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  #1  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:23 PM
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Apple shutting down iTunes (?)!! Shoot me now!!


https://nypost.com/2019/05/31/apple-...itunes-report/

Please... somebody... anybody... tell me something reassuring. ITunes is very important to me and my enjoyment of life! Laugh if you want! Laugh at the guy with 3 iPod Classics. Aaaaargh!
  #2  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:31 PM
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Going forward, three new desktop apps will be unveiled — Music, TV and Podcasts — to house and manage the data. This will match the format already used on iPhones and iPads.
One of the things I dislike about Apple is their tendency to try and use the purpose of a piece of software as the name of the software.

About the only thing I use iTunes for is ripping mp3s and loading them into my iPhone and iPad, so I don't expect this to affect me much.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:36 PM
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The "shutting down" in the headline seems like hyperbole to me.

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Going forward, three new desktop apps will be unveiled — Music, TV and Podcasts — to house and manage the data.
It just sounds like they are reorganizing it into 3 apps. And surely there will be continuity with what the iTunes app does now, the app will just be called something else. I very much doubt that your iPods will be useless bricks next year.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:36 PM
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Yeah, I'm always the guy defending iTunes. Or rather saying "Well, it's always worked for me..." Since my beloved 4GB iPod Mini. iTunes has helped me organize hundreds of audiobooks, podcasts and oh yeah, some music, too.
Not sure I'll find anything that works as effortlessly. I'm assuming whatever Apple comes up with to replace it will have Issues-with-a-Capital I for a while.

Anyone have recommendations for other app(s) that'll play mp3s and AACs, and where I can make and edit playlists?

Arghhhh! I just realized, my whole phone is backed up to iTunes! Okay, iCLoud would cost $$, so looks like I'll also need alternatives for backup that I can restore an iPhone from.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:41 PM
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Arghhhh! I just realized, my whole phone is backed up to iTunes! Okay, iCLoud would cost $$, so looks like I'll also need alternatives for backup that I can restore an iPhone from.
Do you really think that Apple are planning to do away with the ability to back up your iPhone? Come on.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:19 PM
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Do you really think that Apple are planning to do away with the ability to back up your iPhone? Come on.
Not at all. I think they want me to back it up to iCloud, and since it's more than 5GB, pay for Additional Storage every month.

For years I've gotten prompts and emails suggesting I do that. So it's safe to say that's their preference. I just don't want to pay... or trust Apple with All My Stuff.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:28 PM
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Not at all. I think they want me to back it up to iCloud, and since it's more than 5GB, pay for Additional Storage every month.

For years I've gotten prompts and emails suggesting I do that. So it's safe to say that's their preference. I just don't want to pay... or trust Apple with All My Stuff.
Ok, but you're getting mad at them for something that they haven't actually indicated they plan to do yet. I think that article is a clickbait headline. It doesn't appear that they have said they plan to do away with any of the actual functionality. Just to reorganize into separate apps, so it won't be called iTunes.

Last edited by Riemann; 06-01-2019 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:41 PM
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One reason it was called iTunes in the first place was an agreement with the Beatles over "Apple" and the computer company wasn't supposed to go into the music business. IIRC, a more recent update finally got Beatles songs onto iTunes, and it looks like they don't have to use a separate brand anymore.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:31 PM
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Detest iTunes with extreme prejudice.

I know some of their design decisions were made with content producers' intellectual-property concerns in mind, but I am not going to use an application for the management of music files that hides from me the location of those same goddam music files.

Likewise for iPhoto / Photos / etc the location of my image files.

Everyone I know who uses iTunes sooner or later begins whimpering, "I queued up The Grey Album but three of the tracks don't play, it says it can't find them. I don't know where they are either, I don't know where any of my MP3 files are, iTunes doesn't tell me...".

Last edited by AHunter3; 06-01-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:37 PM
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^^I don't know anyone who has whimpered like that.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:17 PM
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I always assumed that the reason it was a bloated horrorshow of effed-uppery was that they were trying to convince people to go elsewhere. Maybe they finally realized that the True Believers would never realize what's going on so time to make it official.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:52 PM
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I am an Apple fan generally but am slowly falling out of love.

Recent example, iTunes. I have a very old (10+ years?) iMac. I have TONS of music on it. Last year I bought a new iMac. I use them both. When I set it up somehow it gave the iTunes on the new computer a different password.

Basically creating a new account (I guess). So I have money/credit on the old computer. I tried to buy some music on it (it has a CD burner - new computer doesn’t) and it informs me the password is no good. Hmm. So I try the new computer password. Nope. OK, I’ll create a new password. Go through all of that hassle and... nope. It changed the password on my new computer.

