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Old 09-25-2018, 06:02 PM
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Just another hypothetical moral dilema

Bit tacky, so Ain't gonna poll it. Hypothetically, you have HIV, done time for rape and now seeking actively for job. For the sake of karma let say that you got HIV through rape. And you are exceptionally good at your job. You can confess to your potential employer either one, none or both. He might do check, tho, but is kind of job it is not likely to do so.

And now for the twist. You are the employer. What you do in each scenario.
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:13 PM
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So, let me just get this straight. I'm an employer, for a job that has NO POLITICAL IMPORTANCE WHATSOEVER, and where the person's opinions about rape and abortion and women's rights matter NOT AT ALL (except in how he might treat people on the job, which can be fully dealt with by human resources without the possibility of lingering effects on, oh I don't know, maybe case law). And of course the job doesn't depend upon his health or physical state, which it would probably be illegal for me to ask about anyway.

Also, I know nothing about this dude but what he tells me.

Presuming the dude doesn't mention that he's a criminal rapist, I won't react to that. I might if he tells me, if only because I have to be comfortable working with the dude. It may depend on how he explains the situation. (Does he breathe heavily while discussing his past actions in loving detail?)

Presuming the dude tells me he has HIV, I'll hand him our documentation on health insurance, sick leave, and how unexcused absences beyond that are dealt with.

Presuming he tells me about neither, I hire the woman instead because I'm a caricature of a liberal.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:06 PM
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Maybe he is guilt ridden. Do not know. To be honest, my writers blockage is wearing off and i want to examine some new ideas as neutrally as I can.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:19 PM
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If he is applying for a road construction job, I don't care.

If he is applying for a job at a McDonald's, I don't care.

If he is applying for a job that requires an SF-86, I care very much.

If he is applying for a job as a babysitter, I care very much.

Gosh, isn't it weird how the context and the situation can change the answer?
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:03 PM
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If I have two applicants who are qualified for the job and one committed rape in the past and the other one did not commit rape in the past, I'm going to pick the one who hasn't committed rape.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:32 PM
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What?
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:15 AM
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What?
Was that directed at me, the OP, or somebody else?
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:35 AM
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What?
yes, what? You are applying for a job with yourself and wondering whether to tell yourself things?
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Old 09-26-2018, 02:53 AM
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yes, what? You are applying for a job with yourself and wondering whether to tell yourself things?
LOL. That's exactly how I interpreted the OP.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:52 AM
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So you're an HIV positive rapist with multiple personality disorder. Do you employ yourself or not?

I love these hypothetical moral dilemmas. Just for the sake of clarity though, which one of the two personalities is the Hitler?

Last edited by Mangetout; 09-26-2018 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:53 AM
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Doesn't really matter, all you need to know is that he is an exceptionally good Hitler.
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:37 AM
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Doesn't really matter, all you need to know is that he is an exceptionally good Hitler.
How much of a gap is there between the really good Hitlers and the really bad ones?
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
So you're an HIV positive rapist with multiple personality disorder. Do you employ yourself or not?

I love these hypothetical moral dilemmas. Just for the sake of clarity though, which one of the two personalities is the Hitler?
And some of the personalities, I assume, are good people.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:37 AM
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And some of the personalities, I assume, are good people.

Regards,
Shodan
Hard to say. Maybe they think they're good, but that's what bad people think of themselves.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:50 AM
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How much of a gap is there between the really good Hitlers and the really bad ones?
The good ones go the extra mile to provide additional services, such as HIV Hitler.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:54 AM
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With that clarified, I feel like we are moments away from solving the dilemma.
  #17  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:18 AM
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Iím going to give OP the benefit of the doubt and hope that they are actually trying to make a point about asymmetrical information in the employment market.

