Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:15 PM
Declan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie , Ontario
Posts: 5,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
I guess chaos was a ramp.


Also....unless Bran gets a bug up his butt...Tyrion is the real king...right?

Others have mentioned, and i agree...why would Dorne and to some extent The Iron Islands, fall in line with all this? I suppppossse on the good will of their leaders. And the general dispostion that everyone is dog tired of war.
Westeros has no federal army, and not all the houses have recovered from Robbs rebellion, Renlys rebellion, Stannis Rebellion. Bran is a safe bet, can't sire and the next king has to be by acclamation of the house of lords, so that gives everyone enough time to regenerate their power bases. Give it fifty years and it will be back to normal.
__________________
What would Bugs Bunny say
  #152  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:15 PM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Missed the too-short edit window, but credit to Biffster who posted the linked article:

In the 8.05 thread Biffster posted this heady analysis published in Scientific American of all places that posits that the "storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological".
  #153  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:16 PM
HammerJoe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 97
Geez it was bad.... plot holes galore, bad storytelling, overall just bad imo.

Disapointed how this comes to be....
  #154  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:18 PM
aurora maire's Avatar
aurora maire is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Bran literally says at one point "I'm not Lord of Winterfell, I can't be Lord of anything, anymore" or something along those lines. So without a change of heart or some sort of development it seems inconsistent to put him in that position. He's basically considered himself above politics and above interacting in the world in a normal way, then suddenly he's fine with being king. Doesn't really ring true.
When Tyrion said he was now the Lord of Winterfell, he saw Bran's expression and said "you don't want it". Bran said "I don't really want anymore". And at the meeting when asked if he wanted to be king, he said "why do you think I came here?". So he knew what was going to happen. He doesn't necessarily want it, it just is.
  #155  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:23 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by eunoia View Post
What the article doesn't go as far to venture an opinion on is why fiction that has the potential for sociological commentary attracts massive followings, and why having attracted massive viewership TV fiction then invariably shies away from any further sociological commentary and morphs into a show about emotions.
That article cited The Wire as another example, and The Wire neither attracted a massive audience nor did it shy away from social commentary or morph into a show about emotions.
  #156  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:25 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,114
For the Bran=king selection, I'm being generous in assuming that Bran made his magical powers known to the other lords at some point, otherwise I don't see their instant support making sense. Of course, if he flashed his powers to them, it could also come with a threat. Bran could know all their dirty laundry, and they'd want to remain on his good side.

But... such things are overlooked when you solve the ultimate question of the fight over the throne out of nowhere in a 5 minute scene at the end of your 8 year series.
  #157  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:27 PM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,889
BTW...apparently a Westworld Season 3 promo for 2020 aired. Hype!!
  #158  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:28 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
For the Bran=king selection, I'm being generous in assuming that Bran made his magical powers known to the other lords at some point, otherwise I don't see their instant support making sense.
Even if he had no powers at all, he's the last male Stark. Given that the Starks saved all of humanity in the battle for Winterfell, that would seem to be a natural choice. Who's a better choice; Edmure?

The fact that he can't have children makes him even more appealing to the other houses, who could conceivably get a shot at the throne next time.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-19-2019 at 11:29 PM.
  #159  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:31 PM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
Well Dorne was never really part of the Seven Kingdoms like the others were; they just pay lip service to whoever's in Kings Landing and do whatever the hell they want so doesn't make any difference. Also there's probably some economic benefits.
Dorne is most definitely a part of the Seven Kingdoms. It may have joined later than the others, but it definitely is part of the realm. (Heck Elia Martell was Rhaegar Targaryen's first wife)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
  #160  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:32 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
This is for show discussion with the show as its own entity. No book talk. Using book knowledge to guess about the ending of the show is the perfect thing to discuss in this show/book thread, not this one.

