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Old 09-17-2019, 08:41 PM
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WTF Lewandowski?!


I'm mainly a lurker. Was actually hoping someone else would post about the hearing today. I was barely cognizant when the Oliver North, Ronald Reagan(Hallowed Be Thy Name), Iran/Contra Thing went on. After watching the ridiculous "testimony" of Corey Lewandowski, I'm less convinced than ever that anyone on the right is concerned with the rule of law at all. I thought I understood partisan politics, but admit I am totally unprepared for a society that will take "I am refusing to answer because the president said don't answer" as proof of anything other than the obfuscation or outright obstruction of the task that we elect our officials to perform. I understand that he's not an employee of the president and hasn't been since the president has been the president. hat I don't understand is how he is able to refuse to answer questions regarding the conversations he shared with the president while not acting in an official capacity. Is anyone who ever talked to the president immune from testimony? How can we root out corruption if no one who has ever talked to the president can be compelled to testify?
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:42 PM
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[Jedi gesture] This is not the corruption you're looking for.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:45 PM
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He's saying "Womp, womp" to the nation.

Maybe, someday, we can return the favor.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:24 PM
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I'm less convinced than ever that anyone on the right is concerned with the rule of law at all
I haven't had the chance to watch the hearings, but I heard a little about it on the radio.

Not everybody on the American political right thinks Mr. Lewandowski is such a great guy. Some of us think executive privilege must be made on specific, articulate grounds and not implicated "merely on the ground of a generalized interest in confidentiality" (United States v. Nixon, 1974). That doesn't necessarily mean the questions must be answered in public, however.

~Max
United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974)
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:33 PM
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That doesn't necessarily mean the questions must be answered in public, however.
Where else, then?!
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:36 PM
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Where else, then?!
A closed-door hearing. If the answers are used to indict the president, then yes, they are going to be made public. But if it turns out they aren't needed, I see no issue keeping potentially personal and embarrassing but irrelevant information out of the press.

~Max
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:34 AM
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... I thought I understood partisan politics, but admit I am totally unprepared for a society that will take "I am refusing to answer because the president said don't answer" as proof of anything other than the obfuscation or outright obstruction of the task that we elect our officials to perform. ...
Prepare for another year of that. The Democrats' unfortunate strategy is to have hearings that follow hearings. The Trump/DOJ/Satan strategy is going to be: if you bother to even show up, dummy up and smile.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:44 AM
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Those Reps Collins and Jordan were calling out what it was. Wish these people will get back to their jobs.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:57 AM
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I'm mainly a lurker. Was actually hoping someone else would post about the hearing today. I was barely cognizant when the Oliver North, Ronald Reagan(Hallowed Be Thy Name), Iran/Contra Thing went on. After watching the ridiculous "testimony" of Corey Lewandowski, I'm less convinced than ever that anyone on the right is concerned with the rule of law at all. I thought I understood partisan politics, but admit I am totally unprepared for a society that will take "I am refusing to answer because the president said don't answer" as proof of anything other than the obfuscation or outright obstruction of the task that we elect our officials to perform. I understand that he's not an employee of the president and hasn't been since the president has been the president. hat I don't understand is how he is able to refuse to answer questions regarding the conversations he shared with the president while not acting in an official capacity. Is anyone who ever talked to the president immune from testimony? How can we root out corruption if no one who has ever talked to the president can be compelled to testify?
Dude, you didn't even mention the worst of it:

Corey Lewandowski opened up his Senate (R-NH) campaign yesterday.

http://standwithcorey.com/

Of course the GOP is going to stand with Corey. Of course they are going to stand with a man who flagrantly violates the Constitution and what it stood (not "stands") for. Of course they don't care that he's breaking the law.

Here's the thing: the conservatives no longer have time left to play by the rules and they know it.

Nixon won with 61% of the vote in 1972
Reagan '84 won with 58%
Bush 88 won 53%
Bush 2000 47%
Bush 2004 50%
Trump 2016 46%

They've only won in 2000 and 2016 because of structural problems in the system, but even that is no longer sufficient as 2016 required the open assistance of outside agents for Donald Trump to squeak out his victory.

