Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:09 PM
kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 32,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
I think half of the responses in this thread are really over-analyzing a molehill into a mountain. Do people really think the handshake will become an issue like that? It's something that people wouldn't even notice or think about unless someone hyped up a big deal about it. 99% of the post-debate focus is going to be on things that Trump and the Democratic candidate said during the debate, not about some handshake that takes all of 1 second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael View Post
It's the little things that can turn an election. Al Gore lost major points during the Bush debates with his eye rolling and condescending sighs. While any one thing by itself may not be enough to lose the election, it all adds up.
And don't forget the points GHWB lost against Clinton when he kept checking his watch.
  #52  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:38 PM
Fair Rarity's Avatar
Fair Rarity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,203
Probably because it's a sense of normalcy and diplomacy, but no smiles.

Although I think it's a moot point because if he is still in office next summer/fall, I don't think he'd do a debate. I think he'd make a list of unreasonable demands and then say the hosts are against him and not show up at all. He would have to face tough questions and he doesn't do that anymore unless there's a helicopter nearby so he can pretend he doesn't hear and has to go.
  #53  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:43 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
And don't forget the points GHWB lost against Clinton when he kept checking his watch.
He also shook Clinton's hand. Every time the candidates shake hands one of them loses. Clearly, shaking hands is a bad idea.
  #54  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:46 PM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,465
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Heh. Reminds me of the (Stalin? I wanna say Stalin) quote How many legions has the Pope? That one got a lot of callbacks when Kayol Wojtyla assumed the Papacy.
Yes, it was Stalin. He said it to Pierre Laval, the French Prime Minister, in 1935. The actual quote was "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"

But let's put it down as a maybe. It apparently wasn't attributed to Stalin until years later. And similar remarks had been attributed to Bismarck and Napoleon. So it can be used to make the rhetorical point that the person in question isn't concerned with morality and only cares about military power.
  #55  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:46 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair Rarity View Post
Although I think it's a moot point because if he is still in office next summer/fall, I don't think he'd do a debate. I think he'd make a list of unreasonable demands and then say the hosts are against him and not show up at all. He would have to face tough questions and he doesn't do that anymore unless there's a helicopter nearby so he can pretend he doesn't hear and has to go.

This is a distinct possibility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
Best thing to do, I think, is shake his hand but yank it aggressively like he does in a way which says “Yeah, I’m shaking your hand, but I still hate your fucking guts”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
How about this? They shake politely, and then when Trump turns away, they take some wipes out and calmly clean their hand.

A small bottle of sanitizer would also be good.

I like both of these.
  #56  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:34 AM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 85,111
Say, can we arrange for Trump and Jimmy Carter to shake hands at some event? I'd really love to see Trump get his fingerbones crushed by a nonagenarian.
  #57  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:37 AM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
And don't forget the points GHWB lost against Clinton when he kept checking his watch.
On the other hand, Trump stalking around the stage like an idiot with a runny nose didn't cost him.

Last edited by bobot; 10-11-2019 at 08:37 AM.
  #58  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:37 AM
skdo23 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
The Democratic nominee should shake the President's hand.

Even if it's Trump.
Yeah, being an adult means still respecting the process if not the person.
  #59  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:38 PM
Hari Seldon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Trantor
Posts: 13,067
I would have liked to see Hillary turn around and say, "Go back up your tree" when he stalked her during their debate.

Of course, the Dem should shake. Why even think about it?

As for cancelling the election, I don't see how it could work. It's organized state by state. I suppose he could refuse to step down, but everyone would ignore him. I predict he would boycott the inauguration if he loses.
  #60  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:15 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
I predict he would boycott the inauguration if he loses.

I like your prediction. But you won’t get Doper bragging rights if it comes true:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=877271
  #61  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:02 AM
GoodOmens is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,151
I like the idea of following up the handshake with a Kazuchika Okada style Rainmaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y96K9laTygc

Or, if you prefer going a bit more classic, the Jake the Snake Roberts short-arm clothesline. That was one of my favorite moves as a youngling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlFw5Aybycc

More seriously, yes, shake his hand. Follow the expected procedure. Tell the truth. The Democratic nominee won't win by fighting dirty for the same reason you don't mud wrestle with a pig.
  #62  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:23 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,674
Interesting that you see refusing to shake hands as "fighting dirty". I see it as almost diametrically the opposite: refusing to convey the sense of dignity and legitimacy that a handshake implies. Some would argue that those things are inherent in the office of the presidency, but I would say Donald Trump has singlehandedly proven that this ain't necessarily so. And I believe refusing to shake hands with him would send the message that our standards must be higher than what he represents.
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc

Last edited by SlackerInc; 10-15-2019 at 11:24 PM.
  #63  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:42 PM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,045
I suppose the Democratic nominee will have to, assuming there is a debate, which seems uncertain from Chump's side. But the Dem Nominee would be well advised to sanitize said hand as thoroughly as possible as soon as possible.
__________________
The two most interesting things in the world: Other people's sex lives and your own money.
  #64  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:17 AM
Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 22,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
And I believe refusing to shake hands with him would send the message that our standards must be higher than what he represents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man
If the Democratic nominee doesn’t do it he looks petty, which will cost him votes with moderates. If he does do it our screechy hyper annoying progressive base will throw a shit fit that’ll make the rest of us look like idiots, be picked up and amplified for the best part of a week on FOX and social media, and also cost us votes with moderates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Cadfael
If the Democratic nominee does shake hands, s/he will piss off people who absolutely will vote for them anyway. If s/he does not, they will piss off people who might vote for them, or might vote for the other guy.

