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Old 03-19-2020, 05:06 PM
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This is going to bankrupt every major Landlord in the Country.


NY just banned evictions. Say they keep this ban for 3-4 months, a reasonable assumption. It typically takes 3-5 months for an eviction process normally. That would bring us to 9 months of Landlord not getting a penny on his unit. Now consider the backlog that will be at the Courts, when the rush starts when half of the Country cant afford to pay rent by month number 3. This means that your probably talking 18 months to get an eviction. How many people are going to go oh free rent for a year and a half and i dont have the money anyway and not attempt to do just that? If a third of the people decide to do this, there isnt a Landlord in the Country that could still pay his bills. The Landlords are getting stuck with the price of everyone staying home and not working and this will cause a disaster.
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Old 03-19-2020, 05:27 PM
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NJ, not NY but I have a single rental unit. The current tenant, who has not paid her rent on time since November, just let me know by text she got laid off. I'm not sure how to respond. I can work with her but if she thinks this means free rent, we will have a problem.
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Old 03-19-2020, 05:33 PM
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Its going to cause massive economic ripples. It took a decade to recover from the great recession and this will be worse.
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Old 03-19-2020, 05:59 PM
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I have already told my tenants that I won't be collecting rent for April. My tenants won't have to pay me back later, either. April is a freebie, no strings attached. If that continues into May or June, meh, whatever.

I won't even consider evicting anyone under these circumstances. There are more important things than money, IMHO.
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:04 PM
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Think of all the money they will make charging exorbitant
late fees to people who are going to get just a little behind because of this. Late fees, over draft fees, payday loans. It's all the freaking late fees that make one bad month for otherwise responsible people into a spiral toward bankruptcy.
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:06 PM
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I have already told my tenants that I won't be collecting rent for April. My tenants won't have to pay me back later, either. April is a freebie, no strings attached. If that continues into May or June, meh, whatever.

I won't even consider evicting anyone under these circumstances. There are more important things than money, IMHO.
You're one of the few good ones. My experience in dealing with most landlords has not been favorable: greedy, unwilling to make repairs, usurious, cruel and uncaring. Until recently, Portland has had a no-notice eviction law in place that allowed people to be put out on the street with zero warning, regardless of whether or not they were good tenants. Guess who lobbied for that?
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:27 PM
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When I hear people feeling sorry for landlords, three things pop into my head.
1) some landlords are families and individuals, not much different from their tenants, and many, as we’ve seen in this thread, are good people doing their best
2) many landlords are in fact large corporations that make a lot of money and missing a few months of rent is a drop in the bucket for them
3) a farmer returned home from town to see a hobo sitting in the porch with his feet on the railing. The farmer said,”get off my land.”
“Your land? How’d you get it?” responded the hobo.
“I got from my father.”
“How’d he get it?”
“From his father.”
“And how did he get it?”
“Why,” said the farmer proudly, “he fought the Indians for it.”
“Well then,” said the hobo as he got to his feet, “I’ll fight you for it.”
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:10 PM
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You're one of the few good ones. My experience in dealing with most landlords has not been favorable: greedy, unwilling to make repairs, usurious, cruel and uncaring. Until recently, Portland has had a no-notice eviction law in place that allowed people to be put out on the street with zero warning, regardless of whether or not they were good tenants. Guess who lobbied for that?
Here in Indianapolis, the city government passed some tenant reforms to protect tenants from abusive landlords. So the landlord association lobbies the state government to overturn the city measures.
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:25 PM
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Think of all the money they will make charging exorbitant
late fees to people who are going to get just a little behind because of this. Late fees, over draft fees, payday loans. It's all the freaking late fees that make one bad month for otherwise responsible people into a spiral toward bankruptcy.
I got an email from Ally Bank yesterday. They are suspending all overdraft, excess transaction, expedited shipping, and other fees. They are also deferring all home and auto loan payments.