So, that's why he's acting this way: Even though the Reagan Revolution won, the ideas behind it are increasingly unpopular, the people promoting them represent a shrinking slice of the American electorate, and the only way conservatives can remain in power is by manipulating... then flagrantly violating... the rules and Constitution.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-18-2019 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:07 AM
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The Democrats just epically lost yesterday's hearing. They really do not seem to get what's going on.

The fact Lewandowski sounded like a corrupt asshole and the Democrats sounded legalistic and sober is in no way a win. Trumpists don't care about the law; they just care about hurting people and fighting. To them, Lewandowski sounded like a hero, and the Democrats looked powerless and weak. The failure to have Lewandowski arrested on the spot is inexplicably stupid.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Dahlia Lithwick thinks the Lewandowski hearing was a plus for the Democrats --

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-disaster.html

Quote:
Corey Lewandowski’s Self-Immolation

The former Trump campaign manager’s disastrous performance shows that impeachment hearings work.

...

At the end, though, came a few key moments when Lewandowski was made to all but openly confess his own lies. This critical portion of the hearing was a disaster for Lewandowski and showed why Democrats should be champing at the bit to hold more hearings like this one, rather than fulminating and hand-wringing over whether they are even taking part in an impeachment inquiry. Lewandowski’s confession should, at minimum, preclude him from ever being booked on a television news program again and in a sane world would instantly doom his nascent Senate run.

...

Lewandowski’s response was stunning: “I have no obligation to be honest to the media. Because they’re just as dishonest as anybody else.” Berke sought to clarify: “So you’re admitting, sir, you were not being truthful?” Lewandowski replied, now in full Dada: “My interview with Ari Melber … can be interpreted any way you like.”

...

This is next-level gaslighting. The same witness who announced to the world that he owes a duty of truth under oath, but that he may lie to the press with impunity, is launching a run for high office. The person who spat the words “fake news” at his hearing, in response to questions he didn’t like, boasted about actually creating and disseminating fake news when caught in a lie. There is a special grade of nihilism required to dismiss all unflattering media stories as fake, but the nihilism of dismissing one’s own lies to the press as justified is truly astounding.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:46 PM
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Dahlia Lithwick thinks the Lewandowski hearing was a plus for the Democrats --

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-disaster.html

....

Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post saw something similar (alas, it is paywalled). The real fireworks started after the politicians were done, and the questioning was turned over to the Democrats' counsel, Barry Berke. From the column:

"Here’s what he accomplished:

1. Berke forced Lewandowski to acknowledge that when he said on national television multiple times he would “voluntarily” appear before special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, that was false. Berke demonstrated Lewandowski also lied when he said on TV he had not been asked to testify. Lewandowski asserted he had no obligation to tell the media (and the public) the truth.

2. Berke made plain that Lewandowski took the Fifth and refused to testify for the special counsel unless granted immunity. He also showed Lewandowski clips of him publicly stating that when you take the Fifth, you’ve done something wrong.

3. Berke established that before asking Lewandowski to take a message to then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the White House just so happened to dangle a White House job before him.

4. Berke established that Lewandowski was absolutely loyal to Trump yet never delivered the message.

5. Berke also established that Lewandowski wanted to have a private meeting with Sessions so there would be no record.

In short, Berke made perfectly clear that Lewandowski’s actions (refusing to deliver Trump’s instructions, demanding immunity, lying on TV, creating no record) demonstrated he knew he was being asked to do something wrong or illegal."

I found that part of the testimony to be worth watching. Berke knocked a lot of the smug off of Lewandowski.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:41 PM
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Here's the Berke segment for those who enjoy a good examination.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:57 PM
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Thank you. That testimony was not included with the footage I watched from cbs on youtube. I actually feel much better after seeing that. Corey is still a piece of shit, but at least they were able to get him to admit that he does not give a fuck if he tells America the truth. I still believe,as others have stated here, that he should've awakened in a jail cell this morning. INAL, but i can't see how executive privilege extends to someone not even employed by the administration.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:04 PM
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He also managed to plug his book a few times as well!
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:23 PM
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Thank you. That testimony was not included with the footage I watched from cbs on youtube. I actually feel much better after seeing that. Corey is still a piece of shit, but at least they were able to get him to admit that he does not give a fuck if he tells America the truth. I still believe,as others have stated here, that he should've awakened in a jail cell this morning. INAL, but i can't see how executive privilege extends to someone not even employed by the administration.
IANAL either, but the privilege the Trump "administration" is asserting is a magical, non-existence privilege. There is no such thing as "constitutional privilege." What Trump is engaging in is an abuse of power. Executive privilege -- which is a thing -- does not extend to a time when the Executive asserting it wasn't the Executive. Furthermore, Executive privilege it doesn't protect an Executive who is using the privilege for a corrupt purpose.

