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  #51  
Old 03-19-2020, 08:41 PM
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Maybe where you live.
Check my location.

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You might think this is a lot of money. With rents and housing prices around here, it isn't.
Exactly my point. It is not going to make much of a difference to those at the top of the scale - it pretty much is throwing what is effectively pin money at folks who don't need it.

Want to up the level to $150k/year for Santa Clara county? $200k? Okay, fine. I'm not sure I agree, but I won't bitch too much. But $1 million or anything close to it? C'mon - that's absurd. Nobody who is making a million a year or anything close to it needs one or two grand for groceries or to make rent.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 03-19-2020 at 08:41 PM.
  #52  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:24 AM
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They'd claim they invented it, they'd call it "Capital Socialism" or hell, maybe drop the fig leaf and make it "National Socialism".

They'll take a page from the CCP and call it "Capitalism with Republican Characteristics". Isn't that already the crud that Trump's been pulling with things like his government bailout of the farmers he screwed with his totally unnecessary trade war?

Come to think of it, in one sense that son of a worm has been a wartime president since he took office. Of course he's been losing every war he's started.
  #53  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:06 AM
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Check my location.



Exactly my point. It is not going to make much of a difference to those at the top of the scale - it pretty much is throwing what is effectively pin money at folks who don't need it.

Want to up the level to $150k/year for Santa Clara county? $200k? Okay, fine. I'm not sure I agree, but I won't bitch too much. But $1 million or anything close to it? C'mon - that's absurd. Nobody who is making a million a year or anything close to it needs one or two grand for groceries or to make rent.
Make it $750 K, or maybe $500K, no problem. $100K, big problem.
But they should be Amazon gift cards, since there doesn't appear to be anyplace else to spend money not involving food these days.
  #54  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:05 AM
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They'll take a page from the CCP and call it "Capitalism with Republican Characteristics". Isn't that already the crud that Trump's been pulling with things like his government bailout of the farmers he screwed with his totally unnecessary trade war?
I got it... the successor to the Republicans is "The Popular Socialist Party". Trump names Bernie as his new running mate. Bernie plays ball, because he's Bernie. The new administration cuts relief checks to every state who passes a law requiring every abortion clinic to be raised to a height of 100 feet on platinum girders, and remands every undocumented person to ICE to be returned to Mexico by shooting them over the border from a cannon.

Meanwhile the National Review editorial board sits in the corner crying and wondering how they got it so right while everyone else got it so wrong.

Welcome to the reconciliation ticket from hell.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 03-20-2020 at 07:07 AM.
  #55  
Old 03-20-2020, 08:34 AM
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e scale - it pretty much is throwing what is effectively pin money at folks who don't need it.

Want to up the level to $150k/year for Santa Clara county? $200k? Okay, fine. I'm not sure I agree, but I won't bitch too much. But $1 million or anything close to it? C'mon - that's absurd. Nobody who is making a million a year or anything close to it needs one or two grand for groceries or to make rent.
Well, you may get your wish now. The Senate Republican proposal now says, "$1,200 for individuals with incomes up to $75,000, and up to an additional $500 per child."
  #56  
Old 03-20-2020, 08:44 AM
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That's a pretty low cut-off. There's not a single person I know, here in the Washington DC area, who will qualify at that low of a threshold.

Except my wife, who makes $0. But I'm guessing she doesn't count.

Yes, I realize there are plenty of folks who will qualify, even in NOVA. Good for them. But obviously this program is not targeting middle class relief for many population centers. It's geared toward the hourly workers and such.

I await the kudos from the SDMB on how the Republicans are looking out for the less fortunate and sticking it to the salaried folks.
  #57  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:09 AM
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When this kind of thing is proposed, I wish that there was a formula that was applied to make the salary cutoffs fair. Maybe the salary divided by the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in an area. One of the senators from South Dakota said that everybody would agree that $75,000 is the end of the middle class range, but as a person in Metro-Boston, I disagree. Using this calculator, I am in the bottom quarter of middle class but won't qualify for the stimulus check. In South Dakota, I would be in the upper 10 percent.

