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Old 10-11-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by XT View Post
One of the arguments I see often on this board is that many Republican voters, especially blue collar types, are 'voting against their interests'. It's a theme the runs though many discussions.
...its not a position that I hold. Its not a theme that runs through any discussion that I have had here. Is that a position that you hold?

Do you believe that black voters are 'voting against their interests' when they don't vote for Trump?

So, it's very possible that what Shodan said is true (i.e. standards of living have improved for minorities, and unemployment has gone down to historic low points)
The poverty metric wasn't a measure of "standard of living". Its a measure of whether or not a "family's total income is less than the family's threshold". The distinction is important. You can both "have a job" and "technically not be below the poverty line" and your life could still be completely and utterly shite.

and either the people in question don't couple that with the Republicans (i.e. they don't feel that it was because of Trump and the Republicans that it happened...which, frankly, if it is even true I'd go with)
If their lives are shite right now then they would associate that with Trump & Co.

or there are other issues that they care about more and cause them to vote for Democrats over Republicans, despite this.
If you accept that black people have agency and that they wouldn't "vote against their own interests" then this would be the obvious answer.
Old 10-12-2019, 07:17 AM
survinga is offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
White/Christian Identity is full of delusional conspiracist paranoia. The Fourteen Words they have for slogan goes: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"*. Conspiracy theories like The Great Replacement** advances that whites are being replaced by non-whites, much like one troop of chimps displaces another troop of chimps. They seem to be terrified that society will disintegrate into a zombie apocalypse with non-whites as the zombies that break into their homes to tear them apart.
They seem to earnestly conceive of themselves like this:

If I had a Masada mentality like that, saw the demographic trends and especially after an interracial president, I'd be looking to clash sooner rather than later because time wouldn't be on my side. Much like the election of Lincoln made clear which way the US was heading concerning slavery, the election of Obama makes clear which way the US is heading in terms of racial relations.

So, why aren't we seeing more than a few isolated kooks? Shouldn't we be starting to see some '70s-style organized assassination and bombing campaigns from small groups? Hearing them speak, they seem pretty confident that if push came to shove, the military would largely side with them and that their macho fighting spirit would win over effete liberals. But, where is the bite after all that bark? Where's the concerted effort to fling matches into the gasoline and get this race war started already?

Why aren't we seeing some more violence from black people? If I were a black man in unfortunate circumstances, I'd sometimes start to wonder if Farrakahn's right and white people really might be devils. Haven't some black people thought: "Fuck it, we'll show them they can't treat us like this and get away with it"?

Political violence, either aimed at enemies or in false flag operations, could be used to give people like Trump or Johnson an excuse to abuse their powers. If they want to watch the world burn, the world doesn't seem that difficult to ignite.

It's not exactly isolated kooks though. There are online communities that influence these guys, and it's gone international (such as the Christchurch killer in NZ). They put manifestos online that echo what they read from the Norway killer and Dylan Roof. I think the internet has de-isolated some of these people, and they aid and comfort from boards like 8chan and 4chan.

In terms of just the US, it seems like a surge recently: There was Charlottesville. There was the left-wing Shooter at the Republican baseball practice. There was the racist in El Paso, and some others similar to him. There was the guy in Florida who tried to send bombs to Democrats that he hated. There was the Coast Guard guy in Maryland who was preparing to do the same thing.

Then, we have Antifa vs The Proud Boys. I don't think anyone is getting killed in these skirmishes, but lots of intimidation and fists being thrown.

Maybe it's reported on more than the old days. But it seems like there has been a surge in political violence in the US since Trump joined the political scene.
Old 10-12-2019, 07:30 AM
survinga is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Between the asshole that shot up the Congressional baseball practice, the nut that killed all those cops in Texas, and the loon that tried to firebomb an ICE facility in the pacific northwest, everyone ought to understand that the Left has its share of violent pieces of shit.
The left has their share of violent pieces of shit. I agree. But it seems like the right (lately) has more of them. And when a right-winger goes crazy, seems more likely to result in death.
Old 10-12-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by survinga View Post
The left has their share of violent pieces of shit. I agree. But it seems like the right (lately) has more of them. And when a right-winger goes crazy, seems more likely to result in death.
Violence occurs when there is a grievance and when the perpetrators of violence believe that there's no political means of resolving it.

Right wing violence is usually fueled by racism and the belief that the country is becoming less defined by the traditional WASP standards. Even when the economy is statistically stable, the perceived loss of power and status among white males relative to everyone else leads to violent outcomes.

You would see more left wing violence if plutocracy leads to outcomes so disparate that they see a future of endless corruption and inequality.
Old 10-12-2019, 01:43 PM
Brayne Ded is offline
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Maybe because people get it off their chest posting here in the Straight Dope? Just kidding.

It is not just a question of violent political protest, but of protest in general. And there is surprisingly little of it, especially when compared to the 1960s. What's up, it's now a land of wimps? I dunno. Especially because I don't live there.

But one prerequisite for political unrest is starvation, or something close to it. The middle class being sucked dry is not quite in the same league, losing a house is not quite the same as starving on the streets. The welfare system prevents impoverishment from becoming unbearable, but only just. Things may yet change.

And there was no Internet in the Sixties, no mobile phones. So how did people spread their ideas and arrange to meet up for demos? And why is there so little actual protest these days? It's all virtual.
Old 10-12-2019, 04:14 PM
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It may have been mentioned before, but it bears mentioning that an ever-increasing amount of us (Americans) are just afraid. Afraid to get involved, afraid to lose their job, afraid to stand up and say something or do something (instead feeling like you're always doing the right thing by being a spectator calling 911),afraid to be inconvenienced (and along with this, also to be seen as FAT out in public, take your shirt off, etc, afraid to answer the door, to go outside, afraid, afraid, afraid.

This is not me. But it feels like I know and am friends with more and more of these hyper internet-connected, fat, amazing people that are shut-ins today than...well, ever.

That's just one thing. Ultimately, we're fucking lazy and spoiled by conveniences, don't want to be inconvenienced, assume someone else will do something and then we'll all be bystanders at our nation's pyre. That IS me.
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