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  #651  
Old 08-16-2017, 11:05 PM
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Didn't think of that. I'll try it.



I've got 261 million helium and 280% challenge2 bonus. My highest zone is 223.
I definitely didn't complete the Spire until I was in Lava. I had at least 300m He, if not more. Looting 2 is not that big of a deal to waste a bunch of time on. It will eventually be a big deal, but when you first get it you won't have enough spare Helium to do much with it. The only other reward is to say you did it, and I guess read some more of the horrendously lame story that kinda ends there.
  #652  
Old 08-17-2017, 02:14 AM
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Meanwhile I'm working on a world record Youtube video instead of playing games with no graphics haha.
  #653  
Old 08-17-2017, 02:49 AM
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Meanwhile I'm working on a world record Youtube video instead of playing games with no graphics haha.
...and?
  #654  
Old 08-17-2017, 02:52 AM
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Meanwhile I'm working on a world record Youtube video instead of playing games with no graphics haha.
What ?!? are you in the new 576 hours of "Shame" ?

  #655  
Old 08-19-2017, 09:27 PM
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You get 2 new equipments when you complete the Slow challenge, unlocked at zone 130.
Thank you!

I have established that running Slow as a challenge2 will not, in fact, kill two birds with one stone.
  #656  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:26 PM
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My new favorite Daily Challenge:
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You have the 2017-09-10 Daily challenge active.

- Trimps have 180% more attack on even numbered zones
- Enemies gain a stack of Bloodthirst whenever Trimps die. Every 5 stacks, enemies will heal to full and gain an additive 50% attack. Stacks cap at 20 and reset after killing an enemy.
- Enemies have a 22% chance to dodge your attacks on odd zones.
- Enemy health in maps increased by 90%.
- Equipment is 45.0% cheaper.
- Enemies have a 80% chance to reflect an attack, dealing 80% of damage taken back to your Trimps.

Challenge has no end point, and grants an additional 334% of all helium earned before finishing.
The cheap equipment and extra trimp attack more than make up for the negatives. Bloodlust is no big deal - just run a map and the world enemy's bloodlust returns to 0. The Reflected attack kept things slow for the first hour, but eventually my health is orders of magnitude higher than my attack, so it has no effect on late gameplay.

I'm 30 hours in, and about to reach a new Highest Zone Ever with the challenge still running.
  #657  
Old 09-23-2017, 12:25 PM
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Can anyone explain the Blacksmithery II Mastery to me? (No, I'm not there yet, just reading ahead.) Does it mean you only have to run the map once to get all the available upgrades?
  #658  
Old 09-23-2017, 12:34 PM
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The blacksmithery masteries allow you to get prestiges without running maps; they just show up among your available upgrades when you reach a new world zone, allowing you to speed through the zones without pausing for map running. The effect is limited based on the highest world zone you have ever reached: if you've ever reached zone 300, then Blacksmithery I gives you prestiges automatically up to zone 150, and Blacksmitery II up to 225.
  #659  
Old 09-26-2017, 03:03 AM
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The update that dropped today includes a new achievement for completing Dimension of Anger within 1 minute from the start of the run.

I don't wanna know how many levels of Overkill you'd need to make that happen.
  #660  
Old 09-26-2017, 03:35 AM
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I think you'd need Hyperspeed I & II on the Mastery tab. Maybe Portal Generator, too.

Overkill doubles your speed on lower zones. Increasing it won't make you any faster, but it will make the double speed last to higher zones.
  #661  
Old 09-26-2017, 03:54 AM
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Also, I just portalled, and it started me at zone 12. Not sure why, or how to increase starting zone. Maybe it will eventually start me on zone 20, and I can go straight to the map.
  #662  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:23 PM
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That would be the liquification thing:
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Each Spire you clear (including the old one at Z200) now permanently alters your portal device, causing you to liquify zones equal to 5% of your Highest Zone Cleared per unique spire cleared.
You've beaten the (first) Spire, and the highest level you have reached is about 240, I'm guessing.
The liquified zones do not disappear, instead it appears that they get compressed into a single enemy (a Liquimp), which gives you the various things you'd get from beating the zone normally.
  #663  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:39 PM
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and the highest level you have reached is about 240, I'm guessing.
235.

Thanks for the info.
  #664  
Old 09-30-2017, 10:07 PM
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181. Phew! at last. But holy Mhuira, Mother of Og, does everything get hard all of a sudden! ! ! I've got to go all the way down to 174 just to farm efficiently. And I scored a 181 level map at 76% difficulty - still couldn't get off the first square! ! !