If the stimulus is meant to help tipped/hourly/etc. employees, then I am all for it. But if it is meant to help the middle class, there needs to be some refinement of the cutoffs.
  #58  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:33 AM
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I don't care so much for regional variations, and am also not sure what the income cutoff should be, but I'm against welfare cliffs for philosophical reasons, so I'm hoping that it scales down as income rises rather than just, you make $75,001, you don't get jack, but it's possible the articles just don't mention that or I missed something.
  #59  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:40 AM
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Well they keep changing it around and there are multiple proposals. But yes at least some drafts scale it down at high income with nothing received over $100k. But also scale it down for those with low tax liability.
  #60  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:41 AM
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Are people with incomes who file tax returns this year the only recipients? Where do they receive checks if they've been evicted and now live in a van or tent?
I hear a lot of complaints, but not a lot of solutions.

How would you get money to people who don't file taxes, to the homeless, and so forth? Sending checks or direct deposits through the IRS system is simply the easiest way to do it.
  #61  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:56 AM
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When this kind of thing is proposed, I wish that there was a formula that was applied to make the salary cutoffs fair. Maybe the salary divided by the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in an area. One of the senators from South Dakota said that everybody would agree that $75,000 is the end of the middle class range, but as a person in Metro-Boston, I disagree. Using this calculator, I am in the bottom quarter of middle class but won't qualify for the stimulus check. In South Dakota, I would be in the upper 10 percent.
It's been some time since I've dealt with this topic, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics maintains data on geographic salary differentials. This is not a perfect way of dealing with this problem, but it's a start.

BTW, Mr. Middon and I have decided to call the payments Yang Checks.
  #62  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:04 AM
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Server timeout dup

Last edited by Anny Middon; 03-20-2020 at 10:05 AM.
  #63  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:24 AM
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That's a pretty low cut-off. There's not a single person I know, here in the Washington DC area, who will qualify at that low of a threshold.
Of course. That's the whole, entire point. Austerity for blue states, and socialism for red states (which already get more than their fair share).
  #64  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:52 PM
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How many millions of Americans now lack bank accounts, homes, mailing addresses, and incomes?
I don't know, why don't you give us a break down?
  #65  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:03 PM
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I have no illusions this will happen, but they could set up a fund to deposit unclaimed and undeliverable checks. Use this fund to support food banks and homeless shelters.

But it will never happen.
There are many very wealthy celebrities whom could do help fund food banks. However, they chose to sing a song to lift peoples spirits.
  #66  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:13 PM
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I await the kudos from the SDMB on how the Republicans are looking out for the less fortunate and sticking it to the salaried folks.
I'm not so sure that they are. From what I've been seeing, people who were too poor to owe much federal income tax will get less, and people who were too poor to owe any -- in other words, the people who need it most -- may not get anything.

Remember the 47%?
  #67  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:17 PM
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How many millions of Americans now lack bank accounts, homes, mailing addresses, and incomes?
Many
  #68  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:54 PM
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I don't know, why don't you give us a break down?
I don't know either, which is why I asked. Have you any information to offer?
  #69  
Old 03-20-2020, 05:53 PM
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More problematic than the income cap is that non-taxpayers will get less money, with a minimum of $600 in the current GOP bill. It's causing some internal divisions so we'll see.
  #70  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:31 PM
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^^ May I just say, that straightcashhomie is the most appropriate username there could be in this thread.
  #71  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:39 PM
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It seems to me that this would make for a heckuva good incentive to fill out those census forms. And since this census was teetering on the precipice of disaster to begin with, now that they won't be able to send crews door-to-door, getting a good count will be next to impossible.

These checks could be just the ticket.
  #72  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:54 PM
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^^ May I just say, that straightcashhomie is the most appropriate username there could be in this thread.

Oh, really?
  #73  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:12 PM
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I don't know, why don't you give us a break down?
"A rhetorical question is a question you ask where you do not expect the answer, and you are rather asking to make a point."

from https://kidskonnect.com/language/rhetorical-question/
  #74  
Old 03-20-2020, 08:13 PM
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I remember getting a check then. I donít think direct deposit was as much of a thing at that time. Everyone in my office was still taking our paycheck to the bank to deposit it every 2 weeks back then.
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......It's $2,000 more than we would have gotten otherwise.
Ex-fucking-zactly.


Turns out I'm screwed. It's based on your 2018 income. In 2018, I inherited quite a lot of money from my mother, and it pushes me above the amount to get the $1,200. But that's the only year I've gained even HALF that amount. Now, I still have quite a lot of it, but you can't live on capital forever, and I'm not working (unless my background check with Amazon Flex clears). I'm certainly not making anything like it THIS year.
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  #75  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:07 PM
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Ex-fucking-zactly.


