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  #35901  
Old 08-24-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
No, not at all. I'm not saying that he doesn't hate minorities and treat them with contempt, I'm just saying that he hates everyone and treats everyone with contempt. That minorities are an easy target for him to lash out at is convenient, and reflexive.
I'd say it's more like this:

Trump is a Trump-supremacist. He's been raised from an early age to believe he has the best genes and is incapable of error. These things have contributed to the creation of a monster.

Now, on the one hand, it's true that he's doesn't really give a shit about most whites. He generally only cares about racist policies and rhetoric because it makes his crowds cheer.

But on the other hand, being white himself, white supremacism is quite consistent with Trump-supremacy. So some of what they say appeals to him on an intellectual level, to the extent he (or they) have one.

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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Case in point, American farmers are in danger of losing the Chinese market not just for this year, but for a very, very long time. I would not expect the Chinese to just forgive and forget. They will punish those who voted for this idiot, and punish them good.
It doesn't even need to come down to "punish".

Chinese culture is less individualistic, and tends to be more long-term (obviously there are pros and cons to this).
The US looks like a country that does not honor agreements and behaves extremely erratically.
China won't forget that, and the excuse that it was just Trump may not wash.

Of course, the US is far too big a market to ignore, so deals will still need to be made. But trump's legacy will affect how easy this will be to do, what terms can be expected and the breadth of such deals, negatively in all 3 senses.

And if you're only signing the bare minimum trade deals, there's less potential of quid pro quos on more broad agreements such as relating to security or the environment.

Last edited by Mijin; 08-24-2019 at 01:11 PM.
  #35902  
Old 08-24-2019, 01:23 PM
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It doesn't even need to come down to "punish".

Chinese culture is less individualistic, and tends to be more long-term (obviously there are pros and cons to this).
The US looks like a country that does not honor agreements and behaves extremely erratically.
China won't forget that, and the excuse that it was just Trump may not wash.
Well said.

I agree: it's not so much that China will "punish" the United States as it is the fact that they will never again believe that we're stable and reliable enough to put so many eggs in the American basket. This is one example of how post-Trump America will have diminished clout. As you say, our market is still big enough to warrant attention, but all countries look at the US now as a country that has badly destabilized politically, and over time, we will become less of a safe haven. And merely being thought of as a safe haven undoubtedly generates a rather substantial amount of capital inflow and generates money and jobs throughout the economy. Losing that will have economic consequences.
  #35903  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:06 PM
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I'd say it's more like this:

Trump is a Trump-supremacist. He's been raised from an early age to believe he has the best genes and is incapable of error. These things have contributed to the creation of a monster.

Now, on the one hand, it's true that he's doesn't really give a shit about most whites. He generally only cares about racist policies and rhetoric because it makes his crowds cheer.

But on the other hand, being white himself, white supremacism is quite consistent with Trump-supremacy. So some of what they say appeals to him on an intellectual level, to the extent he (or they) have one.
I don't disagree. I just find that it is useful to remember that while the effect is similar, the motivations are not.
Quote:


It doesn't even need to come down to "punish".

Chinese culture is less individualistic, and tends to be more long-term (obviously there are pros and cons to this).
The US looks like a country that does not honor agreements and behaves extremely erratically.
China won't forget that, and the excuse that it was just Trump may not wash.
which is why we need to show to the world that we find him unacceptable. If we just treat him as another president in a line of presidents, then the world has good reason to not trust us to elect another one. If we kick him out in such a way that shows that future demagogues will not be tolerated, then the world may decide to take us seriously again.
  #35904  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:09 PM
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I don't disagree. I just find that it is useful to remember that while the effect is similar, the motivations are not.


which is why we need to show to the world that we find him unacceptable. If we just treat him as another president in a line of presidents, then the world has good reason to not trust us to elect another one. If we kick him out in such a way that shows that future demagogues will not be tolerated, then the world may decide to take us seriously again.
We treat him like he's just another president every day. He's "normal" now, which was inevitable when we elected him. America will have scars to show for this era - no getting around that.
  #35905  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:12 PM
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Well said.

I agree: it's not so much that China will "punish" the United States as it is the fact that they will never again believe that we're stable and reliable enough to put so many eggs in the American basket. This is one example of how post-Trump America will have diminished clout. As you say, our market is still big enough to warrant attention, but all countries look at the US now as a country that has badly destabilized politically, and over time, we will become less of a safe haven. And merely being thought of as a safe haven undoubtedly generates a rather substantial amount of capital inflow and generates money and jobs throughout the economy. Losing that will have economic consequences.
And just wait for the US dollar to stop being the de facto currency of international trade.


