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Old 08-15-2012, 08:43 PM
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New book by two Dopers - the truth about vaccines


Two fed-up dopers share with you all we've learned about vaccines. We have no ties to the pharmaceutical companies. We're simply two ordinary people sick and tired of arguing with the wrong people about this subject over and over again.

We'll show you: Why Andrew Wakefield was in the wrong from the very start -- What life was like before vaccines -- What's in a vaccine (and what isn't) -- What's behind the so-called epidemic of autism -- Exactly what's wrong with the really bad anti-vax websites -- Where to find the good sources to use in an argument -- How they test vaccines for safety -- What you can do to help reduce true vaccine reactions.

Two hundred and twenty pages of footnoted, double-checked, multi-sourced, Paul Offit/Respectful Insolence-endorsed honest and accurate information about one of the vitally important subjects of our time. A must for any parent and anyone else interested in vaccines.

Available on Kindle starting tomorrow, and available for pre-order in hardcover:

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Babys-Bes.../dp/144221578X

Last edited by Kolga; 08-15-2012 at 08:43 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:22 PM
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Whew! I thought this was going to be the TRUTH about vaccines and autism (which didn't EXIST before vaccines) and St. Wakefield.

Good on ya for debunking the above pack of BS.
  #3  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:33 PM
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Whew! I thought this was going to be the TRUTH about vaccines and autism (which didn't EXIST before vaccines) and St. Wakefield.

Good on ya for debunking the above pack of BS.
We think Wakefield ought to be shot. And eaten.



Or fed to wolves. Or sent back in time to beg for forgiveness from smallpox victims. Or forced to tend to little kids with measles.

Failing that, a long jail sentence for scientific fraud and child abuse would be just fine.
  #4  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:27 PM
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Congrats. Hope you sell a lot of copies. It's too bad a book like this is needed for this purpose.
  #5  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kolga View Post
Two fed-up dopers share with you all we've learned about vaccines. We have no ties to the pharmaceutical companies. We're simply two ordinary people sick and tired of arguing with the wrong people about this subject over and over again.

We'll show you: Why Andrew Wakefield was in the wrong from the very start -- What life was like before vaccines -- What's in a vaccine (and what isn't) -- What's behind the so-called epidemic of autism -- Exactly what's wrong with the really bad anti-vax websites -- Where to find the good sources to use in an argument -- How they test vaccines for safety -- What you can do to help reduce true vaccine reactions.

Two hundred and twenty pages of footnoted, double-checked, multi-sourced, Paul Offit/Respectful Insolence-endorsed honest and accurate information about one of the vitally important subjects of our time. A must for any parent and anyone else interested in vaccines.

Available on Kindle starting tomorrow, and available for pre-order in hardcover:

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Babys-Bes.../dp/144221578X
Ummm I don't want to tell you how to sell books but when I took the link Amazon said there was only 1 book left in stock. Kind of a small first printing IMHO.
If it were me I probably would have them print at least a dozen.
Seriously congrats. Looks like you did a great job.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:39 PM
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Ummm I don't want to tell you how to sell books but when I took the link Amazon said there was only 1 book left in stock. Kind of a small first printing IMHO.
If it were me I probably would have them print at least a dozen.
Seriously congrats. Looks like you did a great job.
Thank you. Must be an Amazon glitch. I'll have to mention that to Rowman & Littlefield. We STILL haven't gotten our author's copies, grumble, grumble, grumble, whine, whine, whine.

I nearly fainted when Dr. Offit told us he loved the book. Offit was extremely helpful while we were writing the book. He answered our questions with great patience. One of my honest to god heroes.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:35 PM
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Any chance the parents of children who contract infectious diseases from an unvaccinated child could sue that rat bastard until his ears leak?
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:42 PM
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Any chance the parents of children who contract infectious diseases from an unvaccinated child could sue that rat bastard until his ears leak?
That fuckhead had the nerve to sue the British Journal of Medicine and two people for pointing out what a fuckhead he is. The lawsuit was just recently dismissed.
  #9  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:42 PM
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I read the pages available on Amazon and will read the book even though I don't have kids or any particular interest in the topic, just because you write well -- and of course because you're Dopers! Good luck. And it's good to see it's available on the Kindle right away too.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:45 PM
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LavenderBlue, I am proud to share a message board with you!
I wish you the very best and will be buying a copy this weekend.
And, I will be using it to convince some of my friends that they have been mislead for years by the antivax crowd.