Turns out I'm screwed. It's based on your 2018 income. In 2018, I inherited quite a lot of money from my mother, and it pushes me above the amount to get the $1,200. But that's the only year I've gained even HALF that amount. Now, I still have quite a lot of it, but you can't live on capital forever, and I'm not working (unless my background check with Amazon Flex clears). I'm certainly not making anything like it THIS year.
Inheritances arent taxable?

Income from what you got from the inheritance?
  #76  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:30 PM
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Of course. That's the whole, entire point. Austerity for blue states, and socialism for red states (which already get more than their fair share).
Well, you answered Divemaster's question; Dopers can turn any GOP legislation--even if it's designed to help the less-off--into a screed.
  #77  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:15 PM
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Ex-fucking-zactly.


Turns out I'm screwed. It's based on your 2018 income. In 2018, I inherited quite a lot of money from my mother, and it pushes me above the amount to get the $1,200. But that's the only year I've gained even HALF that amount. Now, I still have quite a lot of it, but you can't live on capital forever, and I'm not working (unless my background check with Amazon Flex clears). I'm certainly not making anything like it THIS year.
Inheritance is not considered income.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips...axes/L653s0Kyn
  #78  
Old 03-21-2020, 08:47 AM
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Well, you answered Divemaster's question; Dopers can turn any GOP legislation--even if it's designed to help the less-off--into a screed.
This is your only rebuttal to my observation that this is a politically motivated package?
  #79  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:00 PM
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Well, you answered Divemaster's question; Dopers can turn any GOP legislation--even if it's designed to help the less-off--into a screed.
Various of us may look at GOP offerings and find them inadequate. Screeds ensue. Fun.
  #80  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:28 PM
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So now there are three ongoing proposals:

1. Trump administration: Send Americans two checks of $1,000 apiece.
2. Senate Republicans: Send Americans a one-time check of $1,200, plus some more for kids.
3. Senate Democrats (the most generous): Send Americans payments of $2,000, then $1,500, then $1,000, one per quarterly term.
  #81  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:17 PM
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Inheritances arent taxable?

Income from what you got from the inheritance?
Inheritances are only taxable if they are way big. Didn't you follow the death tax nonsense?

Now, once you get the inheritance, money from it like interest and dividends is taxable.
  #82  
Old 03-21-2020, 03:29 PM
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Inheritances are only taxable if they are way big. Didn't you follow the death tax nonsense?

Now, once you get the inheritance, money from it like interest and dividends is taxable.
No, they never are, but the estate may have to pay taxes.

Yes, income from the inheritance is taxable.
  #83  
Old 03-21-2020, 08:44 PM
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No, they never are, but the estate may have to pay taxes.

Yes, income from the inheritance is taxable.
The estate paying it does not mean it is not taxable - just who pays the tax.
But after you get the inheritance it is yours, and it seems odd to say that the inheritance is taxable. Income from that and all your other investments not IRAs and the like is taxable.
It's not like I keep my inheritance from my father and my wife's from her father in a different bucket.

Now, if RivkahChaya get so much investment income from the inheritance that she gets bumped, I'm not crying for her.

And you can get screwed by bumps in income. The first year I was on Medicare I paid more because I had some investment income two years before. I survived.
  #84  
Old 03-21-2020, 10:38 PM
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anyway, this is all spec, since my bet is that no one gets a dime. The Dems & the GOP wont agree.
  #85  
Old 03-21-2020, 11:50 PM
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There are a lot of misconceptions here. Inherited money from certain accounts is often taxable, such as non Roth pensions, just as they would be if cashed out by the original owner. You can sometimes avoid it by rolling into an IRA, but that's not always the case.

What is true is that any debt held by the decedent is pass through to the estate, but inheritors are not responsible for remaining debt.

This is all separate from any tax on the entire value of large estates.
  #86  
Old 03-22-2020, 12:01 AM
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I'm still thinking about a proposal from an economist I heard today on NPR: a sales tax holiday, lasting months. The Feds pay states and localities the sales tax, the buyer pays none. If you want your subsidy, spend money. Benefits everyone who spends, and gooses demand for goods, which stimulates all sizes of businesses.
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Old 03-22-2020, 12:43 AM
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I'm still thinking about a proposal from an economist I heard today on NPR: a sales tax holiday, lasting months. The Feds pay states and localities the sales tax, the buyer pays none. If you want your subsidy, spend money. Benefits everyone who spends, and gooses demand for goods, which stimulates all sizes of businesses.
Sounds good in theory but I'm not sure shoppers pay that much attention to the sales tax to begin with. They are not likely to sense this psychological boost, "My grocery bill, which would have been $77, is now only $72, go spend!"
  #88  
Old 03-22-2020, 12:53 AM
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Sounds good in theory but I'm not sure shoppers pay that much attention to the sales tax to begin with. They are not likely to sense this psychological boost, "My grocery bill, which would have been $77, is now only $72, go spend!"
Well,

