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  #151  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:15 AM
ISiddiqui is offline
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Great episode! This has felt like the most GRRM episode in YEARS. I can easily see GRRM telling the showrunners this is how the series is going to end and going into details - of course in the books Dany, Jon, Tyrion are all POV characters with internal decision making. I thought that when Dany was waiting on the wall of KL, hearing the bells, looking at the Red Keep is where GRRM would have her going through an inner dialogue before deciding to "Burn Them All". The show may have benefited from doing something of that (as they did in the previous on at the beginning of the episode).

Last edited by ISiddiqui; 05-13-2019 at 10:15 AM.
  #152  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:23 AM
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Oh, and FWIW, Book 4 (A Feast for Crows) is my second favorite book in the series, so I may disagree with how much better the show adaptations were than the books (solid job adapting them, but I still think the show seasons 1-4 were worse than the Books 1-3) .
  #153  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:31 AM
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Sorry, wrong thread...

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 05-13-2019 at 10:31 AM.
  #154  
Old 05-13-2019, 11:33 AM
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So the book series is titled "A Song of Ice and Fire". For most of the books/seasons, Ice was definitely ahead, with Winter coming and no dragons.
With the elimination of the Night King (in the show), is Fire now too powerful without Ice to balance it out?
I don't see the creation of another Night King, but can Ice be promoted (I suppose winter is still here, not sure if the NK actually impacts climate)

Brian
  #155  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:59 PM
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Wanna name your kid after a GOT character? You're not alone: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...names-n1004541
  #156  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:03 PM
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as Disney talked about before, they officially announced the Star Wars movie coming out in 2022 will be made by the 2 GOT show runners Benioff and Weiss. They are calling that the first post skywalker SW movie.
  #157  
Old 05-14-2019, 05:19 PM
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I'm just glad I'm not very emotionally invested in Star Wars, that's all I can say.
  #158  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:51 PM
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Lena Headey says goodbye to "bonkers" run as Cersei: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/14/enter...sei/index.html
  #159  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:19 AM
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Martin says he has not finished the last 2 books contrary to what a GOT actor said. He has not even started on book 7. The actor said the books were done but not released to not interfere with the show

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ame-of-thrones
  #160  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:49 PM
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So, what is West of Westeros? Is the planet a [approximate] sphere? Will Arya hit Yi Ti or whatever is the farthest east mentioned?

Brian
  #161  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:09 PM
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Arya will die in the middle of the ocean because if there's a land mass there, and their level of technology allowed trips to it, some explorer would've already discovered it.
  #162  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:23 PM
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Loved that comment that Tyrion isn't in the show's Song of Ice and Fire when he's had the most POV chapters in the real one.

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  #163  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:44 PM
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So something I realized -- Jon basically fulfilled the Prince that was Promised prophecy, but in reverse. He led the forces of the living against the night king and stabbed his lover for the greater good only after.
  #164  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:36 AM
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Obligatory "we'll probably never get the last book(s)" disclaimer, but, I'm really curious to know how GRRM will justify Bran becoming king. I don't think it made any real sense in the show for them to support him, but figure that's one of the end plot points Martin gave the showrunners.

Last edited by magnusblitz; 05-20-2019 at 12:36 AM.
  #165  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:43 PM
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I'm sure GRRM told D&D who ends up on the throne but it doesn't mean they chose the same person he will (crosses fingers, knocks wood, etc). I mean, Arya is awesome but I don't think she's going to be the one to take out the head Other, and I'm not sure that is going to be A Thing in ADOS that works like it did in-show. If Sansa does marry Harry the Heir she might have a very bad wedding night, but it's not going to be Ramsay raping her via Theon's POV. So they know things, but choose differently. "Your sister" vs "Only Cat." Fans of the show say those changes make sense in adaptations. Book purists (like myself) feel that their egos have them make choices that put their stamp on the work, and since it appears they have a very shallow grasp of the themes of the work, mess it up royally. Shock value instead of thematic value.

Do I think Jon is going to have to kill Dany? Probably. Nissa Nissa and all that. Bran on the throne? Not so much. I don't think there is going to be a throne. Not that I think Drogon is going to melt it in grief, but more metaphorically. I think it'll either dissolve into 6-8 kingdoms or be unified and ruled by a council. We didn't get pages and pages on the elections in Volantis, about TRIARCHIES for nothing. He'd have saved that for the companion material if it weren't relevant to the overall story, imo.

Sam isn't going to be Grand Maester. He hasn't even forged a link (or very few) and he's going to be caught up in that weirdo Marwyn's plans. I mean, he could end up being the last Maester standing, but he's also still a brother of the NW and while I'm sure someone could release him, it would be unusual and the whole NW would have to be dissolved for Sam to abandon it. Sweet Robin is gonna be dead dead dead. There was no Meera, who might not survive the Children, but she may. No (F)Aegon, no Arianna. And I wouldn't want Bran to win the throne because I'm not entirely sure that Bran will be Bran when he exits. What if he's just a Bloodraven puppet in a Bran suit? Jon might rejoin the NW if it exists because it's looking like he'd be Lord Commander again and be the 1000th. He can't be 997 or 998 and not have 1000 not be significant in some way. It's going to be Jon resigned to this fate, Jaime somehow surviving and continuing his redemption arc, or Jorah trying to continue his redemption and answer for his crimes, follow his father's wishes.

I could see Arya possibly sailing west because people sailing west has been mentioned several times in the companion stuff, if not in the five novels. Someone probably will be. Maybe Asha. Speaking of, the creepy things in the water never came into play (over in the Iron Islands, not Hardhome), nor ghost grass in Essos, no Iron Bank further shenanigans, no other Assassins, no trips to Valyria or Asshai... which I think will all have some appearances or meaning in the last two books.