I’m not computer savvy but I’ve tried everything I can think of short of paying Apple to help me.

Arggggg.
  #13  
Old 06-01-2019, 04:53 PM
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Itunes served its purpose years ago ...... Itunes was specifically created to get people used to paying for digital music and help shut down the file-sharing servers like the original Napster Kazaa WINmx and such and it worked beyond anyone's wildest dreams ....
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:16 PM
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ITunes was written on top of QuickTime, and was the only thing keeping QT alive internally at Apple. Nuking iTunes is Apple is finally pulling the plug on that venerable piece of crapware that QuickTime became (though it was quite innovative a very long time ago). Good riddance.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:24 PM
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oh and something else that was pointed out :
until valve started the steam gaming service iTunes was the largest DRM scheme accepted by the world (and still might be )

Last edited by nightshadea; 06-01-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Detest iTunes with extreme prejudice.

I know some of their design decisions were made with content producers' intellectual-property concerns in mind, but I am not going to use an application for the management of music files that hides from me the location of those same goddam music files.

Likewise for iPhoto / Photos / etc the location of my image files.

Everyone I know who uses iTunes sooner or later begins whimpering, "I queued up The Grey Album but three of the tracks don't play, it says it can't find them. I don't know where they are either, I don't know where any of my MP3 files are, iTunes doesn't tell me...".

I don't have my wife's computer (where my iTunes lives) with me right now but I recall there being a setting where you specify the location for the iTunes music folder.
ETA: In Music, edit, preferences, advanced preferences. Dialog box for "iTunes Media folder location."



Further, that you can select and it will store your music library by artist/album/song.

ETA: right under that, "Keep iTunes Media folder organized".



I will add that I haven't updated since 12.3.3.17 so I hope this stayed fairly constant.


I'm not a big fan of it, but it works well enough for me and I'm not looking forward to having to juggle new things to manage my music and podcasts,
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:33 PM
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I know some of their design decisions were made with content producers' intellectual-property concerns in mind, but I am not going to use an application for the management of music files that hides from me the location of those same goddam music files.
Right click on song > Show in Finder.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:39 AM
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This seems absolutely insane.

Music shifted from CD's to ITunes and Amazon Music Unlimited.

Now these bastards want to end ITunes?

Are we supposed to revert back to CD music distribution?

Thank goodness for Amazon and Spotify.

The idiots at Apple can pucker up and kiss my ass.

Last edited by aceplace57; 06-02-2019 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:07 AM
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ITunes is/was a valuable resource for self publishing musicians.

Aimee Nolte is a very accomplished Jazz Musician. She released a album a couple months ago. She had the top number of Jazz sales for several days. But never got Featured on ITunes Jazz page.

Turns out there's some back room deals between the digital distributor and ITunes. Aimee used CDBaby. A well respected indie label that distributes on Spotify and ITunes.

Aimee talks about the frustration of releasing music on ITunes.
https://youtu.be/2pF9CFH4_cY

Last edited by aceplace57; 06-02-2019 at 01:11 AM.
  #20  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:13 AM
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Now these bastards want to end ITunes?

Are we supposed to revert back to CD music distribution?

Thank goodness for Amazon and Spotify.

The idiots at Apple can pucker up and kiss my ass.
Apple isn't getting out of the music business, it's just killing iTunes as a standalone app (replacing it with other apps) and possibly the iTunes brand itself.

Last edited by zbuzz; 06-02-2019 at 01:14 AM.
  #21  
Old 06-02-2019, 02:05 AM
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Right click on song > Show in Finder.
Stop, you're undermining the outrage!
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:49 AM
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I always assumed that the reason it was a bloated horrorshow of effed-uppery was that they were trying to convince people to go elsewhere. Maybe they finally realized that the True Believers would never realize what's going on so time to make it official.
Criticism of the app itself is fine for this thread. Criticism of the users of the app, however, is not. If you have a problem with "Apple True Believers", take it to the Pit.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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Is there any information available regarding the number of people using legacy i-devices? I seem to remember reading some speculation months back when the iTunes shutdown rumblings started that Apple would have to do something to acomodate what is thought to be a significant number of people with older devices. I have a 5th gen iPod that I still use every day at work (and sometimes in a vehicle, depending on what I'm driving that day). The battery life is severely degraded at this point, but the iPod otherwise works fine aside from the occasional hang when listening to long podcasts. Having to replace the iPod will involve upgrading a car stereo, but that's about it...I've copied my entire music library over to my phone for travel purposes, and I have no problem connecting it to a modern car stereo via Bluetooth. I got into the iTunes game relatively late, so I only have about 100 songs or so that were purchased in Apple's proprietary format; it didn't take me too long to convert those.
  #24  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:13 PM
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I have an iPod Nano, which they're not making anymore. It's plugged into my car so I can listen to my tunes. I'm not sure I understand what's happening...am I going to lose access to my library of songs? I don't use iTunes for anything but music.
  #25  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:20 PM
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Holy crap, people!
Stop panicking and read the damn article!
Apple is splitting iTunes into three apps, something they should have done a decade ago. You are not going to lose any music!
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:40 PM
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Holy crap, people!
Stop panicking and read the damn article!
Apple is splitting iTunes into three apps, something they should have done a decade ago. You are not going to lose any music!
Right, and as long as those three apps WORK, I have no problem with the whole thing.