I hate to portal, because I waited to do my void maps here. I'll leave it farming overnight, and maybe things will be looking up in the morning. . . :-(
  #665  
Old 09-30-2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I think you'd need Hyperspeed I & II on the Mastery tab. Maybe Portal Generator, too.

Overkill doubles your speed on lower zones. Increasing it won't make you any faster, but it will make the double speed last to higher zones.
I'm guessing that doing Anger in a minute basically requires liquifying the first 20 levels. By the time you're doing that, the one level of overkill you'll need will be utterly trivial, and you'll almost certainly have both hyperspeeds.

I don't think Portal Generator is relevant, as the achievement requires completion of DoA, not skipping it.
  #666  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:46 PM
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RE: Map size vs total loot

I'm running the Mapology challenge2, which means I can't farm maps; I can only run one map per level. Normally, I make a map as small as possible in order to pick up all the equipment upgrades in as few passes as possible. But in the case of limited runs, is it to my advantage loot-wise to make a larger map?

IOW is the total amount of loot on a level 100 map set by the map, and then divided among whatever number of cells I'm willing to pay for? Or is the amount of loot set by the individual cell, resulting in more overall loot per run in a larger sized map?

Anybody know?
  #667  
Old 10-02-2017, 01:11 PM
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Larger maps give more loot. Loot is not diluted in any way by larger maps. There's actually a slight boost based on cell number (cell 100 of a map or zone gives about 25% more loot than cell 1).
  #668  
Old 10-07-2017, 01:32 AM
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It looks like you'll need to clear the level 500 spire to be able to do imploded star in 5 minutes. It'll require at least 150 liquimps as you only have time for 20 complete zones (really less than 20 - the 150 liquimps is 3 more zones of guys too), which you'll have if you get both masteries and clear the level 500 spire for 30% at (at least) zone 500. So I guess it's still in the range that he's written story for, if not still many months ahead of grinding helium into the quadrillions most likely.
  #669  
Old 10-07-2017, 11:37 AM
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So I guess it's still in the range that he's written story for, if not still many months ahead of grinding helium into the quadrillions most likely.
Likely a hundred or so quadrillion. I'm at 16.7e15, and managed to push to z476 this week. I'm adjusting to not buying any nurseries until z450 this time, to see if it gets me much more. If I can't get to z480 reasonably, I'm going to go back through my Challenge2s, which are mostly all at z400 to squeeze more blood from this stone.
  #670  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:35 AM
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Finally beat the first Spire! Now just stuck on 233 every damn game
  #671  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:43 PM
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Finally beat the first Spire! Now just stuck on 233 every damn game
Hey, me too! Well, the Spire part anyway. My highest zone is stuck at 231. Maybe Looting II will finally get me moving.

I used the Lead Challenge2 to prepare for the spire. Ran it up to Zone 199 cell 95, then farmed the level 200 Bionic overnight with Lead's double resources from all sources. Then in the morning I ran Trimple of Doom to double my metal to 50 Spd, bought a handful of Arbalests and Gambesons, easily ran level 215 Bionic with the attack boost from Lead, upgraded equipment to XLI and XLII, bought 20 minutes worth of Geneticists, respec'd for maximum attack and Coordination, and abandoned the Challenge2. I planned to run the Spire just as far as the Gigastation drop at cell 20, but ended up completing the whole thing with no deaths.

Now the perk calculator at zvx.nero.run is suggesting I redirect 27% of my Helium to Looting II, at the expense of Coordinated and Carpentry. So far I don't like it. Thoughts, anyone?
  #672  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:41 PM
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Now the perk calculator at zvx.nero.run is suggesting I redirect 27% of my Helium to Looting II, at the expense of Coordinated and Carpentry. So far I don't like it. Thoughts, anyone?
Yeah, I noticed that too. If you change the amount of helium you have, it changes as well. Maybe it is saying go for max looting until you have over 1B helium and then change?
  #673  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:44 PM
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Likely a hundred or so quadrillion. I'm at 16.7e15, and managed to push to z476 this week. I'm adjusting to not buying any nurseries until z450 this time, to see if it gets me much more. If I can't get to z480 reasonably, I'm going to go back through my Challenge2s, which are mostly all at z400 to squeeze more blood from this stone.
I generally don't buy nurseries unless I "need" them: when I have no way to survive a strike without increasing my Health via Geneticists and thus Nurseries, or at least when the progress without more HP is entirely too slow and I have plenty available still to buy. I tend to end up with more unbought or at least complete overkill when I decide to portal because of being conservative with using them, so I'm slowly becoming less conservative in using them.