GOOD JOB!
  #11  
Old 08-15-2012, 11:49 PM
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Send Phil Plait a copy, he hates the anti-vax crap and has a popular blog.
  #12  
Old 08-16-2012, 12:26 AM
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Send Phil Plait a copy, he hates the anti-vax crap and has a popular blog.
Thank you for that suggestion. I am donating my share of any profits to this website. Helping poor kids get vaccinated against measles is just wonderful work. I think that's what makes me craziest about anti-vaxxers: their pretense that nothing will happen if we stop vaccinating.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:17 AM
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Big congratulations!
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:22 AM
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Thanks for taking the trouble!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:42 AM
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I plan to order a copy and have it sent to the following address:

Jenny McCarthy
Jenny Mccarthy Productions
Bloom, Hergott and Diemer, Llp
150 S Rodeo Drive
3rd Floor
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:03 AM
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I plan to order a copy and have it sent to the following address:

Jenny McCarthy
Jenny Mccarthy Productions
Bloom, Hergott and Diemer, Llp
150 S Rodeo Drive
3rd Floor
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
I plan to take a monster-class poop and have it sent to the same address.
  #17  
Old 08-21-2012, 03:48 PM
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Nice review of the book on the Parents Magazine website:

Quote:
http://www.parents.com/blogs/mom-mus...pes-and-shots/

Written for parents who are pro-vaccine or who just want information about whatís in all of those kidsí shots, this book is a great resource.
Yeah!
  #18  
Old 08-21-2012, 06:45 PM
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Congratulations to both of you.

I was going to mention the book in an Amazon health forum discussion on vaccines, but the end result would probably be a pack of antivaxers posting negative reviews of the book without ever having read it.

So, how much did Big Pharma pay you to write it?
  #19  
Old 08-22-2012, 10:46 AM
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Nice review of the book on the Parents Magazine website
Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristen Kemp, Parents
This book is not for parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy.
I think that's exactly who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it's kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, "Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas."
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:27 PM
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Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says:
I think that's exactly who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it's kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, "Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas."
I agree.

We were aiming for two kinds of parents: those who don't know much about this subject and those who do. We wanted to provide the latter with the means to help combat the nutters. Both of us have spent hours and hours and hours arguing about this issue on various message boards. We approached the book from the POV of what the hell are the anti-vaccine arguments and how can we show they're wrong.

Many people who are pro-vaccine can find themselves confronted by anti-vaxxers and find themselves unsure about how to respond to their arguments. We wanted to help provide people with the tools to confront them effectively.

Inner Stickler,

We're not aiming for the true believers. I have and so has Allison. At one point I spent three days of my time at the anti-vax forum over at the now defunct Mothering Magazine boards. The boards still exist unforunately but the magazine has stop publication. I got one thank you note from an on the fencer and approximately fifty allegations of pHARMAshill, baby killing, crazy liar.

I try not to poke my toes in the crazy unless I have absolutely have to.

Mama Zappa,

We did not see any autoimmune links from vaccines. We found no evidence of a decrease in side effects from spacing out or delaying vaccines.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:06 AM
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Posted on my Facebook feed ... mainly to piss off an anti-vaxer I know, but hopefully it'll boost the signal.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:13 AM
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Congratulations, you guys. It sounds like a terrific book.
  #23  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:17 AM
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A much needed book. I've recommended it for purchase to our city library.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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the so-called epidemic of autism
I don't plan to buy or read your book but autism deniers are in the same class as the anti-vaxers IMO.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:02 AM
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I don't plan to buy or read your book but autism deniers are in the same class as the anti-vaxers IMO.
It's not a question of denial. It's two questions: is there really an epidemic of autism and if so what's fueling it?

We get into that in the book in greater detail. But briefly as nearly as scientists can tell right now most the epidemic seems to stem from factors such as increased diagnostic awareness by peds, more available social services for autism patients and a push to give kids an autism diagnosis rather than one of mental retardation or learning disabilities.

