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Old 09-24-2019, 02:05 PM
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Justin Trudeau [why no resignation?]


Can someone explain why he has not resigned in disgrace?

Last edited by Bone; 09-24-2019 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Added descriptive thread title
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:13 PM
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He's just not feelin' it bro.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:18 PM
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Maybe he's taking a cue from all of the American politicians (isn't it weird that that's plural?) who have come to declare that blackface is not something to resign over. He's Canadian, so you knew that he would, at least, apologize.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:20 PM
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Politicians generally don't resign when a small segment of the population hates them with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

That's just how they roll.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:37 PM
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There's a actual real consideration - he's running in an election that will be done in 2-3 weeks. He's the leader of a party that can not simply switch leadership horses in the middle of a 40 day election campaign. I suppose he could publicly state he would resign following the election and allow someone within his party to try and wrangle a house majority. That however would lead to questions of legislative legitimacy for the new government crippling anything they'd care to attempt.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:37 PM
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Can someone explain why he has not resigned in disgrace?
Dead girl/ Live boy has not happened and someone timed it very well that its at the beginning of the election cycle. The only reason that I could see if the lib party wanted to insist on him resigning, was if he was headed into Kim Campbell or Kathline Wynne levels of Election disaster.

Besides, where else is he gonna go and who would even think of hiring him for a board of directors at this time.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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For anyone that actually pays attention and cares about the issue of racism - voting for Trudeau through their local Liberal candidate is the most logical action. Only the Liberals or Conservatives have a realistic chance of leading the country this election - the Conservatives are happy to weaponize blackface as a instrument of scandal but if elected will not likely be doing anything meaningful to discourage racism. More likely the opposite based on the positions of many candidates.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:00 PM
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Maybe he's taking a cue from all of the American politicians (isn't it weird that that's plural?) who have come to declare that blackface is not something to resign over.
America has more governors who have worn blackface than black governors.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:39 PM
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Well holy crap!
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:27 PM
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Because there's no reason for him to resign over something silly that he did eighteen years ago, and moreover something that was not even racist in the sense usually associated with blackface. I hardly see dressing up as Aladdin for an Arabian Nights themed party as offensive.

Justin Trudeau is clearly the exact opposite of a racist; he's pretty much the poster boy for political correctness. At least seven of his Cabinet members are visible minorities, and he also made a point of ensuring that around half of his Cabinet were women. The typical stigma of blackface arising from the American racial context has no relevance here. Those who are spinning this Aladdin "brownface" thing as some kind of "scandal" are mostly the usual Trudeau haters who are doing it purely for political reasons. There are far more actual racists in Scheer's camp than in Trudeau's. Just think of some of the loony backbenchers who were emboldened during the Harper years.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:47 PM
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Because there's no reason for him to resign over something silly that he did eighteen years ago, and moreover something that was not even racist in the sense usually associated with blackface. I hardly see dressing up as Aladdin for an Arabian Nights themed party as offensive.

Justin Trudeau is clearly the exact opposite of a racist; he's pretty much the poster boy for political correctness. At least seven of his Cabinet members are visible minorities, and he also made a point of ensuring that around half of his Cabinet were women. The typical stigma of blackface arising from the American racial context has no relevance here. Those who are spinning this Aladdin "brownface" thing as some kind of "scandal" are mostly the usual Trudeau haters who are doing it purely for political reasons. There are far more actual racists in Scheer's camp than in Trudeau's. Just think of some of the loony backbenchers who were emboldened during the Harper years.
I agree. Not every country in the world runs around in hysterics every time something that happened in someone's impetuous youth comes to light. But we do, because we're apparently all snowflakes; example numero uno: Al Franken.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:35 PM
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I agree. Not every country in the world runs around in hysterics every time something that happened in someone's impetuous youth comes to light. But we do, because we're apparently all snowflakes; example numero uno: Al Franken.
Al Franken wasn't an "impetuous youth" when the alleged events occurred. He was in his 50's.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:39 PM
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And Al Franken's misbehavior wasn't just dressing up in a racially offensive caricature.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:49 PM
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And Al Franken's misbehavior wasn't just dressing up in a racially offensive caricature.
Right, it was "only" groping unwilling women.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:57 PM
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Right, it was "only" groping unwilling women.
I thought there was simply a photo of him miming a grope - from a distance. I guess there were some other more serious accusations.

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Old 09-24-2019, 09:09 PM
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I thought there was simply a photo of him miming a grope - from a distance. I guess there were some other more serious accusations.
So you thought one thing but guess a contradictory thing. Thanks for the insight into your brain if nothing else.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:51 PM
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Maybe we can just all agree that what Trudeau did does not rise to anywhere near the level of what Franken did, and if you want even more digressions, what Al Franken did doesn't rise to anywhere near the level of what people like Harvey Weinstein did, who deserve the full consequences that they're getting.

