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  #51  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Do the math.

It takes 67 votes in Senate to convict after impeachment. If the Democrats win every seat up for election this fall, they end up with 58 seats.

The (political) evidence we've seen so far suggests that any Republican who openly opposes Trump would be defeated in the next primary election. Unless you can show me 9 incumbent Senate Republicans who are ready to end their careers, discussion is pointless.
I think it's unlikely we'll see an impeachment. But right now, we have a Congress that's bending over backwards to enable Trump. I'd like to see a Congress that would hold Trump responsible for his actions. If nothing else, we need a Congress that is willing to show the American people how Trump is failing as President. Let the truth be seen so he'll be voted out in 2020.
  #52  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:27 PM
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I disagree on SCOTUS. I'm just going on body language here, but [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbPme9mJDs"]I disagree completely. Michael Pence believes he is an old testament-style patriarch placed by God in a position of power for the purpose of cleansing the nation. There is reason to believe that he was sexually abused by an older brother throughout childhood. He has failed to differentiate child abuse from consensual adult relationships and has openly stated that he would like to hang all gay men.
Emphasis added. I thought he stated that he was a well hung, openly gay man. Did I misread that quote?
  #53  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:32 PM
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  #54  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:45 PM
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So what? Impeachment can be for anything.
No shit Sherlock.

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It's entirely possible for Pence to be a conspirator. Unless you believe he was in the dark on the campaign shenanigans.
Maybe Mueller is looking into that.
You said that VP Pence has committed crimes, plural. Now you're backpedaling with words like "possible" and "maybe".

Do you have a cite that the Vice-President has committed any crimes?
  #55  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:23 PM
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It was over for Trump when:

He went after McCain
Went after gold star family
Grab the Pussy tape came out
etc.

He's like John Gotti, the teflon don
  #56  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:25 PM
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Pence isn't getting impeached. He's a career politician that won't even go out to eat with a woman that isn't his wife. The only allegations against him are so flimsy that you could see your gramma's hoo haa through them. Not to mention how politically untenable that would be. Impeaching Trump is itself a major step that is unlikely, but you're starting to talk revolution if you impeach Pence for showing up late to a meeting where a memo about firing Comey was read. You might not like his stances and I'm not saying that he's as clean as Mormon underwear, but if he did anything, it's not even close to rising to impeachable levels. Besides, let's pretend absolute best case scenario where Democrats win every single seat up for reelection including Mississippi, Wyoming and Utah (unlikely, in fact, it's even possible due to the unluckiness of the map this year and maybe likely that Republicans pick up seats in the Senate, not lose them, but we'll pretend.) That would give them 58 seats in the Senate and they need 67 to impeach. Which 9 Republicans exactly do you think are jumping ship to convict Pence of being in the same room where a memo was read?
  #57  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:42 PM
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WRT the SCOTUS and a ruling on a subpoena from Mueller, I agree that Trump would lose even with Kavanaugh on the court. It’s not, however because I think Kavanaugh would rule against Trump. IMHO the deciding vote would be Roberts. I think Roberts cares to much about the country to let things get to the point where Trump is placed above the law for partisan reasons.
It won't be that close. It'll be 8-1 or 7-2. Kavanaugh supposedly has some record that indicates he might vote against in certain circumstances, I haven't looked at it closely. The Coke can will stay awake long enough to dissent. Mueller won't issue a subpoena he doesn't think will get as close to a unanimous vote as possible.

I still want to see this happen and have Trump defy it. Very badly. It's the only thing that's going to stop him.
  #58  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:45 PM
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Pence was sure quick to duck and cover when the whole conspiracy with Russia thing started coming out when Manafort was the campaign chairman.

