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  #51  
Old 08-02-2019, 02:06 PM
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The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’ Those people will never push the D button at the ballot box. They’ll always find some unicorn such as Gabbard, Ron Paul, Yang, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson.

I just hope like hell useless Gabbard doesn’t run third party to play the spoiler.
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Last edited by dalej42; 08-02-2019 at 02:06 PM.
  #52  
Old 08-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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@Czarcasm, steronz: And a little earlier in the same article:
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For many years in Kailua, the Gabbards’ known involvement with the Science of Identity went largely unremarked upon. It took an outsider, a 45-year-old special-education teacher and independent journalist Christine Gralow, who moved to the island just three years ago, to get curious enough to start asking questions. She mapped a web of relationships among devotees. “I had no idea,” she told me, “that this was going to lead me to Tulsi Gabbard.”

Soon after, she attended a town hall run by Tulsi. It was alarming for her to recognize so many faces from her research, and the whole production felt oddly staged.
For what it's worth.

Last edited by CarnalK; 08-02-2019 at 02:11 PM.
  #53  
Old 08-02-2019, 02:19 PM
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@Czarcasm, steronz: And a little earlier in the same article:

For what it's worth.
Big thanks to y'all for the info. It now seems to me that a person on the right might want her to win the Democratic Primary because she already comes equipped with a self-destruct button as far as bad PR is concerned.
  #54  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:10 PM
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Is defeating Trump a top concern for you?

Do you believe a candidate with crossover appeal would be best equipped to defeat Trump?

If yes to both of these, why don’t you care for whom your fellow countrymen might ditch Trump?
No and yes, because Trump's opponent will need to get a few center voters to change their votes. Are progressives going to stay home and let Trump win because their nominee isn't far enough left?
  #55  
Old 08-05-2019, 09:01 PM
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The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’
Exactly. Getting support from, say, 2% of Democrats and 1% of Republicans who are basically the crackpots of either party doesn’t encompass “crossover support.” That’s literally the definition of “fringe support.”

FFS, Donald Trump has more crossover support than Gabbard. Anyone who thinks Gabbard can beat Trump has no business contributing on matters of American politics.
  #56  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:44 PM
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Anyone who would see a reduction in personal affluence if the wars ended should be ignored by society completely. Unfortunately, our society is infested with them. That’s why Gabbard is slandered by so many near DC.
  #57  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:51 PM
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Exactly. Getting support from, say, 2% of Democrats and 1% of Republicans who are basically the crackpots of either party doesn’t encompass “crossover support.” That’s literally the definition of “fringe support.”

FFS, Donald Trump has more crossover support than Gabbard. Anyone who thinks Gabbard can beat Trump has no business contributing on matters of American politics.
So you are among those who think the best crossover support is on the basis of warmongering and mass imprisonment. I don’t think this is where the Dem party is moving fortunately.



As for the religious bigots, thank you for contributions. Perhaps you were also among those blessed with the hidden knowledge of the sooper secret Mooslim Obama.
  #58  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:55 PM
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The only crossover appeal she has is to nutjobs that constantly want to vote against ‘the system.’ Those people will never push the D button at the ballot box. They’ll always find some unicorn such as Gabbard, Ron Paul, Yang, Jill Stein, or Gary Johnson.
You’re right, Trump didn’t win running against a rigged system and Sanders gets no support either. We are living the Dream in Clinton’s USA.

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I just hope like hell useless Gabbard doesn’t run third party to play the spoiler.
Sounds like a good idea.
  #59  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:43 AM
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So who would you prefer, WillF -- a thoroughly anti-war progressive like Warren or Sanders, or the incompetent, erratic, alternately pro-and-anti-war president we currently have, if that's what the general election comes down to?
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  #60  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:57 AM
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So who would you prefer, WillF -- a thoroughly anti-war progressive like Warren or Sanders, or the incompetent, erratic, alternately pro-and-anti-war president we currently have, if that's what the general election comes down to?
I’d take either over Trump and pray Mitch McConnell held the senate. Not a hard question.
  #61  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:25 AM
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I’d take either over Trump and pray Mitch McConnell held the senate. Not a hard question.
Then it seems to me that Sanders and Warren do in fact have some crossover appeal, unless you think you are unique.
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:47 AM
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I'm puzzled by this argument that "crossover appeal" means "getting lip-service support from the fringes of two political wings, but zero support from the middle." It's also hard to apply the term "appeal" to someone who is polling at 1% of Democrats.