Open spoilers about the show once it begins airing on the east coast/streaming in a few hours. If you have an actual spoiler (taken from leaks from cast interviews or gossip magazines or whatever) that would be an appropriate use for a spoiler box. A few of us would prefer that if you want to talk about plot points revealed in "next week on..." promos you warn people that you'll be discussing that first. Thank you.
I think copying this from previous OPs was a mistake. This is the one show thread where book "spoilers" should be welcome, to help give book context for non-book readers.

Because there is no longer any such concept as a "spoiler" for the tv show. It's literally not possible to spoil anything.
  #161  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:33 PM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
More examples please, if you want to say "invariably". Just trying to get at what you mean here, thanks.
I have a few off the top of my head:

Mad Men: Starts off exposing the machinations of advertising agencies in an era of limited opportunity for women, and even more limited opportunity for minorities. Midway main character cries and new female characters are introduced then the series focuses on relationships. Series ends too vaguely to be satisfying, with the most pointed social commentary a faint memory.

The Americans: Starts off exposing the machinations of Russian spies embedded in a foreign country in an era of shifting of the relationship between political power and media conglomerates. Midway main characters cry, and new characters are introduced then the series focuses on relationships. Series ends too vaguely to be satisfying, with the most pointed social commentary a faint memory.

Sons of Anarchy: Starts off exposing the lifestyles of motorcycle riding rebels who manage to live by their own codes outside the law. Midway main character cries, and new characters are introduced then the series focuses on relationships. Series ends, I have no idea, I stopped watching.

Friends: Starts off exposing the machinations three male bachelors trying to survive in a modern big city in an era of limited economic opportunity for absolutely everyone. After three episodes the three main characters are given estrogen treatments and three new female characters are introduced then the series focuses on relationships for ten seasons.
  #162  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:37 PM
SenorBeef is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
Even if he had no powers at all, he's the last male Stark. Given that the Starks saved all of humanity in the battle for Winterfell, that would seem to be a natural choice. Who's a better choice; Edmure?

The fact that he can't have children makes him even more appealing to the other houses, who could conceivably get a shot at the throne next time.
Fair enough, and I guess the problem is that there's just no arguing over it or setting it up. Tyrion gives a speech, boom, everyone else is in. I guess it's just one more compressed storytelling complaint. I feel like the ultimate resolution of the story probably could've at least had an episode spent on it rather than a half hour or so.
  #163  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:38 PM
JRDelirious is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 15,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
Even if he had no powers at all, he's the last male Stark. Given that the Starks saved all of humanity in the battle for Winterfell, that would seem to be a natural choice. Who's a better choice; Edmure?

The fact that he can't have children makes him even more appealing to the other houses, who could conceivably get a shot at the throne next time.
Well Edmure tried to announce his candidacy

And hey, by the time succession comes along Bran/Tyrion will have properly statuted the elective monarchy system and maybe instituted a rotation among the houses or some such mechanism to reduce the potential for chaos. This end leaves open many possibilities.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 05-19-2019 at 11:39 PM.
  #164  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:40 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35,703
Immediate reaction it was an episode simply checking off the requirement list, absent well crafted drama or art.
__________________
*I'm experimenting with ē, ēm, and ēs as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender. (I am also contemplating the spellings /m/s, /m/s, e/em/es, Ē/Ēm/Ēs, /m/s, /m/s, E/Em/Es.)
  #165  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:41 PM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
That article cited The Wire as another example, and The Wire neither attracted a massive audience nor did it shy away from social commentary or morph into a show about emotions.
It was able to continue the social commentary because it didn't attract its audience until production ended. Networks are getting pretty good at canceling these "Second Golden Age of Television" shows more quickly now.
  #166  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:52 PM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,885
"Rule them all" like Sauron, Queen of the ashes" "He said it was made of 1000 swords", like Littlefinger. Some great scene here, but I don't see Dany speech to Jon as credible. And I find her death scene bad.

And clearly dragons can regulate the temperature of their breath from superficial burns to melting steel. And they understand symbolism.

And I don't see Yara siding with Danaerys. And Edmure the wise (with a non tit-sucking Robin), who would have expected this?...ah, uh..OK, "uncle, please seat". It would have been better without this comment, in fact. He didn't need to be ridiculed.