So it was AN ending*. I'm not anywhere near satisfied, but I'm happy it wasn't worse?

*That's a Wheel of Time joke for all you non-readers. The next show/book series we could all be yelling about in a year or two.
  #166  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:52 AM
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FYI, here is a not-a-blog posting from George Martin on the ending and what comes next.
  #167  
Old 05-26-2019, 10:29 AM
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Check out the GOT making-of documentary "The Last Watch," tonight at 9pm EST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K7c0jXkaGc
  #168  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:38 AM
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The GOT character originally slated to survive the show: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/27/enter...Most+Recent%29
  #169  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:52 AM
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The more I think about the ending the more it hits me that the removal of Aegon is what completely crippled the last few seasons of the show. Starting with the pointlessness of the Dorne plotline all the way to the finale he was exactly what was missing.
  #170  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:20 PM
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First vs last table read:
https://winteriscoming.net/2019/05/2...ng-night-king/

Brian
  #171  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
The more I think about the ending the more it hits me that the removal of Aegon is what completely crippled the last few seasons of the show. Starting with the pointlessness of the Dorne plotline all the way to the finale he was exactly what was missing.
This is the meme circulating around the internet like wildfire. I just don't see how that magically fixes the problems with the story here. Adding more complexity would have required like 2-3 more seasons which simply weren't in the cards.

The Golden Company could have been omitted entirely without really changing the ending at all. Just make them Lannisters and conscripted soldiers of the Reach/Stormlands.

Hell, even Euron could have been cut out without really changing anything, that screen time could have given Dany and Jon and Tyrion and Jamie and Cersei the room to actually progress naturally to the choices they made.

To me, all the problems stem from the characters not having enough time to build up to their eventual actions organically. fAegon would have only muddied the waters more not less.
  #172  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Omniscient View Post
I just don't see how that magically fixes the problems with the story here. Adding more complexity would have required like 2-3 more seasons which simply weren't in the cards.
Two or three more seasons and more complexity are what it needed. And it does "magically" fix the problems with the story because it gives the story a chance to arrive at the ending we got logically. Daenerys fall into Mad Queen status would make a lot more sense if you stretch her isolation and paranoia over several seasons instead of two or three scenes in a couple episodes. The burning of King's Landing would make more sense if King's Landing was ruled by Aegon and loved by the people, while Dany who lost almost everything and everyone she cared about saving the world is despised and rejected. Dorne, Varys' betrayal, Dany's heel turn... all this things make SO much more sense with Aegon in the picture.

Quote:
The Golden Company could have been omitted entirely without really changing the ending at all. Just make them Lannisters and conscripted soldiers of the Reach/Stormlands.
Another plot point that would have made a lot more sense with Aegon around.

Quote:
Hell, even Euron could have been cut out without really changing anything, that screen time could have given Dany and Jon and Tyrion and Jamie and Cersei the room to actually progress naturally to the choices they made.

To me, all the problems stem from the characters not having enough time to build up to their eventual actions organically. fAegon would have only muddied the waters more not less.
If anyone needed to be cut or toned down it was Cersei, not Euron. People love Cersei but her rule makes no sense.
  #173  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
Two or three more seasons and more complexity are what it needed. And it does "magically" fix the problems with the story because it gives the story a chance to arrive at the ending we got logically. Daenerys fall into Mad Queen status would make a lot more sense if you stretch her isolation and paranoia over several seasons instead of two or three scenes in a couple episodes. The burning of King's Landing would make more sense if King's Landing was ruled by Aegon and loved by the people, while Dany who lost almost everything and everyone she cared about saving the world is despised and rejected. Dorne, Varys' betrayal, Dany's heel turn... all this things make SO much more sense with Aegon in the picture.
You understand that adding 2-3 seasons was totally nonviable, right? Setting aside all the practical concerns, you're essentially saying "re-writing the entire second half of the show" would have fixed all the problems.

I mean, sure, maybe. But that's not exactly useful here.
  #174  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:15 PM
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Well nothing we do is useful, but that is what the show needed.
  #175  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:21 PM
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I think it's safe to say that there's more than one way to skin this cat. I loved the show and would have watched 5 more seasons that included all the scope from the books. It probably would have been pretty great. But they also probably would have ended up needing to recast several of the main characters at some point, which would have been tough for people to take.

They could have certainly told a much less dumb version of this story, with all the cuts, had they just wrote it better. Having the full 10 episodes these last 2 seasons would have helped too. There's nothing inherently wrong with the plot itself, they just threw it together too damn fast.
  #176  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:53 PM
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There's a lot of interesting speculation towards the end of the final show thread about what happens next. It leads me to put forth a (hopefully) interesting theory: what if the books continue well past the ending of the series?

Suppose The Winds of Winter pretty much describes the events of the show’s final season (with much needed fleshing out). So that book ends where the show ends . . . and then it says to be concluded in A Dream Of Spring.

And then that book would tell how Bran finds and gets control of Drogon and becomes the Warg King, ruthlessly putting down rebellions and subjugating the North. Maybe Arya returns and actually gets to put her Faceless Man bit to more use. Roles for Sansa, Brienne, Tyrion and Jon Snow could easily be imagined

I always thought it a bit odd that Martin would blithely allow the ultimate ending of his magnum opus to be revealed on the show, but what if the deal was, here’s your TV ending—you guys stop there, but I’m going to go beyond that to the final ending by myself. It would be a real subversion of fantasy tropes: here’s your nice story book ending, but now let’s see how it all goes to shit. And subversion of fantasy tropes is ostensibly A Song of Ice And Fire’s raison d’etre.
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