But let's just call this thread what it is: a new take on the occasional SDMB series of, "Wouldn't Party X, whom I vehemently oppose, do better if they remade themselves in the image of me?" The standard incarnation is more like, "Republicans should embrace national health care, gun control, and abortion," or "Dems should embrace nativism, arming teachers like Green Berets, and making coal mandatory for every household." It's refreshing to see a new twist, I guess.
  #63  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:15 AM
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More succinctly... appeal is a necessary component of crossover appeal.
  #64  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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Anyone who would see a reduction in personal affluence if the wars ended should be ignored by society completely. Unfortunately, our society is infested with them. That’s why Gabbard is slandered by so many near DC.
Which people "near DC" are "slandering" her? What exactly are they saying?

I'm familiar with people who've been saying nasty (though not necessarily slanderous) things about other candidates, perhaps most notably Biden and Warren. Gabbard...mostly being ignored, ISTM.
  #65  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:07 PM
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Then it seems to me that Sanders and Warren do in fact have some crossover appeal, unless you think you are unique.
I don’t think they do. Perhaps if they talked about foreign policy more, right wingers may become more comfortable with them. As it is, Gabbard promotes all of the same economic silliness they do, but they get no right wing support. Hell, they get no support from the hawkish centrists in the Dem party.

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I'm puzzled by this argument that "crossover appeal" means "getting lip-service support from the fringes of two political wings, but zero support from the middle." It's also hard to apply the term "appeal" to someone who is polling at 1% of Democrats.
It’s a different type of crossover appeal than appealing to the hawkish centrists in both parties, but is crossover appeal nonetheless.

Quote:
But let's just call this thread what it is: a new take on the occasional SDMB series of, "Wouldn't Party X, whom I vehemently oppose, do better if they remade themselves in the image of me?" The standard incarnation is more like, "Republicans should embrace national health care, gun control, and abortion," or "Dems should embrace nativism, arming teachers like Green Berets, and making coal mandatory for every household." It's refreshing to see a new twist, I guess.
No this is a thread about replacing Donald Trump with an antiwar president. Thanks for your participation.

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More succinctly... appeal is a necessary component of crossover appeal.
That can come with time. It is hard to stand out in a crowded field where there are so many progressives. At a certain point you become correct though.

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Which people "near DC" are "slandering" her? What exactly are they saying?

I'm familiar with people who've been saying nasty (though not necessarily slanderous) things about other candidates, perhaps most notably Biden and Warren. Gabbard...mostly being ignored, ISTM.
The mainstream pundits working out of DC, and of course NY and LA are engaging in grotesque displays. Look up the hitjob on the View for example. The neoconservative Post is in a continual state of apoplexy about her campaign.

In this thread, we have some very anti Gabbard residents of the imperial city and its suburbs.
  #66  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:11 PM
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I don’t think they do. Perhaps if they talked about foreign policy more, right wingers may become more comfortable with them. As it is, Gabbard promotes all of the same economic silliness they do, but they get no right wing support. Hell, they get no support from the hawkish centrists in the Dem party.
I think your willingness to support them over Trump is about as strong evidence of crossover appeal as anything, short of targeted comprehensive polling. If there are a few hundred thousand WillF's scattered through the swing states, then that would probably be enough to guarantee victory for Warren or Sanders.

Quote:
In this thread, we have some very anti Gabbard residents of the imperial city and its suburbs.
Is any and all criticism "slandering" to you? If not, then what specifically have I said that "slandered" Gabbard?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 08-06-2019 at 02:12 PM.
  #67  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:16 PM
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It’s a different type of crossover appeal than appealing to the hawkish centrists in both parties, but is crossover appeal nonetheless.