Although at this point, Iím not sure what that would point would be.
  #18  
Old 09-26-2018, 11:52 AM
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Doesn't really matter, all you need to know is that he is an exceptionally good Hitler.
Let's give Hitler credit for the good things he did. He was, after all, the guy who killed Hitler.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:52 AM
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At the end, we discover that the HIV positive rapist has been dead all along, and that the "employer" was really....I guess I've said too much...
  #20  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by yo han go View Post
Maybe he is guilt ridden. Do not know. To be honest, my writers blockage is wearing off and i want to examine some new ideas as neutrally as I can.
Okay, so he's guilt ridden. (Presumably about the raping, not the HIV-having.) So he spontaneously tells me apropos of nothing that he's raped somebody, looking very sorrowful and in tears.

I'm the potential employer here (and I'm a different person than the guilt-ridden applicant, you jokers), and I'm sitting there, leaning way back in my chair, thinking to myself that damn, this guy is terrible at interviews. He's emotionally breaking down in front of me, a dude he doesn't know from Adam? His potential employer? What kind of impression does he think he's making? Is he going to be like this all the time? I like my offices to be be relatively drama-free. I like things calm. What's this guy going to be like when I surround him with other humans to cut loose to? What are my female employees going to think of him? What if he has to talk to a customer, and starts breaking down and talking to them about his criminal past?

"Um, I'm just going to cut this short. You seem like a nice guy, but I'm not sure you're what I'm looking for. Have a nice day." (And what I don't say is, get counselling.)
  #21  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:32 PM
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Setting aside the incomprehensibility of the scenario, was this really the best time to pose a rape hypothetical?
  #22  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:46 PM
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I don't know. Is it ever a good time?
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:59 PM
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I interpreted the OP as a thinly veiled argument in support of Kavanaugh being appointed to the supreme court, and responded accordingly. His response seems to be a claim on the order of "I'm researching it for a book!", though - and who knows, perhaps he really is just flailing about for a topic to write a story about. The job search difficulties of a rapist wouldn't be my first choice of topic, but then again I may just suffer from a failure of imagination.
  #24  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:53 PM
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Ok, thanks for your attention. I was more afraid of "wait OP, that was already discussed by xy in the yx book, movie, etc." Looks like it is original enough. Not yet sure if idea has more potential from the employer or employee point of view or might be just some intermezzo chapter.

As I see it, is tacky, as I said, highly improbable, but not impossible scenario in its rough creation. Yes, I could use other less stigmatized diseases and crimes, but hey, boooring. Mind you, I could an can stigmatize, ickyize (heh, new word) and controversize (another new word?) topic even more, but even I have some taste. And target audience is still more or less general public not some weird fetish cultists.
  #25  
Old 09-26-2018, 06:09 PM
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Ok, thanks for your attention. I was more afraid of "wait OP, that was already discussed by xy in the yx book, movie, etc." Looks like it is original enough. Not yet sure if idea has more potential from the employer or employee point of view or might be just some intermezzo chapter.

As I see it, is tacky, as I said, highly improbable, but not impossible scenario in its rough creation. Yes, I could use other less stigmatized diseases and crimes, but hey, boooring. Mind you, I could an can stigmatize, ickyize (heh, new word) and controversize (another new word?) topic even more, but even I have some taste. And target audience is still more or less general public not some weird fetish cultists.
What's your goal? Is it to make the applicant's life rougher, and thus inject drama? Is it to make the employer's life rougher, and thus inject drama? Who's the main character, anyway?

In my experience, writing an interesting-sounding scene without any idea of a plot just leaves you with an interesting-sounding scene. If you want to write a story, start by designing the story, and let the story tell you if the dude needs to be a past rapist with a deadly disease - and it'll tell you whether you need an employer who'll hire him or one who'll toss him out.

I'll tell you this though - being shocking for the sake of being shocking rather than to serve the story doesn't catch my interest as a reader. (Or as a writer, for that matter.)
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:33 PM
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As I said had about 6yo block now, so idea is still far from anything right now. But, ok. Let's go old for some style creative writing. We need idea, plot, protagonist(s), etc.