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We treat him like he's just another president every day. He's "normal" now, which was inevitable when we elected him. America will have scars to show for this era - no getting around that.
We've never successfully impeached a president. If we do that, we show that we don't find him normal either.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 08-24-2019 at 02:14 PM.
  #35906  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:29 PM
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China also has time. The Chinese are savers more than they are consumers, so even if their economic growth slides down to near 2-3% (it's currently around 5-7%), they can endure more pain. And politically, Trump is making it a lot easier on Xi because Xi's opponents within the CCP and ordinary people on the street are going to be less inclined to suggest that Xi Jinping provoked Trump, but rather Trump is a deranged nutcase looking for a fight. Increasingly, from the Chinese vantage point, it doesn't matter what they say or do - Trump wants a fight and he wants to embarrass the Chinese, and China's not going to just sit back and take it.

When the trade war started, Trump had the advantage - he still holds some advantages. The US was clearly set up to win a short to mid-range tactical trade war that could produce some concessions. No doubt, China is still very vulnerable. But increasingly, the advantage is shifting to China. Case in point, American farmers are in danger of losing the Chinese market not just for this year, but for a very, very long time. I would not expect the Chinese to just forgive and forget. They will punish those who voted for this idiot, and punish them good.
I knew that China would be willing to suffer economic problems longer than the US, partially, and as mentioned above, because there is no election coming up. But one thing I did not think of, I don't think Xi Jinping is going to agree to anything that lets Trump claim some victory over China.

The trade imbalance with China is a problelm. I hope it gets solved. But I am in this horrible position where I hope it doesn't get done for a few years, after Trump is gone. I'm like those Republican voters continually voting against their own interests, supporing trickle down economics. We are in a position now where I think we have to be like McConnel when Obama got elected, we have to oppose anything Trump does no matter what it is. I'm like Bill Maher last year, it's either a recession or lose your democracy. I mean I'm not saying we should try and cause a recession but I can't say I would be heartbroken if it happens.

This is what Trump has done to this country.
  #35907  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:32 PM
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I knew that China would be willing to suffer economic problems longer than the US, partially, and as mentioned above, because there is no election coming up. But one thing I did not think of, I don't think Xi Jinping is going to agree to anything that lets Trump claim some victory over China.

The trade imbalance with China is a problelm. I hope it gets solved. But I am in this horrible position where I hope it doesn't get done for a few years, after Trump is gone. I'm like those Republican voters continually voting against their own interests, supporing trickle down economics. We are in a position now where I think we have to be like McConnel when Obama got elected, we have to oppose anything Trump does no matter what it is. I'm like Bill Maher last year, it's either a recession or lose your democracy. I mean I'm not saying we should try and cause a recession but I can't say I would be heartbroken if it happens.

This is what Trump has done to this country.
Why is the trade imbalance with China a problem?

Is your trade imbalance with your local grocery store a problem?
  #35908  
Old 08-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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Why is the trade imbalance with China a problem?

Is your trade imbalance with your local grocery store a problem?
Maybe it isn't. Maybe it is. I said I don't know much about economics.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-...does-it-matter
  #35909  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:10 PM
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Sorry, my bad, I meant "clean" coal. Everybody knows there's no such thing as "clear" coal.
Actually, there is... we call it "diamonds".
  #35910  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:11 PM
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I knew that China would be willing to suffer economic problems longer than the US, partially, and as mentioned above, because there is no election coming up. But one thing I did not think of, I don't think Xi Jinping is going to agree to anything that lets Trump claim some victory over China.

The trade imbalance with China is a problelm. I hope it gets solved. But I am in this horrible position where I hope it doesn't get done for a few years, after Trump is gone. I'm like those Republican voters continually voting against their own interests, supporing trickle down economics. We are in a position now where I think we have to be like McConnel when Obama got elected, we have to oppose anything Trump does no matter what it is. I'm like Bill Maher last year, it's either a recession or lose your democracy. I mean I'm not saying we should try and cause a recession but I can't say I would be heartbroken if it happens.

