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  #251  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:47 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
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Ned's greatsword was melted down, and I think the two swords made of it are both in the north now, aren't they?
Brienne has one and she's there, and I think Jaime has the other and he just arrived. Do I have that right? Joffrey's sword went to Jaime after Joffrey was killed?

Surely Jorah will wind up with something. Probably Sam's.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 04-18-2019 at 04:49 PM.
  #252  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:54 PM
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If that's their job, they haven't exactly been Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, or even Snowy. All together, they've only managed to successfully protect Jon and Bran, and the latter only by self-sacrifice. So far the count is 2/6 dead Stark children, and 5/6 direwolves dead or AWOL.
Summer saved both Bran and Cat by killing Bran's would-be assassin. Nymeria saved Arya from almost surely being gutted by Joffrey. And if you want to count Bran's warging, Summer and Shaggydog saved Jon, Bran, Rickon, Meera, Jojen and Hodor. In fact, it's possible he only wargs into Summer, meaning Shaggydog attacks the wildlings on his own just by following Summer, because it isn't totally clear if Bran is controlling both direwolves. He might be, though.

That being said, they haven't exactly been as directly important in the grand scheme of things as so many of us, I think, inferred from their introduction.
  #253  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:01 PM
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Not getting the point. One of the dragons is also dead and working for the other side.
Just that if I had a supernatural giant wolf protector I would want it to be at least as effective as Snowy. Dany's dragons have played far more of a role in keeping her safe than any of the direwolves. But I was joking a bit.

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I also note that all the Valyrian Steel blades in the kingdom except maybe one or two are now also where they need to be, even though no one really planned that. Sam has his family's sword, seemingly grabbed on a whim. Arya wound up with a Valryian steel dagger. Ned's greatsword was melted down, and I think the two swords made of it are both in the north now, aren't they?
Heartsbane, of House Tarly, was stolen and brought to Winterfell by Sam.

Longclaw, of House Mormont, was given to Jon Snow by Jeor Mormont. (If he hadn't become an outlaw, it would have gone to his son Jorah.)

Ice, of House Stark, was melted down and used to make two swords. Oathkeeper was given to Jaime, who passed it on to Brienne. Widow's Wail was originally given to Joffrey but is now in the possession of Jaime.

Littlefinger's Valyrian steel dagger (unnamed) is now in the possession of Arya, but she mostly uses Needle, an ordinary steel rapier given to her by Jon Snow.

I believe those are all the Valyrian steel weapons known on the TV show, and all are in the possession of characters now at Winterfell. Except for Sam, they are all pretty potent warriors.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-18-2019 at 05:07 PM.
  #254  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:07 PM
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The finale was just leaked. It is a very red ending.

#RespectIsComing

Last edited by zbuzz; 04-18-2019 at 05:12 PM.
  #255  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:12 PM
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Except for Sam, they are all pretty potent warriors.
Although Sam is only one of two to kill a White Walker.
  #256  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:21 PM
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Although Sam is only one of two to kill a White Walker.
Good point. However, he killed it by stabbing it in the back with a dragonglass dagger. I wonder if he'd even be able to swing a longsword effectively.
  #257  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:31 PM
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The finale was just leaked. It is a very red ending.

#RespectIsComing
Is this a joke or is it a real spoiler leak? I'm not clicking on it without being sure.

According to the OP:

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There's no need for spoiler boxes in these threads. If the show has aired, you're free to discuss it openly.
Is this information about an unaired episode or not?
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  #258  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:53 PM
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It's safe. And moderately funny.
  #259  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:03 PM
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Okay, that was fun.
  #260  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:04 PM
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How do you get this admittedly-interesting theory to fit with the "three children" prophecy Cersei received from Maggy the Frog?
I don't. Prophecies are often vague, inaccurate and/or confusing.

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Confused by who's who and what's what in GOT? Want to talk to an actual star of the show? Call the Game of Phones hotline!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4-R3JvGdJs
That was hysterical!

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. . .
Considering they've been around since the first episode they've had very little actual role in the plot.
. . .
Ghost found the dragonglass weapons on the Fist of the First Men. Sam ended up with one, and it was at hand when he needed to stop a White Walker. That's how they found out that dragonglass kills them.

Without Ghost the story ends here. There are also many who believe that Jon warged into Ghost when he was stabbed, and otherwise would not have come back to life. So without Ghost the story may have ended even sooner.

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The finale was just leaked. It is a very red ending.