This was a welcome change from all of the "we're concerned about your safety and are washing our counters" emails.
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:29 PM
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NY just banned evictions.
I'd like to see a cite for this. What I'm finding is, "Beginning Monday evening, eviction proceedings and pending orders will be suspended statewide until further notice as health officials work to curb the spread of COVID-19, Chief Administrative Judge Lawrence Marks wrote in the memo to court employees."

As you might guess, some renters are going to have a hard time making rent, given the impact of COVID-19.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:37 PM
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Can the OP explain to me how a ban on evictions in New York will bankrupt every major landlord in the country?
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:46 PM
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When I hear people feeling sorry for landlords, three things pop into my head.
1) some landlords are families and individuals, not much different from their tenants, and many, as we’ve seen in this thread, are good people doing their best
2) many landlords are in fact large corporations that make a lot of money and missing a few months of rent is a drop in the bucket for them
#2 buying up a huge percentage of starter homes after the housing market crashed and renting them is one of, if not the, biggest reasons younger people can't buy houses. So "screw those guys" sums up my thoughts about the plight of landlords.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:54 PM
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I have already told my tenants that I won't be collecting rent for April. My tenants won't have to pay me back later, either. April is a freebie, no strings attached. If that continues into May or June, meh, whatever.

I won't even consider evicting anyone under these circumstances. There are more important things than money, IMHO.
You are fortunate that you presumably don’t have a mortgage on the property (or have enough other sources of income to pay it). Your annual tax and insurance payment on the property must also be covered by other income.

I sincerely applaud you, but it is undeniably true that some landlords simply can’t afford to be so generous.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:00 PM
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The Landlords are getting stuck with the price of everyone staying home and not working and this will cause a disaster.
I, too, hope they aren’t turned out into the streets, penniless, with nowhere to go.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:12 PM
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#2 buying up a huge percentage of starter homes after the housing market crashed and renting them is one of, if not the, biggest reasons younger people can't buy houses. So "screw those guys" sums up my thoughts about the plight of landlords.
No argument here. Henry George had a point!
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:22 PM
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I sincerely applaud you, but it is undeniably true that some landlords simply can’t afford to be so generous.
And it is undeniabley true that if the tenents are broke and unempolyed, evicting them won't get you an more money than being generous.

However, evicting tenents will enable you to clear the property and revert to farmland. If that is an option for you.

Last edited by Melbourne; 03-19-2020 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:26 PM
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I too told my tenant that I'll be lenient, and we'll figure something out. I hope what that means is spreading April's rent out over the following few months, but maybe it means just eating it. Yes, that's money straight out of my pocket. That's money I can't use to pay for the fixed costs associated with the condo. If we're starting a deep depression, then things are going to suck for me and my tenant. That's what a depression is.

What are my choices if my tenant has no income for the next 2 months? Evict him, and hope that I can move somebody else in who isn't affected by all this? Screen prospective tenants over video chat as I give virtual tours of the place? Take my chances with random people coming over, if they're even willing to? If the alternative is that my condo sits empty, then I may as well let the person who already lives there stay on until he can start paying rent again.

Yeah, things are bad. Nobody who's being realistic ever denied that. All this, it's bad for small businesses, it's bad for restaurants, it's bad for poor people, the airlines are going bankrupt. Yep, and the alternative is not do anything and hope it's only 4 million people who die in the US?

What do we do when it's not 2 months of lock down, but 2 years?
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:38 PM
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This sort of thing is among the risks you take when you invest in real estate. In terms of the specifics (pandemic leading to emergency government measures protecting tenants who can't pay) it's pretty hard to foresee, but in general terms (not getting paid rent on time so you can pay the mortgage) it's something every landlord has to deal with eventually to a greater or lesser extent. I'm not unsympathetic; this is a scary time for everyone. But zooming out a bit: what justifies you getting to build equity on someone else's money if not shouldering the risks of things going sideways?