Cohen's admission of guilt is one thing, Mueller putting all his cards on the table is another. Keep in mind, that Mueller has the best tax crime forensics experts on his team, and access to Trumps tax records. Don't be surprised when Mueller can show conclusively that a) The Trump organization illegally laundered billions of dollars in Russian oligarch money, b) there is fire behind all the Russian conspiracy smoke, c) congressional lapdogs are also at least peripherally and tacitly complicit in the Russian conspiracy, and finally d) Trump is not in the billionaire club
  #59  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:59 PM
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Mueller won't know how much wealth Trump has.
  #60  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:20 PM
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Mueller won't know how much wealth Trump has.
He doesn't have to account for all of Trump's money. He just has to look for any connections between Trump and Russian donors.
  #61  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:23 PM
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He doesn't have to account for all of Trump's money. He just has to look for any connections between Trump and Russian donors.
Read item d) in post 58.
  #62  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:29 PM
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Pence isn't getting impeached. He's a career politician that won't even go out to eat with a woman that isn't his wife. The only allegations against him are so flimsy that you could see your gramma's hoo haa through them. Not to mention how politically untenable that would be. Impeaching Trump is itself a major step that is unlikely, but you're starting to talk revolution if you impeach Pence for showing up late to a meeting where a memo about firing Comey was read. You might not like his stances and I'm not saying that he's as clean as Mormon underwear, but if he did anything, it's not even close to rising to impeachable levels. Besides, let's pretend absolute best case scenario where Democrats win every single seat up for reelection including Mississippi, Wyoming and Utah (unlikely, in fact, it's even possible due to the unluckiness of the map this year and maybe likely that Republicans pick up seats in the Senate, not lose them, but we'll pretend.) That would give them 58 seats in the Senate and they need 67 to impeach. Which 9 Republicans exactly do you think are jumping ship to convict Pence of being in the same room where a memo was read?
I agree Pence won't be impeached. While I consider a lot of what Pence has said and done to be immoral, I personally doubt he's ever done anything illegal. Pence is a smart man and an experienced politician; he knows how to make money from politics while staying inside the letter of the law. And even if he has ever broken the law, I'm sure he made sure to do so in a way that will be impossible to prove.

Trying to impeach Pence without a smoking gun would be political suicide for the Democrats. They can make a strong argument that they're acting on principle if they remove Trump from office. But trying to remove Trump and Pence from office would be obvious partisan politics. You shouldn't use impeachment as a means to overturn an election.
  #63  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:57 PM
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It's unlikely that President Trump will be impeached, and absurd to suggest that the Vice President will be.
Trump might be impeached, but not before someone else is elected in 2020 (it would happen in the lame duck period between election day and when the Congress's session ends on 1/3; it could even happen after the new Congress starts on 1/3, although if that were to happen, it would probably be after the official electoral vote count on 1/6). It would be symbolic more than anything else, and I doubt the Senate would even bother taking it up before the new President is sworn in.

Now there's a question: can a ex-president be impeached? There would still be a punishment; if convicted, Trump could not hold office again.
  #64  
Old 08-22-2018, 04:03 PM
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“An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”-Gerald R Ford
  #65  
Old 08-22-2018, 05:11 PM
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Be careful what you wish for....President Pence?
I'd rather Pence in the Oval Office than Trump; even if Pence wants to send me to conversion therapy.

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  #66  
Old 08-22-2018, 10:47 PM
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I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything.

And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with).
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  #67  
Old 08-22-2018, 10:57 PM
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And failing to convict in the Senate hands the 2020 election to Trump as far as I'm concerned.
  #68  
Old 08-22-2018, 11:33 PM
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True, but Nixon resigned after the threat of impeachment. He had previously won 49 states in a landslide. Trump lost the popular vote and pulled an inside straight to win the electoral college. Trump has no history in politics, unlike career politician Nixon and Trump won’t live as long post presidency.

The Clinton impeachment was stupid. Everyone could see it was just blind partisanship. And, even if it would have succeeded, then Gore goes into 2000 as a sitting president and likely wins.
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  #69  
Old 08-22-2018, 11:37 PM
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I doubt we'll hear much about impeachment before the elections, so as not to scare off voters, or even rally Chump's base. But after the election ...
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  #70  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:46 AM
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If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation. The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk.
Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What's Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can't pardon them, since it is a state charge.
Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them.
  #71  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:59 AM
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If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation. The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk.
Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What's Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can't pardon them, since it is a state charge.
Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them.
I've been thinking the same thing; that they may go after his family or his assets in order to pressure him into resigning.