As for Challenge2, I have them staggered so that there's a continuum between how close the most recently run and the least recently run ones are to my maximum level. I update the one last run when I think I can get far enough to hit a certain increase which slowly goes up as I get farther based on my total bonus.
  #674  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:28 AM
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I must be doing something right. Beat the time achievements for the first Spire except for the last one the other night, without even trying to. And this morning, beat the Spire with no losses!

Up to 245 as well.
  #675  
Old 10-18-2017, 04:20 PM
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So I've gotten to the point now where I'm into Corruption and I can make it a few zones in before the going gets too slow. Is it worth scrying for Dark Essence yet, or should I wait until I can get to higher zones where it drops more than one unit at a time? I've managed to score enough of it to unlock my first mastery (I went with the turkimp one since that looked the most useful for speeding through the first stage of a run) - what else is most useful of what's available to me or will be soon?
  #676  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:15 AM
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These are the 3 I got in the first row so I don't have to run those maps to get them now:

Portal Generator - Automatically unlock Portal after clearing level 20. Also grants the 45 He.
Bounty Hunter - Automatically unlock Bounty after clearing level 15
Home Detector - Automatically unlock Mansion, Hotel, Nursery, Resort, Gateway, Wormhole and Collector after clearing the zone they drop at.
  #677  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:29 AM
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So I've gotten to the point now where I'm into Corruption and I can make it a few zones in before the going gets too slow.
What is your progress on Challenge2? This is a really good time to get them upgraded to start a new push through Corruption.
  #678  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:12 PM
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What is your progress on Challenge2? This is a really good time to get them upgraded to start a new push through Corruption.
I'm only at 95% right now. There's a few I haven't attempted yet.
  #679  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:28 PM
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Portal Generator is popular, but I haven't gotten it yet. There's never a rush to get the portal, so I just run the map at my convenience during a run. I'll run it for prestiges on a regular run, or save it for later if I'm doing a speed run.

Here's the order I got Masteries in:
1. Bounty Hunter
2. Home Detector (these first two helped with speed runs and made the early game less hassle)
3. Turkimp Trainer I (just to get a 3rd useful one from the 1st row)

Unlocked 2nd row:
4. Headstart I
5. Foremany (didn't seem like a big deal, but I love it)
6. Metallic Coat
7. Void Power I

Unlocked 3rd row:
8. Headstart II
9. Map Reducer I

I'm really looking forward to Blacksmithery and Autostructure. Hopefully then I can progress thru all the low-helium zones without having to constantly manage maps and builds for a couple hours.
  #680  
Old 11-05-2017, 04:57 PM
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How does autostructure work? How does it decide which structures to build?

I mean, I hope it doesn't use all my metal for warpstations when I need it for weapons upgrades.

Is it worth having? I'd have to purchase Double Build first, which doesn't seem terribly important. It's therefore a pretty expensive purchase.
  #681  
Old 11-05-2017, 05:09 PM
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You control it by setting limits on how many of each building to construct and how large a fraction (down to 0.1%) of your current resources it may use to build something. I rate it quite highly: it's one of the things making it possible for me to start a run and then come back two hours later and be at zone 400. I'd have to do a lot more micromanagement without it. It's less useful if you still need to use Gigastations to reach the magma though, since it does not automate that.
  #682  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:08 AM
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I hate you people. I have enough time sucks in my life already. Now I'm slogging through my first run, already impatient for my first portal.
  #683  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:42 AM
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Some pretty big content updates today. Some of them are for the higher levels (I'm only in the lower 190s at this point), but one big change is that there are some new and expensive customization options for maps that actually make fragments worth caring about once you outgrow Gateways.
  #684  
Old 11-30-2017, 07:08 PM
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I curse Idle Thoughts with the intensity of 1000 suns for mentioning this game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  #685  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:06 PM
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Brr
Bring a world enemy's attack below 1
Reward: +40% Damage


I'm not sure what this means, or how to do it. Any hints?
  #686  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:12 PM
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It relates to the nature empowerments that unlock a short ways into the magma.
  #687  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:36 AM
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Brr
Bring a world enemy's attack below 1
Reward: +40% Damage


I'm not sure what this means, or how to do it. Any hints?
I did this one. You need to keep an enemy alive for a lot of hits while the Ice empowerment is active.

My Chill debuff is 4.9%. Was done with a run, ready to portal, and was in an Ice empowerment zone. Killed world enemies until I got to one with Corrupted Toughness. Then I switched to Health formation and re-spec'd to 0 Power and 0 Power-II. After 3800 fights with the same enemy, I had the achievement. Then I put my Power and Power-II back to their previous levels and portalled.
  #688  
Old 12-12-2017, 01:14 PM
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Headstart only affects corruption/helium, not dark essence. The key thing to realise is that the amount of corruption in a zone is based on how many zones past the start of corruption it is. So the mastery doesn't just give extra helium on zones 175 - 179, where the helium amounts are small, but also every zone past that. The headstart sequence are among the best masteries, in my opinion.