My husband and I are in a financial position to buy either a home for ourselves or a rental property we could use as an investment. We enjoy the convenience of an apartment in the city with lots of amenities, which we could easily walk away from if work or other circumstances took us away. But we could afford the rent on our current place plus a mortgage on another place so long as we had a tenant paying us rent. If we hit any snags, though, we could be in trouble. It galls me a little to think we could be building equity instead of flushing money down the rent portal. But then I hear from homeowners how their water heater broke or their basement flooded and it was unbelievably expensive to fix, or from landlords how their tenants destroyed things and ran off owing months of back rent, and I think, I'm not wasting money. I'm paying for the privilege of not having to deal with those things.
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:49 PM
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This sort of thing is among the risks you take when you invest in real estate. In terms of the specifics (pandemic leading to emergency government measures protecting tenants who can't pay) it's pretty hard to foresee, but in general terms (not getting paid rent on time so you can pay the mortgage) it's something every landlord has to deal with eventually to a greater or lesser extent. I'm not unsympathetic; this is a scary time for everyone. But zooming out a bit: what justifies you getting to build equity on someone else's money if not shouldering the risks of things going sideways?
That's the risk you take by renting: that you can't make the next payment and get thrown out. What justifies you (the general you) thinking you can stay for free when you are not paying? That's the risk you take when things go sideways.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:11 PM
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That's the risk you take by renting: that you can't make the next payment and get thrown out. What justifies you (the general you) thinking you can stay for free when you are not paying? That's the risk you take when things go sideways.
Under normal circumstances, sure. The tenant signs a contract, and is expected to live up to the terms of the contract, or suffer the consequences specified in the contract. Today, have some compassion.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:27 PM
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Except that people who own have a choice; they could be renters instead if they wished. Renters often have no other way to get a roof over their heads.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:34 PM
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It is rather hard for me to get worked up about major apartment chains going belly-up. If they failed to insure themselves we have bankruptcy courts to clean up the mess.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:39 PM
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Under normal circumstances, sure. The tenant signs a contract, and is expected to live up to the terms of the contract, or suffer the consequences specified in the contract. Today, have some compassion.
The landlord has to pay his mortgage. No compassion for him? They live for free, he goes into hock? Or are all landlords just rich bastards that can afford it?
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:50 AM
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Here in Canada there are similar concerns about both the landlord and the tenant. The situation was partially alleviated by federal legislation that allows anyone with a mortgage, whether a landlord or individual homeowner, to defer mortgage payments for up to six months. Not sure of all the details but I presume that the term of your mortgage would be correspondingly extended by six months. At the provincial level, no-eviction laws have similarly been passed. Besides being sensibly compassionate, it's also important because the last thing we need is homeless shelters being packed to the rafters and becoming a major source of COVID-19 spread.

At the same time the feds have considerably loosened the rules on EI (unemployment insurance) payments so that far more people now qualify.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:59 AM
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The Landlords are getting stuck with the price of everyone staying home and not working and this will cause a disaster.
Maybe the landlords should have set aside some money for a rainy day and not bought that $5 latte or splurged on avocado toast.
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:19 AM
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The landlord has to pay his mortgage. No compassion for him? They live for free, he goes into hock? Or are all landlords just rich bastards that can afford it?
A question already answered:
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I, too, hope they aren’t turned out into the streets, penniless, with nowhere to go.
This. I think we should do our best to prevent anyone from being turned out into the street in this crisis, whether they're a landlord or a renter. Equal compassion for all.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:17 AM
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NY just banned evictions. Say they keep this ban for 3-4 months, a reasonable assumption. It typically takes 3-5 months for an eviction process normally. That would bring us to 9 months of Landlord not getting a penny on his unit. Now consider the backlog that will be at the Courts, when the rush starts when half of the Country cant afford to pay rent by month number 3. This means that your probably talking 18 months to get an eviction. How many people are going to go oh free rent for a year and a half and i dont have the money anyway and not attempt to do just that? If a third of the people decide to do this, there isnt a Landlord in the Country that could still pay his bills. The Landlords are getting stuck with the price of everyone staying home and not working and this will cause a disaster.
OK, let's say they didn't ban evictions and use my rather modest apartment building as an example:

We have 20 units in this building. Two are currently vacant. Of the people in the remaining 18 exactly two have jobs right now: myself, and they guy who works in the medical testing lab. OK, so the rest of those folks now have no income. The landlord boots them out. The company now has 16 empty units in a 20 unit building and exactly 2 paying tenants. You think that couldn't also bankrupt them?

