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Old 01-05-2018, 03:57 AM
ruadh ruadh is offline
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Black cat syndrome

Do black dogs experience prejudice?

I do occasional fostering for a cat rescue where Black Cat Syndrome is known to be a thing. The people who run the rescue attribute it to the difficulty getting good photographs of black cats. We don't have a shelter that intending adopters can visit; the photos on the website are all we have to "sell" them with.

Lingering superstition could also be a factor.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:12 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
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They're afraid of the Grim, perhaps?
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:13 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Translation = black people don't photograph well in a white-dominated racist society ...

I think Sluggo got it wrong though ... black dog chained up, white dog pissing on KKK member ... the KKK hates on Catholics too, them folk tend to be white ... any white Catholic that pisses on a KKK member is going to be lynched ...

Again we've missed an important lesson from the 2016 National Elections ... there's a profound number of racists in the United States ... even down to the animal shelter workers ... so sad ...
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:39 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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the KKK hates on Catholics too, them folk tend to be white
You might be surprised. I'm having a hard time finding racial breakdowns, but 39% of Catholics are in Latin America and the Caribbean, 16% in sub-Saharan Africa, and 12% in Asia and the Pacific. Plus, of the 8% who are in North America, many will also be non-white. I'm pretty sure that in my traditionally-Irish parish, we now have more Africans than Irish, including our pastor.

EDIT: I'm also seeing figures that, of Catholics in the United States, 30% were born in other countries. Some of those will still be white, but they're still subject to anti-immigrant discrimination.

Last edited by Chronos; 01-05-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Translation = black people don't photograph well in a white-dominated racist society ...

I think Sluggo got it wrong though ... black dog chained up, white dog pissing on KKK member ... the KKK hates on Catholics too, them folk tend to be white ... any white Catholic that pisses on a KKK member is going to be lynched ...

Again we've missed an important lesson from the 2016 National Elections ... there's a profound number of racists in the United States ... even down to the animal shelter workers ... so sad ...
I'm an amateur photographer.

Black people often DON'T photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you're going to claim that the laws of physics are racist. If they're wearing dark-hued clothing, it isn't so bad, but if they're wearing anything light-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:46 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
I'm an amateur photographer.

Black people often DON'T photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you're going to claim that the laws of physics are racist. If they're wearing dark-hued clothing, it isn't so bad, but if they're wearing anything light-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
A friend of mine takes passport photos. He tells me that his experience is the opposite - white folks often ask for re-takes of admittedly bad pictures, while black customers are usually satisfied with theirs. We're obviously talking about different contexts, though; a tight headshot isn't going to be complicated by clothing choices.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:53 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
I'm an amateur photographer.

Black people often DON'T photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you're going to claim that the laws of physics are racist. If they're wearing dark-hued clothing, it isn't so bad, but if they're wearing anything light-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
Use a mask when you expose the print ...
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:12 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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We had a solid black cat with green eyes, he was very photogenic. All you needed was a light background.
He was not jinxed or evil, at all.
My 2 Siamese are miles ahead on the evilness factor. It's clear they are sociopathic!
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:15 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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My 2 Siamese are miles ahead on the evilness factor. It's clear they are sociopathic!
So is Lady and the Tramp a documentary as far as the breed is concerned? Or do you think this is specific to your kitties?

Back on topic: it's interesting that Cecil debunks this. Black Labs and their mixes are so popular that I can't see them not flying out of shelters. Good to see data in place of supposition.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:07 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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No cat variety is more evil than calicos. I've never once met a calico that was nice. I did once own one that we thought was lovey-dovey... until she responded to my sister petting her by giving her a face-ectomy.

She ended up going to live at a farm out in the country.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:30 PM
EdelweissPirate EdelweissPirate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
I'm an amateur photographer.

Black people often DON'T photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you're going to claim that the laws of physics are racist. If they're wearing dark-hued clothing, it isn't so bad, but if they're wearing anything light-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
What a coincidence! I’m also an amateur photographer, and my experience is the opposite.

White people often don’t photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you’re going to claim that people are often racist without meaning to be. If they’re wearing light-hued clothing, it isn’t so bad, but if they’re wearing anything dark-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:30 PM
minor7flat5 minor7flat5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
I'm an amateur photographer.

Black people often DON'T photograph well. And it has nothing to do with racism, unless you're going to claim that the laws of physics are racist. If they're wearing dark-hued clothing, it isn't so bad, but if they're wearing anything light-colored, some part of the picture is going to be either overexposed or underexposed.
Yes there is a bit of racism in this, though in the past.

