inside the USA, because they are illegal, and illegal goods merchants have little incentive for quality control.

So you could offer a boat full of the hottest hookers and pure uncut Columbian and for less cost than it costs stateside. Park that boat outside of New York Harbor or LA and let the good times roll.
1. How far off-coast are you proposing to put this island of iniquity?
2. Why would anyone risk going to Hooker Blowland when it's a certainty they will be picked off by the Coast Guard when they try to return home?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 12-28-2017 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:15 PM
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1. How far off-coast are you proposing to put this island of iniquity?
2. Why would anyone risk going to Hooker Blowland when it's a certainty they will be picked off by the Coast Guard when they try to return home?
In all fairness, the Coast Guard would find us tired, broke, hung over and half asleep.

I'd be more worried about all the entries from officials stamping my passport every time I visited the SS Hooker.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:16 PM
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So you could offer a boat full of the hottest hookers and pure uncut Columbian and for less cost than it costs stateside. Park that boat outside of New York Harbor or LA and let the good times roll.
You do know that high seas isn't a literal term?
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:27 PM
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Heading out 14 miles(12 nautical) is not an easy jaunt.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:38 PM
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Heading out 14 miles(12 nautical) is not an easy jaunt.
Couldn't you shuttle people back and forth to the SS Blow in some kind of speedboat ferry? If it hits 20 to 30 knots, that's only a 20-30 minute or so ride. You could have some of the hooker girls (and guys) in bikinis serving cocktails and generally working the crowd on the ferry until it's legal for them to do more...

Last edited by SamuelA; 12-28-2017 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:40 PM
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1. How far off-coast are you proposing to put this island of iniquity?
2. Why would anyone risk going to Hooker Blowland when it's a certainty they will be picked off by the Coast Guard when they try to return home?
1. Barely outside territorial limits. Say +1 mile, so if the boat drifts a little it won't cross the line.

2. The people coming back don't have anything illegal on them and are not doing anything illegal on the trip back. Same concept with gamblers.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:44 PM
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1. Barely outside territorial limits. Say +1 mile, so if the boat drifts a little it won't cross the line.

2. The people coming back don't have anything illegal on them and are not doing anything illegal on the trip back. Same concept with gamblers.
There won't be any trace of coke on the ferry.
Right.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:45 PM
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1. Barely outside territorial limits. Say +1 mile, so if the boat drifts a little it won't cross the line.

2. The people coming back don't have anything illegal on them and are not doing anything illegal on the trip back. Same concept with gamblers.
Boat? I thought you were proposing a permanent structure and/or field of some sort?
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:49 PM
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Boat? I thought you were proposing a permanent structure and/or field of some sort?
Which post did I say that? I compared it to existing gambling boats, which are cruise ships for gambling that hang out outside the territorial limit.

If you were going to grow the drugs onboard, it would have to be inside vats of genetically engineered yeast or something. Obviously something compact, highly productive, without using sunlight. (feed the yeast sugar for energy)

Last edited by SamuelA; 12-28-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:58 PM
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If this ship of yours existed, what type of ship might it be? Did you have a specific craft in mind?
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:59 PM
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It's also possible for a country like the US to pass laws prohibiting travel for purposes of engaging in acts that are illegal within the country. This has already been done for child prostitution, and there's no reason it couldn't also be done for this.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:02 PM
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If this ship of yours existed, what type of ship might it be? Did you have a specific craft in mind?
A tramp steamer.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:07 PM
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You could probably skirt any legal issues with prostitution if you used monkubines...though you profit margins would probably take a hit.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:07 PM
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I do wonder then why there apparently aren't any Freemen of the Ocean types out there...
Shh!! Be careful or you'll summon them Beetlejuice style and we'll never be rid of their wild-eyed rantings. They're far worse than the Sovereign Citizens Upon The Land.

For sure there have been several proposals to build floating arcologies that would just happen to provide a tax-free domicile for the uber-rich. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Ship as an example.