I'd hate to see him just walk away from it all scot-free but at least he'd be out of power. If course we'd then be facing a Pence presidency but I guess we have to deal with one thing at a time.
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  #72  
Old 08-23-2018, 05:59 AM
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I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything.

And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with).
True, but if dems take the House only, they're not going to have much else to do for the next 2 years.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:11 AM
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If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation. The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk.
Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What's Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can't pardon them, since it is a state charge.
Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them.
It's not the NY State Attorney General's business to force the President of the U.S. to resign. Her job is to investigate and prosecute the laws of the state of New York. If she has evidence of criminal activity by Eric, Don Jr., or Ivanka she should prosecute them. If she can work out a plea bargain with any or all of them to testify against someone more responsible for the crimes (presumably Donald), she should do that. Those things could be a factor in Donald's eventual resignation or impeachment, but to make a deal for it directly seems outside her area of responsibility.
  #74  
Old 08-23-2018, 06:24 AM
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I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything.

And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with).
A couple of thoughts.
First, it'll force Reps and Senators alike to vote, one way or another, on the issue - something that can be used against them.
Second, a loss in the Senate is not 100% assured; it's possible enough individual Republican senators will look at the losses in the midterms, Trump's terrible approval rating, and decide it's time to cut their losses to do the trick.
Third, the Democrats will really piss of their base if they don't even try.

Fourth, it's the right thing to do.
  #75  
Old 08-23-2018, 06:38 AM
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It'll be over for Trump when enough people, particularly his base, are living with the consequences of their votes. Criminal convictions of his inner circle alone won't do it. Titillating scandal alone won't do it. But when farmers in Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Nebraska are watching their family estates go up in smoke because of an ill-conceived trade war, I can't help but think that at least *some* of them might question their allegiance to a guy who won't even release his own tax returns to prove that he actually runs a profitable enterprise himself.

I think Trump's kryptonite is to go after what he believes are his strengths: he characterizes himself as this great businessman, and that perceived competence in the eyes of many allows them to justify his outrageous speech and conduct. Right now, the majority of white America thinks they have their guy in office, but the public's mood can change, and fast. I think it'll be Trump's sheer incompetence that finally does him in. Unfortunately, my fear is that he's going to exact a heavy toll before this country comes to that realization, not just in terms of economics but also to our social fabric and our political identity. Some damage could be permanent.
  #76  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:26 AM
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I'm starting to feel like a neutered president Trump who is an albatross on the GOP is not the worst thing in the world right now.

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So what? Impeachment can be for anything.
It's entirely possible for Pence to be a conspirator. Unless you believe he was in the dark on the campaign shenanigans.
Maybe Mueller is looking into that.
You know who picked Pence as the running mate? Paul Manafort.
  #77  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:30 AM
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The Don is already going scorched earth. In the Fox interview this morning he basically paraphrased Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles: "Back off or the 401k gets it!"
  #78  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:30 AM
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True, but Nixon resigned after the threat of impeachment. He had previously won 49 states in a landslide. Trump lost the popular vote and pulled an inside straight to win the electoral college. Trump has no history in politics, unlike career politician Nixon and Trump won’t live as long post presidency.

The Clinton impeachment was stupid. Everyone could see it was just blind partisanship. And, even if it would have succeeded, then Gore goes into 2000 as a sitting president and likely wins.
Nixon resigned when Republican Senators told him that impeachment would lead to conviction in the Senate. We don't know what would have happened if enough Senate Republicans were unwilling to act.

That being said, I'm in favor of impeachment in the House even if it doesn't lead to conviction in the Senate. Congress needs to do something, and that's one of the few things it can do. Assuming that Mueller's investigation turns up something that is reasonably impeachable, which I think is likely.