But back to Trudeau. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, and as I said before, is pretty much a non-story largely being promulgated by Trudeau-haters for political purposes. It originally surfaced in American media, where blackface has a more sordid legacy (like Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam allegedly in blackface beside a guy in a KKK robe). But all that Trudeau did, way back in his youth, was dress up as Aladdin for an Arabian Nights themed costume party. Frankly I don't even think he needed to apologize for it, let alone resign.

And incidentally, one of the reasons some conservatives hate Trudeau is ironically because he's so politically correct, making sure to have all those dark-skinned minorities and women in his Cabinet, enacting generous immigration policies and personally welcoming Syrian refugees to Canada, etc. He's not a racist, he's an anti-racist, and so actual racists and xenophobes despise him. There is a palpable hypocrisy when they try to take him down over the "brownface" Aladdin incident.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:02 PM
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Can someone explain why he has not resigned in disgrace?
I understand that in a show of North American unity PM Trudeau and President T-rump are planning a joint resignation in Niagara Falls. No word yet on whether Mexican President Obrador will join them for La Trifecta.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:28 PM
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Maybe we can just all agree that what Trudeau did does not rise to anywhere near the level of what Franken did, and if you want even more digressions, what Al Franken did doesn't rise to anywhere near the level of what people like Harvey Weinstein did, who deserve the full consequences that they're getting.

But back to Trudeau. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, and as I said before, is pretty much a non-story largely being promulgated by Trudeau-haters for political purposes. It originally surfaced in American media, where blackface has a more sordid legacy (like Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam allegedly in blackface beside a guy in a KKK robe). But all that Trudeau did, way back in his youth, was dress up as Aladdin for an Arabian Nights themed costume party. Frankly I don't even think he needed to apologize for it, let alone resign.

And incidentally, one of the reasons some conservatives hate Trudeau is ironically because he's so politically correct, making sure to have all those dark-skinned minorities and women in his Cabinet, enacting generous immigration policies and personally welcoming Syrian refugees to Canada, etc. He's not a racist, he's an anti-racist, and so actual racists and xenophobes despise him. There is a palpable hypocrisy when they try to take him down over the "brownface" Aladdin incident.
This. Exactly.
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Old 09-25-2019, 09:22 AM
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I understand that in a show of North American unity PM Trudeau and President T-rump are planning a joint resignation in Niagara Falls. No word yet on whether Mexican President Obrador will join them for La Trifecta.
It would be a worthy North American sacrifice. No need for the Mexican President to involve himself. I'm assuming barrels will be involved.

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Old 09-25-2019, 10:14 AM
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But all that Trudeau did, way back in his youth, was dress up as Aladdin for an Arabian Nights themed costume party.
I haven't been following too closely, but didn't they find 3 or 4 separate incidents of him in blackface?
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:24 PM
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:25 PM
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:56 PM
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Can someone explain why he has not resigned in disgrace?
Politicians don't do that anymore. It's a new era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup
Justin Trudeau is clearly the exact opposite of a racist; he's pretty much the poster boy for political correctness. At least seven of his Cabinet members are visible minorities
Some of his best friends, huh?

Trudeau probably isn't a racist. His propensity for wearing blackface was, to be honest, really weird; who the hell does that as much as he apparently did? Jesus. The guy showed up to a formal event in blackface. Who the fuck does that? Are you SURE he isn't a racist? But maybe he's just a clueless doofus.

Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, though, his political correctness bona fides are, let's be honest, all sizzle and no steak. He's very good at talking a good game, but he hasn't done much substantive. "Look, he personally welcomed Syrian refugees" is a PR stunt. Canada's actual actions regarding immigration policy did not really change in any substantial way with this government.

Trudeau is basically a seat warmer. These days, I guess maybe that's not the worst thing.
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:18 PM
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He's very good at talking a good game, but he hasn't done much substantive. "Look, he personally welcomed Syrian refugees" is a PR stunt. Canada's actual actions regarding immigration policy did not really change in any substantial way with this government.

Trudeau is basically a seat warmer. These days, I guess maybe that's not the worst thing.

The numbers would suggest otherwise.


https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...lement-canada/


He was elected on October 19, 2015, and in 2016, we let in over twice as many refugees as the previous year, and about 4 times as many as more typical years of the Harper era. That year was a peak, but since then, the numbers have been consistently 2-3 times higher than during the Harper years.

It's not just the written policy that matters, it's how the government acts to implement those policies. It was pretty clearly demonstrated that Harper encouraged the people doing the work to drag their feet for as long as possible when evaluating these refugees, while Trudeau didn't. Now, lots of people don't like the fact that we've let so many in, but to claim there's been no difference is ludicrous. The difference in attitude is particularly stark when you compare it to the US numbers in the Trump Era.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:21 PM
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The numbers would suggest otherwise.


https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...lement-canada/


He was elected on October 19, 2015, and in 2016, we let in over twice as many refugees as the previous year and about 4 times as many as more typical years of the Harper era.
1. Which was a small number still, and
2. Was, of course, largely because the Syrian refugee crisis peaked at that time.