OK, the leak was correct. And the reason given for the choice is absurd (I hoped they could have come up with some sort of sensible reason, at least. "What unite people? A good story." What the hell????? Tyrion just convinced me that Bran should be the royal chronicler. And the wheel is broken...The king will be picked up by the magnates (and a Maester apprentice), Polish style. Wow! Such an impressive change, well worth seven years of war. And the example of the North splinting from the crown isn't at all a precedent for all the other lordship (also formerly independant). This whole scene is completely anticlimatic. And "All hail...Bran the broken. Really"???

Arya's end unsatisfying too. And not making much sense. And a kingdom ruled by fate? The council scene is anticlimatic too. And Bron and and Sam being members make it looks like a joke. Don't have the time to see the very end, but I expect to keep being disappointed. So far, only one great scene in the whole episode.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.

Last edited by clairobscur; 05-19-2019 at 11:53 PM.
  #167  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:58 PM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
And yeah, I know about The Wire because it's a masterpiece, not because I have unlimited knowledge of contemporary television shows.

But just to get back to Game of Thrones for a minute, did anyone find it telling that for all the media emphasis on how much they had to pack into the final two seasons (or final season as the showrunners described it) at "breakneck speed" that they still had time for awkward lingering pauses and even more awkward virgin deflowerings in the last three episodes?
  #168  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:03 AM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by eunoia View Post
Friends: Starts off exposing the machinations three male bachelors trying to survive in a modern big city in an era of limited economic opportunity for absolutely everyone. After three episodes the three main characters are given estrogen treatments and three new female characters are introduced then the series focuses on relationships for ten seasons.
This is not remotely accurate.
  #169  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:04 AM
squeegee's Avatar
squeegee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Aptos CA
Posts: 8,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by eunoia View Post
they still had time for awkward lingering pauses
Agree. I'll note the pale horse wandered off and Arya was still traipsing about KL this episode.
  #170  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:11 AM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
Agree. I'll note the pale horse wandered off and Arya was still traipsing about KL this episode.
Same for the Dothraki that all died at Winterfell, but came back for the battle at KL, only to never be shown or heard from again. It's like showrunners got lost in all the footage they shot to fool spoilers, and it just ended up as a long list of goofs.

It also didn't work to fool spoilers from what I'm reading now.
  #171  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:12 AM
NDP's Avatar
NDP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: PNW USA
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Best part: Sam suggesting that all people get a vote, and everyone laughing at him.
That scene seemed to be a direct shout out to a "Theodoric of York" sketch from SNL.

Quote:
Theodoric of York: Wait a minute – perhaps she’s right. Maybe the King doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth. Maybe he should be judged by his peers. Oh! A jury! A jury of his peers. Of six good men! No wait! Eight good men! No!! Ten good men!! No, that’s not enough… 18 good men!! No, that’s TOO MANY. Let’s see… 11 good men! Wait! 13 good men! No… 11, 13, 11, 13… it doesn’t matter. Okay. But everyone should be tried by a jury of their peers and be equal before the law. And perhaps, every person should be free from cruel and unusual punishment.

[ Theodoric takes a brief pause. ]
Theodoric of York: Nah!!
__________________
Can also be seen at:

Last FM Library Thing
  #172  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:14 AM
Polerius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,895
My preferred ending:

After Jon stabs Dany, the Unsullied rush in and there is an epic scene of them piling on Jon and stabbing him to death (cue epic music and Jon falling down dead)

The above causes the Northmen to attack the Unsullied, killing Grey Worm and many Unsullied.

Now leaderless, the Unsullied agree to a truce and leave Westeros.

