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  #51  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:41 PM
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Anyone notice that Podrick got knighted? (Someone, I think Brienne, introduced him as Ser Podrick.) And can someone list everyone who sat at the meeting in which they selected Bran as king?
The ones I recognized were Sansa, Bran, Arya, Davos, Brienne, Sam, Gendry, Edmure Tully, Robin Arryn, Yohn Royce, Yara Greyjoy, some dude clearly dressed like he came from Dorne and a couple randos.
  #52  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:41 PM
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Don't hold your breath for those books.
My theory is that Martin realized a few years ago that publishing the books before the series ended would be equivalent to what Jon did to Dany. No possible force could keep the resolution a secret. The Battle of the Spoilers would decimate entire continents. He had no choice but to delay the books until after the last episode and then use them to fill in all the context and nuance that the show lacked. He now can work on them, publishing the finale to acclaim and another few million dollars.
  #53  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:42 PM
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I was thinking they might show another white walker alive . I guess they still need the night's watch to send guys who break laws and for other reasons.
That's what Tyrion said. A place for bastards and ne'er-do-wells. But he didn't say 'ne'er-do-wells'. Someone will remember the quote better than I can.
  #54  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:42 PM
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unsullied went to Naath which is where Missandei is from , I guess to bury her
  #55  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:42 PM
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Meh.

I'm glad Jon was the one to kill Daernerys.

After 8 seasons of battling over who gets to be king, the actual decision was a 5 minute scene with an unexpected and basically unsupported ending. Ends up feeling kind of arbitrary.

The final scene with the night's watch escorting (?) the wildlings back to their home seems arbitrary and not at all the sort of powerful final scene you'd expect.

What's even the point of the Night's Watch? Were the Wildling forced to settle back north of the wall, or did they choose to? Are the Night's Watch going to treat them like hostile invaders again?

Did winter come? It's unclear. There are hints that the Night King brought the winter, to a degree, and then it snowed in King's landing, so we could have the visual of the snowy throne room from the prophecy, but then a few weeks later it looks warm again. No indication that we're in for a big continent-wide superwinter, and if we are, it's pretty dickish to force the wildlings back up north of the wall.

Bronn getting everything he wanted feels too fanservicey. In reality, he would've been murdered like 19 times by now, not given one of the most powerful kingdoms. Our favorite characters ending up on the small council, with Sam being grand maester, also feels a bit fanservicey. Although Davos and Brienne seem more plausible.

There wasn't too much to like there. The whole thing after Dany's death is very perfunctory. It ends up being like a half-hour epilogue to tell us what happened with the whole story. I feel like at the very least the epilogue could've been a whole episode, but story compression is the theme of this season.

I'm kinda glad it's over, to be honest. I didn't want it to sink much further.
  #56  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:43 PM
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Episode Title revealed:

The Iron Throne
  #57  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:44 PM
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Yes, I also half thought there would be another white walker or something (only this, time, I think the powers that be would believe)

Brian
  #58  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:44 PM
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That's what Tyrion said. A place for bastards and ne'er-do-wells. But he didn't say 'ne'er-do-wells'. Someone will remember the quote better than I can.
Bastards and third sons.
  #59  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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I don't think the Unsullied would have captured Jon, they would just have stabbed him repeatedly when they found out he killed Dany.
  #60  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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When Jon asks what about how will other people feel about her knowing the right way, and Dany says they will not get a choice, I knew it was then or never.


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the bigger one was Brienne filling in Jaime's entry in the White Book.
Indeed... you could tell, when she sees those two little paragraphs, and then she picks up the quill. She fills out his story to have it recorded with honor.


And then of course Tyrion gets told he's nowhere in the book. Maybe that was worked out with Grey Worm as his "justice".
  #61  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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the final book is going to be called a Dream of Spring (if it is written) which makes you think the ending should be in spring.
  #62  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:46 PM
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Well, that wasn't awful. But very flat and sort of... perfunctory?

I liked the shot of Dany walking out to speak to her troops and Drogon spreads his wings, and it looks for all like Dany had sprouted not just wings, but the black bat-shaped wings they used for the Devil in all sorts of old paintings.

Jon being the one to kill Dany was okay, but again, very low key.