#RespectIsComing
Bwa hahahaaaa!
  #261  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:21 PM
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Ghost found the dragonglass weapons on the Fist of the First Men. Sam ended up with one, and it was at hand when he needed to stop a White Walker. That's how they found out that dragonglass kills them.
Let's say they haven't played any essential role in the plot so far that depends on them being supernatural protectors of the Starks. For example, the dragonglass could have been found by anyone or by some other method. Starks and others have been rescued by them on occasion, but that role could have been played by some other character including an ordinary human. The dragons, in contrast, have been absolutely indispensable to Dany's entire storyline. Without them, and specifically their magical qualities, she couldn't have achieved any of her conquests and would have been dead several times over. Dany would be nothing without the dragons, while the direwolves are a sidelight that could have been eliminated from the story without making any real difference.
  #262  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:32 PM
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So where is Meera Reed? Shouldn't she be hanging around Bran and Winterfell?
  #263  
Old 04-18-2019, 07:38 PM
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So where is Meera Reed? Shouldn't she be hanging around Bran and Winterfell?
I think she went home to wherever it is the Reeds live. It's weird that we have never seen Howland Reed other than in the Tower of Joy flashback though, he's a Stark bannerman so he probably should have mustered some units to their cause at some point.
  #264  
Old 04-18-2019, 07:51 PM
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Given that he has known all along about Jon's true parentage, it's no wonder the show made him a non-person.
  #265  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:04 PM
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That conversation about "the ginger who got his eyelids burned off" was referring to the Lannister soldier/singer whom Arya met last season, no?
  #266  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:07 PM
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I think she went home to wherever it is the Reeds live.
Yeah, she went back to the swamp (Greywater Watch, on the Neck) where the Reeds live to be with her family when the Walkers come. She got upset with Bran when all he said was "Thanks" when she said she was going to leave.
  #267  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:13 PM
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That conversation about "the ginger who got his eyelids burned off" was referring to the Lannister soldier/singer whom Arya met last season, no?
Yeah, it referred to the cameo by Ed Sheeran. Sheeran apparently Instagrammed, "Thanks, I knew I was a survivor." I'm sure burning him up was a wink at all the criticism the cameo got.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-18-2019 at 08:14 PM.
  #268  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:28 AM
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Predators don't usually eat other predators for a reason: they're too rare to make it worthwhile to hunt them. The dragons would have to expend more energy looking for bears and wolves than they would gain by eating them.
Off topic, but this showed up in my newsfeed today:

Killer whales feast on the livers of great white sharks just one orca sighting can keep the sharks away for a year

I assume the dragons could eat the deer, moose, or whatever the bears and wolves eat in the North.
  #269  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:48 AM
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I assume the dragons could eat the deer, moose, or whatever the bears and wolves eat in the North.
Another consideration is that if the dragons have to go out ranging far and wide to hunt they may not be available when the Army of the Dead arrives. Remember Drogon was gone for months at one point.
  #270  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:58 AM
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Just that if I had a supernatural giant wolf protector I would want it to be at least as effective as Snowy. ....
And hopefully less likely to be distracted by bones.

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Littlefinger's Valyrian steel dagger (unnamed) is now in the possession of Arya....
You know what kind of people name weapons.
  #271  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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You know what kind of people name weapons.
Yes I do.
  #272  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:45 AM
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Heh. I knew you did.
  #273  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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Too bad Gendry didn't name the Hound's weapon for him.
  #274  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:01 PM
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...You know what kind of people name weapons.
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Heh, I thought of something completely different.

SPOILER:
Hartman: "Tonight, you pukes will sleep with your rifles. You will give your rifle a girl's name."
  #275  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:02 PM
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Too bad Gendry didn't name the Hound's weapon for him.
Cunt would have been perfect.
  #276  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:11 PM
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Cunt would have been perfect.
I was going to suggest "Cuntsmiter."
  #277  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:21 PM
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Definitely not "Buttlicker."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QQBB3cwNM0
  #278  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:22 PM
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In season one, Ned tells Arya that one she'll one day be a great lady, etc. etc. and she responds "That's not me." When she encounters her wolf in a later season, she says "That's not you," meaning that reuniting with Arya wasn't the life the wolf was meant to live. Didn't realize the parallel until I rewatched episodes from season one last week.
  #279  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:32 PM
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Has no one mentioned how awful Jon Snow's plan actually was? Aside from turning the North into a province of Dany's new Targaryen empire (which no one seems super jazzed up about), all he's managed to do is lose a dragon to the Night King, essentially delivering to him a method of breaching The Wall. Cersei is no more on board with helping than she was before, except now she a) knows their plans and b) knows they are short one dragon. At best, all Jon has done is inspire Jaime Lannister to come north where he will be lucky to not be killed by every character he's fucked over for the past seven seasons.
  #280  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:50 PM
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Has no one mentioned how awful Jon Snow's plan actually was?
The stupidity of the whole Wight Hunt plot device was discussed at considerable length last season, even before the fact that the dead dragon would be used to breach the Wall was known.

