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Old 07-12-2019, 09:45 PM
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Keep your buggy off the road


Buggies on the roads are a hazard to everyone. If Mennonites, or anyone else, want to use buggies, do it off the roads. They are too holy to use cars, but not too holy to use roads built with even more complex machines?

Resolved: no buggies the roads. Buggies cannot keep up the proper pace. Buggies do not have the proper safety features--crumple zones, airbags, seat belts, lights. Buggies are too light.

If we heard about a parent driving a child around in car that could go 5 mph, had no lights, no seat belts, no airbags, no crumple zones, we would call it negligent parenting.

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Old 07-12-2019, 09:53 PM
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I doubt we'll see many Mennonites defend their buggy use on the web.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:07 PM
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Do you think there's some other sort of road network they could use?

They pay taxes for the upkeep of those roads. They're as entitled to use the roads as anybody else.

So are people on foot. So are people on bicycles. So are people who need to move farm equipment, so that you can get something to eat. The world is not limited to people who get around in cars, nor should it be.

You want a road you don't have to share with anything but cars? Stay on the limited-access expressways.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:11 PM
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I doubt we'll see many Mennonites defend their buggy use on the web.
This literally made me laugh out loud.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:18 PM
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Do you think there's some other sort of road network they could use?

They pay taxes for the upkeep of those roads. They're as entitled to use the roads as anybody else.

So are people on foot. So are people on bicycles. So are people who need to move farm equipment, so that you can get something to eat. The world is not limited to people who get around in cars, nor should it be.

You want a road you don't have to share with anything but cars? Stay on the limited-access expressways.

Let's let people use cars without working brake lights if they pay taxes. Let's let people drive 5 mph if they want. If they pay taxes.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:23 PM
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Or...you could make sense. You have thrown out a specious position and then failed to defend it in any fashion. Why should this be met with anything but mockery?
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:25 PM
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Let's let people use cars without working brake lights if they pay taxes. Let's let people drive 5 mph if they want. If they pay taxes.
How useful are brake lights on something that only travels 5 mph?
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:45 PM
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Do you think pedestrians should be forbidden to use the roads?

They're nearly always going slower than 5 MPH, almost never have brake lights, and have even less protection than somebody in a buggy.

I guess nobody in your ideal society is allowed to go anywhere except in a car.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:51 PM
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I doubt we'll see many Mennonites defend their buggy use on the web.
Only the most conservative Mennonites would use a buggy or eschew the Internet. You're thinking Amish.

I used to live in an area with a sizable Amish population, and their buggies were not legal without an orange triangle, and most of them also had battery-powered lights on the front and back, for nighttime use.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:07 PM
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I doubt we'll see many Mennonites defend their buggy use on the web.
Insult not our rides, brother English.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:25 PM
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Only the most conservative Mennonites would use a buggy or eschew the Internet. You're thinking Amish.

I used to live in an area with a sizable Amish population, and their buggies were not legal without an orange triangle, and most of them also had battery-powered lights on the front and back, for nighttime use.
The last time I drove through Amish country here in Ontario well over a decade ago, which I did regularly to get to a friend's country cottage, the Amish buggies were exactly like that, driving on the shoulder and fully in conformance with traffic laws. The OP appears to be inventing a problem where there actually isn't one. Along the way were also some excellent cheese producers and a takeout with the best onion rings I've ever had in my life. I always looked forward to the trip. The buggies were not the least of a problem. They were actually rather picturesque, and I imagine the Amish found the cars rather annoying but patiently endured them.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:26 PM
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Only the most conservative Mennonites would use a buggy or eschew the Internet. You're thinking Amish..
There are a lot of Old Order Mennonites around here.

You're right that the term covers a lot of ground, and the more liberal branches do use cars and the net. But there's quite a large community that do use buggies and not the net.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:34 PM
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Single horses are worse. No lights, no orange triangles, dark colored horse with a rider wearing dark colors in the shadows. Can't see that until you almost hit it. No Amish, etc around here, just rich women on vacation and city people who bought a horse farm in the country.

One time on my motorcycle I was trying to pass a woman riding a horse on the other side of the dirt road, she kept yelling at me "Slow down! My horse is afraid of motorcycles! SLOW DOWN!!!"

I'm yelling "Lady, if I go any slower I'll tip over".