This is what Trump has done to this country.
The trade imbalance is really not the issue, and it never should have been. I won't disagree that the Chinese government could do more to help American businesses reach Chinese consumers, but American brands have done well in China. And Chinese investors have helped the American economy. If there's one area where we really had good reason to go after China it's theft of technology -- that was worth at least a small skirmish over.

But taking on China unilaterally while also threatening similar trade wars with allies who could have helped us isolate China was just pure stupidity. In short, we've wasted some economic bullets.

I've been saying for a while that the only way Americans are going to get rid of the scourge of conservatism is to live with its consequences. Let's maybe take away social safety nets, including SS and medicare, take away federal stimulus during economic downturns, and then see how Americans like it. They probably won't.
  #35911  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
I guess the reason that I make the distinction is because I see many racists who are willing to accept harm to themselves, so long as it results in harm to those they don't like. Trump is not willing to accept harm to himself in order to harm others, but harms others in an attempt to satisfy his own greed. Not that that doesn't cause him harm as well, but that is due to short sightedness and incompetence, rather than design. If Trump were motivated by mere racism, it would be easier to secure, contain, and protect.
So... you're proposing calling in the SCP Foundation? To Secure, Contain, and Protect? You think things have gotten that bad?


  #35912  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:18 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqHZWdFVyyQ

So I guess Trump does have the right to order companies out of China if it's a national emergency. I don't think higher prices qualify, but if he could, I sure Trump would support a military solution.
  #35913  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:23 PM
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Maybe it isn't. Maybe it is. I said I don't know much about economics.
Obviously, and yet this does not stop you from making conclusive statements about international economics.

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Originally Posted by Mike Mabes View Post
So I guess Trump does have the right to order companies out of China if it's a national emergency. I don't think higher prices qualify, but if he could, I sure Trump would support a military solution.
Yeah....I'm sure that'll go over just fine and dandy with Ford, ExxonMobil, the Koch Group, and pretty much every major American company that does any business overseas.
  #35914  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:27 PM
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So... you're proposing calling in the SCP Foundation? To Secure, Contain, and Protect? You think things have gotten that bad?


I didn't even look to see who wrote that. I'm just saying that that article is now all I know about the trade imbalance. Except for what Asashi said above, and I did know about the "theft of intellectual property" thing.

Oh and I remember many years ago, I think it was Milton Friedman on Donahue or something, basically saying China, and other countries, should make the things they are good at making, and we should make the things we are good at making. If it results in a trade deficit, so be it
  #35915  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:32 PM
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Obviously, and yet this does not stop you from making conclusive statements about international economics.



Yeah....I'm sure that'll go over just fine and dandy with Ford, ExxonMobil, the Koch Group, and pretty much every major American company that does any business overseas.
I wasn't trying to make any conclusive statements, unless you count my assumption that the trade imbalance was a big deal. Why do you think I said that? Because I didn't know the answers

It's a joke, did you click on the link?
  #35916  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:48 PM
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So... you're proposing calling in the SCP Foundation? To Secure, Contain, and Protect? You think things have gotten that bad?


I do wonder if we are dealing with some dangerous memetic SCP's sometimes.

But then I just take a class D amnestic, and I'm all good.

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Originally Posted by Mike Mabes View Post
I didn't even look to see who wrote that. I'm just saying that that article is now all I know about the trade imbalance. Except for what Asashi said above, and I did know about the "theft of intellectual property" thing.

Oh and I remember many years ago, I think it was Milton Friedman on Donahue or something, basically saying China, and other countries, should make the things they are good at making, and we should make the things we are good at making. If it results in a trade deficit, so be it
Right, and that is always the most effiecient way to run any market.

If we want to correct a trade imbalance, the way to do that is to make more stuff that other people want, and sell it to them.

One of our big exports is not physical products, but movies and games. The last Avengers movie alone brought almost 2 billion dollars to our country.
  #35917  
Old 08-24-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Mabes View Post
Oh and I remember many years ago, I think it was Milton Friedman on Donahue or something, basically saying China, and other countries, should make the things they are good at making, and we should make the things we are good at making. If it results in a trade deficit, so be it
Does that include stealing plans for things the other guy makes well and selling them to him?
  #35918  
Old 08-24-2019, 04:25 PM
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I wonder if this has anything to do with Trump's feud with the Fed and his constant insistence that interest rates need to be cut:

Trump’s company could save millions if interest rates fall as he demands

Quote:
President Trump stands to save millions of dollars annually in interest on outstanding loans on his hotels and resorts if the Federal Reserve lowers rates as he has been demanding, according to public filings and financial experts.

