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Old 10-09-2019, 09:26 PM
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Your experiences with mobile payments (Apple Pay, Google Pay, etc.)


I've noticed a number of places in my city switching to cards only, no cash or checks allowed. Although they primarily take debit/credit cards, they also mention they take stuff like Google Pay and Apple Pay. It got me thinking:
--Do you use these mobile payment systems, and which ones? Do you use them instead of credit/debit or alternate with them?
--What are their benefits and drawbacks?
--How hard is it to find merchants to take them? What kind of businesses in general don't take them?
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:31 PM
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I use Apple Pay. Where it is accepted it is generally faster for me to get my phone out, double click the side button (in such a way that it recognizes my face), and hold it near the reader than it is to get my credit card out of my wallet. That sounds like a lot of things but it really is one fluid motion for me, and the chipped card typically takes an irritatingly long time to process.

It's a little spotty still regarding where it is accepted, at least in the US. In Canada and Australia it seemed accepted everywhere.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:36 PM
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I use Apple pay. It's accepted in around 50% of the business I go to.
As noted above, it's much faster than chip-and-signature.
Some implementations are really brain-damaged, though - they treat it like a credit card, printing a receipt that must be signed. Clearly the NFC driver was just glued onto their existing software.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:07 PM
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I use Apple Pay as well as my contactless Capital One card for almost all my small transactions. I prefer using the contactless Capital One cars because it’s got a cash back benefit, but if it’s just something small, I’ll use the Apple Pay since my phone is always in my hand.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:25 PM
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It's been about a year or so, but I tried to use Android pay. It worked 50% of the time. So I always had cash as a backup because who wants to be the fucking twat holding up the line fucking around with some shitty phone payment? Turns out just using cash is a fuckload easier. And after three help inquiries to Google trying to figure out what the fuck the issue was, Google just started to ignore me. Fuck them. Use cash.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dag Otto View Post
It's been about a year or so, but I tried to use Android pay. It worked 50% of the time. So I always had cash as a backup because who wants to be the fucking twat holding up the line fucking around with some shitty phone payment? Turns out just using cash is a fuckload easier. And after three help inquiries to Google trying to figure out what the fuck the issue was, Google just started to ignore me. Fuck them. Use cash.
Cash sucks. It pretty much is only good for very busy bars and street festivals. Are you sure you were using the phone pay correctly? And you can always get a contactless card as well as a back up.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:18 PM
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I use Apple Pay as well as my contactless Capital One card for almost all my small transactions. I prefer using the contactless Capital One cars because itís got a cash back benefit, but if itís just something small, Iíll use the Apple Pay since my phone is always in my hand.
I have my Amazon Visa card as my payment method with Apple Pay, so I get cash back (or at least Amazon points) whenever I use Apple Pay.
  #8  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:24 PM
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Here's the thing - it either works or it doesn't. Half the time it didn't. I would have my phone, unlocked (PIN entered) and ready to go, and when I tapped the phone to the card reader it returned an error. I would then proceed to pay in cash because again, who wants to be the fuckhead holding up the line. After I completed the transaction, my phone would say it's ready, but what the fuck, I have paid in cash by then. It needs to work the first time, and it just didn't half of the time. The way it was supposed to work is: 1)unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) done. The way it actually worked was: 1) unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) wait a few seconds, 4) enter PIN to unlock phone again, 5) tap to pay. Fuck it, if I hit step three cash came out and fuck Android pay. Shit needs to work the first time. Android pay didn't. Cash doesn't have that problem. I love cash.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:43 PM
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I'm not really familiar with Android pay. But Apple pay is pretty seamless. It certainly isn't universally accepted, which is annoying. But you can see that before you even try to use it. If it has the appropriate wireless logo I've never had any issues with it working first time, every time. That's more than I can say for the chipped card. I'll use cash from time to time too but it has a slight premium since I don't bother carrying coins and end up putting them in the tip jar.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:48 PM
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And since I am on a roll, I'll add that the only thing NFC on a phone was actually useful for was Bluetooth pairing, which was a clusterfuck in itself. In theory, Bluetooth pairing was supposed to be simple, in reality it is shit. An entirely different system (NFC) finally made Bluetooth pairing easy, but in my experience that was the extent of the usefulness of NFC. It's like crappy patches to fix crappy systems. Crap all the way down.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:44 AM
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Here's the thing - it either works or it doesn't. Half the time it didn't. I would have my phone, unlocked (PIN entered) and ready to go, and when I tapped the phone to the card reader it returned an error. I would then proceed to pay in cash because again, who wants to be the fuckhead holding up the line. After I completed the transaction, my phone would say it's ready, but what the fuck, I have paid in cash by then. It needs to work the first time, and it just didn't half of the time. The way it was supposed to work is: 1)unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) done. The way it actually worked was: 1) unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) wait a few seconds, 4) enter PIN to unlock phone again, 5) tap to pay. Fuck it, if I hit step three cash came out and fuck Android pay. Shit needs to work the first time. Android pay didn't. Cash doesn't have that problem. I love cash.
Did you ever think it was a user issue?