This paper in the April 1st 2006 edition of Pediatrics examines the issue more closely.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:06 AM
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I don't plan to buy or read your book but autism deniers are in the same class as the anti-vaxers IMO.
It's not a question of denial. It's two questions: is there really an epidemic of autism and if so what's fueling it?

We get into that in the book in greater detail. But briefly as nearly as scientists can tell right now most the epidemic seems to stem from factors such as increased diagnostic awareness by peds, more available social services for autism patients and a push to give kids an autism diagnosis rather than one of mental retardation or learning disabilities.

This paper in the April 1st 2006 edition of Pediatrics examines the issue more closely. The author points out:

Quote:
The average administrative prevalence of autism among children increased from 0.6 to 3.1 per 1000 from 1994 to 2003. By 2003, only 17 states had a special education prevalence of autism that was within the range of recent epidemiological estimates. During the same period, the prevalence of mental retardation and learning disabilities declined by 2.8 and 8.3 per 1000, respectively. Higher autism prevalence was significantly associated with corresponding declines in the prevalence of mental retardation and learning disabilities.
Bolding mine. It's the sort of finding we think needs far more publicity. Instead we get coverage of Andrew Wakefield's lies and Jenny McCarthy's "google university" rants.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:16 PM
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Thank you, everybody, for the kind words and the support! LavenderBlue and I really appreciate it!

And Wakefield shouldn't be eaten - he should be staked out over an ant hill.

If it were up to me, I'd charge him with murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keweenaw View Post
I don't plan to buy or read your book but autism deniers are in the same class as the anti-vaxers IMO.
We are in no way autism deniers, so I have no idea how you pulled that interpretation out of the clear blue sky. What we talk about is the fact that there is not currently an autism EPIDEMIC. There are demographic and statistical explanations for the so-called epidemic that we discuss in detail in the book. Autism is a real disorder, but not related to vaccines.
  #28  
Old 08-16-2012, 10:48 AM
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If you want an annecdotal point: about 18 years ago I was working for a psychiatrist. We had a new patient that sent him to a medical library to research papers on this 'new' thing. He came back with a punch of xerox copies and new knowledge, and labeled the patient with autism. And over the year or so I continued there, he changed the diagnoses on at least a half dozen of his regular patients from non-specific retardation and such to autism.

Bingo! A proportionately huge rise in the number of autistic patients in his practice, and it had nothing to do with an increase in the disease among children.
  #29  
Old 08-16-2012, 11:17 AM
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I've never even heard of an autism denier. It's all a question of statistics.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:27 PM
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Without even reading the book, based on my opinion of the knowledge of the posters involved on the issue, I feel comfortable saying there should be a government program to air-drop copies of it into the most egregious offenders of non-vaccination in the country.

I am continually astounded at how much reverence Wakefield gets when anti-vaxxers rarely actually refer to any of his 'science' to justify their position.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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I've been looking forward to this! You just made a sale.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:19 PM
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As a parent of a currently 8 year old girl who uses an IPad and ASL to communicate with those around her I can assure you she isn't MR. The rocking back and forth, the flapping of the arms, are unmistakable. And I can say without a doubt, vaccines did not cause her autism. I don't know wtf did, but she regressed before her MMR.

I am very vocal against the anti vaccine crowd as well, and try to fight the fear they spread with the real world fears we will all face if more people start listening to the crazies.

I will withhold judgement on your stand on autism until I read your book. I have had other parents talk to me on a playground about their "autistic" child. Who I observe interacting with the other kids, running over and talking to their mom. All normal like.... and it bugs me... but I also know from everything I have heard around me, from my daughters teachers to therapists to family.... it seems to be growing.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:27 PM
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As a parent of a currently 8 year old girl who uses an IPad and ASL to communicate with those around her I can assure you she isn't MR. The rocking back and forth, the flapping of the arms, are unmistakable.
Right. They're unmistakable now, when we know what the symptoms of autism are. But before that knowledge was widespread, if a doctor didn't know what the hell was wrong with this kid but that they weren't quite right and wouldn't interact, what did they call it? Mentally retarded.

Just like a lot of deaf/hoh kids got labeled MR before they started doing hearing tests as a regular part of pediatric care.