Sansa becomes queen of the seven Kingdoms, with Tyrion as her Hand.
  #173  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:26 AM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDP View Post
That scene seemed to be a direct shout out to a "Theodoric of York" sketch from SNL.
I thought of a Monty Python scene, either a scathing critique of monarchy itself or a lampoon of progressive wackjobs. Take your pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtYU87QNjPw
  #174  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:40 AM
eunoia's Avatar
eunoia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Outside Poker Flat
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
And "All hail...Bran the broken
Better than Bran The Flaccid, admittedly not by much.
  #175  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:07 AM
nate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 911
Up until the Westeros council scene: "hey, this is pretty fucking awesome, I think they might pull this off!"

Jesus was I wrong.
  #176  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:11 AM
Biffster's Avatar
Biffster is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by eunoia View Post
Missed the too-short edit window, but credit to Biffster who posted the linked article:

In the 8.05 thread Biffster posted this heady analysis published in Scientific American of all places that posits that the "storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological".


Glad you found it informative.
  #177  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:25 AM
Sam Stone is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 28,011
Well, that was... An Ending.

Things I liked:

Dany's dragon wings. That looked cool.

Umm...

While I try and think of something else I liked, let me list the things that sucked.

Bran as King. "Hey, I've got an idea! See that kid in the wheelchair over there? The one with the unfocused stare? He should be king. He's magical. Okay, it's the magic of the old gods, which all of you have rejected for the seven, but still. KING!" He'll be a laugh at weddings and coronations and other kingly duties. I'm sure the people will love the strange kid in the wheelchair who can see what they are doing any time he wants. Also, they made it very clear in the last episodes that Bran is really not 'all there'. He's not even Bran. They gave the kingdom to a magical bird with three eyes.

Bronn as Master of Coin: You know who would make a great person to control the realm's moneyt? An amoral sellsword who keeps saying over and over again that he has no loyalty to anyone or anything, but who will murder and steal to enrich himself. Great pick, Tyrion. Oh, and does Bronn even know how to read, let alone do math? And doesn't he strike you as the type who will just love pouring over double entry accounts and dealing with merchants and craftsmen and such? What Tyrion should expect is that as soon as he has the chance, Bronn will kill whoever is guarding the gold and bugger off with it.

Jon Snow killing Daeneris: Sure. I'm okay with that. But he was allowed to walk into her presence wearing a sword and a dagger? That's not supposed to happen. And once he stabbed her, Drogon should have burned him to ash. And how in the hell is a dragon supposed to understand that the real villain is a throne made of swords? I get that an angry/sad dragon just has to burn something, and if the guy who killed your Mom won't do because he has crazy strong plot armor, you just have to take our your dragony frustrations on the nearest big metal chair, I guess.

And for sure there is no way the unsullied or the Dothraki would let Jon Snow live after that. No freaking way. They came all the way to Westeros for her, they fought the dead for her, they lost over half of their numbers for her. Then someone kills her, and they go, "Oh, I guess we should just go home then. Jon Snow, you're bad and you need to go to the wall and think about what you've done."

Then there was the whole, "Sorry, the North is independent" thing. If I were a Dornish lord, and I had just agreed to put Sansa's weird little brother on the throne because reasons, then watched her claim independence and have that weird little brother smile weirdly and nod his assent, I'd be thinking that I'd been really, really stupid. And wait until the other Dornish hear about it. "Hey, everyone! I helped pick our new king! He's this kid in a wheelchair from way up north. But he's a mystical bird or something too. No, not by our religion - he worships the old gods we rejected - which turn out to be real Gods, I guess. Unlke the Mother or the Stranger or any of the other five we worship who never do a damned thing for us... But I digress. Anyway, the North decided to be free. The King's sister demanded it, and well, you know... It's his sister. So what are you gonna do? What's that? Why didn't I declare our independence? Um, I didn't really know it was an option until Sansa pulled that stunt, and by then I figured it was too late. What are the odds of TWO kingdoms getting to go free?

Some other things I was okay with:

Brienne's ending. Totally fine. Head of the KingsGuard makes perfect sense as an end to her character arc. But since when does the head of the Kingsguard sit on the small council?

Ser Davos: Yep, he's right where he belongs. Good ending for Ser Davos.

