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  #5251  
Old 11-25-2018, 07:04 AM
catflea12 is offline
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He's still President and not in prison.
  #5252  
Old 11-25-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Here is the claim I made regarding Soros, from Post #5067:



That's a very gentle claim, and one I still stand by. I do think it is "safe to say" that money from Soros has helped fund the caravan. Did I claim he wrote a check to distantly for the purposes of helping the caravan? No. Do I believe ehe did that? No. I do think that his goals about immigration and the objective of the caravan are completely in alignment. And given that he funds the causes he believes in, that it would be odd if his dollars were not going to help the caravan. Here's some info that helps support that. To save you the time, I'm not claiming it is "proof" of anything and you are, of course, free to ignore it in part or totality. But if I had to bet if funding from Soros made it's way to help the caravan, I'd take that bet. Would you take the bet not he other side? If so, why do you think it more likely than not that his dollars would not have gone to help those in the caravan?

As a side note, I do not blame Soros for funding anything he might believe in. If I have a problem with his funding here (assuming he did) it is only to the extent that he he is trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S. by assisting a swarm of individuals that anything sentient being knows will, and does, contain gang members and those not eligible for asylum.

That's all I really have to say about Soros, but I'd be curious to hear your answer to me question.
So you don't believe he directly funded the caravan, but you do think it makes sense that Soros's money made its way to the caravan. You have no supporting proof or cites, but you think Soros wants to bring down the system by importing criminals.

OK, how about this? Since you like to speculate, now try envisioning the motivations of the caravan's members. They say they're fleeing hostile conditions in their own countries. There's drug gangs, corrupt governments and police, and horrible economic conditions. The caravaners are carrying all their possessions on their backs and walking through thousands of miles of unpleasant conditions. There's weather they have no shelter from, they have little or no money to buy food, and they risk poachers who run-and-grab. They're not getting any protection from the Mexican government. On top of that, there's no guarantee they'll be able to enter the US with Trump-era paranoia fortifying the borders. Why would a select cadre of Soros-funded criminals want to enter the US via such difficult conditions?

Look at the next sentence and commit it to memory. There's much easier ways of entering the US! Where is Soros's money going? There's no evidence the caravaners are benefiting from it. At the very least, Soros's money could buy fake passports and fly them in.

Why are conservatives so willing to believe such flimsy conspiracies nowadays? They used to be the party of truth and accountability. Now they cover their own inadequacies by assuming liberal boogeymen are controlling their lives behind the scenes. We had a Republican-controlled DC for the past couple of years, and somehow their troubles are increasing. Will they ever go back to their dogma of personal responsibility?
  #5253  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Look at the next sentence and commit it to memory. There's much easier ways of entering the US!
Like being Donald Trump's in-laws?

Melania Trump’s Parents Become U.S. Citizens, Using ‘Chain Migration’ Trump Hates

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/n...-citizens.html

Quote:
President Trump has repeatedly and vehemently denounced what he calls “chain migration,” in which adult American citizens can obtain residency for their relatives.

On Thursday, his Slovenian in-laws, Viktor and Amalija Knavs, became United States citizens in a private ceremony in Manhattan by taking advantage of that same family-based immigration program.
I realize there's a limited number of slots available. As Ana Navarro put it:

Quote:
Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist and political commentator, tweeted, “I guess when it’s Melania’s Family, it’s ‘family reunification’ and should be applauded. Everybody else, it’s ‘chain migration’ and must be stopped.”
  #5254  
Old 11-25-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Why are conservatives so willing to believe such flimsy conspiracies nowadays? They used to be the party of truth and accountability. Now they cover their own inadequacies by assuming liberal boogeymen are controlling their lives behind the scenes. We had a Republican-controlled DC for the past couple of years, and somehow their troubles are increasing. Will they ever go back to their dogma of personal responsibility?
Because they pulled their own rug out from under themselves. They abandoned actual conservative principles for the fast track to populist power. Their only principle now is get elected and do our financiers' bidding.
  #5255  
Old 11-25-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
So you don't believe he directly funded the caravan, but you do think it makes sense that Soros's money made its way to the caravan. You have no supporting proof or cites, but you think Soros wants to bring down the system by importing criminals.
First, I did offer cites. I agree they are not "proof" of anything, but they are evidence. If you think the evidence weak, that is fine. But it does not mean it does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
OK, how about this? Since you like to speculate, now try envisioning the motivations of the caravan's members. They say they're fleeing hostile conditions in their own countries. There's drug gangs, corrupt governments and police, and horrible economic conditions. The caravaners are carrying all their possessions on their backs and walking through thousands of miles of unpleasant conditions. There's weather they have no shelter from, they have little or no money to buy food, and they risk poachers who run-and-grab. They're not getting any protection from the Mexican government. On top of that, there's no guarantee they'll be able to enter the US with Trump-era paranoia fortifying the borders. Why would a select cadre of Soros-funded criminals want to enter the US via such difficult conditions?
What is your point? Do you not think that the caravan members and George Soros cannot each have their own motivations? Answer: they can and do. Cold your really not figure that out on your own. Yes.

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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Look at the next sentence and commit it to memory. There's much easier ways of entering the US! Where is Soros's money going? There's no evidence the caravaners are benefiting from it. At the very least, Soros's money could buy fake passports and fly them in.
The logistics of doing so would be much, much more difficult. But perhaps that is being done, as well. And, again, you seem to grasp the difference between proof and evidence.

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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Why are conservatives so willing to believe such flimsy conspiracies nowadays? They used to be the party of truth and accountability. Now they cover their own inadequacies by assuming liberal boogeymen are controlling their lives behind the scenes. We had a Republican-controlled DC for the past couple of years, and somehow their troubles are increasing. Will they ever go back to their dogma of personal responsibility?
The only point I can see in this is your claim about flimsy conspiracies. Newsflash: the caravan exists. It is real. Here is more proof.
  #5256  
Old 11-25-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Because they pulled their own rug out from under themselves. They abandoned actual conservative principles for the fast track to populist power. Their only principle now is get elected and do our financiers' bidding.
Actually I'd say what happened is that so-called conservatives like George W. Bush and his ilk refused to uphold the laws and the sovereignty of the U.S. by being lax on illegal immigration. They joined in an unholy marriage of convenience: the Reps got to supply their business donors with an unending stream of cheap illegal labor; the Dems got to play the race card and bet that every person entering via our southern border would eventually, through an amnesty, become a D vote.
  #5257  
Old 11-25-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
Without belaboring the point, I would say that you've walked back the claim just a bit, but it's not worth arguing about. And, no, I would not take the bet that none of his dollars have made their way to the relief organizations assisting the caravan. But to say that 'giving money to a relief organization is funding the caravan' is more than a bit of a stretch, IMHO.

The Catholic Legal Immigration Network is among the groups noted by your cite that is also assisting the caravan. This Network, which has 330 programs across the country, certainly has received funding from a fair number of American Catholics. Are those good folks also trying to subvert the sovereignty of the United State? For that matter, is anybody who donates to a relief organization that gives aid to the people in the caravan trying to subvert the sovereignty of the United States?
Thank you for answering. As far religious groups like the one you mention, I think they confuse the responsibility of individuals and their organization with the responsibilities of the state. I am not of the mind that the state should allow religious beliefs to outweigh the Constitution and the rule of law. If a priest is going to break the law, I'd simply arrest him. It might go too far to say that they are trying to subvert the sovereignty of the US, but they are trying to subvert the rule of law. But I think that becomes a free speech issue. But what I was alluding to above about arresting a priest or similar has to do with harboring illegal criminals and the like.
  #5258  
Old 11-25-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
The bastard!
As I said to another poster, you seem to be confusing the goodness/badness of Soros's help with the existence of it.
  #5259  
Old 11-25-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
As far religious groups like the one you mention, I think they confuse the responsibility of individuals and their organization with the responsibilities of the state. I am not of the mind that the state should allow religious beliefs to outweigh the Constitution and the rule of law. If a priest is going to break the law, I'd simply arrest him. It might go too far to say that they are trying to subvert the sovereignty of the US, but they are trying to subvert the rule of law. But I think that becomes a free speech issue. But what I was alluding to above about arresting a priest or similar has to do with harboring illegal criminals and the like.
But that's not at all an answer to the question I asked. Earlier, you stated