Take a look at Shirley Cards.

Fact of the matter is, color photography has always been about making optimizations so that imperfect chemistry could replicate real life in a pleasing fashion. And if they were using Shirley Cards as the standard for "what to optimize for" then it is reasonable to expect that the chemistry was optimized for white people in the formative years of color photography.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:39 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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I think maybe it's my cats. I have a bro and sis, 2 heads are more evil than one YMMV.
They rule the house.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 01-05-2018 at 02:40 PM.
  #14  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:51 PM
Backwater Under_Duck Backwater Under_Duck is offline
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Back on topic: it's interesting that Cecil debunks this. Black Labs and their mixes are so popular that I can't see them not flying out of shelters. Good to see data in place of supposition.[/QUOTE]

Our local (SoCal) shelter maintains that brown Chihuahuas are the toughest to place, and there is always too many of them.
  #15  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:43 PM
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I have one good photograph each of a former dog and cat, who were both black. Lovely animals,but there was never enough contrast.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:22 PM
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When I was photographing weddings pre digital and photoshop, Mamyia C330 and Veracolor film. Very dark skinned brides in white dresses were always an issue. The film just couldn't handle the contrast range required for detail in the dress and the face. Nowadays you either go high dynamic range software or bracket and combine exposures in photoshop. B&W film was no problem, but folks didn't want that except for maybe one shot.

I've had several black dogs and through enough light on them so you get shine on some of the fur and it works pretty well.

GaryM
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:42 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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The trick to photographing my black cat (Theo, age 2) is the lighting. In good light, I get great pics. In poor lighting, he's just a black lump.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
When I was photographing weddings pre digital and photoshop, Mamyia C330 and Veracolor film. Very dark skinned brides in white dresses were always an issue. The film just couldn't handle the contrast range required for detail in the dress and the face. Nowadays you either go high dynamic range software or bracket and combine exposures in photoshop. B&W film was no problem, but folks didn't want that except for maybe one shot.

I've had several black dogs and through enough light on them so you get shine on some of the fur and it works pretty well.

GaryM
Both good pictures were of the pet sleeping in the sun streaming into an unlit room through a window.

Dark skinned brides always looking breathtaking in ads and celebrity shots.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:15 PM
GaryM GaryM is offline
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Both good pictures were of the pet sleeping in the sun streaming into an unlit room through a window.

Dark skinned brides always looking breathtaking in ads and celebrity shots.
Photoshop/Lightroom works great. Wasn't around back then. Cameras that automatically bracket exposures didn't exit either. I wish they did.

GaryM
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:15 AM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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We had a couple of black cats at various times when I was growing up. Loved them. Local lore was they were lucky if you owned them.

I have never heard of black-dog syndrome.
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Last edited by Siam Sam; 01-06-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:21 AM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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+1
People were always commenting on our black cat, though. My MIL would not go near it. He was harmless and a big sweetie.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:53 AM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Huh. I figure the best color for a cat is black. And my wiener dogs are mostly black, except for Ted, who is white and orange. Funny, that Ted dog. https://www.flickr.com/photos/155285423@N02/

Last edited by Gatopescado; 01-06-2018 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:04 PM
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Gatopescado; I enjoyed your pictures! Those babies are kissibly cute!!
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:00 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
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Our black cat, Piper Grace, is probably the one I have the least photos of -- not because of the contrast, but because she's afraid of the camera noise. She's the shyest cat I've ever come across.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:13 PM
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Is it POSSIBLE that people are irrationally hostile to black dogs? Sure. But I doubt that's the reason there are a lot of black dogs in shelters.

What's the most commonr dog breed in America? The Labrador. And a LOT of Labradors are black (including my own!). Ergo, in any shelter, there will be lots of black Labs and black Lab mixes.

Last edited by astorian; 01-06-2018 at 09:13 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-07-2018, 10:27 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
Is it POSSIBLE that people are irrationally hostile to black dogs? Sure. But I doubt that's the reason there are a lot of black dogs in shelters.
"Through my research I learned that Black Dog Syndrome may be caused by a combination of:

Size
Unclear facial features
Dimly lit kennels
The “genericness” of black pets
Negative portrayals of black pets in books, movies and other popular media
A big, frightening black dog can be seen in The Hound of the Baskervilles, the Harry Potter series, both movie versions of The Omen, and even on the common “Beware of Dog” sign.
Black cats are readily associated with witches, superstition, and bad luck."


https://www.petfinder.com/pet-adopti...-dog-syndrome/

Lots of human stupidity involved, not generic "racism".