The number of refugees accepted into Canada - which all major parties promised to increase - was dependent upon the refugees being available to come. As all parties were going to allow more refugees to settle in Canada, the number was going to go up anyway. You'll note the Liberals actually did not meet their promise of fifty thousand. That's not because they suddenly didn't want to meet it; there just were not enough suitable candidates.

Honestly, this is one of Trudeau's more laudable policies and it's still not really all that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Again, the relatively modest numbers aren't his fault, though.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:31 PM
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1. Which was a small number still, and
2. Was, of course, largely because the Syrian refugee crisis peaked at that time.

The number of refugees accepted into Canada - which all major parties promised to increase - was dependent upon the refugees being available to come. As all parties were going to allow more refugees to settle in Canada, the number was going to go up anyway. You'll note the Liberals actually did not meet their promise of fifty thousand. That's not because they suddenly didn't want to meet it; there just were not enough suitable candidates.

Honestly, this is one of Trudeau's more laudable policies and it's still not really all that impressive in the grand scheme of things. Again, the relatively modest numbers aren't his fault, though.

The "relatively modest" numbers are because we're a relatively modest country. We'll never be able to take in all the people who would like to come here, but if you can't see the difference between 10,000 per year and 30,000 per year, you're being wilfully blind. Particularly when you note that we're now taking in even more than the US is taking in.

And it doesn't matter how much Harper promised to take in, when what he actually did was to make it as difficult as possible for people to be accepted.
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Old 09-25-2019, 02:36 PM
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Al Franken wasn't an "impetuous youth" when the alleged events occurred. He was in his 50's.
Compare him to Henry Hyde, who was a callow and naïve 41 when he committed his own "youthful indiscretion".
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:23 PM
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Some of his best friends, huh?
That's silly. Cabinet is about power. Being an MP is certainly something, but Cabinet is the seat of power. Having a diverse Cabinet is not symbolism or tokenism, if that's what you're implying. A diverse cabinet is a clear demonstration that you don't have to be a white male in this country to be at the heart of power. It shows that the single most powerful group in the government is representative of all Canadians.



Quote:
Look, he personally welcomed Syrian refugees" is a PR stunt. Canada's actual actions regarding immigration policy did not really change in any substantial way with this government.
Even if it was PR (and I don't agree that it was just that), PR is important. The symbolic actions of the PM help to tell the world what kind of country Canada is.

Compare:

(1) the PR of a country's leader going to an airport to greet refugees from a war zone, hand out coats against a cold Canadian winter, and say "You're home and you're safe."

(2) the PR of a country's leader saying "Build the wall to keep them out" and pictures of children in cages.

PR shapes public opinion and public values.

I'll take (1) over (2) as the representation of my values, and the message to send to the world about my country.
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:39 PM
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Just one more thing in addition to the excellent points already made -- and thank you Northern Piper for the insightful comment about the diversity of Trudeau's Cabinet.
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Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, though, his political correctness bona fides are, let's be honest, all sizzle and no steak. He's very good at talking a good game, but he hasn't done much substantive. "Look, he personally welcomed Syrian refugees" is a PR stunt. Canada's actual actions regarding immigration policy did not really change in any substantial way with this government.
You seem to have forgotten some of the things that really went on during Harper's tenure in relation to refugees ...

Harper shut Canada’s door during Syria’s agony: Editorial


Syrian Refugee Crisis: Ottawa Still Slow To Act On Applications

It was only with the Trudeau government that things really started to move, with a commitment IIRC to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees in the first year. I think they fell behind briefly but soon met and exceeded this number.

Neither Trudeau's commitment to refugee resettlement nor his racially diverse Cabinet are token or symbolic actions, nor in any sane interpretation could they be seen as the actions of a racist.
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Old 09-28-2019, 03:52 PM
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I do not seriously think Trudeau is a racist. Honestly, few people are outright racists. Andrew Scheer isn't a racist, either (though he might be a homophobe.) I've no reason to believe Jagmeet Singh is a racist, or Elizabeth May.

Trudeau's primary weakness is simply that he is not very smart; he is, easily, the least intellectually gifted prime minister in my lifetime.

He might still be the best choice, though.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:01 PM
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Just one more thing in addition to the excellent points already made -- and thank you Northern Piper for the insightful comment about the diversity of Trudeau's Cabinet.

You seem to have forgotten some of the things that really went on during Harper's tenure in relation to refugees ...

Harper shut Canada’s door during Syria’s agony: Editorial


Syrian Refugee Crisis: Ottawa Still Slow To Act On Applications

It was only with the Trudeau government that things really started to move, with a commitment IIRC to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees in the first year. I think they fell behind briefly but soon met and exceeded this number.

Neither Trudeau's commitment to refugee resettlement nor his racially diverse Cabinet are token or symbolic actions, nor in any sane interpretation could they be seen as the actions of a racist.
Seriously. You link to a Toronto Star Op-Ed and an article about staffing requirements?
Pffff.
As RickJay said, no real change in immigration policies exist here.
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:10 PM
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I was hoping he would show up at the press conference in blackface and apologized for nothing as it's just makeup. I would have.
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