Quote:
If I have a problem with his funding here (assuming he did) it is only to the extent that he he is trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S. by assisting a swarm of individuals that anything sentient being knows will, and does, contain gang members and those not eligible for asylum.
By your logic, any dollar that Soros may have given to some organization that eventually trickled down to a group that is directly assisting the caravan members with food, water, or shelter is 'trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.'

So I'll ask again, more specifically: If I make a donation to an organization that I know is aiding the people in the caravan, am I trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.?
  #5260  
Old 11-25-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
Also, he was always at least twenty over Obama's best golf score!
You know who else was an amazing golfer?: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/golf/...eader-11325632
  #5261  
Old 11-25-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Actually I'd say what happened is that so-called conservatives like George W. Bush and his ilk refused to uphold the laws and the sovereignty of the U.S. by being lax on illegal immigration. They joined in an unholy marriage of convenience: the Reps got to supply their business donors with an unending stream of cheap illegal labor; the Dems got to play the race card and bet that every person entering via our southern border would eventually, through an amnesty, become a D vote.
*hits "View post"*

Yep. Still a nutcase.

*puts magellan01 back on the list*
  #5262  
Old 11-25-2018, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
First, I did offer cites. I agree they are not "proof" of anything, but they are evidence. If you think the evidence weak, that is fine. But it does not mean it does not exist.
What, like the cite below that directs to articles in the NY Times that contain the word "caravan"? Where's the smoking gun? Why didn't you cite a specific article that offers proof the caravaners are criminals bent on destroying America? Are we supposed to do your work for you? The burden of proof is upon you. You made the claim and have failed to back it up.

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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
What is your point? Do you not think that the caravan members and George Soros cannot each have their own motivations? Answer: they can and do. Cold your really not figure that out on your own. Yes.
How do you know what their true motivations are? Can you read their minds? Do you have cites to things they wrote, said, did in the past to indicate their intentions? You are automatically assuming they're up to no good with no supporting evidence. You fail again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
The logistics of doing so would be much, much more difficult. But perhaps that is being done, as well. And, again, you seem to grasp the difference between proof and evidence.
Your typing skills don't seem up to par, but it's really you who doesn't seem to grasp the difference. Words like "perhaps" (in red above, in case you missed it) do not mean definite proof. It's just speculation. You somehow think that just because there's a small chance it could be that way, that it's definitely that way. Your logic fails. You fail again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
The only point I can see in this is your claim about flimsy conspiracies. Newsflash: the caravan exists. It is real. Here is more proof.
See above. While you're looking, show me where I said I don't believe the caravan exists. You have failed to convince me your reasons are valid. Remember, the burden of proof is upon YOU.
  #5263  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
But that's not at all an answer to the question I asked. Earlier, you stated



By your logic, any dollar that Soros may have given to some organization that eventually trickled down to a group that is directly assisting the caravan members with food, water, or shelter is 'trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.'

So I'll ask again, more specifically: If I make a donation to an organization that I know is aiding the people in the caravan, am I trying to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.?
I don't think that's necessarily the case. For someone who operates on the scale that Soros can, I'd say that is the case. Especially since he believes in open borders around the world. I do think that a person can want to help SOME of the caravan members and not be working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S. I highlight "some" because if one just wants to help those seeking asylum, I don't think that action in and of itself qualifies. But if one is advocating helping the caravan—asylum seekers and non-asylum seekers alike—then I think they are advocating for subverting the sovereignty of the U.S.