No this is a thread about replacing Donald Trump with an antiwar president. Thanks for your participation.
So you think there are a majority of Americans not in the center who would vote for Gabbard? Do you have any kind of support for this idea, other than saying pointing to people like Steve Bannon and David Duke on the right, and Pelosi (?) on the left, and saying, "Seeeee!?!?!" In other words, show me the math of how 1% of Democrats and 0% of Republicans adds up to someone defeating Trump.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Steven Bannon and Nancy Pelosi don't actually support Gabbard's run for the presidency.
  #68  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:30 PM
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In this thread, we have some very anti Gabbard residents of the imperial city and its suburbs.
BTW, judging by the polls, opposition or disinterest in Gabbard is one of the things that brings together Americans from every corner of this land.
  #69  
Old 08-06-2019, 04:58 PM
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- Believes there exists such a phenomenon as “Islamic terrorism”.
- Calls herself a hawk on wars against terrorism.
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Where does she seek war where he doesn’t?
Trump has expressed opposition to the ongoing counter-terror campaigns in most countries of North and Central Africa.* He directed drawdowns. AFRICOM did draw down those missions some. They managed to get an indefinite delay on some of the cuts he initially ordered.

So if she is generally a hawk (in that simplistic binary label) we should generally expect a commitment of more resources to Africa in general. It's a bit like whack a mole as terror groups gain and lose strength in various countries. SOCOM in recent years has been operating in about 130-140 countries annually with about 80 having a presence at any given time. Counter-terror has been one of the major pieces driving that operations tempo. We should probably expect the commitment of US special operations to a couple dozen countries for counter-terror during a 4 year Gabbard term.

We finally pulled out of Libya earlier this year. It was only a couple months before the five year anniversary of committing troops. Of course that was mostly because of the attack by Hifter and the Libyan Nation Army on the UN recognized government. AFRICOM at the time said it would be quick to reinsert forces when that operation stabilizes. We should probably assume, if Trump doesn't before then, that Gabbard will also lean towards reintroducing special operations forces into Libya based on her statements. I'm going to guess that she doesn't mention that specifically on the campaign trail. "I want to send ground troops to Libya" probably won't sell even if Obama did it first.

Last edited by DinoR; 08-06-2019 at 04:59 PM.
  #70  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:46 PM
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I've wondered, in another thread, why Gabbard seems to generate online support disproportionate to her real world support. Membership in, or sympathy from, a cult of some sort might well explain it.
  #71  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:58 PM
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I've wondered, in another thread, why Gabbard seems to generate online support disproportionate to her real world support. Membership in, or sympathy from, a cult of some sort might well explain it.
Her list of potential friends isn't typically called a cult(cite)
Quote:
Several experts who track websites and social media linked to the Kremlin have also seen what they believe may be the first stirrings of an upcoming Russian campaign of support for Gabbard.
Quote:
Since Gabbard announced her intention to run on Jan. 11, there have been at least 20 Gabbard stories on three major Moscow-based English-language websites affiliated with or supportive of the Russian government: RT, the Russian-owned TV outlet; Sputnik News, a radio outlet; and Russia Insider, a blog that experts say closely follows the Kremlin line. The CIA has called RT and Sputnik part of "Russia's state-run propaganda machine."
That was in Feb. I haven't seen and can't find any update on Russia links. When the clearly Russia linked media seemed to like her we can't completely discount the possibility that there's a Russia connection in the more covert channels.

Last edited by DinoR; 08-06-2019 at 07:59 PM.
  #72  
Old 08-06-2019, 10:37 PM
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...
The mainstream pundits working out of DC, and of course NY and LA are engaging in grotesque displays. Look up the hitjob on the View for example. The neoconservative Post is in a continual state of apoplexy about her campaign.

In this thread, we have some very anti Gabbard residents of the imperial city and its suburbs.
Okay, still no actual cites or examples...just loaded words like "grotesque." What specifically did they say on the View? What blatant and over-the-top lies does the Post tell about her? I'm not seeing much if indeed anything in this thread that would approach "slanderous." I'm thinking that iiandyiiii is correct and you're just mad that some people are criticizing her. Which is understandable, but hardly rises to the level of "slander."
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