a) The working poor spend all their money, so having (in my county) 8.25% more of it to spend is pretty compelling I'd say.
b) Anyone buying something more expensive, say a $500 TV, will save $41 if they buy it before the tax holiday expires, which is a reasonably compelling reason to go get one sooner than later.
c) Local businesses would get some uptake from both these cases (the poor spend 8.25% more, the less poor buy more goods than they would in the next (say) 90 days).
d) Local governments get moderate stimulus from b and c.

Again, I'm not sold on this, but it's an interesting notion.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:08 AM
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Not all states have sales tax.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:35 AM
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Not all states have sales tax.
Almost all states without state sales taxes have local (county, municipality) sales taxes. Local sales taxes can exceed state sales taxes. The only states without either state or local sales taxes are Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon. Cite, see chart on page 4 (pdf). Obviously this stimulus would need to be balanced with other stimulus measures.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:17 AM
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Yup. I live in Oregon.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:41 AM
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Well,

a) The working poor spend all their money, so having (in my county) 8.25% more of it to spend is pretty compelling I'd say.
b) Anyone buying something more expensive, say a $500 TV, will save $41 if they buy it before the tax holiday expires, which is a reasonably compelling reason to go get one sooner than later.
c) Local businesses would get some uptake from both these cases (the poor spend 8.25% more, the less poor buy more goods than they would in the next (say) 90 days).
d) Local governments get moderate stimulus from b and c.

Again, I'm not sold on this, but it's an interesting notion.
I agree with all your math. I just doubt that most American shoppers do the math.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:41 AM
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I agree with all your math. I just doubt that most American shoppers do the math.
Well, is the goal to boost consumer sentiment, or to pump money into the economy? The former seems nigh impossible in this climate, but a sales tax holiday would pump money into the economy using an existing mechanism that requires little overhead from states and localities and would put money in everyone's pocket in one way or another in a progressive fashion pretty much immediately, and boost local governments. It's not ideal (as susan points out), but the simplicity is striking.
  #94  
Old 03-22-2020, 08:47 PM
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First economic-relief bill fails in the Senate, 47-47.
  #95  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:06 PM
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I believe this is the third attempted coronavirus legislation (the first two passed), but perhaps I've lost count.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:17 PM
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Sounds good in theory but I'm not sure shoppers pay that much attention to the sales tax to begin with. They are not likely to sense this psychological boost, "My grocery bill, which would have been $77, is now only $72, go spend!"
Not exactly. But if you're really broke, and you're in the grocery trying to figure out whether you can buy x, which you could really use, but you've already got $71 worth in your cart; and you count your money and find $77 in your wallet instead of $72, that makes a difference to whether you buy x.
  #97  
Old 03-22-2020, 10:42 PM
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The payroll tax cut would have taken money from Social Security. Secondly, how do you reduce payroll tax on the thousands of workers who are being laid off? Stupid idea.
Thank you, my thought exactly. People are laid off, they arenít paying payroll taxes. They need help to keep their families afloat.
  #98  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:40 AM
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So the White House and Senate have apparently agreed on a $2 trillion bill. What are the figures on the direct payouts to Americans? I'm about to sleep, would appreciate anyone who can find the details.

Also something about injecting $6 trillion in liquidity, What's that about?
  #99  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:25 AM
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From CNN:

Quote:
Under the plan as it was being negotiated, single Americans would receive $1,200, married couples would get $2,400, and parents would see $500 for each child under age 17.
However, the payments would start to phase out for individuals with adjusted gross incomes of more than $75,000, and those making more than $99,000 would not qualify at all. The thresholds are doubled for couples.
I'm assuming this is based on gross income and not IRS adjusted income? If anyone finds an on-line calculator or table that shows the phase-down, please post a link. TIA.
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Old 03-25-2020, 11:52 AM
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CNN says don’t expect a check until May at the earliest, based on the rollout time for past stimulus checks. So much for Mnuchin’s 2 weeks.
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