Question for you: do you think that someone working to help illegals—who are NOT seeking asylum—is working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.?
  #5264  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
I don't think that's necessarily the case. For someone who operates on the scale that Soros can, I'd say that is the case. Especially since he believes in open borders around the world. I do think that a person can want to help SOME of the caravan members and not be working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S. I highlight "some" because if one just wants to help those seeking asylum, I don't think that action in and of itself qualifies. But if one is advocating helping the caravan—asylum seekers and non-asylum seekers alike—then I think they are advocating for subverting the sovereignty of the U.S.

Question for you: do you think that someone working to help illegals—who are NOT seeking asylum—is working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.?
That just sounds absolutely nuts to me. Feeding and providing necessities to people (even people not seeking asylum) isn't "working to subvert the sovereignty" of anyone or anything.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 11-25-2018 at 09:04 PM.
  #5265  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
What, like the cite below that directs to articles in the NY Times that contain the word "caravan"? Where's the smoking gun? Why didn't you cite a specific article that offers proof the caravaners are criminals bent on destroying America? Are we supposed to do your work for you? The burden of proof is upon you. You made the claim and have failed to back it up.
I didn't cite a specific article because the sole point I was trying to provide evidence for was the existence of the caravan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
How do you know what their true motivations are? Can you read their minds? Do you have cites to things they wrote, said, did in the past to indicate their intentions? You are automatically assuming they're up to no good with no supporting evidence. You fail again.
This is not true. I'm willing to assume the best motivations for the vast majority of those in the caravan. Soros believes in open borders, and not only in the U.S., so at least part of his motivation is clear. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he ALSO would like to simple help asylum seekers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Your typing skills don't seem up to par, but it's really you who doesn't seem to grasp the difference. Words like "perhaps" (in red above, in case you missed it) do not mean definite proof. It's just speculation. You somehow think that just because there's a small chance it could be that way, that it's definitely that way. Your logic fails. You fail again.
No. You need to reread the exchange. You claimed there was "no evidence". Also, you're ignoring the "as well" at the end of that sentence.

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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
See above. While you're looking, show me where I said I don't believe the caravan exists. You have failed to convince me your reasons are valid. Remember, the burden of proof is upon YOU.
Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster. If so, my apologies and you can just ignore the point. As far as the rest, I really do not care if you are convinced or if you think my reasons are valid. I don't expect to convince anyone on the se boards of anything that is not part of liberal doctrine. But if you don't think the NYT link (which I intentionally chose) that has four headlines talking about the caravan is not proof, or at least VERY strong evidence, that the caravan exists, I'm not sure anything would convince you. Shrug.
  #5266  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:19 PM
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That just sounds absolutely nuts to me. Feeding and providing necessities to people (even people not seeking asylum) isn't "working to subvert the sovereignty" of anyone or anything.
If it's just feeding and providing necessities, I'd agree with you. If it's that and helping them enter the U.S. illegally, then I stand by it. But to be clear, I'm referring to helping those NOT seeking asylum.
  #5267  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:22 PM
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Soros believes in open borders
Provide evidence for this assertion.
  #5268  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
I don't think that's necessarily the case. For someone who operates on the scale that Soros can, I'd say that is the case. Especially since he believes in open borders around the world. I do think that a person can want to help SOME of the caravan members and not be working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S. I highlight "some" because if one just wants to help those seeking asylum, I don't think that action in and of itself qualifies. But if one is advocating helping the caravan—asylum seekers and non-asylum seekers alike—then I think they are advocating for subverting the sovereignty of the U.S.

Question for you: do you think that someone working to help illegals—who are NOT seeking asylum—is working to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.?
Of course not. If I buy a meal for a hungry person who is here illegally, in no way does that act try to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.

So if I send a donation to the group that's feeding the people in the caravan, I should stipulate that it can only be used to help asylum seekers? If I don't, and some of my money is used to feed non-asylum seekers, then I'm advocating to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.? Right.