Arya: Sure. Maybe some of you forgot, but she has declared before that her dream was to sail west and see what was out there. And Winterfell doesn't really need a trained assassin. It might have been nice, however, if they had had time to develop a bit of a relationship between her and Ser Davos, because it would have been a great scene to see her sailing away with Ser Davos as the captain of her ship. I guess I could nitpick how a world that has dragons should not really have an 'unexplored' west, unless whatever is out there is so deadly that people have stopped trying.

Jon Snow: Yeah, sure. So the first part of 'breaking the wheel' is the establishment of a Gulag in Siberia, I guess. Because according to Tyrion there's no need for a Night's Watch anymore other than as a place for exiling undesirables. Good thing it's there, then. But whatever - I figured Jon was destined for the wall at the end anyway.

That's enough for now. Let's just say the showrunners managed to nudge the pieces on the board to where they needed to go, but did so in a way that made the whole thing a giant letdown.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 05-20-2019 at 01:26 AM.
  #178  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:53 AM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
Brienne's ending. Totally fine. Head of the KingsGuard makes perfect sense as an end to her character arc. But since when does the head of the Kingsguard sit on the small council?
Since always:
Jorah: King Robert wanted her dead?
Selmy: Of course he wanted her dead. She's a Targaryen. The last Targaryen.
Jorah: I suppose no-one on the Small Council could speak sense to him?
Selmy: I didn't sit on the Small Council.
Jorah: No? Doesn't the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard traditionally...
Selmy: Traditionally, yes, but I killed a dozen of Robert's friends during his rebellion. He didn't want advice on how to govern from a man who'd fought for the Mad King. Can't say I minded much. Always hated the politics.
  #179  
Old 05-20-2019, 02:47 AM
Sam Stone is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 28,011
Hmm.. Did Jamie ever sit on the small council?
  #180  
Old 05-20-2019, 03:03 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,476
It was...fine.
__________________
Some people on TV are nice to look at.
  #181  
Old 05-20-2019, 03:18 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
"Rule them all" like Sauron, Queen of the ashes" "He said it was made of 1000 swords", like Littlefinger. Some great scene here, but I don't see Dany speech to Jon as credible. And I find her death scene bad.

And clearly dragons can regulate the temperature of their breath from superficial burns to melting steel. And they understand symbolism.

And I don't see Yara siding with Danaerys. And Edmure the wise (with a non tit-sucking Robin), who would have expected this?...ah, uh..OK, "uncle, please seat". It would have been better without this comment, in fact. He didn't need to be ridiculed.

OK, the leak was correct. And the reason given for the choice is absurd (I hoped they could have come up with some sort of sensible reason, at least. "What unite people? A good story." What the hell????? Tyrion just convinced me that Bran should be the royal chronicler. And the wheel is broken...The king will be picked up by the magnates (and a Maester apprentice), Polish style. Wow! Such an impressive change, well worth seven years of war. And the example of the North splinting from the crown isn't at all a precedent for all the other lordship (also formerly independant). This whole scene is completely anticlimatic. And "All hail...Bran the broken. Really"???

Arya's end unsatisfying too. And not making much sense. And a kingdom ruled by fate? The council scene is anticlimatic too. And Bron and and Sam being members make it looks like a joke. Don't have the time to see the very end, but I expect to keep being disappointed. So far, only one great scene in the whole episode.
Sam is the head of House Tarly.
  #182  
Old 05-20-2019, 03:38 AM
Pedro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,568
Predictably bad. There's missing the landing and then there is nose diving upside down on a different continent.

At least Daenery's "break the wheel" inclinations for mass murder were internally consistent and the only way the narrative could make sense. Just poorly executed for bullshit dramatic effect with the bells. Same with the dragon. "Jon is toast, I can't watch! Wait he missed? Oh right, he just wants to melt the throne because reasons." Noble and loyal Jon takes an extended holiday at the Wall after committing murder and treason against his heartthrob with a five second moral dilemma. "Did I do the right thing? Doesn't feel like it. Let's ride bikes and break stuff." They had to go with the hug-kiss-thud glassy eyes and stream of blood on the cheek clich too? And Dany make up your mind, is Jon a threat or a teenager's crush?