I think they've all foundered (heh ) on the rocks of who will protect them from pirates? Surely not those same countries whose tax laws they're aggressively flouting?
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:09 PM
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A tramp steamer.
It would be raided, stripped and sunk within 10 days.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:20 PM
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It would be raided, stripped and sunk within 10 days.
It'd be "blown" away.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:26 PM
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It's also possible for a country like the US to pass laws prohibiting travel for purposes of engaging in acts that are illegal within the country. This has already been done for child prostitution, and there's no reason it couldn't also be done for this.
Oh, because gambling is legal under Federal law this works, while illegal under most state laws. Ohhh....

Prostitution is legal under federal law, while recreational drug use is not.

Huh. So that's why there are gambling cruise ships but not cruise ships with more sin than just that.

Last edited by SamuelA; 12-28-2017 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:28 PM
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Oh, because gambling is legal under Federal law this works, while illegal under most state laws. Ohhh....

Prostitution is legal under federal law, while recreational drug use is not.

Huh. So that's why there are gambling cruise ships but not cruise ships with more sin than just that.
This ship you are proposing-Can you think of any reasons why it doesn't exist yet?
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:30 PM
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The misery trade loves company, but hates competition. Those laws you are proposing to skirt are the only things that would keep you alive if you attempted this.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:39 PM
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It would be raided, stripped and sunk within 10 days.
Catboat?
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:42 PM
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This ship you are proposing-Can you think of any reasons why it doesn't exist yet?
Could be a lot of reasons. A cruise ship is an expensive asset and a new business is risky. In most cities, the cops leave the independent hookers, aka 'escorts', more or less alone. They go after organized brothels but it's too much effort to go after individual women. In most cities, anyone who wants illegal drugs can get them readily and the quality isn't terrible, they are just expensive.

So maybe I'm overestimating market demand, or maybe the financiers for a project like this wouldn't want to take the risk. After all, if there were a big public outrage, Congress could just pass some new federal laws the effectively put this kind of thing out of business. The general american public sees paid sex and illegal drug use as much worse sins than mere gambling.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:46 PM
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This ship you are proposing-Can you think of any reasons why it doesn't exist yet?
Not the Op, but i would wag that they really don't need to go offshore and there are lots of establishments flying under the radar or behind the veil of secrecy to supply what ever is desired.
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:12 PM
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It has been done. Sounds like the "Booze Cruises" that were popular during prohibition in the US.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:10 PM
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There are booze cruises that ply routes across the Baltic sea from the prohibitionist alcohol restrictions found in Sweden. They are very popular with alcoholics, however the antics of these passengers do not make them the favourite tourists in the ports of neighbouring countries.

There is gambling and a range of cheap tobacco products. But whether they get up to anything else on their voyage to oblivion is open to question. Not much high octane glamour with these cheapskates.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:15 PM
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Not the Op, but i would wag that they really don't need to go offshore and there are lots of establishments flying under the radar or behind the veil of secrecy to supply what ever is desired.
Exactly. Plus, discretion is important here. I don't see much discretion when everyone is doing illegal stuff....right over there! On that boat!
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:33 PM
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Exactly what ports are you docking these boats laden with cocaine and hookers at for passenger loading?

Because that will probably be the boats first and last stop in probably most countries in the world.

And i am guessing a boat filled with cocaine and people with money for hookers would be a wonderful target for modern pirates?
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:30 PM
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Exactly what ports are you docking these boats laden with cocaine and hookers at for passenger loading?

Because that will probably be the boats first and last stop in probably most countries in the world.

And i am guessing a boat filled with cocaine and people with money for hookers would be a wonderful target for modern pirates?
So the idea is, it's a cruise ship. It stops in port and gets a bunch of passengers and ahem, independent contractor staff. It then chugs out just over the limit into international waters.