That seems to be the theme for a lot of this season. Things that had been built up over years, with the expectations t hat they would be major events, seemed to be shut down with barely a whimper.

The Night King was an existential threat -- no, actually, it took a few hours of battle and a single dagger thrust.

Cersei was a huge baddie to overcome -- no, she basically stood there with a smirk, watching out her window, until it was time to run down into the basement and get crushed to death. And not even badly crushed, a beautiful corpse still in the arms of her still beautiful brother. A way, way too nice death, considering her crimes.

Then we had the overwhelming power of Dany, oh, no, how will we ever deal with that? Her dragon, her armies? Oh, right, the dragon will let Jon just walk by, the Unsullied will let him just walk by, the Dothraki -- well, hell, were they even around? And then Dany lets Jon walk right up to her and embrace her....and, again, the whole threat vanquished with a single dagger thrust.

I'll say again, it could have been lots worse. But it just didn't feel like a satisfactory conclusion to a saga that took eight years, you know?


P.S. Really, what's happening with the Dothraki? They showed us the Unsullied sailing off. Are we supposed to assume the Dothraki will just leave, too?
  #63  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:46 PM
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Did winter come? It's unclear. There are hints that the Night King brought the winter, to a degree, and then it snowed in King's landing, so we could have the visual of the snowy throne room from the prophecy, but then a few weeks later it looks warm again. No indication that we're in for a big continent-wide superwinter, and if we are, it's pretty dickish to force the wildlings back up north of the wall.
Ash, not snow.
  #64  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:46 PM
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Bastards and third sons.
I thought it was "bastards and broken ones".
  #65  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:46 PM
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My theory is that Martin realized a few years ago that publishing the books before the series ended would be equivalent to what Jon did to Dany. No possible force could keep the resolution a secret. The Battle of the Spoilers would decimate entire continents. He had no choice but to delay the books until after the last episode and then use them to fill in all the context and nuance that the show lacked. He now can work on them, publishing the finale to acclaim and another few million dollars.
Keep the dream.

He's better off not writing the books. The books are only going to disappoint. He doesn't know how to end his story. But... if he never finishes the books, he still has legions of fans that will say "the books will be so much better than the show! some day!"

By not writing the books, people will assume they're great. He can probably just ride that wave for the rest of his life.
  #66  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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I don't agree. I liked the ending quite a bit. I particularly liked the first shot of Dany approaching to address her troops, with the dragon right behind her, so the wings appeared to be hers. And I liked the Tolkien-esque ending with the book being presented.
That was an awesome shot! I liked the ending, too, though the episode was too slow until after Daenerys was killed. Drogon burning down the Iron Throne was kind of weird because, well, he's a dragon and what did he know about it. But I liked that Drogon took her away and let Jon be.
  #67  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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My theory is that Martin realized a few years ago that publishing the books before the series ended would be equivalent to what Jon did to Dany. No possible force could keep the resolution a secret. The Battle of the Spoilers would decimate entire continents. He had no choice but to delay the books until after the last episode and then use them to fill in all the context and nuance that the show lacked. He now can work on them, publishing the finale to acclaim and another few million dollars.
I dunno, plenty of people were still surprised by Ned, the Red Wedding, Joffrey, and Oberyn.
  #68  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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There's a massive gap in the wall. Unless Bran knows how to fix it, the best they can do is put up some fortifications and spend the rest of however long they feel like it trying to defend the weak point. That said, with that much open space and no existential threat, why would the Free Folk bother coming to slightly further south?
  #69  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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unsullied went to Naath which is where Missandei is from , I guess to bury her
There was a conversation earlier this season that the people of Naath are total pacificists and have no way of protecting themselves, and that's part of the reason they're prime slaving targets. Grey Worm told Missandei that (some of?) the Unsullied would go to settle Naath one day and be their protectors.
  #70  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:48 PM
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1. Did Jon really join the Night Watch, or did he and Tormund go further North with the wildings and that is the ending?
My thought wad that Jon was guiding the Freefolk back to repopulate the far North, as part of his NW duties
  #71  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:48 PM
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When Jon asks what about how will other people feel about her knowing the right way, and Dany says they will not get a choice, I knew it was then or never.