I almost never use cash anymore. In the last 6 months or so Iíve used Apple Pay linked to my credit cards in Estonia, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Poland, the US, the UK, and here in Canada. It occasionally need a second tap, but always faster than fumbling in my wallet for bills and waiting for change.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:42 AM
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I use Apple Pay, and it is accepted everywhere, because everywhere has a contactless credit machine.

This is my experience in the UK, and recently in Italy.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:14 AM
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Apple Pay saved my bacon one day when I did an entire weeks grocery shopping having forgotten my wallet. For that reason alone, I'd set up my phone with one of these options.

I don't really use it routinely, but I do have a debit card with the Tap feature, and it is definitely better than swipe or chip. However, implementation is still spotty, at best 50% of stores accept it
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:59 AM
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I love it when it works, but I try to have a backup. I've encountered a merchant who refused to allow me to use it ("The last time someone did that, it crashed the machine and we couldn't take payments for three days until the bank came and fixed it") and maybe 5% of the time, I've had it inexplicably not read.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:04 AM
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Apple Pay is the best payment method I have access to. IMHO, Apple Pay > chip card > online electronic payments > swipe card > bartering with chickens etc > cash.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:44 AM
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Apple Pay is the best payment method I have access to. IMHO, Apple Pay > chip card > online electronic payments > swipe card > bartering with chickens etc > cash.
Why do you hate cash so much? I'm more likely to have cash in my pocket than anything else as it's smaller & lighter than anything else. I don't run with a phone & some of my running shorts only have a key pocket; bills will fit in there but a card won't.


I'll also add that the watches suck unless you use them multiple times in a day/without talking the watch off because the first time you use it you need to enter your PIN. The authentication is that you need to enter your PIN at least every 24 hrs/after taking it off (which it knows by HR being lost from the sensor on the back of the watch).
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:05 PM
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Here's the thing - it either works or it doesn't. Half the time it didn't. I would have my phone, unlocked (PIN entered) and ready to go, and when I tapped the phone to the card reader it returned an error. I would then proceed to pay in cash because again, who wants to be the fuckhead holding up the line. After I completed the transaction, my phone would say it's ready, but what the fuck, I have paid in cash by then. It needs to work the first time, and it just didn't half of the time. The way it was supposed to work is: 1)unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) done. The way it actually worked was: 1) unlock phone, 2) tap to pay, 3) wait a few seconds, 4) enter PIN to unlock phone again, 5) tap to pay. Fuck it, if I hit step three cash came out and fuck Android pay. Shit needs to work the first time. Android pay didn't. Cash doesn't have that problem. I love cash.
This was similar to my experience with Apple Pay on my iPhone. I don't know if it is user error or what but sometimes at the point-of-sale I can get the phone to go into Apple Pay mode and sometimes I cannot. And that last part, sometimes I cannot, is exactly what has hurt adoption of most alternative payment systems like this. Cash or swipe/dip a card works, every time*. A service like Apple Pay must be easier to use than a swipe/dip and it must be dependable - every time. I also do not want to be the fuckhead holding up the line so I reach for my card every time and swipe/dip instead of taking the risk that for this transaction Apple Pay might or might not work for me.