. . .
I've seen hints online that Headstart I makes the Spire harder. Anybody know why? Does it increase the number of corrupted cells?
  #689  
Old 12-12-2017, 01:15 PM
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I did this one. You need to keep an enemy alive for a lot of hits while the Ice empowerment is active.

My Chill debuff is 4.9%. Was done with a run, ready to portal, and was in an Ice empowerment zone. Killed world enemies until I got to one with Corrupted Toughness. Then I switched to Health formation and re-spec'd to 0 Power and 0 Power-II. After 3800 fights with the same enemy, I had the achievement. Then I put my Power and Power-II back to their previous levels and portalled.
Interesting. I'll try that.

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I've seen hints online that Headstart I makes the Spire harder. Anybody know why? Does it increase the number of corrupted cells?
Yes, it does. But corrupted cells are not as hard to beat as the later rows, so it doesn't make a lot of difference, if any.

Last edited by Peter Morris; 12-12-2017 at 01:18 PM.
  #690  
Old 12-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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I've seen hints online that Headstart I makes the Spire harder. Anybody know why? Does it increase the number of corrupted cells?
Yes, that's why. By the time you're beating the Spire, the corrupted enemies are trivial compared to the 9th and 10th rows of the spire. But the first army of trimps will take a few hits of Corrupted Sharpness. Headstart gives you more corrupted cells in more rows of the Spire, so there's a chance that your first Spire army will be killed or weakened.
  #691  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:07 PM
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Okay, that worked, and it pushed my achievement bonus above the magic 2000%, so a double thank you there.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:27 AM
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Talk to me about how you spend your nullifium.

As I understand it, nullifium is hard to lose. If you use it to upgrade a shield/staff element, and then later you get a better shield and recycle it, you get all of that nullifium back to do with as you please. The only way to lose it is to upgrade an element, and then delete that element to replace it.

I'm only up to level 210 though, and haven't beaten the spire yet. So my question is a) Is there another use for nullfium later on which will make me wish I hadn't spent it? and b) How do you prioritize your spending? Attack or Crit? Crit chance or damage? That sort of thing.

Any thoughts/advice?
  #693  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:31 AM
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And speaking of heirlooms, has anyone else noticed a weird shift in chance once you start running voids at 181? Up til then I got maybe one staff for every 8 or 10 shields. Now I've won three ethereal staffs, but still only magnificent shields (250-ish shields). Is this just coincidence, or is there some weird tweak in the formula?

Last edited by TruCelt; 12-13-2017 at 10:32 AM.
  #694  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:48 AM
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Talk to me about how you spend your nullifium.

As I understand it, nullifium is hard to lose. If you use it to upgrade a shield/staff element, and then later you get a better shield and recycle it, you get all of that nullifium back to do with as you please. The only way to lose it is to upgrade an element, and then delete that element to replace it.

I'm only up to level 210 though, and haven't beaten the spire yet. So my question is a) Is there another use for nullfium later on which will make me wish I hadn't spent it? and b) How do you prioritize your spending? Attack or Crit? Crit chance or damage? That sort of thing.

Any thoughts/advice?
a) Not that I know of. I'm up to zone 305, and Nullifium is so far only for modding and upgrading Heirlooms.

b) Attack first. Then crit damage and crit chance. Then health. Actually, I like having 2 shields: one with Attack/Crit/Void chance and the other with Attack/Crit/Health. I use the first until I am ready to run voids, and then I switch to the second.

Block/trainers might be nice while you're in the low 200s, but as you get deep into the magma you'll have plenty of block for all of your void maps without using an heirloom.

Quote:
And speaking of heirlooms, has anyone else noticed a weird shift in chance once you start running voids at 181? Up til then I got maybe one staff for every 8 or 10 shields. Now I've won three ethereal staffs, but still only magnificent shields (250-ish shields). Is this just coincidence, or is there some weird tweak in the formula?
I'm gonna say coincidence. On my current run I've earned 5 shields and 7 staffs. One shield is blue; all the rest are orange. The probability of ethereal goes up at 181 IIRC, but I think shields/staffs remain 50/50.
  #695  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:34 PM
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I mostly agree with Rhodes. I'd add regarding the magma that before it you'll have lots of health from nurseries, making additional health less valuable, which is the other half of why block can be preferable at that point. Block won't help you beat the spire though, so health can still be what you want.

