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  #101  
Old 12-04-2018, 07:47 PM
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We'd send him out for chicory coffee, catfish and some chaw.
  #102  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:53 AM
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Not to hijack the thread, but Red Wiggler, if the GOP were smart, they'd have learned from what happened to them in California after championing Prop. 187 and stop being anti-immigrant. Hispanics in America are natural conservative voters: strong on family, great at small business, and generally conservative socially. But it's far more important to pander to the xenophobes than to grow the party's base.
Isn't that exactly what they came up with back in 2012 in their "autopsy report"? Instead, the went hard on the "Mexicans are rapists" with Trump. Methinks the "base" doesn't want to share with "those brown people", even if they share many of the same values.


On topic - Republicans and absentee ballot fraud - where have I heard that one before? And why don't they seem concerned with stopping things actually effecting elections instead of making it harder for brown/black people to vote?
  #103  
Old 12-05-2018, 06:37 AM
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Nitpick: they want to affect elections. They don't actually want to effect elections, at least in NC.
  #104  
Old 12-05-2018, 07:30 AM
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Interesting article interviewing one of the workers. She talks about being paid only in cash, employees being so high at work they're passing out on top of computers, about witnessing for ballots whose voters she never met. Another worker refuses to talk because she doesn't want to say something that's going to land her in prison.

I don't particular want the low-level workers to spend time behind bars, but it really, really, really sounds like Harris himself ought to be facing a federal indictment. And if he spent the rest of his life behind bars, maybe that'd be a wake-up call to other folks wanting to pervert elections.
  #105  
Old 12-05-2018, 07:55 AM
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Robeson county has had a lot of unusual things going on for long while. It's a rare US county where the majority of people are non white - only 32% are white. 38% are Native American and 30% are black.

It's home to the Lumbee Indian tribe which is not an official federal tribe so they cannot get most federal benefits other tribes get. They have been trying to be official for a long time but have not been successful yet. Some claim they want official status to open a casino since they are right on I-95. They say they will agree to not open a casino if they are made official.
  #106  
Old 12-05-2018, 06:32 PM
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Is Mark Harris participating in the pre-swearing in administrative stuff that the other newly elected members of Congress are doing?
  #107  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:59 PM
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Is Mark Harris participating in the pre-swearing in administrative stuff that the other newly elected members of Congress are doing?
I'm not finding stuff that he is, and given that the election isn't certified, it'd seem pretty weird for him to do so.

The creep behind these shenanigans appears to have committed similar crimes in previous elections. This is important because there's a narrative that this is a freak occurrence, a lone wolf guy. But it looks like Republicans have hired him over and over again specifically to achieve certain results in absentee ballots. The chances that they'd hire this consultant for this purpose without suspecting shady activity seems really, really low to me.

Calls for a new election are growing. I wonder how many folks who voted for Harris the first time would be comfortable casting another ballot for him--even if we limit it to people who cast their first ballot for him intentionally.
  #108  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:04 PM
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Oh, and wanna know something keen?

The elections board is dissolving, right, because of other shenanigans. So on Monday, Republicans introduced a new bill, proposing a new structure. They want to put the board under the control of a partisan actor:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the bill
In the even-numbered year, the chair shall be a member of the political party with the second highest number of registered affiliates as reflected by the latest registration statistics published by the State Board.
Note that the "even-numbered year" means the year in which nearly all elections are held, right? So why, given Republican control of the state legislature, would they give the chair to the party with the "second highest number of registered affiliates"? Wouldn't that be Democrats?

Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the article
Because registered Democrats consistently–and by leaps and bounds–outnumber registered Republicans in North Carolina–and there’s no indication party affiliation numbers would change to favor Republicans any time soon.

In fact, Democrats have such a massive registration advantage over their GOP counterparts that “unaffiliated” voters are actually the second largest grouping of voters in North Carolina. But since the proposed law specifies “political party,” this effectively means the GOP would always control county election boards during the years when federal elections occur.
These guys are too much.
  #109  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:00 AM
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Nate Silver: "We're changing our rating on this race to Lean Prison."
  #110  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:25 AM
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Nate Silver: "We're changing our rating on this race to Lean Prison."
That is spectacular.
  #111  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:41 AM
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This thread needs a link to Joe Bruno's Twitter feed. Now it has one.