And maybe if your horse is afraid of motorized vehicles, you shouldn't ride it on a public road. WHY would you want to ride an easily spooked animal on a public road? Oh, because you can- AMERICA!
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:49 AM
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Where do you want to draw the line? Do you also want to ban bicycles? Citroen 2CVs? Volkswagen Buses? Fully laden dump trucks?
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:38 AM
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I wonder if the OP visited Lancaster as a tourist and got pissed off at the buggies.
I'll take them over three bicycles riding abreast any day.

Obligatory joke:

Why did the Amish girl get excommunicated?


Too Mennonite.


(stolen from Christopher Hitchens)
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:57 AM
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heh dont say the op in Indiana and be from another state .. there very protective of the Amish/Mennonite communities......
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:51 AM
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I'm sure the OP resents having to give right-of-way to pedestrians, too.

As the prior posted noted, here in Indiana we have a sizable buggy-using community, to the point there are stores like Walmart that provide buggy parking and water for the horses while the owners are inside shopping. Oddly enough, it's not mass carnage on the roads. For the buggies. A LOT of folks in cars with air bags, crumple zones, seat belts, etc. crashing and dying on the freeways where buggies aren't allowed but fatal buggy accidents are rare around here.

Motorcycles - which also do not have airbags, crumple zones, seat belts, etc. - are actually far more dangerous.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Only the most conservative Mennonites would use a buggy or eschew the Internet. You're thinking Amish.

I used to live in an area with a sizable Amish population, and their buggies were not legal without an orange triangle, and most of them also had battery-powered lights on the front and back, for nighttime use.
The family involved in the buggy accident were Mennonite.
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:56 AM
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We don't let pedestrians just walk down the road in a lane. They walk out of the flow of traffic on the shoulder. Farm equipment is necessary. A buggy is just a fucked-up personal choice. Putting a child in a buggy is scumbag behavior.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:35 AM
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We live not far from an Amish community in Smicksburg, PA. I've only had positive interactions with them. They do not proselytize their religion (whatever it is). I'll happily share the road with them, and drive with extra caution when in their community.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:56 AM
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I just saw a car accident a block from my house. Someone ran a red light, resulting in a bone crash. I don't know which car ran the red, it could have been either. I don't think there would have been a crash had they both been buggies. Ban cars, especially in cities.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:38 PM
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I doubt we'll see many Mennonites defend their buggy use on the web.
Mennonite here, and I think their buggy use is just fine.

You DO know that the vast majority of modern Mennonites are just normal people like Baptists or other conservative sects, right? I spent years in a Mennonite community, and never once rode in a buggy. I never even saw one in town. There were a handful of old orthodox Mennonites around, out of thousands of other modern Mennonites. They wore black, didn't have mirrors in their house, etc. But even in a Mennonite community they were considered very odd. We only visited them to buy produce occasionally.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:53 PM
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We don't let pedestrians just walk down the road in a lane. They walk out of the flow of traffic on the shoulder. Farm equipment is necessary. A buggy is just a fucked-up personal choice. Putting a child in a buggy is scumbag behavior.
Pedestrians can cross a road anywhere, especially on a rural road. It’s a driver’s responsibility to drive as if anything might suddenly be ahead on the road.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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Rants, particularly rants that contain a fair amount of misinformation, belong in The BBQ Pit.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:49 PM
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Now that this is in the Pit: check that join date, people! This isn't for real and/or we have another bored student on Summer Break.
  #26  
Old 07-13-2019, 01:51 PM
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Buggies on the roads are a hazard to everyone. If Mennonites, or anyone else, want to use buggies, do it off the roads.
Dumb. I used to live in the third largest Amish and Mennonite community in the U.S. (I think it has fallen to number 4 in size.) The buggies were not "a hazard to everyone." There were periodic accidents, but there are still accidents, even fatal one, all over outside their community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaOmegaMan View Post
They are too holy to use cars, but not too holy to use roads built with even more complex machines?
If you insist on ranting, at least take the time to learn some facts. They are not claiming more holiness; they choose not to get involved with the outside community for the purpose of not being led into sin. In Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Kentucky, they were there when everyone drove buggies and the world just changed around them. As soon as you agree to build parallel roads so that they can get to the store with driving on the roads, I am sure they will stay off them. There are a few such roads in more heavily populated areas and they are more than delighted to stay off the highways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaOmegaMan View Post
Resolved: no buggies the roads. Buggies cannot keep up the proper pace. Buggies do not have the proper safety features--crumple zones, airbags, seat belts, lights. Buggies are too light.
Resolved: Yankees/English do not drive their cars into buggies.