There is a lawsuit wending its way through the courts with a favorable ruling expected before Thanksgiving. Dems are anxiously awaiting the ruling to learn if Trump will disregard the rule of law not only with respect to Congress, but the rulings of the SCOTUS as well.

I think he will. We're in super scary times.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:55 AM
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Here's the Berke segment for those who enjoy a good examination.
Great stuff. I hadn't heard about this nor seen it.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 09-19-2019 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:03 AM
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There is a lawsuit...
Please, which lawsuit is this?
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:06 AM
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In short, Berke made perfectly clear that Lewandowski’s actions (refusing to deliver Trump’s instructions, demanding immunity, lying on TV, creating no record) demonstrated he knew he was being asked to do something wrong or illegal."

I found that part of the testimony to be worth watching. Berke knocked a lot of the smug off of Lewandowski.
I've read/heard this take a few different places.

My problem, though, is simple - why the hell is Jerry Nadler letting these people get away with it?

It was *obvious* during his testimony he was perjuring himself, they got him to all but say "I have perjured myself". They should have arrested his ass as he was walking out the door.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:11 AM
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It was *obvious* during his testimony he was perjuring himself...
Can you provide excerpts to support your conclusion? My take away was that he lied when not under oath.

~Max
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:26 AM
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Can you provide excerpts to support your conclusion? My take away was that he lied when not under oath.

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[sarcasm]That makes it OK then.[/sarcasm]
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:36 AM
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[sarcasm]That makes it OK then.[/sarcasm]
Lying to the media is not OK, but it's not perjury, and it's not grounds to arrest Mr. Lewandowski as Celidin suggested. Perhaps there was some other part of the hearing that I missed where Mr. Lewandowski perjured himself.

~Max

Last edited by Max S.; 09-19-2019 at 10:37 AM. Reason: hearing, not interview
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:52 AM
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Please, which lawsuit is this?
Committee on the Judiciary, US House of Representatives, v. Donald F. McGahn II. A link to a Lawfare discussion about its importance in this fight is here. Nadler filed a motion to expedite the hearing of the case in late August.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:48 PM
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This whole damn thing should have started and ended with Berke. Instead Fox news can conveniently leave out his questioning in favor of footage showing Democrats looking like idiots.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:43 PM
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Committee on the Judiciary, US House of Representatives, v. Donald F. McGahn II. A link to a Lawfare discussion about its importance in this fight is here. Nadler filed a motion to expedite the hearing of the case in late August.
Thanks so much.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:01 PM
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Here's the Berke segment for those who enjoy a good examination.
Just wanna add, if you have not been a lawyer conducting a deposition, or questioning a hostile witness, it might be hard to imagine how incredibly frustrating it is (at least for me) to have to work so hard against a clearly lying scumbag who is doing whatever they can to waste your time and refuse answering even the most straightforward question.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:31 PM
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Just wanna add, if you have not been a lawyer conducting a deposition, or questioning a hostile witness, it might be hard to imagine how incredibly frustrating it is (at least for me) to have to work so hard against a clearly lying scumbag who is doing whatever they can to waste your time and refuse answering even the most straightforward question.
Quite the converse, I am not a lawyer and have not ever interviewed a hostile witness, yet I find it hard to imagine myself in Mr. Berke's place without jumping down, grabbing Mr. Lewandowski by the collar, and yelling "give me a straight answer, dammit!"

~Max

Last edited by Max S.; 09-19-2019 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Berke not Burke
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