ETA: It's clear from his station's reporting that this absentee ballot operation was going on in Robeson County as well.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 12-06-2018 at 07:45 AM.
  #112  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:54 AM
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all that cheating and they just barely won. Maybe they were following the NASCAR saying if you are not cheating, you are not winning.

Reminds me of the joke from JFK's father in 1960, something about he was not going to pay for a landslide .
  #113  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:10 PM
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Any newly elected House member can object to the swearing-in of Republican Mark Harris amid his election scandal

North Carolina GOP director open to new election in disputed House race. It's looking more and more likely that's going to have to happen, and maybe with a new Republican candidate.
  #114  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:59 PM
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Republican Officials Had Early Warnings of Voting Irregularities in North Carolina--an article detailing previous concerns about this particular fraudster, concerns covered up by the state party in the interest of party unity.

Similar operations in the Western part of the state, which astonishingly enough were never investigated by the Republican district attorney.

Move over, Chicago. Back off, Russia. North Carolina is gonna show you how election fraud is done.
  #115  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:09 PM
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Move over, Chicago. Back off, Russia. North Carolina is gonna show you how election fraud is done.
We've a got a 20 person mayoral race coming up. We'll take the crown back.
  #116  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:09 PM
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Are we ready for the UN observers, like in any other banana republic?
  #117  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:21 PM
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We've a got a 20 person mayoral race coming up. We'll take the crown back.
please sweet Jesus take the crown back
  #118  
Old 12-07-2018, 08:38 AM
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Harris' post-election FEC report is available, and rather interesting. His campaign spent $34K on "Reimbursement Payment for Bladen Absentee, Early Voting Poll Workers; Reimbursement Door to Door" to the Red Dome Group, Leslie McCrae Dowless' employer, and another nearly $8K to Red Dome for "Robocalls and Robeson mailer."
  #119  
Old 12-08-2018, 04:08 AM
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This has apparently been going one for years. Check out this video (I don't know if an online transcript is available).
https://on.msnbc.com/2L1UpGJ?fbclid=...TvrKnrCwKcPOVM
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  #120  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:38 PM
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And still no tweets from the Donald in Chief about the rampant election fraud in North Carolina? Funny how fast he was to accuse Democrats in the Florida elections with no evidence, but here the evidence is piling up yet he keeps his trap shut.
  #121  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:49 PM
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You accuse people of the things you'd like to do.
  #122  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:38 PM
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More information rolling in as additional people are contacted by investigators regarding their ballots. This includes witnesses to the absentee vote who weren't there when the absentee ballot was filled out and put in the envelope (NC requires this be witnessed by two people, who sign the envelope). In addition, some envelopes were returned for having not had the required number of witnesses, despite being picked up by the same non-relative as picked up other ballots that did have the required number. All of whom, of course, operated under the direction of the "person of interest" in the investigation.

If the state GOP is really smart, they'll throw in the towel on this and request a new election before the Democrats in Congress get up a real head of steam over refusing to seat Mr. Harris. Given that the same shenanigans went on in the primary, I think they ought to get Harris to give up his nomination so they can nominate someone clean.
  #123  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:41 PM
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I read something earlier about it not being possible for him to not be on the ballot unless he moves out of the state. It's a weird rule for re-elections and nominations.

If there is a new election, I think the GOP will get slaughtered.
  #124  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:37 AM
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I read something earlier about it not being possible for him to not be on the ballot unless he moves out of the state. It's a weird rule for re-elections and nominations.

If there is a new election, I think the GOP will get slaughtered.
I hope so. I mean, it looks like the GOP might've lost the first time if the election had been fair. The second election will suffer from being a special election (lower Dem turnout usually), but I'm guessing there'll be a pretty big push from both parties to emphasize the election, AND from Dems to ensure that it's fair, so that will hopefully make the difference.
  #125  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:40 AM
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Every single congressman counts. 236 is better than 235.