Pretty simple cost/benefit analysis. Shake his hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity
In fact, this sounds almost like some sabotage job that 4chan would try to do: Deliberately hype up "The Handshake Issue" among Democrats until it takes on monumental meaning, thus paralyzing the candidate with indecision over what would, 99% of the time, be an utterly insignificant and unnoticeable thing.
Yeah, whatever happened to the sacred principle of courting the moderate vote by not doing stuff that's "divisive" among Democrats? Trying to launch "The Handshake Issue" as a politichatter topic seems like just more stirring of the shitkettle in order to gin up some kind of "controversy" for no sensible reason.
  #65  
Old 10-16-2019, 02:53 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,674
I submit that if there is no planning about it in advance and the nominee just walks in and shakes his hand, there will definitely be outraged reactions from the left.

Whereas I'm not seeing the peril of refusing to shake hands and perhaps making this part of the pre-debate protocol. Then you don't stiff him when he reaches out his hand, you just go to your separate podiums and not have an awkward moment.

The idea that we can have a handshake to preserve civility is absolutely correct when it's Mitt Romney. When it's Trump, that's kind of silly. He has uttered absolutely heinous and slanderous calumnies about the Democrats, and will continue to spout more such filth and probably worse as things begin to look more dire for him. The Democrats have (correctly) said that he is unfit, grotesque, that he has betrayed his oath of office, is the most corrupt president ever, and that our very republic is at stake if we don't get him out. The civility is already long gone!
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc

Last edited by SlackerInc; 10-16-2019 at 02:55 AM.
  #66  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:22 PM
Shodan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 39,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
I submit that if there is no planning about it in advance and the nominee just walks in and shakes his hand, there will definitely be outraged reactions from the left.
I think you are almost certainly mistaken. Nobody will care, nor should they.
Quote:
Whereas I'm not seeing the peril of refusing to shake hands and perhaps making this part of the pre-debate protocol. Then you don't stiff him when he reaches out his hand, you just go to your separate podiums and not have an awkward moment.
And then he comes over and offers his hand, and you have the choice of behaving like a civilized adult politician, or being petty and scoring points with the more extreme of your supporters and losing points with everyone else.
Quote:
The idea that we can have a handshake to preserve civility is absolutely correct when it's Mitt Romney. When it's Trump, that's kind of silly.
WADR you are IMO making the same mistake as other candidates have done in the past.

You don't wrestle with a pig in the mud. You just get muddy, and the pig enjoys it.

No one is going to out-petty Trump. Getting into a contest of that sort is a guaranteed loss. "I can look just as bad as Trump" - no, you can't. He's got way more practice at it than you do.

If you want to run on being better than Trump, you are actually going to have to be better than Trump. If you can't even manage that...

Regards,
Shodan
  #67  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:20 PM
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 10,618
See what you've done, SlackerInc ? You've forced me and Shodan to be on the same side of an issue. You should be ashamed of yourself.
__________________
I can't help being a gorgeous fiend. It's just the card I drew.
  #68  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:22 PM
XT's Avatar
XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 35,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I think you are almost certainly mistaken. Nobody will care, nor should they.
And then he comes over and offers his hand, and you have the choice of behaving like a civilized adult politician, or being petty and scoring points with the more extreme of your supporters and losing points with everyone else.
WADR you are IMO making the same mistake as other candidates have done in the past.

You don't wrestle with a pig in the mud. You just get muddy, and the pig enjoys it.

No one is going to out-petty Trump. Getting into a contest of that sort is a guaranteed loss. "I can look just as bad as Trump" - no, you can't. He's got way more practice at it than you do.

If you want to run on being better than Trump, you are actually going to have to be better than Trump. If you can't even manage that...

Regards,
Shodan
It's sort of like my own slacking ability. Trump has both an inborn natural talent for being petty, and he's worked hard, all his life to refine and develop that talent to the greatest human extent possible!
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #69  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:46 PM
Omar Little's Avatar
Omar Little is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Within
Posts: 13,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
^^ Yeah, I see it the other way around. Trump won't shake hands with anyone, even republicans.
https://media.pri.org/s3fs-public/st.../RTSPKWH_2.jpg
  #70  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:36 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,674
You’re barking up the wrong tree. Every time someone says minor corruption doesn’t matter because Trump is so much worse, or that it doesn’t matter how little experience a Democratic candidate has because Trump had even less, I am the first to object. This is not about “out-pettying” Trump, but about declaring him beyond the bounds of civil society and its norms. It’s an extraordinary measure for an extraordinary situation.

I would actually advise the candidate to state upfront that “Trump does not even deserve to be debated, and should no longer be in office if GOP senators did their constitutional duty, but I don’t want anyone to mistake my stance for cowardice, so I am here to denounce his misdeeds and lay out my vision for the country.”

When the Goldman family sued OJ Simpson in civil court, should they have shaken his hand at the beginning of the trial?

Last edited by SlackerInc; 10-16-2019 at 06:37 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017