I guess if you want to think that Soros money is funding undesirable aspects of the caravan, and he has some ulterior motive for doing so, have at it. I'm sure there are others that agree with you. I'm not one of those.
  #5269  
Old 11-25-2018, 10:11 PM
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So if I send a donation to the group that's feeding the people in the caravan, I should stipulate that it can only be used to help asylum seekers? If I don't, and some of my money is used to feed non-asylum seekers, then I'm advocating to subvert the sovereignty of the U.S.? Right.
By his logic, any court case that claims that a law is improper would be subverting the sovereignty of the U.S.
  #5270  
Old 11-25-2018, 10:11 PM
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Meanwhile, the efforts to build good will towards other countries continues:

White House turns away foreign students on tour with class

Quote:
After making it through an initial checkpoint, Secret Service agents stopped three Henry Hudson students who didn’t have their passports or other identification required for non-US citizens.

“They are here on visas, but they didn’t bring any of that stuff,” a dad said. “They didn’t have any ID on them.”

The White House “boarding pass,” similar to an airline boarding pass, is sent to visitors in advance, officials said. Among other rules, it states that “all foreign nationals … regardless of age” must present a passport, alien registration card, or US State Department-issued ID.

Henry Hudson administrators apparently did not verify that all students had the right ID before hitting the road, parents told The Post.

When the Secret Service denied entry to the three kids, Principal Lenore Kingsmore stayed outside with them, said school board member Karen Horner.
  #5271  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:59 PM
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Do US citizens of nationals have to provide some sort of ID which is only provided to US citizens or nationals, such as a passport?

I can think of several ways the policies involved would be punted moon-high in Spain, but you guys have different notions about both ID and discrimination.
  #5272  
Old 11-26-2018, 12:11 AM
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Tear gas is banned by international law. The US just committed a war crime.
  #5273  
Old 11-26-2018, 01:49 AM
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Tear gas is banned by international law. The US just committed a war crime.
What law is that?

I've used tear gas against people. I'm pretty sure I wasn't committing a war crime.
  #5274  
Old 11-26-2018, 02:07 AM
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What law is that?

I've used tear gas against people. I'm pretty sure I wasn't committing a war crime.
Article I (5) of the convention: "Each State Party undertakes not to use riot control agents as a method of warfare." Article II (9) (d) of the convention: "Law enforcement including domestic riot control purposes ...[is]... not prohibited under this convention."
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:42 AM
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I don't believe the use of tear gas is necessarily a war crime, but Trump is definitely trying to manufacture a crisis out of this, and he will almost surely escalate the situation. What an escalation looks like is anyone's guess, but we'll know soon enough.
  #5276  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:21 AM
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That’s just a goddamned joke. Using tear gas for domestic law enforcement doesn’t fall under the Law of War. Duh. Moron.

If they want to come in, they are allowed to ask nicely. If they want to climb the fence en masse, they deserve what they get.
  #5277  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:38 AM
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I have a bad feeling one of these migrants is going to do something stupid and get themselves (and unfortunately others around them) shot.
  #5278  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:44 AM
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nm

Last edited by JB99; 11-26-2018 at 06:44 AM.
  #5279  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
I didn't cite a specific article because the sole point I was trying to provide evidence for was the existence of the caravan.
Let me explain something about the scientific method. You must not consider bias as fact. You only record the characteristics you observe. You make no definite assumptions about the characteristics. You theorize the most likely reasons and support with the facts you've compiled. You develop your case through more years of study, conduct experiments, send reports to peers to review for inaccuracies, and gather more evidence to support your theory.

The only thing you've done is show evidence that there is a caravan. You think it's an established fact that Soros is funding the caravan, based on his preference to open borders. Have you ever once considered the reason Soros likes open borders is because he makes money dealing with foreign clients? How do you go from "prefers open borders" to "wants to bring down the US"? You're absolutely sure that's a fact but you've done nothing to support it. It's not a liberal vs conservative pissing contest. It's reasoning vs emotion, and you're purely on the side of emotion.