With luck, it'll force a review of procedures all through North Carolina. That can only help us.
  #126  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:02 AM
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The second election will suffer from being a special election (lower Dem turnout usually), but I'm guessing there'll be a pretty big push from both parties to emphasize the election, AND from Dems to ensure that it's fair, so that will hopefully make the difference.
The second and third clauses are true, so who knows what the turnout will be this time, but the recent special elections have swung immensely toward the Democratic side. I'm not sure how much of that was the GOP pushing too hard with Trumpism or how much is lack of name recognition in the new GOP candidates, but I don't think the Democrats have a built-in problem per se in special elections in this political climate*, although again each election is different.

*I almost freudian-slipped that as "slimate".
  #127  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:04 AM
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You accuse people of the things you'd like to do.
I accuse you of going to Disneyland!
  #128  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:33 AM
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And indeed I did! In June for 10 days as a graduation gift for my oldest. Me, my youngest, my oldest and some of her friends in cabin and Fort Wilderness.

That was a lot of kids to manage on my own.
  #129  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:03 PM
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Admirable fortitude if not wisdom.
  #130  
Old 12-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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You forgot foolishness, elucidator. But you're from Texas. I can forgive you mistaking it for fortitude.
  #131  
Old 12-09-2018, 02:15 PM
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You accuse people of the things you'd like to do.
I accuse you of having a torrid affair with Keira Knightley, securing the impeachment, conviction and imprisonment of President Trump, and winning the lottery. Hah!
  #132  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:33 AM
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Every single congressman counts.
Congressperson. Especially given that a majority of the new Dem Congresspersons are women.
  #133  
Old 12-11-2018, 08:26 AM
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I'm seeing reports that Harris himself is calling for a new election. Well and good. I suspect that every election board in the state (perhaps in the USA) is reconsidering how absentee ballots are managed. Following the lead of the President, who allows buddies from Mar a Lago to formulate policy for the VA, how about if we organize a panel of contributors here to meet in Raleigh to help the Sec of State determine and issue a policy on absentee ballots that involves not just trying to make the ballots secure, but also to do return visits to a few percent of the people requesting ballots to be sure their voting wishes were properly secured and recorded. Any problems uncovered, look for a culprit and throw their heinie in the lockup.
  #134  
Old 12-11-2018, 08:29 AM
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You accuse people of the things you'd like to do.
actually, more to the point, to follow the Nazi playbook, you accuse people of doing what you are already doing, especially if it is an illegal action.
  #135  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:14 AM
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I'm seeing reports that Harris himself is calling for a new election. Well and good.
Well and good--but I refuse to believe that Harris is shocked that gambling is going on here. Harris hired this guy twice, and there were plenty of complaints after the primary about shenanigans connected with this guy. Harris is trying to distance himself, but he has the stench of the crime all over him.
  #136  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:12 AM
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Well and good--but I refuse to believe that Harris is shocked that gambling is going on here. Harris hired this guy twice, and there were plenty of complaints after the primary about shenanigans connected with this guy. Harris is trying to distance himself, but he has the stench of the crime all over him.
I think Harris' play is that if the NCSBE calls for a new election, he's the GOP nominee since the primary results have been certified. And he just might get enough people voting for him in the special, simply because he's a Republican.

I expect he'd prefer that they do that before the House of Representatives refuses to seat him, because if the House doesn't seat him, there's a redo of the whole shebang, including the primaries, and he'd almost surely lose the primary now.
  #137  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:15 AM
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I think Harris' play is that if the NCSBE calls for a new election, he's the GOP nominee since the primary results have been certified. And he just might get enough people voting for him in the special, simply because he's a Republican.