Last edited by John Mace; 08-23-2018 at 08:33 AM.
  #79  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:04 AM
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I don't think the Democrats should focus on an impeachment unless they're confident they've got the votes. They don't need to impeach Trump to beat him; they just need to wear his ass out with subpoena power and an actual House investigation that Devin Nunes never did. There is no need to actually impeach. They just need enough of a presence to let law enforcement do its job.

I think trying to impeach once before they've actually made that case with the American public overwhelmingly is going to backfire. I'd rather they just relentlessly expose the corruption and rot within the Republican party. The Democrats can win simply by protecting Mueller and putting pressure on Senate Republicans, who are much more vulnerable to Trump's corruption than individual House members are.

They need to get out in front of Trump on things like economic equality. They need to push the repeal of that awful tax cut, fight to protect Obamacare, fight for higher minimum wages, and fight for labor unions. If they can do that and juxtapose it next to Trump's cabinet of corruption then they can win back the Senate and even the presidency, too.

Last edited by asahi; 08-23-2018 at 09:05 AM.
  #80  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:39 AM
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Trump is NOT Nixon. He will NEVER resign. That would require admitting he did something wrong, something he will not do no matter the stakes (yes, even including Don Jr. going to the slammer). We are not living in Nixon's time. Nixon did not have a 24/7 VERY popular propaganda machine behind him in 1974. It will take a HELL of a lot more than anything we know about to significantly erode his base, and until that happens, there is NO WAY the senate convicts.

May he not run again in 2020? Perhaps. Will he ever resign? No.
  #81  
Old 08-23-2018, 10:14 AM
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Ashtura - I think you're right. Trump truly doesn't think he's done anything wrong. Con jobs and crooked deals are just a part of doing business for him. Always has been.

Assuming he got Russia's help screwing with the election. Well, that's just fine because it got him elected. And that's the best outcome, so all is good.

Obviously I have quite a different opinion about the above.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:16 AM
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Nixon also refused to resign until he had a (drunken) long dark night of the soul after being told his only choice was between walking out and being thrown out.

The key players weren't Nixon and Kissinger, but the party leaders who formed the delegation that told him so. Do such people exist today?
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:21 AM
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If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I'll be accused of gloating.

Right?

But if I merely point out they're wrong now, then my statement has little probative weight.

Right?

I already know that those people predicting impeachment have pious principles forbidding their choosing to risk any tangible personal stakes on the outcome.

So this is simply another thread in which people share their hopes, but don't wish to be reminded about the facts, either now or later.

Too bad there's no forum more appropriate for that kind of pointless, mundane exercise.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:38 AM
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If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I'll be accused of gloating.
While I didn't make any such prediction (other than noting that it was a far more likely outcome for Trump than anyone else), it should be pointed out that you're anywhere from 2 to 6 years early to be making this statement with any authority.

Kenn Starr spent three years investigating Clinton before issuing his report and he wasn't impeached for another year after that point. We wouldn't expect an impeachment until Mueller issues some sort of report, and likely it would still take some time after that to accrue mass.

And, given that you are a lawyer, I feel like you're probably pretty well aware that it's a bit silly to announce someone exonerated, knowing that the case is still under investigation, let alone reached the stage at which it would be judged.

Obviously, it could well be that Trump passes through everything without issue, that Mueller exonerates him, etc. But even if so, I would maintain that this post was pretty poorly considered.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:45 AM
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If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I'll be accused of gloating.

Right?
If you gloat, it is gloating. Next time you are tempted, try just basking quietly in the warm sensation of being right.

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But if I merely point out they're wrong now, then my statement has little probative weight.

Right?
As much or as little as anyone's. I also think this will not lead to Trump's ouster. Without doing a head count, my impression is most in this thread don't think this will lead to his ouster. So you're sitting comfortably with the majority. Doesn't it feel good to be part of the hive mind ?

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So this is simply another thread in which people share their hopes, but don't wish to be reminded about the facts, either now or later.
I'd say this is another hopeful thread with people discussing whether there is much factual support for that hope. The consensus answer appears to be "no".