*Yes, I know a EMV chip or mag stripe can get damaged and the swipe/dip may fail. But frankly, that happens to me once every few years and that's when I know it is time to ask my bank to send me a replacement card. It is less than 50% that my iPhone behaves properly and let's me get to the Apple Pay screen where I can use the phone to pay.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:17 PM
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I have Apple Pay, it seems to work ok but my contactless debit cards live in my phone case anyway so it is quicker and easier to get one out and waft it over the reader than it is to hold my finger just so on the iphone button to unlock it then waft it over the reader. There is also the problem that using the phone means the phone and both physical contactless cards are close to the reader. If and when Garmin make Apple Pay available on their watches I would probably use it all the time.

As for cash, I haven't used it regularly for decades. We have some to pay the house cleaner and we have some in a jar for the mother-in-law to use to buy groceries (she lives with us, we pay for the groceries, having cash available means she can get milk and bread etc without using her own money).
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:28 PM
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I use Google Pay frequently, and have found it faster than a chip card. I have to remember one location that won't give cash back on Google pay, but that is the only hiccup.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:39 PM
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Did you ever think it was a user issue?
Sure, the first time I thought I did something wrong, but the process is pretty simple. 1 - unlock phone; I made sure the phone was unlocked right before the transaction. 2 - tap to pay; I know where the NFC sensor is on my phone, and I can see on the payment terminal where to place the NFC sensor, and I know that the distance has to be quite close. I know the terminal at least sensed the phone as it beeped. But the phone had a message that said the transaction failed. At this point, I resorted to the backup payment method (cash, which for some odd reason always works). Then leaving the store I looked at my phone and saw a screen message prompting me to enter my PIN for Android pay, which was specifically not supposed to be needed when the phone was already unlocked. I couldn't tell you how long the time lag was between the transaction failed message and the prompt for the PIN because I was busy paying with a reliable payment method. Maybe 10 to 30 seconds? It wasn't instant. So yeah maybe I made an error in expecting it to work as advertised and not waiting to enter a PIN that I was not expecting to need to enter. But on the times that it did work as advertised, I didn't need to enter a PIN so there were two distinct experiences here, one were it worked as advertised and the other where it didn't. 50/50 odds on what it was going to do - work or not work. Google help replied to my first two emails seeking help, but didn't fix the issue. The last straw was when they didn't even respond to my third email.

User issue? I don't know, you tell me why it worked half the time and didn't the other half when I was doing the same thing every time. And by the way, all these were at the same retail sales location (Walgreens), so that's one less variable in the process.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:11 PM
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I use Google Pay frequently, and have found it faster than a chip card. I have to remember one location that won't give cash back on Google pay, but that is the only hiccup.
Are contactless cards not very common over there?
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:10 PM
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I recently started using Google Pay from time to time.

Because I'm not used to it, it does take more time than just using a credit card (sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it takes multiple attempts or holding the thing in a specific way) - so I don't use it when there's a line behind me or I'm in a hurry.

The benefits are that it's kind of cool and futuristic feeling. And the receipt is unloseable.

The drawbacks are that Google knows even more about me than it already does. Also, because my ID isn't on my phone, I have to carry around a wallet anyway, so it doesn't save anything there. And again - it takes longer than using a credit card.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:32 PM
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I'll also add that the watches suck unless you use them multiple times in a day/without talking the watch off because the first time you use it you need to enter your PIN. The authentication is that you need to enter your PIN at least every 24 hrs/after taking it off (which it knows by HR being lost from the sensor on the back of the watch).
I don’t run across that issue. I mean, yeah, I tend to fuck with my watch several times a day (changing playlists, starting exercise, looking at texts), but I have my watch set to unlock when my phone unlocks so in practice, I almost never enter my pin.

I use Apple Pay whenever possible as waving my watch over the payment device is about the easiest thing ever.

Last edited by Pork Rind; 10-10-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:34 PM
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Are contactless cards not very common over there?
In the US? No. Very uncommon in my experience. I've never had a debit or credit card issued with that functionality.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:37 PM
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Are contactless cards not very common over there?
I was in the States at the beginning of the year, and contactless terminals are pretty rare - it seemed that only the fast food places would dependably have them.
In Australia, they're everywhere. I'll use my phone, fitbit, whatever at just about every business I patronize. I suppose there may be a few places, farmers' markets and the like, that don't, but they have (probably) always been cash only anyway.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:17 PM
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This was similar to my experience with Apple Pay on my iPhone. I don't know if it is user error or what but sometimes at the point-of-sale I can get the phone to go into Apple Pay mode and sometimes I cannot. And that last part, sometimes I cannot, is exactly what has hurt adoption of most alternative payment systems like this. Cash or swipe/dip a card works, every time*. A service like Apple Pay must be easier to use than a swipe/dip and it must be dependable - every time. I also do not want to be the fuckhead holding up the line so I reach for my card every time and swipe/dip instead of taking the risk that for this transaction Apple Pay might or might not work for me.