Rent relief for the tenants, mortgage relief for the landlords. I can't see any other way to make this work. Yes, it's a mess. What's the alternative?

Last edited by Broomstick; 03-20-2020 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:29 AM
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That's the risk you take by renting: that you can't make the next payment and get thrown out. What justifies you (the general you) thinking you can stay for free when you are not paying? That's the risk you take when things go sideways.
In normal times, rental properties are a contract between two parties with rewards and risks for both.

Yes, if you don't pay your rent your landlord can evict you.

When the landlord can't keep the properties up he has to refund your rent and security deposit - which is what happened a couple years ago when the building I was living in had problems that made it unlivable. The landlord, without being asked, came over and handed me a refund for the portion of the month I had paid when he could not keep up his end of the contract. None of it was his fault, but nonetheless he could not keep up his end of the bargain.

These are not normal times.

If my current landlord evicts everyone in the building currently without a job... what then? Where is the company going to find people WITH jobs to fill those units?

Unoccupied buildings deteriorate. They are also more vulnerable to looters than occupied buildings, and if you start mass evictions then there WILL be looters and squatters.

To MY mind if the two parties to the rental contract can work out a compromise for this difficult times that mind up being of benefit - or at least less harmful - to BOTH parties in the end.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:10 AM
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As the old adage goes - if you owe the bank $1,00,000 you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 the bank has a problem.
These are not ordinary times. The banks are staring down thousands of landlords with commercial mortgages that won't be able to make their payments because their tenants are unable to pay. It isn't the tenants that have the problem. The banks are the ones with the problem. Nobody wins by evicting tenants. Nobody wins by foreclosing mortgages. There are no prospective tenants waiting to take over the lease, and there are no prospective new landlords waiting to buy distressed property.
As an Canada, here in Oz there is a six month hiatus on business loans. This is probably only the start. Nobody anywhere should be considering closing down existing commercial relationships because of delinquency. It will just run up the chain and make things worse for everyone. How this is managed is going to be interesting to see. You can pretty much ignore money theory of any kind for now. For all useful purposes the money world will run with a stopped clock. The next few weeks will stop it. How it is restarted without the money world going into fits is going to be the really interesting bit.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:21 AM
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Here in Indianapolis, the city government passed some tenant reforms to protect tenants from abusive landlords. So the landlord association lobbies the state government to overturn the city measures.
In Indiana, there has been an extension on property taxes. There won't be penalties for paying them all in November. It normally is that there is a payment due in May & and payment due in Nov, but there is no movement to seize your property for non-payment of the May tax until you do not pay it as well as the Nov payment by the Nov due date; HOWEVER, there are of course, interest and late fees for not paying until Nov. The status now is that if you don't pay the full amount until Nov, there will not be late fees or interest; it is all still due in Nov, though, as of this writing.

I got a message from my landlord that non-payment of April rent will not result in an eviction. The rent will still be owed, but without the usual late fees or interest. They "will work with" tenants to collect whatever is in arrears when people are back to work. Nothing has been said about May rent.

I assume that "will work with" means that they will accept payments instead of demanding the entire amount out of your first paycheck once you are back at work.

I live in a complex where lots of people live paycheck to paycheck, but do at least have credit cards as a way of getting through a month. Pretty much everyone here has at least one steady wage earner living in the unit, and many have two. So it should be that while a ton of people are probably getting laid off, and many are having to take leave or request work-at-home options because children are off school, people who are off work are eligible for unemployment, and no one is already in arrears going into this situation.