Last edited by Colibri; 04-19-2019 at 05:53 PM.
  #281  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:12 PM
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What was Cersei scheming about at the end there? Is she thinking marrying Euron would make a good cover for having Jamie and hers kid?
She was always using Euron for his fleet; now that all the men in her family have either died or betrayed her she's using him for his cock too.

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I think at some point Jon will end up in a big fire. When he emerges unscathed Dany will know. Maybe she orders him into the fire to find out.
Hopefully they won't skimp on the nudity.

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I'm wondering what they're going to do with Daenerys being Jon's aunt. I'm not so sure they'll be willing to show a successful aunt/nephew love story and happily ever after stuff. Makes me suspect that one of them will die. Likely Jon because Daenerys can bear a child if she survives and he doesn't, so ensuring continuity...
Saturday Night Live did a nephew beauty pageant when Kit Harrington. It took me longer than I care to admit to make the connection.

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Right. And Westeros (except for Dorne) practices male-preference primogeniture, so any male heir inherits before any female. (Not sure if this strictly applies to Targaryens, however, and in any case, as in medieval Europe, it could be cast aside for political considerations.)
IIRC House Targaryen practices an even stricter form of succession similar to Semi-salic law. Of course right of conquest trumps everything else.

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...However, the real reason the wine is significant is that the writers needed a shorthand way to indicate to Tyrion that Cersei might be pregnant. They decided on wine because it was something that would be noticed by modern audiences as being significant.
Well the maesters do seem to be more advanced than Mediaeval physicians, but this is the most reasonable explanation.
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  #282  
Old 04-19-2019, 07:11 PM
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Heheh - yes. Check out the cubicle decor for each actor. Also, the phones in the Game of Phones logo have the house sigils at the ends.
Kimmel's production people really did put a lot of effort into that. Loved the acting, too.

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No habla Dothraki.
Perfect ending joke!

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It's weird that we have never seen Howland Reed other than in the Tower of Joy flashback though, he's a Stark bannerman so he probably should have mustered some units to their cause at some point.
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Given that he has known all along about Jon's true parentage, it's no wonder the show made him a non-person.
True, but he'd come in handy now, as an actual living witness to the facts of Jon's parentage. If they need to prove that in some way other than Jon surviving fire or such.




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...Saturday Night Live did a nephew beauty pageant when Kit Harrington. It took me longer than I care to admit to make the connection. ....
That skit didn't so much as make a pass at a hint of a reference to GoT....I'm sure that most viewers were like me in expecting a connection to be made. But: no.

Harington certainly looked completely different in that wig (and with no facial hair). Not sure I would have realized it was him. Decent American accent, too.
  #283  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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I'd like to see a siege of Winterfell where all the medieval defensive measures work fantastically well, perfectly even, because the dead don't try to defend themselves from it. Until the bodies start piling up high enough to just climb over the walls...

A normal siege is back away from the castle defenses, using long range siege to eventually knock down walls. Thousands of men swarming the walls with ladders tends to be avoided for obvious reasons (see the invasion of Paris from the show Vikings for an example) but the dead wouldn't care.

I enjoy towering and walling up in RTS games against the computer and then watching the mindless computer units walk exactly down the killing path I've set up for them and getting relentlessly mown down. That's the kind of castle siege I wanna see. Doesn't have to be the final or even a decisive battle.

The only problem is that I don't see any real weapons for the humans besides fire. Even if dragonglass kills wights (do we know if it does?) they don't have enough to manufacture ranged ammunition; only melee weapons. You defend castles with ranged weapons, not melee, so that leaves only fire, yes? It's not like the dead would care if you poured boiling oil on them.