That's what I've liked about Apple in the past: just use it and hopefully it's seamless enough that it doesn't get in the way of Managing Your Stuff. Whether that's Photoshop files, web design, podcasts or music.

When figuring out what's going wrong takes more of my time than enjoying my stuff does, that's when I start cursing tech companies.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:05 PM
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That's what I've liked about Apple in the past: just use it and hopefully it's seamless enough that it doesn't get in the way of Managing Your Stuff.
I agree with Beowulf, in general on the subject, but I can't agree with this. Apple has screwed up iTunes several times over the last 10 years, sometimes to the point it wouldn't work. And after a day of me screaming rage into the void, Apple figured out that they did a bad thing, and the next day there was another update.

Frankly, I don't trust Apple not to screw it up. I fully expect functionality I've come to like and rely on to disappear. I expect the look to be "modernized". Probably optimized for smart phones, because who uses computers anymore, amirite? Chances are it won't work on machines older than oh, let's say, 10.20.
  #28  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:22 PM
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I agree with Beowulf, in general on the subject, but I can't agree with this. Apple has screwed up iTunes several times over the last 10 years, sometimes to the point it wouldn't work. And after a day of me screaming rage into the void, Apple figured out that they did a bad thing, and the next day there was another update.

Frankly, I don't trust Apple not to screw it up. I fully expect functionality I've come to like and rely on to disappear. I expect the look to be "modernized". Probably optimized for smart phones, because who uses computers anymore, amirite? Chances are it won't work on machines older than oh, let's say, 10.20.
Well, this a a “damed if you do and damed if you don’t” situation for Apple.
People have been bitching about how bloated iTunes is for ages. Now that Apple is doing something about it, people are going to bitch that they liked the old iTunes better...

I’ll wait and see what they do. If I had to guess, the current iTunes will continue to work for the next few OS iterations - at least, that’s what happened when Apple moved from iPhoto to Photos.

I will say that Apple needs to stop naming their applications the name of the thing they are managing (e.g - Photos, Numbers, Music), It makes searching for information or help much more difficult then if they were named something more clever. Like iPhoto.

Last edited by beowulff; 06-02-2019 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:07 PM
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I will say that Apple needs to stop naming their applications the name of the thing they are managing (e.g - Photos, Numbers, Music), It makes searching for information or help much more difficult then if they were named something more clever. Like iPhoto.
For the love of baby Jebus, yes.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:08 PM
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I will say that Apple needs to stop naming their applications the name of the thing they are managing (e.g - Photos, Numbers, Music), It makes searching for information or help much more difficult then if they were named something more clever. Like iPhoto.
An excellent point, this had not occurred to me. I guess you have to google "apple photos" or "mac photos" something, but the search is much less focused. I'm not a power user, obviously.

Last edited by Riemann; 06-02-2019 at 09:09 PM.
  #31  
Old 06-02-2019, 09:53 PM
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I'm worried the new Apple Music desktop app will go the same way as the iOS Music app: basically a delivery system for Apple (Streaming) Music, with lots of needless extra taps required if you opt out of Apple's streaming ecosystem in favor of managing your own music files. Provided they actually retain iTunes' present jukebox functionality —which is actually excellent, once you know the ins and outs of it — I'll stay a happy user.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:21 PM
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I'll stay happy, too...