Kolga and LavenderBlue, congratulations and thank you to you both.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:17 AM
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I will withhold judgement on your stand on autism until I read your book. I have had other parents talk to me on a playground about their "autistic" child. Who I observe interacting with the other kids, running over and talking to their mom. All normal like.... and it bugs me... but I also know from everything I have heard around me, from my daughters teachers to therapists to family.... it seems to be growing.
My kid is autistic. Diagnosed etc. Unmistakably. Yet if you see him on playground, you will see him interacting (somewhat) with other kids, running over to me and talking with me (you'd have to stand close to hear the speech problems such as mixing pronouns and formulaic speech).
  #35  
Old 08-22-2012, 12:13 PM
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My kid is autistic. Diagnosed etc. Unmistakably. Yet if you see him on playground, you will see him interacting (somewhat) with other kids, running over to me and talking with me (you'd have to stand close to hear the speech problems such as mixing pronouns and formulaic speech).
Ditto - it's definitely a broad spectrum of symptoms, and RyJae's daughter is more severely impaired than my son (or yours).

Whether it's truly growing, or better / more accurate diagnosis, or whatever, is hard to say; I haven't done the research. I do know that my own family is pretty hard hit (4 out of 6 biological cousins have significant issues, 2 of them autism).

For Kolga and LavenderBlue: In your research, have you stumbled across *any* health issues that seem to be tied to vaccination? By that I mean things that appear to have an autoimmune tie (e.g. the increase in allergies, any other disorders).

We never subscribed to the whole Wakefield thing, but kept an open mind about a possible autoimmune component, mainly because my nephew's symptoms *seemed* to improve somewhat when he was on high-dose steroids for a while. So, my kids have been fully vaccinated, but we *did* take a slower approach than the official plan (e.g. never more than 2 at a time, waited longer than average between 'em, never got a new vaccine within a year or two of its being introduced etc.). In our judgment, this posed minimal additional risk while ultimately offering acceptable protection.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:25 PM
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MR?
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:28 PM
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MR?
Probably short for mentally retarded.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:29 PM
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Mental retardation. Sorry about that, so used to that being called just "MR"
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:30 PM
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Thank you; that makes sense.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:33 PM
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When my late mother taught special education she used the initials EMR to describe some of her students. EMR stood for educable mentally retarded.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:56 PM
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Sweet! Talk about "fighting ignorance". Well done.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 08-16-2012 at 07:56 PM.
  #42  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:38 AM
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Awesome! It's going on my B&N wish list and I hope to be able to buy it soon. Congratulations to you both.
  #43  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:50 AM
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I just got my physical copies. This is one hell of an amazing place. About two years ago I thought I want to write a book about this subject but oh hell that's a huge and daunting task. Yeah I've written articles here and there but never an entire actual book. I can't possibly do it alone.

So on a whim I threw out a request in a pit thread for a co-author on my potential book. Allison immediately showed up and pm'ed me with a barrel of wonderful ideas about how to turn my ideas into a real book. After a lot of hard work and hours and hours and hours of research we crafted a book proposal and then mailed them out to publishing houses. Five months and ten nos later one house said yes.

A year later I'm sitting here reading my own book with tears streaming down my face. Thank you, Dopers. You are wonderful people!
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:44 PM
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Congrats. I am a rather noted Amazon reviewer. If you would like to send me a copy, I’ll review it for you on Amazon. If so, PM me.

I added it to my wishlist, this sometimes gets a book a little help in the rankings.
  #45  
Old 08-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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Congratulations!

I've got it on my birthday wishlist, and if I don't get it by then I will buy it myself! I'll also be recommending it to my local library - they have a very good medical section and this will be a great addition to it!
  #46  
Old 08-17-2012, 06:57 PM
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congratulations!!

I posted it on FB, too, in the spirit of Good for YOU! I love hanging out with smart people...
  #47  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:54 PM
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Very cool! Just downloaded the Kindle preview and added it to my wish list. Will post to FB, too.

I was going to suggest sharing with Phil Plait too.
  #48  
Old 08-17-2012, 10:21 PM
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This is fantastic. I'm so impressed. Thanks or igniting the good fight.
  #49  
Old 08-17-2012, 10:28 PM
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Posted to FB, too.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:41 PM
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Congratulations on your publication! Facebooked it as well. I'm sure it will cost me a couple of Friends, but...fuck 'em, I'm rather sick of their psychotic posts anyhow.
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