*Yes, I know a EMV chip or mag stripe can get damaged and the swipe/dip may fail. But frankly, that happens to me once every few years and that's when I know it is time to ask my bank to send me a replacement card. It is less than 50% that my iPhone behaves properly and let's me get to the Apple Pay screen where I can use the phone to pay.
You just double click the Home button for TouchID phones, or double click the side button on the FaceID phones. It really can't be much simpler.

Last edited by Eyebrows 0f Doom; 10-10-2019 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:47 PM
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Are contactless cards not very common over there?
In the USA, nope. Iím pretty lucky that Iím in a pretty advantaged part of the USA, but I think tipping culture is preventing their wide spread adoption. You can use contactless in a lot of stores and for fast food, but any place that might want a tip is still take the card away and swipe like itís 1992. Even when we got chip cards around 2016, theyíre chip and sign, not chip and pin.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:08 AM
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For me in Southern Ontario, it's tap with my contactless EMV chip card almost every time. I do not have an Apple Watch or an iPhone that can use one. (My friends were after me to get an Apple Watch when my tax refund came in, but I priced a Watch and the new iPhone I would have had to get to use it, and it came to near 2000 dollars, which is well into "new computer" territory.)

I have an Android phone, the Samsung Galaxy A5, a decent phone that came with my account. It has NFC and I can use the wallet app from my bank to make payments, but that involves so many extra steps, that I've only used it once. With my cards, it's "pull card out, tap on reader, see payment approved before I can get the card back in my wallet".

PS: for tips, as on a restaurant, you approve the amount, select the amount of tip, hit okay, then when the terminal displays the contactless symbol, tap. This is either at the counter or on the machine they bring to the table.
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Last edited by Sunspace; 10-11-2019 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:04 AM
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I have an Apple MasterCard, and have it set up to allow ApplePay, but I haven't yet been somewhere that accepts it.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:15 AM
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I've had android pay set up on my phone for NFC use for a couple of years and I pretty much use it exclusively and hardly ever carry cash. I've used it all around Europe and on the tube etc.

I don't recall it ever not working or having any rogue or missed payments. Much prefer it.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:33 AM
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You just double click the Home button for TouchID phones, or double click the side button on the FaceID phones. It really can't be much simpler.
Yes, I know. Trust me, I've watched others do it effortlessly and been very annoyed at them. Haha!

I have owned iPhones exclusively since the very first one. Half the time, the double click on the Home button brings up the Apple Pay screen and messaging to hold it close to the reader. The other half of the time, not so much. And the double click only seems to work if the iPhone is locked. If I'm standing in line, I'm probably gazing at an app on my phone while I wait and my phone isn't locked. Double-click doesn't work from there, you have to lock the phone then double click. Or when unlocked, open Wallet, select debit card, wait an indeterminate amount of seconds before it changes from showing last transactions to going into Apple Pay mode.

Like I said, it has to be simpler than swipe/dip a card and as reliable. It is not -for me- and as a result, I've stopped trying to use it.

I am getting my first Apple Watch today and I am curious to see if it is any easier to use Apple Pay that way. :-D
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:33 AM
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Are contactless cards not very common over there?
I have one credit card like that, but I use my ATM card for most daily purchases, and it's a chip & pin card.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:57 AM
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I use Google Pay when I can. However, most of the self-serve kiosks I've tried will prompt for a human store attendant to come complete the transaction which ends up killing the convenience factor. Why they do this for a phone, and not for a card, I don't understand.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:26 PM
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I use Apple Pay when available. It works for me the vast majority of times when the vendor's hardware claims to accept it. I can only think of one time it didn't work, so probably a 99+% success rate.