So, not at the very bottom of trying to get by, but still below the 50th percentile. Maybe the 25th percentile. The rent exception is probably a huge help to a lot of people.

Personally, we're going to pay it on time. We decided we're going to use savings to keep up with our bills. We opened a second savings account, and divided our liquid assets (basically, all our ready cash savings) in half, and have half in one account, and half in the other. We are going to use one account to keep our checking (really, debit) account replenished when we don't have enough coming in. One we will not touch, unless we have a medical emergency, like if one of use actually catches this thing, and we have a 20% copay on an ICU stay. If we use up the savings account that is for replenishing checking, THEN we start taking advantage of the electric company not cutting people off for non-payment, and any other offers of no-interest arrears we have, like not paying the rent. We also move to credit cards. We have $20,000 available on 7 different cards put together. If we max them out, we will declare bankruptcy.

Honestly, though, if this went on long enough that we used half our savings, and maxed out our credit cards, we're talking almost 2 years from now. By that time, we will be living under a whole different paradigm, I'm sure. There probably won't be bankruptcies, collectors, and private property, landlords, and who knows what will happen with the power grid? Everyone might have some kind of manure-burning generator.

I doubt it will go on that long.
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:13 AM
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I have already told my tenants that I won't be collecting rent for April. My tenants won't have to pay me back later, either. April is a freebie, no strings attached. If that continues into May or June, meh, whatever.
That's a good idea. I haven't heard anything about lay-offs from my tenants, but one of the largest employers around here - Toyota - has announced a 2-week shutdown and rumors are flying that where I work might do the same next week. I've got enough set aside to cover a few months, so I'll do the same for April and see what May will look like.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:01 AM
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The article I linked to says that one reason for the suspension of evictions is to reduce the number of people who have to appear in court, thereby reducing social interaction.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:11 AM
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My father-in-law had several rental properties while he was still alive. Whenever a tenant would give him some sob story about not being able to pay rent he would say "you need 2 things to live, food and shelter. I provide the shelter so you better make it a priority to pay or somebody else will be providing your shelter". He would then suggest canceling the cable TV, selling their fancy car for something more affordable, basic cell phone and not a fancy smartphone, stop eating out, etc.... Gee..the tenant wasn't quite as "poor" as they thought they were if they cut out all the extras.

Either the tenant made rent or my FIL considered it their 30 day notice.

I think there are people out there who would rather live on the street than give up their smartphones.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:17 AM
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I think there are people out there who would rather live on the street than give up their smartphones.
Not me, I sold my smart phone for avocado toast.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:48 AM
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Here in Canada there are similar concerns about both the landlord and the tenant. The situation was partially alleviated by federal legislation that allows anyone with a mortgage, whether a landlord or individual homeowner, to defer mortgage payments for up to six months. Not sure of all the details but I presume that the term of your mortgage would be correspondingly extended by six months. At the provincial level, no-eviction laws have similarly been passed. Besides being sensibly compassionate, it's also important because the last thing we need is homeless shelters being packed to the rafters and becoming a major source of COVID-19 spread.
Okay. That's fair....to everyone except the company that lent the landlord money to buy the home. They go without income for six months. But, again, hey they are rich bastards so THEY can afford it.

I don't like the class warfare that is implicit in modern democracies. Sure, nobody should be made homeless by this crisis. But to say to tenants you cannot be evicted just keeps passing the harm up the next rung to the landlords and then the banks.

If there is a bailout, it should be from the government, not passed on to another private party. If I borrowed money from a bank to buy a house and then rented to a tenant, we didn't engage in some sort of feudal caste system where each has responsibilities to the next person down line.

Sure people are suffering, but it makes no sense to pass off the suffering to someone else an violates every rule of fairness and equality in a democracy.