ETA: By the way, while I don't think this latest news will in any way lead to Trump's ouster without more damning evidence, I make no particular predictions about a possible House impeachment. The one could happen without the other.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 08-23-2018 at 10:48 AM.
  #86  
Old 08-23-2018, 10:50 AM
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Nixon also refused to resign until he had a (drunken) long dark night of the soul after being told his only choice was between walking out and being thrown out.

The key players weren't Nixon and Kissinger, but the party leaders who formed the delegation that told him so. Do such people exist today?
No. No "party leaders" of the Republican persuasion are going to tell trump to resign until 67 senators are lined up solid to impeach him. And that won't happen without the base's approval, which in this age is not likely to happen because of Trump's 24/7 VERY popular propaganda arm. Political suicide.

And since when does Trump care about what other people say anyway?
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:51 AM
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While I didn't make any such prediction (other than noting that it was a far more likely outcome for Trump than anyone else), it should be pointed out that you're anywhere from 2 to 6 years early to be making this statement with any authority.

Kenn Starr spent three years investigating Clinton before issuing his report and he wasn't impeached for another year after that point. We wouldn't expect an impeachment until Mueller issues some sort of report, and likely it would still take some time after that to accrue mass.

And, given that you are a lawyer, I feel like you're probably pretty well aware that it's a bit silly to announce someone exonerated, knowing that the case is still under investigation, let alone reached the stage at which it would be judged.

Obviously, it could well be that Trump passes through everything without issue, that Mueller exonerates him, etc. But even if so, I would maintain that this post was pretty poorly considered.
It's a prediction. If it happens (ha!) that I am wrong, I'll bump it and eat crow, as I have in the past.

But I have noticed that while I do that, most people here don't. That's fair enough, I suppose; I don't think people have some positive obligation to bump their own errors and announce them. But I have noticed that when the the past error is brought to light by me, then rather than forthrightly acknowledge the mistake, scorn is heaped on me for things like not having a life, not letting things go, having to be right all the time, and other criticisms that conceal the original wrong prediction in a flurry of distractions.

In other words, I am standing by what i say. I argue that this thread, like so many others, will not only be forgotten when its predictions fail to materialize, but any attempt to remind the people who made the predictions of their failure will be met with reactions other than acceptance of their error.
  #88  
Old 08-23-2018, 10:57 AM
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In other words, I am standing by what i say. I argue that this thread, like so many others, will not only be forgotten when its predictions fail to materialize, but any attempt to remind the people who made the predictions of their failure will be met with reactions other than acceptance of their error.
Well, feel free to come back in a couple of years and demonstrate that the above is factual. Until then, your prediction is pretty much worthless.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:00 AM
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Well, feel free to come back in a couple of years and demonstrate that the above is factual. Until then, your prediction is pretty much worthless.
I will.

And will you also come back to rebut the people who excoriate me then for not having a life, and not letting things go?
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:07 AM
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And failing to convict in the Senate hands the 2020 election to Trump as far as I'm concerned.
Not necessarily. If the Democrats in the House present good evidence to the public of Trump committing serious crimes and then the Republicans in the Senate simply refuse to remove him from office on the basis that he's a fellow Republican, it will be the Republicans who pay the price in 2020.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:18 AM
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the Republicans in the Senate simply refuse to remove him from office on the basis that he's a fellow Republican, it will be the Republicans who pay the price in 2020.
It could actually strengthen their support among the base, driven as they are by simple tribalism rather than patriotism.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:22 AM
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The opinion article I enjoyed today described the unindicted co-conspirator in the white house. I think that is a far more profitable approach than calling for impeachment (at best, a crazy long shot w/ little or no chance of success.) Moreover, impeachment would leave us w/ president Pence. Man, it really is tough to figure out whether Trump or Pence would be worse. I lived in IN for a while when Pence was governor. That fucker is CRAZY!

The best approach would be to keep up the constant pressure on all of Trump's lackeys. See what the Mueller probe uncovers, but also pursue independent lawsuits. Keep up the drumbeat that Trump is a proven liar, who seems to surround himself with an astounding number of criminals, and tar Pence by association. The fish rots from the head. Use that message to make gains in the upcoming midterms, in state and local votes nationwide, and in 2020.
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  #93  
Old 08-23-2018, 11:41 AM
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I will.