...although I did just google "Best MP3 player app". Just in case.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:24 PM
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What does it mean that Apple is trying to "move the company’s focus away from the iPhone"?
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:28 PM
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I'm worried the new Apple Music desktop app will go the same way as the iOS Music app: basically a delivery system for Apple (Streaming) Music, with lots of needless extra taps required if you opt out of Apple's streaming ecosystem in favor of managing your own music files. Provided they actually retain iTunes' present jukebox functionality —which is actually excellent, once you know the ins and outs of it — I'll stay a happy user.
The leaked screenshot of the the new Music app looks pretty similar to the current iTunes layout — Library and Playlist management icons are still in the sidebar on the left, but they are joined by an Apple Music icon.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:32 PM
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What does it mean that Apple is trying to "move the company’s focus away from the iPhone"?
Smartphone sales are stagnant. Apple needs to develop new revenue sources - Media, cloud services, the next cool gadget, whatever.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:33 PM
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What does it mean that Apple is trying to "move the company’s focus away from the iPhone"?
It's a really poorly written article.

What the writer is talking about is how since iPhone revenue growth has plateaued, services such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc are new areas of revenue growth.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:51 PM
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I don't have my wife's computer (where my iTunes lives) with me right now but I recall there being a setting where you specify the location for the iTunes music folder.
ETA: In Music, edit, preferences, advanced preferences. Dialog box for "iTunes Media folder location."



Further, that you can select and it will store your music library by artist/album/song.

ETA: right under that, "Keep iTunes Media folder organized".



I will add that I haven't updated since 12.3.3.17 so I hope this stayed fairly constant.

I have used iTunes for years (and Apple Music ever since they introduced it and I immediately canceled Spotify) and I have never had any curiosity about what file locations they use, and can't imagine why I ever would...?
  #38  
Old 06-03-2019, 02:12 AM
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Because sometimes I want to copy a chunck of my music from my laptop to some other device. Because sometimes I use my music with other software.

But unlike "photos", iTunes is quite transparent about where it stores the music, and I've never had any issues with that.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:21 AM
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But unlike "photos", iTunes is quite transparent about where it stores the music, and I've never had any issues with that.
I can't remember how iPhotos handled it, but Photos gives you the option of importing pictures directly to your Photo Library file, so the original file location won't be linked. Otherwise, Photos maintains a link to the picture's location in Finder.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:47 AM
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I don't know where my photos are. Now, whenever I want to edit a photo with Photoshop elements, say, I need to use "photos" to copy it to a known place on my directory. This happened to me with some some upgrade, without warning me my photos would all be hidden. If you know a way of unhiding them, I'd be delighted.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:05 AM
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I don't know where my photos are. Now, whenever I want to edit a photo with Photoshop elements, say, I need to use "photos" to copy it to a known place on my directory. This happened to me with some some upgrade, without warning me my photos would all be hidden. If you know a way of unhiding them, I'd be delighted.
In the Pictures folder. But they are contained in a single huge file called Photos Library.photoslibrary (sounds like maybe you are aware of this, but not sure) So far as I know, you can't unpack this within Finder to see individual photos.

But for your issue - are you aware of Image \ Edit With in the Photos app? I think this should allow you to edit photos using another app without manually copying out the photos.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:56 AM
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Yeah, unless you can right click (two-finger click) on the file in Photos and see a menu option to show the photo in finder, it's locked up in that library file.

The editing options in Photos are very nice (I've used them to salvage some too-dark pictures), but I'm not sure how the built-in editor compares to a dedicated program like Photoshop.
  #43  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:18 AM
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As a designer, I want to instantly find and look at any media files. I was never tempted to use iPhoto or Photos, so all my pics are in the Pictures folder on my Mac. That way I can open that one folder, and sort by Date Created or Date Modified (very handy) or Size or Type (see RAW files, Tiffs and PNGs separately).

And thanks to iTunes, all my audio files are in one easily-accessible place: the iTunes Media/Music folder in my Library. Not only that, but it's all organized in separate folders by Artist/Author. And again, you can sort them any way you want to. Very handy, and if I want to mess with a file, or grab a bunch and put them on a disk/drive, I can just see the actual files and drag them wherever I want them.

If you've never seen your music files, pick a track in iTunes, right-click: "Show in Finder" (or command-shift-R on a Mac), and there it is*.
Now if Apple messes with that, I'll, I'll ... have to figure that out when the time comes.

*Very frustrating that I can't do that on an iPhone. And I assume an iPad works like a phone, where everything's just kept "somewhere"... Aaaarrrrgh! I want to see my files!

Last edited by digs; 06-03-2019 at 08:20 AM.
  #44  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:26 AM
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But for your issue - are you aware of Image \ Edit With in the Photos app? I think this should allow you to edit photos using another app without manually copying out the photos.
Can't say about Photos, but in iPhoto you can set the right click default to "edit with external editor" and specify any editing software you want. When done, it saves back to the original file. No duplication necessary.