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Maybe the landlords should have set aside some money for a rainy day and not bought that $5 latte or splurged on avocado toast.
Maybe the renters should have set aside some money for a rainy day instead of getting a new tattoo or buying another pack of smokes. If you want to play stereotypes, then we can do that.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:51 AM
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My father-in-law had several rental properties while he was still alive. Whenever a tenant would give him some sob story about not being able to pay rent he would say "you need 2 things to live, food and shelter. I provide the shelter so you better make it a priority to pay or somebody else will be providing your shelter". He would then suggest canceling the cable TV, selling their fancy car for something more affordable, basic cell phone and not a fancy smartphone, stop eating out, etc.... Gee..the tenant wasn't quite as "poor" as they thought they were if they cut out all the extras.

Either the tenant made rent or my FIL considered it their 30 day notice.

I think there are people out there who would rather live on the street than give up their smartphones.
And when he had no tenants, did he get mercy from the bank?
  #37  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
3) a farmer returned home from town to see a hobo sitting in the porch with his feet on the railing. The farmer said,”get off my land.”
“Your land? How’d you get it?” responded the hobo.
“I got from my father.”
“How’d he get it?”
“From his father.”
“And how did he get it?”
“Why,” said the farmer proudly, “he fought the Indians for it.”
“Well then,” said the hobo as he got to his feet, “I’ll fight you for it.”
That’s awesome. You’re doing your namesake proud.
  #38  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:29 AM
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When one of my uncles lived in Chicago, he owned a bunch of brownstones he used to rent. He renovated most of them so that the stories were separate units. The basement would be a studio, more or less, and the second floor would be pretty nice. If there was a third floor, it would be a one-bedroom, with a kitchen area.

A lot of the people in the studio apartments were renting dirt cheap, because they did all the yard work and outside cleaning, and if there were any common areas, cleaning of those.

When people gave him a sob story, he'd ask "How much can you pay?" and he'd bargain with them, because getting something was usually better than what it cost him to file bankruptcy. He tell them they still owed, but take what they could come up with. He had people who never paid on time, but always paid up by the middle of the month, so he just let them ride. He had people who faithfully paid on time for years, so when they had a sob story, he was a lot more inclined to listen, and to let them lapse a couple of months. He had people who were always just a little short, but were ideal tenants-- neat, never complained, made very minor repairs themselves, and no one ever complained about them. If they always seemed to be $25 short, he'd reduce their rent by $25, and see if they could meet that every month.

In other words, he didn't have an overriding principle-- he dealt with every case as it came up as sui generis.

He's sometimes a jerk in some ways, but I think he must have been a pretty good landlord.
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  #39  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
And when he had no tenants, did he get mercy from the bank?
1. Unlike most people who don't heed advice from financial advisors he had an "emergency" fund to cover times when there was no income.

2. The cost of wear and tear on property doesn't exist when nobody is living there.

3. He wouldn't be liable for unpaid utilities from his tenant 'cause if they can't afford to pay rent they are probably not paying their utilities.

4. He charged affordable rental rates, $400.00 for a 2 bedroom house as an example, so he had people who willing to pay his rates if somebody else wasn't.

5. The properties were bought and paid for before he was retired as income for when he was retired so the bank had no concern if it wasn't rented.

My point was that housing SHOULD be a priority but many people think there are more important things in life like cable TV, cigarettes, etc....
  #40  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
The landlord has to pay his mortgage. No compassion for him? They live for free, he goes into hock? Or are all landlords just rich bastards that can afford it?
Under these circumstances the landlord might not have to pay his mortgage.

I'm a tenant but keep finding myself on the side of the landlords. My rent has gone up with inflation (and so has my pay), and most of the tenants where I live are on "fixed income" that goes up with inflation. Every year they protest and waste time over the inevitable at-inflation rent increase. (It's rent-controlled. Places without rent control here can literally double your rent with three months' notice. Tenants at such places should be protesting!)