Another boat comes up with the drugs. Party commences. Latecomers and early leavers board a ferry boat that makes a daily run back and forth. This is also how you keep the ship supplied.

Once it's time to bring the cruise ship in for cleanup and maintenance, any remaining drugs are offloaded. The boat is pressure washed of any white powder and other residues. It is then brought into port and the cycle continues.

It's gonna be just offshore a major U.S. city and would have some armed security. Pirates would have a tough time. Not impossible, but tough.

So other smaller boats act like "drug holders", and those boats stay permanently offshore or get sent back to the host country they are flagged from. Which does have to legalize drugs for this to work, which might be one reason no one has done this.

Last edited by SamuelA; 12-28-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:51 PM
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Why would anyone make this investment knowing the US can and likely would change their laws in order to shut it down?
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:27 PM
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Why would anyone make this investment knowing the US can and likely would change their laws in order to shut it down?
You're right. Plus, the elites who control our government - don't they get to have all the coke and hookers and blackjack they want?
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:36 AM
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So if the flag state were one of convenience where cocaine and hooking and blackjack are all legal, then this would work, right? Drugs are semi-legal in Portugal, though they'd frown upon a boat full of a what is basically a rolling orgy with clouds of white powder in the air everywhere as I am imagining it. (the airplane scene in Wolf of Wall Street)
It would work to the extent all the objectionable activities take place (i) on your flag-of-connvenience vessel and (ii) in international waters. Of course the international waters would have to be truly international, i.e., what is called the "high seas" in legal terminology. That is much farther out than one might think: The days of the three-mile zone are over; nowadays you have an entitlement of coastal states to territorial waters of at least twelve miles (plus more depending on the geography of the waters in question; for instance, there are cases where an entire bay or gulf can be claimed as territorial waters by the coastal state even if the opposing ends of the gulf are further apart than 24 miles). And that is only the territorial sea; on top of that, you have the continental shelf and the exclusive economic zone, which extend much further than the territorial sea. Coastal state jurisdiction is more limited there than in the territorial waters, but in your scenario the coastal state would likely intervene. Wikipedia has a diagram explaining these concepts.

So you'd have to go really far out to be in truly international waters. Suppose you manage to do that. While there, you'd still be under the jurisdiction of the flag state, but suppose you find a flag of convenience that doesn't care (which is unlikely - they would soon find themselves under foreign pressure to do something about it, but let's just assume they don't). You'd still have to get the hookers and cocaine on your ship, and that would require to call at a harbour every now and then. At that point you'd enter territorial waters of countries that take objection at what you're doing. You're saying that at that point you're not engaged in illicit activities because the prostitution etc is not yet going on (which might be true for prostitution, but certainly not for the possession of drugs); but that doesn't matter: You're in the coastal state's territorial waters, not on the high seas, and that means you're not benefitting from freedom of navigation, you're only benefitting from the right of innocent passage. That is much narrower and allows the coastal state to interfere with activities that go beyond innocent passage. Article 19 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (which the U.S. has not ratified but is still adhering to as a matter of practice) defines what "innocent passage" is, and your activities can be argued to go beyond. So the coastal state could interfere with what you're doing as soon as you enter its territorial waters.
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Last edited by Schnitte; 12-29-2017 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:47 AM
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You guys all suck. I am dying from alcoholism but would LOVE to go out this way.Even coke on land is too expensive for me.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:39 AM
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You guys all suck. I am dying from alcoholism but would LOVE to go out this way.Even coke on land is too expensive for me.
And that's the problem with this truly idiotic plan. You know what drugs cost. Do you think that adding a cruise ship with a network of supply vessels to bring drugs aboard will lower the price of drugs; or increase it? It will cost as much as drugs cost, plus as much as a cruise costs.

People who can afford drugs have no problems acquiring them; it's the poor people scrambling to scrape up their daily dose that have issues. You've seen the mug shots of the drug addicts arrested in your local newspapers; do any of them look like they're taking a lot of cruises?
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