Too bad there aren't truckloads of wildfire to ship up north. That could come in really handy.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 04-20-2019 at 02:15 PM.
  #284  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:40 PM
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The only problem is that I don't see any real weapons for the humans besides fire. Even if dragonglass kills wights (do we know if it does?) they don't have enough to manufacture ranged ammunition; only melee weapons. You defend castles with ranged weapons, not melee, so that leaves only fire, yes?
Well, these certainly looked like arrowheads to me.
  #285  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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Well, these certainly looked like arrowheads to me.
I stand corrected. Seems like a massive waste of material, but they showed arrowheads. It is known.
  #286  
Old 04-20-2019, 02:51 PM
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Agreed.

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I'd like to see a siege of Winterfell where all the medieval defensive measures work fantastically well, perfectly even, because the dead don't try to defend themselves from it. Until the bodies start piling up high enough to just climb over the walls....
Something similar happens in World War Z.
  #287  
Old 04-20-2019, 03:24 PM
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Even if dragonglass kills wights (do we know if it does?)
On the show, we do know that it works.

When they brought the wight to King's Landing to display, they explained that they could be killed with fire and dragonglass. Fire they demonstrated with the detached arm. The dragonglass demonstration was with the main body of the corpse.

I think they made a particular point of it because it hadn't happened to a wight in battle.
  #288  
Old 04-20-2019, 03:38 PM
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Although Sam is only one of two to kill a White Walker.
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Good point. However, he killed it by stabbing it in the back with a dragonglass dagger. I wonder if he'd even be able to swing a longsword effectively.
Reading up on dragonglass, I see that three people have actually killed a White Walker: Sam, Meera (using dragonglass in the Cave of the Three-eyed Raven), and Jon Snow. Jon has killed two, both with Valyrian steel: one at Hardhome, and one during the Wight Hunt.
  #289  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:06 PM
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For what it's worth:

The 'Game of Thrones' Night King Spiral Mystery Has Officially Been Solved

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But there is no more need to theorize, and we have arrived at an actual answer for this question. Im not just talking about a really good fan idea that sounds correct, Im talking about the guy who wrote the premiere and put the flaming spiral in it explaining outright what it means. Heres Game of Thrones premiere writer Dave Hill talking to the New York Post when asked the question:

As we saw with Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven, the spiral pattern was sacred to the Children of the Forest, who created the Night King by sacrificing a captured man in a spiral henge of stones. The Night King then adopted the symbol as a sort of blasphemy, like Satan with the upside-down cross.

So thats it. The White Walkers use this symbol, and at least a few other ones, as stolen sacred icons from the Children of the Forest, whom they hate, as a way to dishonor them. I suppose you can then go a level deeper and ask well what did the symbol mean for the Children of the Forest then? But I have a feeling this is going to be as far as this mystery goes, and simply identifying the spiral as a sacred symbol is going to be all the explanation we get.
  #290  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:42 PM
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I suppose you can then go a level deeper and ask “well what did the symbol mean for the Children of the Forest then?” But I have a feeling this is going to be as far as this mystery goes, and simply identifying the spiral as a sacred symbol is going to be all the explanation we get.
Similar to the cup and ring marks found on ancient menhirs in our world, I imagine. Moon and sun are my best guesses.

Last edited by GreysonCarlisle; 04-21-2019 at 01:42 PM.
  #291  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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I heard a very vague clue on a chat show, but am putting it in a spoiler box in case you don't want to read it.
SPOILER:
Kit Harington was on The Graham Norton Show on 12 April, which aired here in the US on 19 April. He mentioned that he took home, as a souvenir, a statue of his character that was made for the show. I have no idea what that means, whether it's a hint that he becomes king. It does seem to be a hint that things calm down enough in Westeros that people take the time to make statues of people.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 04-21-2019 at 02:00 PM.
  #292  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:14 PM
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I heard a very vague clue on a chat show, but am putting it in a spoiler box in case you don't want to read it.
SPOILER:
Kit Harington was on The Graham Norton Show on 12 April, which aired here in the US on 19 April. He mentioned that he took home, as a souvenir, a statue of his character that was made for the show. I have no idea what that means, whether it's a hint that he becomes king. It does seem to be a hint that things calm down enough in Westeros that people take the time to make statues of people.
SPOILER:
He might be just referring to the statue they made of him for one of the promos they released weeks ago. It had him, Sansa, and Arya walking through the Winterfell crypts past the statues of Lyanna and Ned and so on, and coming at the end to statues of themselves standing in a row. So it might not be a real scene at all, just advertising stuff.
  #293  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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That'd be my guess, SbS. Too soon to say, though.

Make your own Iron, er, Aluminum Throne!: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/21/us/ke...rnd/index.html
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