In the five years before he became president, Trump borrowed more than $360 million via four loans from Deutsche Bank for his hotels in Washington, D.C., and Chicago, as well his 643-room Doral golf resort in South Florida.

The payments on all four properties vary with interest rate changes, according to Trump’s official financial disclosures. That means he has already benefited from falling interest rates that were spurred in part by a cut the Federal Reserve announced in July, the first in more than a decade — and his payments could drop by millions of dollars more annually if the central bank grants Trump’s wish and further lowers short-term rates, experts said.
I'm shocked, shocked to find personal financial enrichment is going on in here!
  #35919  
Old 08-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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So... you're proposing calling in the SCP Foundation? To Secure, Contain, and Protect? You think things have gotten that bad?


I've long suspected that whatever that is on Trump's head is an escaped SCP...
  #35920  
Old 08-24-2019, 05:19 PM
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Does that include stealing plans for things the other guy makes well and selling them to him?
I don't know, I don't know much about international law
  #35921  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:12 PM
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Without even learning a lot about that, here's a dependable rule of thumb. If Donald Trump is for it, it's a disasterous fucking idea and should be shunned. Likewise if he is against something, then reverse the shunning into an embracing.
  #35922  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Skypist View Post
Apparently he tweeted from the presidential toilet that he can use the Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977.
According to the NYT, we should be grateful that this law is available to Trump---because before 1977, he'd have had MORE power to screw things up:

Quote:
Under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, a president can declare a “national emergency” in case of “any unusual and extraordinary threat” to “the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States” from abroad. This triggers special authority for the president to regulate “any transactions in foreign exchange” by Americans.

The law was passed to define and restrain presidential power, which until then had been interpreted expansively under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917. It has served ever since as the main source of authority for presidents to impose sanctions on countries or individuals in response to specific national security threats, such as the Iranian hostage crisis that began in 1979.

As of March 1, presidents had declared 54 emergencies under the law, of which 29 were still active, according to the Congressional Research Service. Presidents have used it to target international terrorists, drug kingpins, human rights abusers, cyber attackers, illegal arms proliferators and multinational criminal organizations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/w...il&login=email

(my emphasis)

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Wow, was that really his Twitter account? I've avoided it all this time because not only does he sicken me but also I don't get how Twitter works. Message boards are so much easier to understand. Anyway, awful lot of idiots on there declaring that "Americans" stand with him and other barf-inducing comments.
Trump has quite a few real Twitter followers and also quite a few pre-programmed bot followers, both of which praise his every tweet effusively. Rest assured, there are millions more on Twitter who do not "stand with" him.

(Twitter has its good points, but it was never very useful for extended dialogues or conversations. And it's gotten worse with the recent "upgrade" in which it's practically impossible to get from one tweet-reply to the thread it's part of, or to the original tweet to which it is a reply. Very annoying. Guess they figure they'll make more money off context-less one-off posts. Not sure how they'd make more money that way, but that seems to be what they're going for.)
  #35923  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:51 PM
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Obviously, and yet this does not stop you from making conclusive statements about international economics.



Yeah....I'm sure that'll go over just fine and dandy with Ford, ExxonMobil, the Koch Group, and pretty much every major American company that does any business overseas.
I'd like to see a full page ad from the Business Roundtable:

Dear President Trump:
You can go fuck yourself.

Plus some calls to Moscow Mitch and his ilk that Trump ass lickers are not going to get another penny unless they stomp on this Communist shit.

Where is the John Birch Society when we need them?
  #35924  
Old 08-24-2019, 08:29 PM
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But taking on China unilaterally while also threatening similar trade wars with allies who could have helped us isolate China was just pure stupidity. In short, we've wasted some economic bullets.
Fiting them into the air while shouting "Yeee-haw!" at least offered some short-term entertainment value.
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  #35925  
Old 08-24-2019, 09:52 PM
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I've been saying for a while that the only way Americans are going to get rid of the scourge of conservatism is to live with its consequences. Let's maybe take away social safety nets, including SS and medicare, take away federal stimulus during economic downturns, and then see how Americans like it. They probably won't.
Well, you're right. They won't like it.

But they will blame Obama and socialism, and elect another dumb-ass Republican who will screw things up even more.