.
I had a "Last Jedi" moment where I thought "Holy crap are they really gonna team-up"???

I'd have been down with that twist, Jon and Dany both alive, her still doing her Purge....him at her side. WHATTATWEEST
  #72  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:48 PM
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Martin is working on the prequel series now so that takes away from his book writing time
  #73  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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With the White Walkers dead and peace made with the Wildlings, what exactly is the Night's Watch watching for?
Basically, aren't they the Federal Prison for the worst criminals in the kingdom? In which case, they watch each other to make sure none of them go back down south.
  #74  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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Martin is working on the prequel series now so that takes away from his book writing time
He is? Link?
  #75  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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I don't think the Unsullied would have captured Jon, they would just have stabbed him repeatedly when they found out he killed Dany.
I agree. I didn't think he would make it to the end alive. I think it might have been better if he went out with her. Oh well.
  #76  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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Not the ending I would have thought but was happy that it was not Battlestar Galactica level stupid. I like to think that Jon has no intention of reforming the nights watch, but becomes the new mance rayder. I would say that Bronn is the true winner in the whole series, getting a castle and a position that he had no business even thinking about.
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  #77  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:51 PM
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And can someone list everyone who sat at the meeting in which they selected Bran as king?
Seconded. I identified all but three. The (unnamed?) Prince of Dorne was obvious from his clothing. The guy next to Yara, the guy next to Robyn and Royce, the man on Gendry's left (where Davos is on the right). Though I suppose we could wank this as Ironborn Guy, Vale Guy, and... some other guy who hangs out with Gendry and Davos and Brienne.
  #78  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:53 PM
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There's a massive gap in the wall. Unless Bran knows how to fix it, the best they can do is put up some fortifications and spend the rest of however long they feel like it trying to defend the weak point. That said, with that much open space and no existential threat, why would the Free Folk bother coming to slightly further south?
It's not a problem that there's a gap in the wall, since there's no danger north of there.

And Drogon didn't even try to torch Jon, even though he knew that she was dead. Was that meant to imply that he recognized what Jon did was right? Or did he not torch Jon as he's a Targaryen?
  #79  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:54 PM
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He is? Link?
Targaryan history, Fire and Blood is the first volume. I guess it wasn't originally intended as a "series" but this is George Martin we're talking about here.

EDIT: I think I might've misread that comment, which seems like it was referring to a TV series. As far as I know, he isn't working directly on any of the prequel TV shows.

Last edited by Hellestal; 05-19-2019 at 09:55 PM.
  #80  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:54 PM
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I know they wanted to leave Arya on a mysterious ending, but... surely there are explorers in this world, and they've tried to see what's west of Westeros, right? And if they can't, it's probably because their ship or navigation technology is insufficient, or there's nothing there. It hardly seems like they're going to be able to solve that issue now that Arya wants to give it a go. So, what, she just tacks on to the next wannabe Christopher Columbus?

I know, probably shouldn't think much about it, but seems like a weird end for her.

The North seceding and maintaining independence, which was always a significant plot point, was literally like a 10 second decision.

The Doth'raki are apparently free to do as they wish. Some say they're still out there raping and pillaging to this day.

Other than Jon killing Dany, not much else that went down felt very right.
  #81  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:54 PM
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I would say that Bronn is the true winner in the whole series, getting a castle and a position that he had no business even thinking about.
Bronn got two properties, Highgarden and someplace else.
  #82  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:54 PM
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It's not a problem that there's a gap in the wall, since there's no danger north of there.
Which brings back the question of why keep the Night's Watch. Purely as a penal colony for people too inconvenient to execute?
  #83  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:55 PM
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There's a massive gap in the wall. Unless Bran knows how to fix it, the best they can do is put up some fortifications and spend the rest of however long they feel like it trying to defend the weak point.
Defend against what?
  #84  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:55 PM
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Martin working on prequel series

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/17/info...el-series.html
  #85  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:57 PM
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Bronn got two properties, Highgarden and someplace else.
I don't think so. They said he was lord of the Reach, which is just the area that Highgarden is. It's like Sansa being ruler of Winterfell and the North.
  #86  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:58 PM
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It's not a problem that there's a gap in the wall, since there's no danger north of there.