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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
NJ, not NY but I have a single rental unit. The current tenant, who has not paid her rent on time since November, just let me know by text she got laid off. I'm not sure how to respond. I can work with her but if she thinks this means free rent, we will have a problem.
Start eviction procedures immediately. You should not have waited months. You also want to get a move on, in case New Jersey makes that impossible for several more months.
  #41  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:27 AM
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Around here, there have been some requests from the government for banks to allow delays of mortgage payments, business rent breaks, allow delay of utility payments and a number of proposed government bail out programs. It sounds expensive, but reasonable under the circumstances. This is in Canada. Remains to be seen how well it’s going to work, but I don’t see local evidence for the OP.
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  #42  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:34 AM
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There are valid, public health reasons to suspend evictions for the duration of the crisis. First, as said, we want to keep people out of homeless shelters or on the street. Second, we want to limit the number of people who have to go to court.
  #43  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:40 AM
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Duplicate

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 03-20-2020 at 11:41 AM.
  #44  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
As the old adage goes - if you owe the bank $1,00,000 you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 the bank has a problem.
These are not ordinary times. The banks are staring down thousands of landlords with commercial mortgages that won't be able to make their payments because their tenants are unable to pay. It isn't the tenants that have the problem. The banks are the ones with the problem. Nobody wins by evicting tenants. Nobody wins by foreclosing mortgages. There are no prospective tenants waiting to take over the lease, and there are no prospective new landlords waiting to buy distressed property.
As an Canada, here in Oz there is a six month hiatus on business loans. This is probably only the start. Nobody anywhere should be considering closing down existing commercial relationships because of delinquency. It will just run up the chain and make things worse for everyone. How this is managed is going to be interesting to see. You can pretty much ignore money theory of any kind for now. For all useful purposes the money world will run with a stopped clock. The next few weeks will stop it. How it is restarted without the money world going into fits is going to be the really interesting bit.
This is basically what I was thinking while considering the effect on small business (since most discussion on this thread seems to be about renters and homeowners). I think like in Canada, the US will have to do something along those lines, since as you said, it’ll be so massive an issue that the rich and powerful will HAVE to deal with it proactively in SOME way, or they’re the ones who’ll be taking a bath.
  #45  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by echoreply View Post
Under normal circumstances, sure. The tenant signs a contract, and is expected to live up to the terms of the contract, or suffer the consequences specified in the contract. Today, have some compassion.
Your hypocrisy is truly incredible. Landlords need to be prepared for half their tenants to go rent-free (I'm definitely pulling that number out of my ass, but let's just say), but renters can't possibly anticipate the same?

Personally, I don't think this was reasonably foreseeable by ANYONE, and that landlords are being fucked over as much as renters. I feel sorry for ALL involved, and there's honestly no easy solution.

It's one thing to hope for free or reduced rent for April. It's another to expect months of free rent, "because that's just a risk landlords take." That's bullshit.
  #46  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kovitlac View Post
Your hypocrisy is truly incredible. Landlords need to be prepared for half their tenants to go rent-free (I'm definitely pulling that number out of my ass, but let's just say), but renters can't possibly anticipate the same?

Personally, I don't think this was reasonably foreseeable by ANYONE, and that landlords are being fucked over as much as renters. I feel sorry for ALL involved, and there's honestly no easy solution.

It's one thing to hope for free or reduced rent for April. It's another to expect months of free rent, "because that's just a risk landlords take." That's bullshit.
Where's the hypocrisy? I'm the one volunteering to be out the money. I know so many people have tantrums when they find out that some people get a break that they don't get. Tough, life isn't fair. In this case, I'm letting the burden of the financial hardship fall on the person with more ability to absorb that (me), rather than the person who can't. My unemployed tenant is going to have enough trouble affording food, if he's late on the rent for a few months, I'll survive. If I never get some of the money, I'll still survive. I do think of this as giving money to my tenant, which is not something I'd be inclined to do under normal circumstances; he's not my kid. But as I've said before, what are my options? Not rhetorical, what are they?

Do you want to get into all the reasons some people have wealth and others don't? That should probably go to GD or The Pit.