I really think you're fucked.
  #35926  
Old 08-24-2019, 09:57 PM
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Without even learning a lot about that, here's a dependable rule of thumb. If Donald Trump is for it, it's a disasterous fucking idea and should be shunned. Likewise if he is against something, then reverse the shunning into an embracing.
It doesn't really matter. Look at infrastructure development; that was one of Trump's key issues when he was running and it's a good idea.

But what's happened since he got elected? Virtually nothing. Trump screws it up even when he has a good idea.
  #35927  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:14 PM
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It doesn't really matter. Look at infrastructure development; that was one of Trump's key issues when he was running and it's a good idea.

But what's happened since he got elected? Virtually nothing. Trump screws it up even when he has a good idea.
He's still trying to figure out how he can personally make money off this. That's the most important thing.
  #35928  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:14 PM
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It'll be more fun when you can write them from the perspective of him sitting on his toilet in his jail cell while being under suicide watch.

They won't let him have a phone, so we will just have to fill in for him.

No doubt. Looking forward to it!

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Yeah, 25 is really meant for when the President is actually incapable of performing duties, like he's severely disabled or in a coma. It's harder to justify it just because he's dangerously insane. It's technically harder than impeachment if he contests it at all. I only bring it up as it is one of very few legal methods of removal, and in a rational world, being dangerously insane *should* invoke the 25th.

That's the problem. We live in a rational world and for the most part so do those responsible for 25th/impeachment. Trump does not.

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His death concerns me a bit too. He needs to be brought down first, otherwise, he's a martyr. Pretty sure it wasn't long ago in this thread that someone mentioned that cults have a living leader, religions have a dead leader. We don't need Trumpism to turn into a religion.

His death concerns me, especially if he dies in office. I think if that happens, many bigots will actually attack minorities, far more than what happened after 9/11.

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We just have to keep on working on changing public perception. Congress is not going to lead on this one, they are going to follow. As soon as it seems likely that an impeachment will be confirmed in the senate, the articles will be passed, but until then, I think that Pelosi et al. see it as too much of a gamble with too much potential for blowback.

That's not going to happen unless and until there is a D majority in the Senate. Trump's supporters are immune to changing their perception, so that's a wash. They believe what comes out of Trump's mouth.


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No, I agree and want him out. I just am not sure that we can get him out through the legal avenues that are made available to us. The impeachment process is meant to be hard, and it is made harder because there are a number of people who are also finding ways of profiting from having him in office, and as long as that is the case, it will not succeed in the senate.

I believe we're stuck with him and it's going to get uglier.

Quote:
He's rewarded for racist behavior, so he continues with racist behavior.

He's a sociopath, he doesn't hate black people any more than he hates white people, he just sees more reward in being public with his hate towards minorities.

A racist hates minorities because he believes that somehow or other, those minorities cause him harm by existing. Trump talks about his hatred towards minorities because his followers like it.

It's just that calling him a racist risks dismissing his actions as simply motivated by racism, when they are much more dangerous, they are motivated by wanting to impress and ingratiate himself with racists.


The point is is that he takes the same actions as a racist, but it is not motivated by racism, or at least, not solely by racism.

I guess the reason that I make the distinction is because I see many racists who are willing to accept harm to themselves, so long as it results in harm to those they don't like. Trump is not willing to accept harm to himself in order to harm others, but harms others in an attempt to satisfy his own greed. Not that that doesn't cause him harm as well, but that is due to short sightedness and incompetence, rather than design. If Trump were motivated by mere racism, it would be easier to secure, contain, and protect.

He is racist. Only racists do racist crap. How did he discover he gets rewarded for it? Because his racist self did racist crap. And yes he does hate Blacks more than he hates whites. Did you ever hear him clamoring for innocent whites to be executed? No! The opposite occurred: he used his office to interfere with a white murderer's trial and then pardoned the scum or commmuted the sentence.

Those racists who accept harm to themselves? They're just stupid racists as far as doing racist crap. Racists and other assorted bigots gemerally are not long-term planners. In Trump's cases, he has always been protected and insulated from consequences for his racist and bigoted actions. Only now it's the Senate is protecting him.
  #35929  
Old 08-25-2019, 01:28 AM
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It doesn't really matter. Look at infrastructure development; that was one of Trump's key issues when he was running and it's a good idea.