Void map drop chance is good. The way it's presented in game is quite misleading though. 10% void map drop chance does not mean that your chance of getting a void map is 10% higher when the game checks if you should get one.

The way it works is this: every time you get a void map (or at the start of the run), there is a minimum number of world enemies you have to kill before you can get another. Once you reach that threshold the chance of getting a void map is proportional to how many enemies you've killed past the threshold. "10% void map drop chance" reduces that threshold by 10%, which is generally better than increasing the odds of getting one one the random check would be.
It also means that the scaling on this modifier gets better the higher it is instead of worse. Increasing your damage modifier from 0% to 10% increases your damage by 10%, but increasing it from 100% to 110% increases it by 5%; it gets worse. Increasing your void map drop chance from 0% to 5% decreases the minimum kills by 5%, but increasing it from 50% to 55% decreases the minimum kills by 10%; it gets better. Golden void upgrades work the same way.

A side note is that stack transfer rate for nature empowerments are basically pointless at low levels but really good at high levels by similar logic.

For heirloom modifiers, I don't think it's worth replacing any before getting to the top tier and wanting to build a perfect heirloom, but filling in an empty slot (which is much cheaper) on an otherwise good shield is generally worthwhile.
  #696  
Old 12-13-2017, 05:42 PM
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I'm only up to level 210 though, and haven't beaten the spire yet.

To beat the spire first time I had to grind for days. The trick is to get weapons and armour from zone 215 Bionic Wonderland. You'll probably need to grind until you've bought all the available upgrades.

Possibly it would have gone a lot quicker with the new map options.
  #697  
Old 12-14-2017, 12:10 AM
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. . .

For heirloom modifiers, I don't think it's worth replacing any before getting to the top tier and wanting to build a perfect heirloom, but filling in an empty slot (which is much cheaper) on an otherwise good shield is generally worthwhile.
See, I've heard this philosophy before, and it makes no sense to me. Why would you not pick up an extra 35% attack or 15% crit chance, when the nullifium is just sitting there begging to be used? When you get a better heirloom, you just recycle it and get the nullifium back to improve on the new one.

What's the point of leaving it in the bank?
  #698  
Old 12-14-2017, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
To beat the spire first time I had to grind for days. The trick is to get weapons and armour from zone 215 Bionic Wonderland. You'll probably need to grind until you've bought all the available upgrades.

Possibly it would have gone a lot quicker with the new map options.
Not sure why the quote tag in your post shows my name and not TruCelt.

But I agree. I beat the spire when my highest zone was 231 and my coordination at zone 200 was (+20). It took a couple days to earn metal and complete Bionic level 215. Now I bet it's easier to farm some Large Metal Chests and then run a lvl 205 map for prestiges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
See, I've heard this philosophy before, and it makes no sense to me. Why would you not pick up an extra 35% attack or 15% crit chance, when the nullifium is just sitting there begging to be used? When you get a better heirloom, you just recycle it and get the nullifium back to improve on the new one.

What's the point of leaving it in the bank?
Don't leave it in the bank. Go ahead and upgrade as much as you can. You'll get the nullifium back when you recycle. But adding a mod to an empty slot costs 2x nullifium, non-refundable. And replacing a mod with another mod costs 6x nullifium, non-refundable (and also destroys any nullifium that you'd spent on the previous mod). That's probably OK if you have an ethereal heirloom and don't anticipate getting any magmatic heirlooms in the near future. http://trimps.wikia.com/wiki/Heirloo...lifium_refunds

Last edited by Rhodes; 12-14-2017 at 12:47 AM. Reason: add wikia link
  #699  
Old 12-19-2017, 05:34 PM
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Has anyone tried the Nerfed achievement yet? "Beat the Spire with no respect and less than 100M HE Spent." Any tips?

Or Bionic Sniper? "Complete a Bionic Wonderland map 45 levels higher than your zone number." I think the trick to that one may be to do it at zone 245 with a fuckton of Coordinated perk, taking care to keep the Dimensional Generator tank full with no waste all the way from 230 to 245. I'm going to try with 40 Coordinated, but I'm not optimistic.
  #700  
Old 12-19-2017, 05:47 PM
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I tried (and failed) Nerfed, using this perk optimizer to measure out 100M helium so I didn't have to count by hand. I think my mistake was focusing attack over health by 50 to 1. This lead to not being able to run high enough Bionic Wonderland to get the needed prestiges. So next time I'll try with more health.

I've done Bionic Sniper, but don't have any real tips; I have enough Coordinated and Dimensional Generator upgrades to buy all coordinations as soon as I get them, and that makes it easy.
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