Although I prefer to use Photoshop, the built in iPhoto editing suite does have the feature of keeping an unaltered copy that you can revert to at anytime.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 06-03-2019 at 08:26 AM.
  #45  
Old 06-03-2019, 11:12 AM
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I'm clearly the ideal Apple customer. I never want to see file folders, directories, etc. if I can possibly avoid it. Just blanket everything in user-friendly gauze and make it all look pretty and sleek, and I'm happy as a clam.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:19 AM
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I'm clearly the ideal Apple customer. I never want to see file folders, directories, etc. if I can possibly avoid it. Just blanket everything in user-friendly gauze and make it all look pretty and sleek, and I'm happy as a clam.
I'm glad you posted this... because I'd probably be more relaxed if I were more like that. (It's like those people you see on the street, and you wonder how they can be so happy with all the crap going on ... maybe they're just content to be oblivious.)

So, Apple, you just do whatever you're going to do, and I'll cope (...somehow):
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:34 AM
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(The caveat is that it has to just work, seamlessly. No error messages, no frozen screen or "spinning beach ball of doom", etc. And preferably it works instantly without any lag.)
  #48  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
In the Pictures folder. But they are contained in a single huge file called Photos Library.photoslibrary (sounds like maybe you are aware of this, but not sure) So far as I know, you can't unpack this within Finder to see individual photos.

But for your issue - are you aware of Image \ Edit With in the Photos app? I think this should allow you to edit photos using another app without manually copying out the photos.
Yeah, I do know that they are hidden in a giant file. I was hoping there was a way to unpack that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Can't say about Photos, but in iPhoto you can set the right click default to "edit with external editor" and specify any editing software you want. When done, it saves back to the original file. No duplication necessary.

Although I prefer to use Photoshop, the built in iPhoto editing suite does have the feature of keeping an unaltered copy that you can revert to at anytime.
it's not so much that i want to edit one file. I want to build a collage out of several, or post photos to a website, or... I find it incredibly annoying that apple has hidden my content. I'm looking into expirting everything (if i even can) and using light room or something instead.

Last edited by puzzlegal; 06-03-2019 at 12:03 PM.
  #49  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
Yeah, I do know that they are hidden in a giant file. I was hoping there was a way to unpack that.
it's not so much that i want to edit one file. I want to build a collage out of several, or post photos to a website, or... I find it incredibly annoying that apple has hidden my content. I'm looking into expirting everything (if i even can) and using light room or something instead.
It’s trivial to do.
Just select the images you want to export, and choose “File->Export.” You can choose to export the edited or original files. This is EXACTLY what you want to do if you had access to the original files in the Finder - make a copy of the files. If you move the files, you will break Photos. If you don’t mid breaking Photos, then you can find the originals in Photos Library->Originals. You need to right-click on Photos Library and choose “Show Package Contents.”

I strongly recommend that you not mess around in the Photos Library, unless you don’t mind wrecking it. Use the Export feature.

ETA - the images are NOT stored in a “giant file” - they are stored in a hidden directory structure, organized by year.

Last edited by beowulff; 06-03-2019 at 12:11 PM.
  #50  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:35 PM
Just Asking Questions is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulff View Post
It’s trivial to do.
Just select the images you want to export, and choose “File->Export.” You can choose to export the edited or original files. This is EXACTLY what you want to do if you had access to the original files in the Finder - make a copy of the files. If you move the files, you will break Photos. If you don’t mid breaking Photos, then you can find the originals in Photos Library->Originals. You need to right-click on Photos Library and choose “Show Package Contents.”

I strongly recommend that you not mess around in the Photos Library, unless you don’t mind wrecking it. Use the Export feature.

ETA - the images are NOT stored in a “giant file” - they are stored in a hidden directory structure, organized by year.
The one bad thing about the current iPhoto file system is that all the photos have unrecognizable names that are just assigned numbers. You can't find "img_2175" anywhere, but 45929A57/3D is right there in the directory. The prior editions of iPhoto kept them in folders by date. the structure was 2019>June>June14>img_2175-img_2190 (for example).

But iPhoto still knows right where they are. I preferred the old way, but I have learned to live with the current version. But this is the kind of thing I was thinking about in my post above.

Current iTunes keeps the content in a logical directory structure. Music>folders with band names>folders with album names> individual song files (in their real names - Hotel California.aiff, for example.) I fear Apple will use the iPhoto style name convention for directories in the new Music or whatever they call it.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 06-03-2019 at 12:37 PM.
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