But what's happened since he got elected? Virtually nothing. Trump screws it up even when he has a good idea.
The problem is that Trump views every negotiation as zero sum. There must be a winner and a loser. This makes bi-partisanship impossible. Since Trump by definition won't be satisfied unless the Democrats are unhappy with the deal.
  #35930  
Old 08-25-2019, 03:14 AM
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Chinese culture is less individualistic, and tends to be more long-term (obviously there are pros and cons to this).
The US looks like a country that does not honor agreements and behaves extremely erratically.
China won't forget that, and the excuse that it was just Trump may not wash.

Of course, the US is far too big a market to ignore, so deals will still need to be made. But trump's legacy will affect how easy this will be to do, what terms can be expected and the breadth of such deals, negatively in all 3 senses.
And not just for China, but for anybody else: details which previously weren't put in writing will; more checks will be put in place (inspections! audits! records of whether your bathrooom breaks were for number 1, 2 or 3!)... it isn't "just Trump": it's Trump, those who voted for him and those who stood on the sides saying "oopsies but nothing we can do". Franco didn't win the '36 Civil War by himself (despite apparently nobody but him, my grandfather and my great-uncle being on that side), Trump isn't the only one peeing on every inch of trust the US had built.
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Last edited by Nava; 08-25-2019 at 03:16 AM.
  #35931  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:17 AM
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And just wait for the US dollar to stop being the de facto currency of international trade.




We've never successfully impeached a president. If we do that, we show that we don't find him normal either.
Maybe, but I think the real take-away will be that America's on fire, that our political system is at a breaking point. Remember, even if it results in the removal of a bad president, impeachment is a bold statement that the American voting public got it way, way wrong.

What would give the world greater confidence is if that same voting public shoved Donald Trump and the entire Republican party out of office and made it clear, with voting power, with people power, that we have certain values that are worth defending and we won't tolerate those values being trampled on.

The reason I've been so radically outspoken and pessimistic about the future of this country is that I don't see that happening. I still see a country that is shell-shocked and confused a decade after the Great Recession, and one that is still highly tolerant of blatant corruption. I see a citizenry that is susceptible to conspiracy theories and lies.

I don't think this gets better until people get a taste of truth, and even then, there is no guarantee that they'll understand what's happening and respond accordingly. They could just as easily double down on racism and xenophobia. A major catastrophe is probably a necessary condition for change, but not necessarily a sufficient one.
  #35932  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:20 AM
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Remember, even if it results in the removal of a bad president, impeachment is a bold statement that the American voting public got it way, way wrong.
Is it? Maybe it is perceived that way in the US, but in many other countries it would be considered similar to our "votes of non-confidence" and those are a normal thing (hell, Italy had periods when they changed government more often than fashion season and they didn't sink into the Mediterranean); usually they mean that whichever situation got that fellow elected has changed. What's not normal is having a president who's not mature enough for kindergarten. That the POTUS is both head of state and head of government makes the situation even more dire, not less.
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  #35933  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:25 AM
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Is it? Maybe it is perceived that way in the US, but in many other countries it would be considered similar to our "votes of non-confidence" and those are a normal thing; usually they mean that whichever situation got that fellow elected has changed. What's not normal is having a president who's not mature enough for kindergarten. That the POTUS is both head of state and head of government makes the situation even worse.
In a parliamentary system, power is more fluid and thus a no-confidence vote is sort of another mechanism within that system. In a presidential system, the assumption is that the person elected will function with minimal competence for the four year term for which he was elected. I agree that it's better to impeach someone who clearly turns out not to be competent than to let the situation fester, but in terms of what the impeachment represents, I think impeachment is a pretty bad indictment of voters - about the worst indictment there is really.
  #35934  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:34 AM
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Just looking at the G7 headlines, this is probably the moment it's sinking in (at least for me) that the United States is in a state of rapid decline as a world power. Presumably, people show up there with the understanding that the American president is only to be feared and not respected, and only feared in the sense that nobody knows what the hell he's going to do next. Trump is doing to American foreign relations what Bolsonaro is doing to the Amazon rain forests.
  #35935  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:40 AM
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In a parliamentary system, power is more fluid and thus a no-confidence vote is sort of another mechanism within that system. In a presidential system, the assumption is that the person elected will function with minimal competence for the four year term for which he was elected. I agree that it's better to impeach someone who clearly turns out not to be competent than to let the situation fester, but in terms of what the impeachment represents, I think impeachment is a pretty bad indictment of voters - about the worst indictment there is really.
There's other presidential systems where the President changing isn't the end of the world. Yours isn't the only presidential system. I'm not even clear on whether this is yet another instance of American exceptionalism, or simply a case of being too busy crying to raise your eyes and look out.
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  #35936  
Old 08-25-2019, 02:11 PM
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I love today's headline from NPR -- not a source normally known for snark: "Trump Walks Back Statements on China; White House Walks Them Forward"
  #35937  
Old 08-25-2019, 02:54 PM
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So I've seen two videos from the G7 summit.
One of Individual 1 with President Macron, and as Macron is speaking, Individual 1 is just aimlessly looking around as if he's bored.
The second is of Indivdual 1 standing next to Melania, and as Angela Merkel approaches, he sticks out her hand and she ignores him and takes Melania's hand and talks to her.
  #35938  
Old 08-25-2019, 04:12 PM
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He sticks out her hand? Is that his version of "only touching with a ten-foot pole"?
  #35939  
Old 08-25-2019, 04:46 PM
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It doesn't really matter. Look at infrastructure development; that was one of Trump's key issues when he was running and it's a good idea.