I won't even bother to deconstruct the whole conclusion because of embarassment by proxy. RoboBran as king is a joke and even the intentional humor was clunkly.
  #183  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:08 AM
nightshadea is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: a condo in hell 10th lvl
Posts: 5,356
I wonder if that redo petition is gonna have a million more names on it tomorrow......
  #184  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:19 AM
Tangent's Avatar
Tangent is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 9,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
and what other show has ever redone a season due to some fans throwing a tantrum?
Imagine this...

Game of Thrones, Season 8 Redux, Episode 1:

Fade into Jon, asleep on a bed. He awakens to the sound of running water in the next room. He follows the sound and opens a shower* door. Dany, naked and wet, turns around, smiles, and says "Good morning!"
Cue theme song.



*I know they didn't have showers in Westeros--just go with it.
  #185  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:39 AM
nate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 911
I can't get over how bad the Westeros council scene was.

Tyrion, a prisoner (as was Jon), is brought out and put in front of a mishmash of characters we've seen (and not seen) throughout the show with no rhyme or reason to why who was there and who was not.

Tyrion proceeds to declare they must appoint someone there as the King. And Grey Worm, who is holding him prisoner, nods along. WHAT? And then, because no one except Edmure has the balls to try to claim the throne, Tyrion give a big speech and says Bran, a paralyzed kid who hasn't made any decision since becoming a three-eyed raven, should be King. And everyone agrees, except for Sansa, she wants an independent kingdom. But Bran, not appointed King yet of course, nods to her, and all the other feckless lords and accessory characters approve. WTF? Can you imagine this scene in season 1 - 6? Such a disappointment.
  #186  
Old 05-20-2019, 06:37 AM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,330
It wasn't the greatest episode but I liked where all the characters ended up. All the surviving Starks ended up okay. Some thoughts:

I actually forgot to include in my prediction thread post that they would show an in universe chronicle of current events called "A Song of Ice and Fire". My only mistake was I thought Sam and Tyrion would start writing it.

Liked most of post book episodes. This felt like it was written by TV writers. The laughter when Sam suggested democracy was a very TV scene.

Yay Ghost!

I knew, and was happy to see, the North split from the South. It made political sense.

Gendry looked like he really took to being a Lord.

Bronn is still Bronn and I think he will be bored by Highgarden within three months.

It wasn't clear to me why Tyrion was allowed to lead that meeting but I am glad Grey Work didn't just kill him there.

Really not all that bad an ending.
  #187  
Old 05-20-2019, 06:52 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Sam is the head of House Tarly.
It's unclear whether he is. But in any case, the house Tarly is a vassal (of Highgarden). He's not one of the seven great lords of Westeros. But indeed I had forgotten this when I watched the show, and wondered why on Earth he felt entitled to vote (and in fact why he was there to begin with).
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.

Last edited by clairobscur; 05-20-2019 at 06:54 AM.
  #188  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:09 AM
zimaane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: washington, dc
Posts: 875
Quote:
Bronn is still Bronn and I think he will be bored by Highgarden within three months.
I get the sense he will mostly rule in absentia, spending a lot of time in KL, rebuilding the brothels

Quote:
It wasn't clear to me why Tyrion was allowed to lead that meeting but I am glad Grey Work didn't just kill him there.
If there is one constant over these 8 seasons, it is that people tell Tyrion to be quiet and he keeps talking anyway.
  #189  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:10 AM
zimaane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: washington, dc
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by clairobscur View Post
It's unclear whether he is. But in any case, the house Tarly is a vassal (of Highgarden). He's not one of the seven great lords of Westeros. But indeed I had forgotten this when I watched the show, and wondered why on Earth he felt entitled to vote (and in fact why he was there to begin with).
He was a representative of the Maesters ?
  #190  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:19 AM
Red Wiggler is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,849
When the council ridiculed Sam's suggestion that the people choose their king, I told my wife "I didn't know they were all Republicans."
  #191  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:21 AM
Fuzzy_wuzzy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by nate View Post
I can't get over how bad the Westeros council scene was.