And Drogon didn't even try to torch Jon, even though he knew that she was dead. Was that meant to imply that he recognized what Jon did was right? Or did he not torch Jon as he's a Targaryen?
My interpretation of that was Drogon thought her obsession over this throne was stupid and he melted it down because it is a dumb petty human thing that shouldn't exist.
  #87  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:58 PM
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Anyone with better nautical knowledge have any idea what that ship was supposed to be? Anything less capable than a caravel is probably going to end up with a dead Arya and crew if they don't get lucky spotting land here and there.
  #88  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:58 PM
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I didn't understand why Jon seemed reluctant to go to The Wall. It's not like he wanted to be king of any realms, The North or otherwise. Kingsguard doesn't seem his style at all. My son postulates that he wanted to be punished and going up north wasn't any punishment at all.
  #89  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:59 PM
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Bronn got two properties, Highgarden and someplace else.
Since we saw Edmure at the big meeting, I'd guess he's repossessed Riverrun, which was the other property.
  #90  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:00 PM
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Defend against what?
Nobody watching the show knows. Why say that Jon was being sent back to the Night's Watch, instead of just being, say, exiled north of the wall?
  #91  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:00 PM
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I didn't understand why Jon seemed reluctant to go to The Wall. It's not like he wanted to be king of any realms, The North or otherwise. Kingsguard doesn't seem his style at all. My son postulates that he wanted to be punished and going up north wasn't any punishment at all.
It's a shitty all male prison in a frigid waste land and they execute you if you leave. Plus he doesn't believe in the mission anymore. Why wouldn't he hate going there?
  #92  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:00 PM
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Uggghhhhjhh.


That's the sound I made several times during this episode.

At least it's over.
  #93  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:01 PM
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nobody has mentioned how all those people that picked Brandon got to King's Landing so fast
  #94  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:03 PM
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I didn't understand why Jon seemed reluctant to go to The Wall. It's not like he wanted to be king of any realms, The North or otherwise. Kingsguard doesn't seem his style at all. My son postulates that he wanted to be punished and going up north wasn't any punishment at all.
He had to say goodbye to everyone he loved. He was depressed enough over killing Dany, losing the rest of his family had to hurt.
  #95  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:03 PM
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nobody has mentioned how all those people that picked Brandon got to King's Landing so fast
They at least handwaved that with a mention of weeks passing and Jon and Tyrion's beards getting unkempt.
  #96  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:03 PM
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nobody has mentioned how all those people that picked Brandon got to King's Landing so fast
I thought the same thing, but the dialog and beard growth made it clear that it was several weeks after Jon killed Dany.
  #97  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:03 PM
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Sam: Maybe we should let the people choose their own leader?

Group: Ha ha, dumb Sam, sit down.

Group: We choose Bran and since he can not have any heirs, when hes gone, we will let the people choose their own leader!

Sam: (son of a bitch)
  #98  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:04 PM
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nobody has mentioned how all those people that picked Brandon got to King's Landing so fast
We're explicitly told it had been weeks since the death of Daenerys, Jon's beard growth, etc. It's essentially structured like an epilogue. Most other instances of time passing are handled much more carelessly, and sometimes in a nonsensical/contradictory manner, like Cersei's pregnancy.

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Sam: Maybe we should let the people choose their own leader?

Group: Ha ha, dumb Sam, sit down.

Group: We choose Bran and since he can not have any heirs, when he’s gone, we will let the people choose their own leader!

Sam: (son of a bitch)
The contradiction you see isn't there - the lords and ladies of Westeros will choose the new king, not the common people. Same thing they're doing there that day.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 05-19-2019 at 10:04 PM.
  #99  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:05 PM
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Sam: Maybe we should let the people choose their own leader?

Group: Ha ha, dumb Sam, sit down.

Group: We choose Bran and since he can not have any heirs, when hes gone, we will let the people choose their own leader!

Sam: (son of a bitch)
Not the people, a council of nobles.
  #100  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:06 PM
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Group: We choose Bran and since he can not have any heirs, when hes gone, we will let the people choose their own leader!
No, they said that the heads of the noble families together will choose the king in the future.
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