But what's happened since he got elected? Virtually nothing. Trump screws it up even when he has a good idea.
Someone needs to convince him he owns road and bridge repair companies or something. Con him into believing he's making money from all the infrastructure repairs and money for them will magically increase.
  #35940  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:26 PM
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Individual 1 with President Macron, and as Macron is speaking, Individual 1 is just aimlessly looking around as if he's bored.
"Bored" is his default setting whenever he's not the center of attention.
  #35941  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:25 PM
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Donald Trump suggested nuking hurricanes to stop them from hitting U.S..

https://www.axios.com/trump-nuclear-...mpaign=organic
  #35942  
Old 08-25-2019, 06:34 PM
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Donald Trump suggested nuking hurricanes to stop them from hitting U.S..
He's only planning on nuking a few. The rest will get the message.
  #35943  
Old 08-25-2019, 07:14 PM
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The second is of Indivdual 1 standing next to Melania, and as Angela Merkel approaches, he sticks out her hand and she ignores him and takes Melania's hand and talks to her.
If it is the same story, it was the Polish First Lady, not Merkel, who snubbed Trump. I'm pretty sure the only head of state who would do something that petty is Trump.
  #35944  
Old 08-25-2019, 07:20 PM
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Oh my God! Trump is a Doper!!!

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=794771

Those spoilsports at NOAA have a page up saying this wouldn't work, but that's just liberal scientific bias. https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html
  #35945  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:03 PM
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I agree. I don't trump to die. I want him to be the first incumbent to get a Goldwater/McGovern class drubbing at the polls.
  #35946  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:19 PM
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I think you inadvertently put an extra "r" at the end of the second sentence.

And you just know that Trump is never going to consider his Presidency complete unless he gets to order a nuclear detonation somewhere.
  #35947  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:30 PM
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Oh my God! Trump is a Doper!!!

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=794771

Those spoilsports at NOAA have a page up saying this wouldn't work, but that's just liberal scientific bias. https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html
Don't worry, in a couple of days, Wilbur Ross will inform them that they need to reach a more Trump friendly conclusion.
  #35948  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:42 PM
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And you just know that Trump is never going to consider his Presidency complete unless he gets to order a nuclear detonation somewhere.
Late 2019: Believing himself now to be an ever-living and indestructible God-King, Trump decides to silence the "Cadet Bone Spurs" hecklers in the peanut gallery once and for all, by leading the invasion of Greenland himself, right from the very front.
  #35949  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:55 PM
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Donald Trump suggested nuking hurricanes to stop them from hitting U.S..

https://www.axios.com/trump-nuclear-...mpaign=organic
White House response: A senior administration official said, "We don't comment on private discussions that the president may or may not have had with his national security team."

A different senior administration official, who has been briefed on the president's hurricane bombing suggestion, defended Trump's idea and said it was no cause for alarm. "His goal — to keep a catastrophic hurricane from hitting the mainland — is not bad," the official said. "His objective is not bad."
"What people near the president do is they say 'I love a president who asks questions like that, who’s willing to ask tough questions.' ... It takes strong people to respond to him in the right way when stuff like this comes up. For me, alarm bells weren't going off when I heard about it, but I did think somebody is going to use this to feed into 'the president is crazy' narrative."
Fuck.

These people, I swear.

Fuck.
  #35950  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:58 PM
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"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."
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