Tyrion, a prisoner (as was Jon), is brought out and put in front of a mishmash of characters we've seen (and not seen) throughout the show with no rhyme or reason to why who was there and who was not.

Tyrion proceeds to declare they must appoint someone there as the King. And Grey Worm, who is holding him prisoner, nods along. WHAT? And then, because no one except Edmure has the balls to try to claim the throne, Tyrion give a big speech and says Bran, a paralyzed kid who hasn't made any decision since becoming a three-eyed raven, should be King. And everyone agrees, except for Sansa, she wants an independent kingdom. But Bran, not appointed King yet of course, nods to her, and all the other feckless lords and accessory characters approve. WTF? Can you imagine this scene in season 1 - 6? Such a disappointment.
I thought the reaction to Sam's call for a people's vote was disappointing too. It would have been nice if we could see the likes of Tyrion & Sansa laugh the idea off. Instead, we only saw secondary characters laugh. We simply cannot have medieval type characters we sympathize with disagree with the idea of democracy!
  #192  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:24 AM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Right before the show started, HBO ran a long promo on its new and upcoming series. They're really hoping that some of them achieve a fraction of the popularity of Game of Thrones.
That was a teaser for the third season of Westworld.
  #193  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:26 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimaane View Post
He was a representative of the Maesters ?
I believe someone addressed him as "Grand Maester."
__________________
*I'm experimenting with ē, ēm, and ēs as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender. (I am also contemplating the spellings /m/s, /m/s, e/em/es, Ē/Ēm/Ēs, /m/s, /m/s, E/Em/Es.)
  #194  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:28 AM
clairobscur is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 17,885
I see that people (here, at least) are less dissapointed by this episode than they were with the previous one. Honestly, I'm wondering why.

There was a great scene : Danaerys adressing her soldiers as the evil queen (clad in black in the middle of the ruins, with ash falling, the wings of Drogon in the background, and announcing that she intend to conquer the world and " rule them all". The other scenes, in my opinion, ranged from bad to nonsentical to laughable.

I'm perfectly fine with the fate of Danaerys, turning to the dark side and ultimately killed by John. Perfect ending for me. If only they had build the story better to bring us to this point. And her explanations wrt to her actions weren't consistent. The whole thing should have flown more naturally and make sense.

Another who doesn't make sense is Jon. He looks like a complete idiot, is on the verge of following Dany just because she's the queen, and needed a lot of convincing. Wasn't he supposed to be aleader of men with a strong moral character? He doesn't appear like this at all. Also, it's too bad that they didn't manage to depict him as deeply in love with Danaerys. He supposedly was, but it really never seemed so. If he had appeared to be torn between the horror of what Danny had done and his love for her, it would have been more dramatic. I assume that what we have been shown is supposed to be something like that, but it seemed more like "You really think that it's that bad? But, but...shouldn't we obey her anyway? Well, if you say so, maybe I should kill her. Or maybe not. Is it really right?" He seemed to have an IQ of 80, the moral sense of a turnip, and to be ready to follow whoever spoke last.

Bran becoming king. Done well, well prepared, I guess it could have been a good ending. But the way it was presented, it's the sudden crowning of one of the dullest characters of the show for no sensible reason whatsoever (because stories are really important? How does this make any sense?). As it was, it's a terrible ending


By the way, Bran seems to see the future too. And to be totally fatalist, saying to a couple people that they were exactly at the place they were supposed to be.
__________________
S'en vai la memoria, e tornara pu.
  #195  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:31 AM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_wuzzy View Post
I thought the reaction to Sam's call for a people's vote was disappointing too. It would have been nice if we could see the likes of Tyrion & Sansa laugh the idea off. Instead, we only saw secondary characters laugh. We simply cannot have medieval type characters we sympathize with disagree with the idea of democracy!
Sansa was absolutely laughing, they even focused on her.
  #196  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:46 AM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 28,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Right before the show started, HBO ran a long promo on its new and upcoming series. They're really hoping that some of them achieve a fraction of the popularity of Game of Thrones.
That was a teaser for the third season of Westworld.
That was there, but before that was a long promo for multiple series.
  #197  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:05 AM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 44,229
Amidst all the tying-up of loose threads and controversial goings-on, I could help but notice that Arya apparently has a collapsible telescope.