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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
This is not true. I'm willing to assume the best motivations for the vast majority of those in the caravan. Soros believes in open borders, and not only in the U.S., so at least part of his motivation is clear. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he ALSO would like to simple help asylum seekers.
You've not said as much before. We had no reason to believe you're supportive of anything Soros does, and still can't understand why you think he funds the goddamned caravan. WHERE DOES THE FUCKING MONEY GO? They're so desperate to leave the hellish nightmare of their own countries they'll risk getting gassed, shot and maimed by jumping the border. Do you think criminals who want to being down the US are going to risk that much bodily harm to themselves to enter? The 9/11 terrorists sure as hell didn't go through that.



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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
No. You need to reread the exchange. You claimed there was "no evidence". Also, you're ignoring the "as well" at the end of that sentence.
"As well"??? You seriously think "as well" settles the score? "As well" means "there's other stuff I think is out there that might be true and support my argument. I can't find it, but it's out there somewhere." Sorry, the atom bomb didn't get built out of "as well". Diseases don't get cured by "as well". Your computer doesn't operate on "as well".


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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Maybe I'm confusing you with another poster. If so, my apologies and you can just ignore the point. As far as the rest, I really do not care if you are convinced or if you think my reasons are valid. I don't expect to convince anyone on the se boards of anything that is not part of liberal doctrine. But if you don't think the NYT link (which I intentionally chose) that has four headlines talking about the caravan is not proof, or at least VERY strong evidence, that the caravan exists, I'm not sure anything would convince you. Shrug.
This has absolutely fuck-all to do with liberal doctrine. I'm speaking as a former Republican who's extremely disappointed with the simpering, fact-averse, finger-pointing conspiracy fantasists who don't have the backbone to stand up to this ignorant man baby of a president because they're afraid to lose power in Washington. You think the way to prove you're right is not to listen to anybody more educated on the subject than you. That's willful ignorance that will do you no good, limits your knowledge, prevents you from reaching your potential, and thanks to a leader of the same mindset, will ultimately destroy this country.
  #5280  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:45 AM
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Let me explain something about the scientific method. You must not consider bias as fact. You only record the characteristics you observe. You make no definite assumptions about the characteristics. You theorize the most likely reasons and support with the facts you've compiled. You develop your case through more years of study, conduct experiments, send reports to peers to review for inaccuracies, and gather more evidence to support your theory.

The only thing you've done is show evidence that there is a caravan. You think it's an established fact that Soros is funding the caravan, based on his preference to open borders. Have you ever once considered the reason Soros likes open borders is because he makes money dealing with foreign clients? How do you go from "prefers open borders" to "wants to bring down the US"? You're absolutely sure that's a fact but you've done nothing to support it. It's not a liberal vs conservative pissing contest. It's reasoning vs emotion, and you're purely on the side of emotion.


You've not said as much before. We had no reason to believe you're supportive of anything Soros does, and still can't understand why you think he funds the goddamned caravan. WHERE DOES THE FUCKING MONEY GO? They're so desperate to leave the hellish nightmare of their own countries they'll risk getting gassed, shot and maimed by jumping the border. Do you think criminals who want to being down the US are going to risk that much bodily harm to themselves to enter? The 9/11 terrorists sure as hell didn't go through that.




"As well"??? You seriously think "as well" settles the score? "As well" means "there's other stuff I think is out there that might be true and support my argument. I can't find it, but it's out there somewhere." Sorry, the atom bomb didn't get built out of "as well". Diseases don't get cured by "as well". Your computer doesn't operate on "as well".



This has absolutely fuck-all to do with liberal doctrine. I'm speaking as a former Republican who's extremely disappointed with the simpering, fact-averse, finger-pointing conspiracy fantasists who don't have the backbone to stand up to this ignorant man baby of a president because they're afraid to lose power in Washington. You think the way to prove you're right is not to listen to anybody more educated on the subject than you. That's willful ignorance that will do you no good, limits your knowledge, prevents you from reaching your potential, and thanks to a leader of the same mindset, will ultimately destroy this country.
For the love of all that's holy, is this dialogue going anywhere??