I expect he'd prefer that they do that before the House of Representatives refuses to seat him, because if the House doesn't seat him, there's a redo of the whole shebang, including the primaries, and he'd almost surely lose the primary now.
That's kind of interesting. For the Republican party it'd be much better to have a redo of the primary, because Harris, as the first Congressional candidate in decades to have won through unambiguous election fraud, comes to a special election with serious baggage. They have a decent chance of winning a special election with a different candidate, less so with Harris. I wonder if the GOP will recognize this and push for a new primary.
  #138  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:30 AM
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That's kind of interesting. For the Republican party it'd be much better to have a redo of the primary, because Harris, as the first Congressional candidate in decades to have won through unambiguous election fraud, comes to a special election with serious baggage. They have a decent chance of winning a special election with a different candidate, less so with Harris. I wonder if the GOP will recognize this and push for a new primary.
Wonder if there's a way they can retroactively decertify the primary results. If not, AFAICT, the only way for a new primary would be for NCSBE to certify, and have the House refuse to seat Harris.
  #139  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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For a moment there over the past couple of days, there was a push by the NC GOP to change the law so that a new election would require a redo of the primaries as well, but apparently it already fell apart. If the NCSBE invalidates the election, it'll be a straight-up rematch.

'Tis the election season to be jolly...
  #140  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:29 AM
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Oh, it gets even BETTER:

Apparently, in Bladen County, they counted up the early votes to see who was winning, then leaked those totals to non-election officials.

NC GOP says a re-vote is definitely required, if that turns out to be true.

Makes you wonder how long this crap has gone on in that area that they were so blatant about it?

Charlotte Observer article

An even more in depth article

Last edited by DSYoungEsq; 12-12-2018 at 11:31 AM.
  #141  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:56 PM
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Their saving grace. When in comes to cunning and covert skulduggery, they suck at it.
  #142  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:58 PM
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Isn't it also possible that they hold a new election, Harris wins, and then the House still refuses to seat him?
  #143  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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Isn't it also possible that they hold a new election, Harris wins, and then the House still refuses to seat him?
It's technically possible, of course. But why would the House do that, unless there was more skulduggery in the new election that called its legitimacy into question?

Which seems unlikely, because the redo won't be one of 470 elections for Congress, not to mention the thousands of state-level races last month, but just one election all by itself that everyone will be watching closely.
  #144  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:34 PM
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The house, absent some evidence of fraud on the part of the commission, will seat whoever the election commission certifies
  #145  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:41 PM
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538's article on the subject. I note that the FBI is involved, which is something I was curious about but don't think I asked: at what point does election fraud violate federal, not state, law? Is the fact that it's an election for a federal office significant, or are elections purely a state matter no matter what?

The biggest takeaway from this, IMO, should be that folks turn attention away from the non-issue of in-person electoral fraud and toward the very real danger of organized fraud by absentee ballot. Given this guy's continued success in Bladen County, and given stories I've been hearing about similar shenanigans in Western NC (I'm having trouble digging up links now--do others have them?), it seems really likely that this isn't the only dude committing these crimes. We need to get rid of this sort of thing.
  #146  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:06 PM
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info on vote buying in Western NC

https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion...ylink=hpdigest
  #147  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:30 PM
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The biggest takeaway from this, IMO, should be that folks turn attention away from the non-issue of in-person electoral fraud and toward the very real danger of organized fraud by absentee ballot.
Can the fix for organized absentee voter fraud be set up in such a way so as to disenfranchise Democratic voters? If not then I don't think that you will get a whole lot of traction from Republican law makers.
  #148  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:04 PM
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More NC Elections Shenanigans


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
Can the fix for organized absentee voter fraud be set up in such a way so as to disenfranchise Democratic voters? If not then I don't think that you will get a whole lot of traction from Republican law makers.


Wasn’t that what they did in this case? I thought they were collecting absentee ballots in areas with likely high Democrat voting via absentee ballot and then just not turning them in. I thought that was partially how this came to light - the number of absentee ballots requested and not turned in was abnormally high. Am I understanding this correctly?

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 12-13-2018 at 04:05 PM.
  #149  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:12 PM
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Wasn’t that what they did in this case? I thought they were collecting absentee ballots in areas with likely high Democrat voting via absentee ballot and then just not turning them in. I thought that was partially how this came to light - the number of absentee ballots requested and not turned in was abnormally high. Am I understanding this correctly?
That's what they're doing. I think Buck is saying that Republicans will only stop absentee voter fraud if they can do so in a way that also disenfranchises Democratic voters.
  #150  
Old 12-13-2018, 05:36 PM
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How about credit rating? Nothing racist about that!
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