And will you also come back to rebut the people who excoriate me then for not having a life, and not letting things go?
Well, in all honesty, probably not. I've seen a lot of annoyed comments about you over the years, but I have to confess I haven't noticed any great frequency of accusations that you don't have a life. OTOH, you do seem to have quite the habit of not letting things go. Then there's the incessant argument by accusation of hypocrisy, which I personally find cheap and tiresome.

Well, that's probably too harsh. Let's say maybe, subject to the caveat that I happen to agree with you on what constitutes "excoriation".

See you in 2020 (if I remember)!
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:47 AM
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I think I've mentioned it before somewhere else but

"Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump's (aspiration/candidacy/presidency)"

has been asked too often and always ended up in the negative. Seeking something that will be the silver bullet that takes Trump down has repeatedly failed and should nto be counted upon.

I agree with those who say the goal should not be "Impeachment Now!!!" as that would only place everyone in hard defensive positions. Rather first do all the digging and investigationg and muckraking necessary to make a case against his reelection and IF a big enough crime shows up, then think about it. And that means REALLY make a case. This is not 1998 when people could imagine that if you grabbed on to some lying under oath and wrapped it in a sex scandal it would be trivial to take Clinton down, and it ended up taking Gingrich down instead -- this is Trump and the GOP "base" are proud of having a shameless amoral leader. The GOP Representatives and Senators, forever scared witless of being primaried from the Right, will not go along no matter what, because they know Trump and his allies will do a political "I go down, YOU go down and so what if the world burns".
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:51 AM
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I lived in IN for a while when Pence was governor. That fucker is CRAZY!
How so? I hadn't heard anything about him until the election.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:13 PM
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David Pecker, head of the Enquirer, has been granted immunity by federal prosecutors.
  #97  
Old 08-23-2018, 12:17 PM
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How so? I hadn't heard anything about him until the election.
You don’t remember the blow up after the ‘religious freedom’ Law? The pizza place that wouldn’t cater a same sex marriage? The Indiana travel bans from blue state governments?

It all seems so long ago. But, it was a black eye on Indiana. Indianapolis is the home of the NCAA as well as a big convention city.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:30 PM
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How so? I hadn't heard anything about him until the election.
At the time, IN seemed to jump on the most extreme "carry your papers if brown-skinned" type of laws. Every time Arpaio or someone in the SW came up w/ some crazy law, IN would jump on board. I believe there was a proposal that aborted fetuses be given funerals or somesuch. And school funding was decimated.

Sorry my memory Oof only 5-8 yrs ago) is not that strong, but he was beating the drum at the head of what impressed me an an awfully bigoted red state (other than it's blue NW corner).
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:31 PM
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David Pecker, head of the Enquirer, has been granted immunity by federal prosecutors.
[Beavis and Butthead/] heh-heh. You said peckerhead [\Beavis and Butthead]

This and the Cohen deal are important. There was a conspiracy to pay money for the purpose of influencing the election. This plus the obstruction of justice should be enough to put the nail in his coffin and/or the garlic spear through his heart.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:12 PM
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Is this finally it? Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump's presidency?

The "series of events" that will finally end Trump's presidency is called the next presidential election. The persistent, almost delusional, idea of overturning the last election is taking its toll, and not on Trump. Focus on the next elections, both mid-terms and presidential, and maybe he won't get a second term. Right now I do not see a viable Democratic candidate.

"It's the economy, stupid" made famous by the very smart Bill Clinton. The current trending of the Democratic Party toward more socialism during a booming economy shows little indication that Trump will lose his next election. Listen to Bill and come up with a candidate, and a platform, that doesn't include every liberal pipe dream.

Everything else is fluff, feathers, and misdirection. Impeachment is a waste of time, energy, and the patience of the voters. Oooh, ooh, this might be it is not a productive use of time.
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