I didn't think so.
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  #5281  
Old 11-26-2018, 12:06 PM
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That’s just a goddamned joke. Using tear gas for domestic law enforcement doesn’t fall under the Law of War. Duh. Moron.

If they want to come in, they are allowed to ask nicely. If they want to climb the fence en masse, they deserve what they get.
Yeah, because all those kids and babies deserve a good blast of tear gas to keep them in line.

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it?
  #5282  
Old 11-26-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
You must not consider bias as fact.
I didn't.


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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
The only thing you've done is show evidence that there is a caravan.
As I've said, that's what I was trying to show in the exchange. Glad we're good on that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
You've not said as much before.
Incorrect. I have said that I understand the motivations of most of those on the caravan. I understand why someone might want to apply for asylum, particularly in the U.S., and I don't blame them one bit. I also understand that most of even those not seeking asylum are just trying to have a better life.


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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
"As well"??? You seriously think "as well" settles the score?
No, it means that my argument did hinge on one thing, which was your clear implication.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
This has absolutely fuck-all to do with liberal doctrine. I'm speaking as a former Republican who's extremely disappointed with the simpering, fact-averse, finger-pointing conspiracy fantasists who don't have the backbone to stand up to this ignorant man baby of a president because they're afraid to lose power in Washington. You think the way to prove you're right is not to listen to anybody more educated on the subject than you. That's willful ignorance that will do you no good, limits your knowledge, prevents you from reaching your potential, and thanks to a leader of the same mindset, will ultimately destroy this country.
Ha. Let's just say, and I'll make sure to understate this, that while we evidently share the status of being ex-Republicans, we do not share the opinion you have of your intellect or superiority.

Like it or not, Trump, while I have my problems with him, is actually trying to protect the country. Reagan was too trusting of the Democrats, and even the Republicans, in congress, when he granted the amnesty with the promise of the border being secured. Bush (and his idiot brother) was wrong on immigration. McCain, too. And although he sort-of apologized to the electorate for being so quick to support abandoning the rule of law for illegals, he was always in the Bush camp and proved it after he was no longer a presidential candidate. Romney got excoriated for suggesting that we take away benefits of being here so illegals would self-deport. (The horror! People would leave the country of their own free will!!) Trump is trying to do what EVERY president should have done: protect our borders. If you find that to not be something a Conservative or Republican president should do, I don't think you have a good grasp of those terms.
  #5283  
Old 11-26-2018, 12:47 PM
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For the love of all that's holy, is this dialogue going anywhere??

I didn't think so.
Don't read it then.
  #5284  
Old 11-26-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
I didn't.
You don't know what bias means then. You assume Soros funding a caravan full of criminals intent on undermining the US is fact. It's not. It's what you want to be fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
As I've said, that's what I was trying to show in the exchange. Glad we're good on that.
What, we agree there's a caravan. What do you think "caravan" means? A mass unit of travelers, or a mass unit of Soros-funded criminals intent on undermining the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Incorrect. I have said that I understand the motivations of most of those on the caravan. I understand why someone might want to apply for asylum, particularly in the U.S., and I don't blame them one bit. I also understand that most of even those not seeking asylum are just trying to have a better life.
Your assumption that it's a mass unit of Soros-funded criminals intent on undermining the US is what you've been riding up until now, but at least you toned down that rhetoric to some degree. We're making progress!