A TELESCOPE!


Forgive me for fixating on this, but Optics in Pop Culture is one of my interests, and the telescope seems out of place in this quasi-Medieval milieu. I hadn't recalled seeing anything like it in previous episodes. Looking into it, I find in the Wiki of Ice and Fire multiple references in the books to the "Far Eye":

Quote:
A far-eye is a telescope consisting of a bronze tube with ground glass lenses at either end. The best far-eyes come from Myr and are referred to as Myrish eyes.

Maesters Luwin and Aemon both uses far-eyes to observe the stars.[1] Aemon's is mounted on a heavy tripod.[2]

Recent Events

A Dance with Dragons

When Victarion Greyjoy captures the Myrish cog Dove, he takes its captain's Myrish eye, which was constructed out of a series of interconnected brass tubes so as to be collapsible.[3]


1. A Game of Thrones, Chapter 5, Jon I.
2. A Storm of Swords, Chapter 69, Jon IX.
3. A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 63, Victarion I.
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Far-eye


It still seems out of place because, even granting that in George R.R. Martin's mad-up world things might get invented at different times, you don't have technology like that existing in a vacuum. Nobody in the books or the TV series, for instance, has eyeglasses, or uses a magnifier, or anyone of the other precursors to telescopes we've seen in real history.



Don't tell me about supposed Medieval or Classical telescopes -- I've seen and heard the arguments, and the evidence is woefully lacking. Ancient telescopes could have been invented. But (Azeem's leather-bound telescope in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves and the fevered possibilities suggested in "The Crystal Lens" notwithstanding) there's not really any evidence for them
__________________
Who is the Calypso Singer that rides Pegasus?
Harry Bellerophonte
  #198  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:27 AM
YamatoTwinkie is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post

Jon Snow killing Daeneris: Sure. I'm okay with that. But he was allowed to walk into her presence wearing a sword and a dagger? That's not supposed to happen. And once he stabbed her, Drogon should have burned him to ash. And how in the hell is a dragon supposed to understand that the real villain is a throne made of swords? I get that an angry/sad dragon just has to burn something, and if the guy who killed your Mom won't do because he has crazy strong plot armor, you just have to take our your dragony frustrations on the nearest big metal chair, I guess.
I'm just going to fanwank that as she left Drogon guarding the entrance to the throneroom (who's getting past a dragon?), and Jon Snow passed the "worthiness" test.
  #199  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:30 AM
Fiveyearlurker is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,557
Jon Snow didn't appear to be joining the Night's Watch, but heading north with the freefolk to live as a sort of Mance Rayder character. Do, I have that right?
  #200  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:32 AM
HammerJoe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 97
Jon killing Danaerys does not make sense in any shape or form imo.

It would be so out of character and we have not seen anything extraordinary that would break a character like Jon to decide to kill "his queen'.

He is a loyal person and theres no way he would turn on her just because she razed a city... Is it me or didnt Jon also hated Kings landing for what they did to his family (The starks)?
He loved her, without any other evidence of cruelty shown by her at that point what motive would he have to kill her?

Plus he is no angel, he killed people too, did we forget when he behaded the kid back a few seasons?
Plus he knew he could control her as he wanted because she was so in love with him. Wouldnt it been better if he stayed at her side and keep her in check?

Bad bad writing, it makes no sense, and at point I lost interest in the episode and just waited for it to be over because the show jumped the shark... and it didnt disapointed... what happened after was laughable.
They ended this show being a joke. The resolution was mediocre. Extremely disapointed with it.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017