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  #51  
Old 04-16-2019, 04:35 PM
Brayne Ded is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Fruit View Post
Countries outside the EU negotiate trade treaties with the EU, not with countries within it, so in fact the UK would have to have a trade treaty with the EU, as a whole.

I suspect both the EU and UK would want to do that very quickly as they have huge trade flows between them, but very quickly in terms of agreements means, oh shall we say, a couple of years. In fact very like the time it has already taken to get to an agreement that isn't being accepted by the UK Parliament.
Really? What I have heard is that deals need to be negotiated with the individual countries. It could be that both of us are right and there are no arrangements that apply across the board.
  #52  
Old 04-16-2019, 04:43 PM
Brayne Ded is offline
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What a choice


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Originally Posted by PatrickLondon View Post
More to the point, Brexit would require us to make separate trade deals with all the other countries with which we currently have a deal as members of the EU.

And what sort of terms would those other countries expect from a partner that flounces out of a deal without any realistic plan to replace it? Chlorinated chicken would be the least of it.

(And in general, what damage is already being done to our credibility in any sort of international agreement?)
Seconded. Britain will lose credibility in all respects. And where exactly do the Leavers see their salvation, or the benefits from the Brexit? Glorious isolation is not a viable policy, economically or politically. And exactly which trade blocs want to pick up the slack? Such as it is; Britain not the economic powerhouse that it used to be.

Who to trade with? EFTA is small beer by any standards. The former colonies have little desire to cozy up, even Oztralia and NZ, who resented being dumped when Britain joined the EU. India? The PRC? Russia? Brazil? They all have trade plans of their own, and Britain is too far away and not of sufficient importance to them. The USA would be more than happy to jump in, but on its own terms. As the Great Orange Manchild said, "America First". That does not bode well for non-Americans.
  #53  
Old 04-16-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brayne Ded View Post
Really? What I have heard is that deals need to be negotiated with the individual countries. It could be that both of us are right and there are no arrangements that apply across the board.
The EU negotiates as a bloc. That's sort of the whole point of the enterprise.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:39 PM
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There's a difference between negotiating and ratification.

The EU negotiates as a bloc. However, if the deal is considered a "mixed agreement" once the deal is negotiated, it needs the approval of all the member states, because it is an international treaty. The EU doesn't have authority to bind member states to international treaties.

So the third country doesn't negotiate with each EU member, and EU members can't negotiate separate deals. The negotiation is between the third party and the EU.

But each EU member can block a "mixed" deal, since the EU won't agree to it coming into force until all members are on side.

For instance, the recent Canada - EU deal was negotiated between Canada and the EU. It then had to be ratified by each EU member, under their own domestic law for treaty ratification.

Most EU countries have given provisional agreement.

But one canton in Belgium objected to some aspect of the deal and it got held up for several months until Belgium was satisfied.

Apparently the stand-off has been resolved on an interim basis by referring Belgium's concerns to the European Court. The treaty is only provisionally in force, because of Belgium's opposition.

See the "Signatures and ratification" section of the wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...rade_Agreement
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Brayne Ded View Post
Really? What I have heard is that deals need to be negotiated with the individual countries. It could be that both of us are right and there are no arrangements that apply across the board.
This came up early in Trump’s presidency. He repeatedly attempted to negotiate directly with at least Germany only to be told repeatedly that they were unable to do so.
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