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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
No, it means that my argument did hinge on one thing, which was your clear implication.
Yes, because your clear implication was that it's a mass unit of Soros-funded criminals intent on undermining the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Ha. Let's just say, and I'll make sure to understate this, that while we evidently share the status of being ex-Republicans, we do not share the opinion you have of your intellect or superiority.
See, that's the fallback conservatives of today use when confronted with facts and the scientific method - this is a liberal trying to show they're smarter than me. Another assumption and NOT a fact. That's what damages your arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
Like it or not, Trump, while I have my problems with him, is actually trying to protect the country. Reagan was too trusting of the Democrats, and even the Republicans, in congress, when he granted the amnesty with the promise of the border being secured. Bush (and his idiot brother) was wrong on immigration. McCain, too. And although he sort-of apologized to the electorate for being so quick to support abandoning the rule of law for illegals, he was always in the Bush camp and proved it after he was no longer a presidential candidate. Romney got excoriated for suggesting that we take away benefits of being here so illegals would self-deport. (The horror! People would leave the country of their own free will!!) Trump is trying to do what EVERY president should have done: protect our borders. If you find that to not be something a Conservative or Republican president should do, I don't think you have a good grasp of those terms.
Fine. You don't like US laws on immigration. I'm cool with that. Just don't support it with unfounded conspiracy theories. Try linking to studies of the negative impacts of immigration. Something with ACTUAL data, not fantasy.

Last edited by Knowed Out; 11-26-2018 at 01:01 PM.
  #5285  
Old 11-26-2018, 01:01 PM
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Don't read it then.
I'm not, really. Just skimming. But wondering if you have the sense you are swaying your debating partner at all?
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  #5286  
Old 11-26-2018, 01:05 PM
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Like second marriages, the triumph of hope over experience.
  #5287  
Old 11-26-2018, 03:21 PM
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After reading this, I would bet that he pissed of Mary Barra last night. Nothing like threats from the Prez..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal
President Trump said he told General Motors Co. CEO Mary Barra that she should stop making cars in China and open a new plant in Ohio to replace the ones where the company is planning to end production.

“They better damn well open a new plant there very quickly,” Mr. Trump said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal on Monday. He said he had talked Sunday night with Ms. Barra, who discussed the company’s production cutbacks.

“I love Ohio,” Mr. Trump said. ‘I told them, ‘you’re playing around with the wrong person.’”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-says...ica-1543246232
  #5288  
Old 11-26-2018, 03:29 PM
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Forest Trump is a celebration of stupidity, and a cautionary tale of why scientists should be careful about attempting to cross breed loofah sponges and orangutan shit.
  #5289  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:16 PM
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I'm not, really. Just skimming. But wondering if you have the sense you are swaying your debating partner at all?
Read it and find out.
  #5290  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:46 PM
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During his Mississippi rally on behalf of Miss Confederacy, Trump declares that people have told him he looks like Elvis.
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  #5291  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:53 PM
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During his Mississippi rally on behalf of Miss Confederacy, Trump declares that people have told him he looks like Elvis.
Maybe he looks like Elvis looks now (or was Elvis cremated?)
  #5292  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:56 PM
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During his Mississippi rally on behalf of Miss Confederacy, Trump declares that people have told him he looks like Elvis.
You mean bloated and corpulent?
Here's hoping he leaves the planet.
  #5293  
Old 11-26-2018, 07:01 PM
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You mean bloated and corpulent?
Here's hoping he leaves the planet.
In prison. On a toilet.
  #5294  
Old 11-26-2018, 07:17 PM
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Read it and find out.
The question is now moot.
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  #5295  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:02 PM
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The question is now moot.
"But who gets the car?"

"I get the car!"

"But why?"

"The question is moot!"

(With apologies to yourself and the Rev. Jesse Jackson)
  #5296  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:19 PM
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https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/...y-comparisons/

SMH

Last edited by Buttercup Smith; 11-26-2018 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Not seeing it myself
  #5297  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:40 PM
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The President of the United States doesn't believe his own government's exhaustive, multiagency climate change report: https://www.vox.com/2018/11/26/18112...ent-2018-trump
  #5298  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:49 PM
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Trump might as well visit Byron De La Beckwith's grave.
  #5299  
Old 11-26-2018, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Tear gas is banned by international law. The US just committed a war crime.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...rder-once-mon/

Boy do we have our hands dirty!
  #5300  
Old 11-26-2018, 10:07 PM
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I will take the Washington Times as a valid cite when monkeys fly out my butt singing the Hallelujah Chorus.
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