Last edited by tomndebb; 07-13-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 07-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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We don't let pedestrians just walk down the road in a lane. They walk out of the flow of traffic on the shoulder. Farm equipment is necessary. A buggy is just a fucked-up personal choice. Putting a child in a buggy is scumbag behavior.
Buggies also drive on the shoulder, or as much on the shoulder as is practical. They are as legally entitled to use a lane as any car is, when they don't fit on the shoulder. Pedestrians are also often in the road on back roads where shoulders are narrow, rough, and/or nonexistent.

And buggies are just as necessary as cars. There is, and should be, no law saying that the only legitimate way to get around is in a car. The one exception is limited access highways; and those always have another public route provided for those who don't want to use them.

Are you also going to claim that putting a child on a bicycle is scumbag behavior? How about choosing to drive a car, when that drastically increases your chances of killing somebody else's child -- why don't you think that's scumbag behavior? Cars cause huge amounts of damage to both lives and property, every day. It would make more sense to claim that driving a car is just a fucked-up personal choice.

AlphaOmegaMan, what you've got is a really bad case of thinking that you've got the One Right Way To Live, and nobody should be allowed to do anything else. That attitude, in itself, has killed more people in the history of the world than buggies ever will.
  #28  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:00 PM
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In the Pit now?
Good.
Fuck off, English.
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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I'm sure the OP resents having to give right-of-way to pedestrians, too.

As the prior posted noted, here in Indiana we have a sizable buggy-using community, to the point there are stores like Walmart that provide buggy parking and water for the horses while the owners are inside shopping. Oddly enough, it's not mass carnage on the roads. For the buggies. A LOT of folks in cars with air bags, crumple zones, seat belts, etc. crashing and dying on the freeways where buggies aren't allowed but fatal buggy accidents are rare around here.

Motorcycles - which also do not have airbags, crumple zones, seat belts, etc. - are actually far more dangerous.
One of my co-workers from that area said that she was at a grocery store with her daughter, who was about 5 years old at the time, and when they saw a group of Amish, the daughter pointed at them and said, "Look, Mommy! Pilgrims!"

Naturally, Mom was very embarrassed, but I told her that they had probably heard it before and had a good laugh on the way home.

Another time, I was eating lunch in the hospital cafeteria, and about 10 or 15 Amish, two of them women carrying babies in car seats, came in, and people were staring at them. I overheard some people at the next table wondering why the Amish would need car seats. I'll tell you: They may have hired a driver, and some people do use them in their buggies, as added protection.

Not long before I left that region, there was a semi/buggy accident that had several fatalities. The semi driver just hadn't seen them.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 07-13-2019 at 04:03 PM.
  #30  
Old 07-13-2019, 05:09 PM
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Obligatory joke:
And this one.

An Amish woman is on the road driving her horse and buggy when a police officer directs her to pull over.

The officer says, “Ma’am, you’re required to display a red caution triangle on the back of your vehicle. Yours is slanting off to the side and is about to fall off.”

The Amish woman replies, “OK I’ll tell my husband. He can fix that in about five minutes.”

The cop continues, “Also I don’t like the way your reins are wrapped around the testicles of one of your horses. We consider that animal cruelty. Tell your husband to look into that as well.”

When the woman arrives home, she tells her husband what the police officer said about the triangle.

The husband replies, “I can fix that in five minutes. Did he say anything else?”

The woman says, “Yes. He mentioned something about the emergency brake.”
  #31  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:12 PM
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Before the development of the bicycle, every mode of transport pretty much had it's own road. Canal boat. Railway. Bridle path. Foot path. Carriage way. Then the bicycle appeared. People rode the damn things everywhere. On the towpaths. On the footpaths. On the bridle paths. On the carriage ways.

