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Old 04-16-2019, 12:33 PM
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Kobal2 is online now
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I know, PF made playing rogues much friendlier (on top of all the toys they've given rogues to play with to boot), that's what I was saying. Allowing sneak attacks on undead is probably the most notable change in there since undead are so common even in campaigns that are not explicitly undead themed.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:07 PM
DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by vislor View Post
Actually, PF loosened up how many enemies could be hit by sneak attack. It went from:

Elementals, Oozes, Swarms, Undead, Plants, Constructs,


Elementals, Oozes, Swarms, and Incorporeal Undead.

That might not seem all that different but allowing physical undead and constructs was a big deal as they were just common enough that it allowed the rogue to be a lot more effective.
And allowing crits & SA vs undead made sense- since many undead are traditionally killed by a heart or head hit.
Old 04-17-2019, 01:18 AM
Gray Ghost is offline
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
And allowing crits & SA vs undead made sense- since many undead are traditionally killed by a heart or head hit.
I like the logic of it. I was just curious whether elementals were susceptible to sneak attacks, as it wasn't explicitly excluded from affecting them, yet didn't seem like the sort of creatures one could backstab or that you got special credit for hitting them in the head.

Oh well, not the first time the various D&D systems haven't made sense to me; won't be the last.

As for V and not discounting magic attacks, V's been doing that a lot in recent fights. (Forcecage galore anyone? And hoo-boy, the spell component cost: Ruby dust worth 1500 gp a pop. Lathander, you need to go adventuring just to afford your spell component costs... No wonder people Shoot The Mage first; it's where all of the treasure is.)

Even when the fight would, IMHO, be better solved with just a simple Disintegrate. Or a Sunburst for this fight. Just kill the damn vamps when they're in the open already. The range is essentially if you see them, they probably will both die if it hits, just shoot while you're invisible and the second you turn the corner to enter the chamber. (Even if it makes for a poorer story.)

What I can't figure out is how Roy has a Mind Blank operating on him, which works against the various Hold spells, and yet got held by the LDW. Or, per dtilque, he got the Mind Blank Dispelled off him during the DM/GDM barrage by all of the vamps back when Durkon was Greg, yet afterwards wasn't dominated unlike seemingly everyone else in the party. Despite being the guy who was picking off vampires one by one with his throw-the-undead-bane-returning-greatsword-trick, and so being the guy you'd think the vamps would really try to dominate.

I think it's a simple as Burlew forgot that Mind Blank either was still active, or worked against the Hold family of spells. Despite him forgetting in a single afternoon more about the various D&D mechanics than I'll ever know. I certainly was surprised when I read the description of it, and the Hold spells, and thought it would work to prevent being Held. Just not something I'd expect that kind of spell to also protect against.
Old 04-17-2019, 03:17 AM
dtilque is offline
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Yes, Burlew forgetting Roy had the Mind Blank is the most likely. But I had another idea:

Roy's Mind Blank actually was Dispelled in 1122, but he's immune to undead Domination (and perhaps other special undead attacks like energy drain) when he's fighting with the Green Energy Eyeglow™. So while he was Dominated in 1009 when he wasn't fighting like that, he wasn't in the fight afterward when he was.

Last edited by dtilque; 04-17-2019 at 03:18 AM.
Old 04-17-2019, 06:29 AM
Gray Ghost is offline
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I was wondering about the GEE with the sword helping him out there too. But it starts to get a little ridiculous with all of the powers that thing has, at a certain point. Returns, heals wielder, and acts as, what? I thought Protection from Evil would be the lowest spell that would explain the domination not working, but that spell only abates domination while active, it doesn't remove it. Mind Blank as well? Protection from Charm? I wonder if it works on Confusion too?

I had no idea Burlew was a hack NWN2/BG2 mod writer...
Old 04-17-2019, 08:00 AM
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It doesn't have to be a specific spell effect. It could just be "While active, the user is protected from vampires' Dominate Person effect..." and maybe a few other anti-undead protections like paralyzing ghoul touch, mummy rot, ghostly possession or whatever. Powerful for fighting undead but not an all purpose Protection from Evil/Mind Blank/etc
Old 04-17-2019, 08:24 AM
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It could also just be that the Mind Blank was dispelled, but he rolled his saves against the vampire domination attempts (we know he has a better Will save than most folks). Against the Death-Worm's Hold, he just got unlucky. It happens sometimes.


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