Possible plot (soft version): Barely of age marginal society man joins some gang that opportunistically sexually abused someone and got caught red handed. He discovers his talents while serving justice, gets some edu, maybe good reputation and after let say 5-10 y (good behavior, poor health) he is released and determined to do something something while he still can.

Not much and I think is too boring. A lot of hardcore drama opportunities, but still ...

Thanks for helping. It's therapeutic.

Last edited by yo han go; 09-26-2018 at 07:34 PM.
  #27  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:46 PM
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How much of a gap is there between the really good Hitlers and the really bad ones?
There are some very fine Hitlers on both sides.
  #28  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:48 PM
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I interpreted the OP as a thinly veiled argument in support of Kavanaugh being appointed to the supreme court, and responded accordingly.
The OP isn't an American so he probably doesn't care very much who sits on our Supreme Court.
  #29  
Old 09-26-2018, 09:31 PM
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I would not employ myself but I would write myself a strong letter of recommendation.
  #30  
Old 09-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by yo han go View Post
As I said had about 6yo block now, so idea is still far from anything right now. But, ok. Let's go old for some style creative writing. We need idea, plot, protagonist(s), etc.

Possible plot (soft version): Barely of age marginal society man joins some gang that opportunistically sexually abused someone and got caught red handed. He discovers his talents while serving justice, gets some edu, maybe good reputation and after let say 5-10 y (good behavior, poor health) he is released and determined to do something something while he still can.

Not much and I think is too boring. A lot of hardcore drama opportunities, but still ...

Thanks for helping. It's therapeutic.
Do you prefer the drama of him getting hired, or the drama of him getting rejected? (Which is not to say you can't have both; some rejections, then one hiring after he's found a tolerant employer/learned to keep his damn mouth shut.)

Presuming he keeps his mouth shut at the interview, that opens the door for more drama when the employer finds out that he bears the mark of a criminal, firing him, causing him to become desperate and steal some silver from a priest who forgives him, leading him to swear his life in the service of others and become the mayor of a town under a different name while eluding a police officer who's looking for him for some reason.

Though that might already have been done. In any case it comes down to what serves the story. I believe it's been shown you can easily achieve whichever of the hiring/not hiring outcomes you prefer by adjusting how much the guy admits during his interview, and how he says what he does admit.

Last edited by begbert2; 09-27-2018 at 01:58 PM. Reason: typo
  #31  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:15 PM
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Thinking in progress /morning dump ... shower ... toothbrush ... bing!

How about both characters are being main protagonists, two parallel stories unrevealing intimate details, converging somewhere in the middle ... Possible further development in sense employer being some kind of devil advocate for the employee later in the story ... Boring? Needs more Micheal Bay! (or S.M. Stirling)

FYI, I mostly published soft core IT themed handbooks, but also two dozen mostly soft sci-fi themed short and not so short stories. Only couple in English as it is not my first language, just to see if I can. This one will probably make it (hope so) into some longish form of short story.
  #32  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:41 PM
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Thinking in progress /morning dump ... shower ... toothbrush ... bing!

How about both characters are being main protagonists, two parallel stories unrevealing intimate details, converging somewhere in the middle ... Possible further development in sense employer being some kind of devil advocate for the employee later in the story ... Boring? Needs more Micheal Bay! (or S.M. Stirling)

FYI, I mostly published soft core IT themed handbooks, but also two dozen mostly soft sci-fi themed short and not so short stories. Only couple in English as it is not my first language, just to see if I can. This one will probably make it (hope so) into some longish form of short story.
We're starting to wander outside the realm of where I feel I can be useful to you - it really comes down to what story you want to tell and what (if anything) you want that story to say or what thoughts or reactions you wish it to inspire. From one writer to another, good luck!

(And seriously, if you're going to make your protagonist a former rapist, be prepared to have to work hard to make people like him, and for a percentage of your audience to never do so. There are a lot of reasons to dislike a rapist, and many of them are the sort of thing you can never trust them to have reformed from - and that's not even accounting for the fact some people don't consider the act forgivable at all.)
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