It's easier and faster to get my phone out of my pocket than take my wallet out and then my credit card and then wait, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanJoe
Half the time, the double click on the Home button brings up the Apple Pay screen and messaging to hold it close to the reader. The other half of the time, not so much. And the double click only seems to work if the iPhone is locked.
I do this accidentally sometimes, but I've never needed to do it when actually paying for something. The pay screen always just comes up when I hold it near the reader.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:49 PM
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I use Google Pay occasionally, but at all the places where Google Pay works, I can also just use contactless payment directly with my credit card, so I tend to do that. The problem is that, at least around me, almost every chip & sign machine has the logo to take contactless payment, but they are frequently not setup for it. So I'll try my card on the contactless pad, and then when it doesn't work I can shove it into the chip slot. If I was using my phone, I'd have to swap payment methods, etc.

Samsung pay was interesting, because my old phone, an S8, had some sort of magnetic field generator that was able to do contactless payments to a credit card swipe machine. That meant it worked nearly anywhere that took credit cards. If NFC didn't work, then it would try the magnetic thing. The problem was that it would often take two or three tries for the payment to go through. Then Samsung started flooding their pay app with ads, and cut the value of their reward points by 100, so once the novelty factor wore off, I stopped using it.
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Old 10-11-2019, 05:33 PM
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Yes, I know. Trust me, I've watched others do it effortlessly and been very annoyed at them. Haha!

I have owned iPhones exclusively since the very first one. Half the time, the double click on the Home button brings up the Apple Pay screen and messaging to hold it close to the reader. The other half of the time, not so much. And the double click only seems to work if the iPhone is locked. If I'm standing in line, I'm probably gazing at an app on my phone while I wait and my phone isn't locked. Double-click doesn't work from there, you have to lock the phone then double click. Or when unlocked, open Wallet, select debit card, wait an indeterminate amount of seconds before it changes from showing last transactions to going into Apple Pay mode.

Like I said, it has to be simpler than swipe/dip a card and as reliable. It is not -for me- and as a result, I've stopped trying to use it.

I am getting my first Apple Watch today and I am curious to see if it is any easier to use Apple Pay that way. :-D
Interesting. I started using Apple Pay with the 6S (TouchID based). I never had to click to bring up the payment screen. As soon as I moved the phone close to the point-of-sale terminal, it would pop up automagically and just touching the home button to authenticate was sufficient; no clicking necessary. Did they change the UI on the TouchID phones in a later iOS release? Now I have a 10 (FaceID based), but I never use it for payment--I use the Apple Watch, which is straightforward (double-click and touch to the POS). Also, the watch works even if the phone isn't present.

I am (mostly) blind, and using contactless payment is a great accessibility feature. I don't have to figure out where to insert the card, just get the watch near enough to the reader. I do get annoyed when I have to *also* push buttons on the screen or add a tip or sign, but I can usually get the clerk to walk me through that. When we were in the UK in June, virtually every place, even small vendors in market halls, took contactless without a glitch. Availability in Italy wasn't quite as good, but we could at least buy train tickets at self-service kiosks without risking a credit card skimmer.

Adoption by merchants seems to be slowly getting better in the US, especially in the big cities. The newer the business, the more likely they take contactless, since the capability seems to be standard in new POS systems.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:59 PM
FinsToTheLeft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickG View Post

I am (mostly) blind, and using contactless payment is a great accessibility feature. I don't have to figure out where to insert the card, just get the watch near enough to the reader.
Iím the opposite - Iíve got neurological issues that make double clicking with my right forefinger on my Apple Watch a frustrating thing, so I prefer to use my phone.
  #38  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:02 AM
zbuzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickG View Post
Interesting. I started using Apple Pay with the 6S (TouchID based). I never had to click to bring up the payment screen. As soon as I moved the phone close to the point-of-sale terminal, it would pop up automagically and just touching the home button to authenticate was sufficient; no clicking necessary. Did they change the UI on the TouchID phones in a later iOS release? Now I have a 10 (FaceID based), but I never use it for payment--I use the Apple Watch, which is straightforward (double-click and touch to the POS). Also, the watch works even if the phone isn't present.
iPhones with Face ID do the double click thing since there is no Touch ID. So you'd be double clicking your X if you didn't use the Watch.
  #39  
Old 10-12-2019, 09:58 AM
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ftg is online now
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Just don't let your phone battery die or you'll wind up a criminal.

(This is a problem with people and tech. They all too often that stuff works all the time.)

Last edited by ftg; 10-12-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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