We had a Lab who was nuts, but not because she was black. And we rescued a black kitten that wandered out of the woods.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:28 PM
SCSimmons SCSimmons is offline
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Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
We had a solid black cat with green eyes, he was very photogenic. All you needed was a light background.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
The trick to photographing my black cat (Theo, age 2) is the lighting. In good light, I get great pics. In poor lighting, he's just a black lump.
Yeah, it can be tricky. We named our solid-black cat 'Smudge' after looking at the first couple of pictures we tried to take of her. Looked like a defect in the film with two green eyes in the middle of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
No cat variety is more evil than calicos. I've never once met a calico that was nice. I did once own one that we thought was lovey-dovey... until she responded to my sister petting her by giving her a face-ectomy.
Huh. The only calico I ever had was the friendliest cat I've ever seen. She loved everybody--family, friends, strangers, other cats, dogs, coyotes ... Stupidest animal I've ever hosted in my home, and that includes goldfish. But really, really sweet and loving.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:49 AM
ruadh ruadh is offline
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
The trick to photographing my black cat (Theo, age 2) is the lighting. In good light, I get great pics. In poor lighting, he's just a black lump.
I've fostered a few black cats, and I find the best way to get pictures of them is against white backgrounds. Unfortunately this means a lot of the spontaneous pictures I like to take don't work as well with the black ones, since very little in my apartment is white, but here are two exceptions:

Moon in the bathtub
Barney against an unpainted wall
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:07 AM
Blue Blistering Barnacle Blue Blistering Barnacle is offline
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I love my black dog, but spontaneous (ie smartphone) pix of her are usually awful. At least the cute, close-up, inside ones of her sleeping or cuddled up. All her parts blend together. Outside pix come out better, but it's harder to catch good poses/moments.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:04 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
Quoth astorian:

Is it POSSIBLE that people are irrationally hostile to black dogs? Sure. But I doubt that's the reason there are a lot of black dogs in shelters.

What's the most commonr dog breed in America? The Labrador. And a LOT of Labradors are black (including my own!). Ergo, in any shelter, there will be lots of black Labs and black Lab mixes.
Speaking of which, there's a misleading point in Cecil's article. Black coat is indeed dominant over lighter colors, but that in itself doesn't mean that black would be more common. For comparison, it's also a dominant trait for humans to have an extra finger, but you don't see very many six-fingered men running around.

However, a purebred dog will be homozygous in all of the genes for significant aspects of its appearance, and in particular, a purebred Lab will be homozygous black. Which means that a mix between a purebred Lab and any other dog will always end up black, no matter what the genetics of the other parent. So as long as there are people maintaining a breeding stock of pure Labs, and as long as some of those end up having bastard puppies that eventually have to be adopted out, there will be a constant supply of black shelter dogs.
  #31  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:00 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Gatopescado; I enjoyed your pictures! Those babies are kissibly cute!!
Thanks. Glad you enjoy them. They are my buddies.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:24 PM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is offline
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About black cats, it's still that whole crap about stealing babies' breath. I've heard it from more than one person. A couple of these folks tried to science it up by saying the cats would smell milk on the babies' faces and sit on the kids and smother them while licking at the smell. Yeah, that's a lot more convincing than stealing souls. It's still all bullshit. And it always seemed to be a concern about black cats more than any other kind. Witches, their familiars and Satan and day care centers....oooooh scary.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:44 PM
DPRK DPRK is offline
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Apart from witches that transform into cats, aren't (real) black cats always considered the luckiest and most desirable type of cat by sailors, fishermen, and others that are steeped in folklore and always around a lot of cats?
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:17 PM
Atamasama Atamasama is offline
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For comparison, it's also a dominant trait for humans to have an extra finger, but you don't see very many six-fingered men running around.
Of course not. Inigo Montoya keeps killing them.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:55 AM
eastcheap eastcheap is offline
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A couple of these folks tried to science it up by saying the cats would smell milk on the babies' faces and sit on the kids and smother them while licking at the smell.
That is pretty far-fetched. Imagine a cat needing an excuse to sit on someone's face.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:29 PM
purplehearingaid purplehearingaid is offline
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We have a shelter out here that doesn't like to adopt out black cats around Halloween time b/c they're afraid the cats will be use in some horrible witchcraft ritual . My daughter and her husband had to convince the shelter they really wanted a black cat for their child b/c their last a cat a black one had dies . They got their black cat ! My last dog was a black Standard Poodle and my hearing dog and some people were really afraid of b/c he was black and he was so well trained strangers could walk over him while he was lying down . We ran into a white standard poodle and the dog almost attacked us when we walked pass it !
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