And talk of cancelling cable to pay rent. First, it's 2020, we're not talking about cable, we're talking about a <$20 month Netflix subscription. Cancelling that will barely make a dent in the $1500 rent payment. A big screen TV is $300, sure, unemployed is no time to buy one, but simply having one isn't undeserved luxury. Drop the smart phone and internet, for what? To save another $100/month but now be completely disconnected from the modern world, with no ability to apply for new jobs, take gig work, or stay connected with their former employer. If I were poor or homeless, the first thing I'd get and last thing I'd give up would be a smartphone.
  #47  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:37 PM
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The government just stepped in and is pushing for a policy that will give up to 12 months of suspended or reduced mortgage payments. Right now its just for Fannie and Freddie by they expect the entire industry to adopt them.

The money won't just disappear, I guess it gets rolled into your existing mortgage and you end up paying back the money you own down the line.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/81834...mortgage-break

Quote:
Federal regulators, through the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are ordering lenders to offer homeowners flexibility. The move covers about half of all home loans in the U.S. — those guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie. But regulators expect that the entire mortgage industry will quickly adopt a similar policy.

Under the plan, people who have suffered a loss of income can qualify to make reduced payments or be granted a complete pause in payments.

"That forbearance is up to 12 months, depending on their particular situation," says Mark Calabria, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees Fannie and Freddie.

Homeowners can't just stop paying their mortgage. "They need to contact their servicer — that is the lender that they send the check to every month," he says. "That lender will work with them to be able to work out a payment plan. Obviously, we hope to get them back on their feet as soon as possible."
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 03-20-2020 at 12:38 PM.
  #48  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by a6ka97 View Post
My point was that housing SHOULD be a priority but many people think there are more important things in life like cable TV, cigarettes, etc....
You do realize that there's a worldwide pandemic causing severe and sudden unemployment, right? And that we are discussing tenancies in that context, right? I mean, this is an entire forum dedicated to the coronavirus that you are posting in.
  #49  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by echoreply View Post
Where's the hypocrisy? I'm the one volunteering to be out the money. I know so many people have tantrums when they find out that some people get a break that they don't get. Tough, life isn't fair. In this case, I'm letting the burden of the financial hardship fall on the person with more ability to absorb that (me), rather than the person who can't. My unemployed tenant is going to have enough trouble affording food, if he's late on the rent for a few months, I'll survive. If I never get some of the money, I'll still survive. I do think of this as giving money to my tenant, which is not something I'd be inclined to do under normal circumstances; he's not my kid. But as I've said before, what are my options? Not rhetorical, what are they?

Do you want to get into all the reasons some people have wealth and others don't? That should probably go to GD or The Pit.

And talk of cancelling cable to pay rent. First, it's 2020, we're not talking about cable, we're talking about a <$20 month Netflix subscription. Cancelling that will barely make a dent in the $1500 rent payment. A big screen TV is $300, sure, unemployed is no time to buy one, but simply having one isn't undeserved luxury. Drop the smart phone and internet, for what? To save another $100/month but now be completely disconnected from the modern world, with no ability to apply for new jobs, take gig work, or stay connected with their former employer. If I were poor or homeless, the first thing I'd get and last thing I'd give up would be a smartphone.
Good for you - I'm glad that YOU feel the financial burden is one you can handle. What's hypocritical is demanding that all others be able to do the same, which is how your post comes across.
  #50  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by a6ka97 View Post
2. The cost of wear and tear on property doesn't exist when nobody is living there.
As mentioned, unoccupied units deteriorate and are targets for squatters and druggies. Visit neighborhoods of abandoned houses to see the consequences.

Quote:
My point was that housing SHOULD be a priority but many people think there are more important things in life like cable TV, cigarettes, etc....
Can you name some of those "many people"?

I've been a low-paid renter and a small-scale landlord. I know tribulations on both sides. Evictions only make sense if the tenant is destructive or easily replaced. Empty units generate no income and don't maintain themselves. If a landlord is living month-to-month, perhaps they should sell out and find work.
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