And yes, there were objections. There was a strong opinion that bikes should stay on bike paths, and that where there weren't bikepaths, (that, everywhere), there shouldn't be bikes. But people adjusted to it, so when automobiles first appeared, nobody was surprised that they were driven on the carriage ways. People rode their damned bicycles on the carriage ways, why not automobiles as well?
  #32  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:39 PM
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Now that this is in the Pit: check that join date, people! This isn't for real and/or we have another bored student on Summer Break.
In case anyone else feels like responding directly to the OP, please note that after a stellar 8-day career here, he is no longer with us. Those wishing to be enlightened by further insights on the buggy issue, or on why African Americans should be responsible for their own reparations, may be able to subscribe to his newsletter.
  #33  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:28 AM
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In case anyone else feels like responding directly to the OP, please note that after a stellar 8-day career here, he is no longer with us. Those wishing to be enlightened by further insights on the buggy issue, or on why African Americans should be responsible for their own reparations, may be able to subscribe to his newsletter.
Might this guy, in fact, have been SamuelA Rev “B”?

Tripler
Just curious...
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:52 PM
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Might this guy, in fact, have been SamuelA Rev “B”?

Tripler
Just curious...
Nope, he's still suspended. We're supposed to ask a Mod about such things, anyway.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 07-14-2019 at 12:52 PM.
  #35  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:25 AM
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What's this?

clop clop-clop BANG! clop clop-clop

SPOILER:
Amish drive-by-shooting.
  #36  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:07 AM
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What's this?

clop clop-clop BANG! clop clop-clop

SPOILER:
Amish drive-by-shooting.
For some reason that brings to mind one of our unique wineries around here:
https://www.organizedcrimewinery.com/
  #37  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:23 AM
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This reminds me of one of my favorite commercials of all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5DC5cIbKUU
  #38  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:56 AM
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One time on my motorcycle I was trying to pass a woman riding a horse on the other side of the dirt road, she kept yelling at me "Slow down! My horse is afraid of motorcycles! SLOW DOWN!!!"

I'm yelling "Lady, if I go any slower I'll tip over".
Under Maine law, if someone is riding or leading an animal on a public way, and the animal is frightened, the animal handler can raise a hand in the universal "stop" signal to other vehicles, and other drivers are required to stop and allow the animal to pass. Penalties are the same as failing to stop at a stop sign.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...-Asec2055.html
  #39  
Old 07-25-2019, 08:38 PM
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There is a huge safety advantage to driving a buggy. If you've drunk too much and pass out, the horse will return back to its barn without human assistance. Let's see your fancy dancy car do that.
  #40  
Old 07-25-2019, 09:48 PM
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There is a huge safety advantage to driving a buggy. If you've drunk too much and pass out, the horse will return back to its barn without human assistance. Let's see your fancy dancy car do that.
It won't be too long before that happens.
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  #41  
Old 07-26-2019, 01:21 PM
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A buggy is just a fucked-up personal choice.
So is driving a car.
  #42  
Old 07-26-2019, 01:23 PM
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So is driving a car.
What would you suggest?
  #43  
Old 07-26-2019, 01:28 PM
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What would you suggest?
I think the sedan chair never received the attention it deserved.
  #44  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:22 PM
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nm. not getting into that debate.

Last edited by scr4; 07-26-2019 at 09:22 PM.
  #45  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:14 PM
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Awww... you can't stand things that're too old and too slow. Can't take time to brake or even downshift? Your 60+ cruising time is too valuable? May I suggest Saudi Arabia.
  #46  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:06 AM
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Seems appropriate to revive this thread with this report:

Amish & Non-Amish Residents Speak At Buggy Regulations Meeting

From Amish America (who knew?):

Quote:
Accompanied by their attorney, Amish shared their views on proposed regulations at a standing-room-only supervisors’ meeting in Washington Township (Lycoming County, PA) Monday. Township officials and other residents voiced their views as well.

At issue are 3 proposed new requirements for Amish buggies:

Horse diapers to prevent manure falling on roadways
Rubber horseshoes to prevent damage to roadways
4-inch-high numbering on all four sides of Amish vehicles (front, back, both sides) so that vehicles who violate new regulations can be identified and their owners fined
The biggest argument from the Amish was their opposition to rubber horseshoes.
  #47  
Old 08-07-2019, 04:46 PM
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I always get confused...


Mennonites, Ammonites, Trilobites. WTF
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