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  #101  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:16 PM
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...Sorry my memory Oof only 5-8 yrs ago) is not that strong, but he was beating the drum at the head of what impressed me an an awfully bigoted red state (other than it's blue NW corner).
Thanks, Dalej42 and Dinsdale.
  #102  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:41 PM
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It could actually strengthen their support among the base, driven as they are by simple tribalism rather than patriotism.
That doesn't really matter. Trump's base is solid; surprisingly so. So they're already going to vote for Trump.

So who cares if they get fired up? They can't vote harder for Trump.

Each party has a base that always votes for it. If those bases were big enough to win elections, one party would always win. Elections are decided by the people who aren't in a base; people who are swing voters that are open to voting for either party and indifferent voters who may or may not bother to vote. These are the voters who make a difference and these are the voters who are open to persuasion. (You also have a third group; the people who don't matter in elections. These are the people who are committed to voting for a third party and the people who don't vote.)
  #103  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:45 PM
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The one-two punch of Manafort being convicted of eight felonies and the stunning turn of events with Michael Cohen has me optimistic for the first time that maybe, just maybe, we will be rid of the scourge that is Trump leading our nation.

What do you guys think?
No. If the best Mueller has to convict guys on tax evasion that happened years before Trump was elected President, he’s 1,000 country miles away from what he was looking for in collusion.
  #104  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:48 PM
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What are you talking about?

The Supreme Court doesn't remove the president, the Senate does.

If you are talking about a legal fight over a subpoena from Mueller, Trump would still lose that battle in the Supreme Court, even if Kavanaugh was sitting.

Of course, having lost the battle, Trump could still refuse to comply. I hope that happens.

It would take a vote with 75 or more of 100 senators to remove Trump from office.
  #105  
Old 08-23-2018, 01:49 PM
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That doesn't really matter. Trump's base is solid; surprisingly so. So they're already going to vote for Trump.

So who cares if they get fired up? They can't vote harder for Trump.

Each party has a base that always votes for it. If those bases were big enough to win elections, one party would always win.
Perhaps more Democrats will vote the next time around. I believe that many thought Clinton would win without their bothering to vote.
  #106  
Old 08-23-2018, 02:05 PM
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I'm starting to feel like a neutered president Trump who is an albatross on the GOP is not the worst thing in the world right now.



You know who picked Pence as the running mate? Paul Manafort.
Manafort may be scum, but picking Pence was a brilliant political move, even though it wasn't seen so at the time. The only other candidate was Chris Christie. Pence does have ties to evangelicals and getting Franklin Graham and Jerry Fallwell, Jr behind Trump was key to his win.

If Pence loses for VP, then he goes into a lobbying job and perhaps a show on Fox News or Trump TV. That beats a possible loss for reelection as Indiana governor
  #107  
Old 08-23-2018, 02:46 PM
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Now that Pecker at the National Enquirer is talking is also possible that he could release McDougal from their agreement? Now, that would be interesting. (Although, I guess there's not much more she could add to the interview she did with Cooper or whoever it was.)
  #108  
Old 08-23-2018, 02:47 PM
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It would take a vote with 75 or more of 100 senators to remove Trump from office.

Correction: sixty seven (67)
  #109  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:08 PM
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I do not believe there is any line Trump could cross that would lead to his removal from office by the Senate.
  #110  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:22 PM
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Now that Pecker at the National Enquirer is talking is also possible that he could release McDougal from their agreement? Now, that would be interesting. (Although, I guess there's not much more she could add to the interview she did with Cooper or whoever it was.)
McDougal was released from her agreement four months ago. She hasn't said much since. I assume that she is shopping her story around for the best price.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/u...ettlement.html
  #111  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:36 PM
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Correction: sixty seven (67)
You're correct. Impeachment won't happen with a campaign manager being convicted for tax evasion with nothing on the President, but if the Democrats get a majority in the Senate, they can waste their time on calling for a vote.

Bill Clinton's alleged extramarital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky resulted in his impeachment by the House of Representatives on Dec. 19, 1998. The charges for the impeachment were perjury and obstruction of justice. In the end, 50 senators voted to convict him on obstruction of justice and 45 found him guilty of perjury. Clinton remained in office because the required two-thirds, or 67-vote, minimum was not reached.
  #112  
Old 08-23-2018, 04:08 PM
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If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I'll be accused of gloating.
Which predictions, in this thread, are you thinking of? I didn't see anyone actually predicting impeachment, except in the case of something improbable happening (the Democrats gain control of the Senate).

Last edited by John Mace; 08-23-2018 at 04:08 PM.
  #113  
Old 08-23-2018, 04:15 PM
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Bill Clinton's alleged extramarital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky resulted in his impeachment by the House of Representatives on Dec. 19, 1998. The charges for the impeachment were perjury and obstruction of justice. In the end, 50 senators voted to convict him on obstruction of justice and 45 found him guilty of perjury. Clinton remained in office because the required two-thirds, or 67-vote, minimum was not reached.
Reference.com couldn't have said it better.
  #114  
Old 08-23-2018, 04:39 PM
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DOH!

There's a P word for that. I believe Melania Trump employed it during her RNC speech.

Last edited by bobot; 08-23-2018 at 04:40 PM.
  #115  
Old 08-23-2018, 07:21 PM
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No. No "party leaders" of the Republican persuasion are going to tell trump to resign until 67 senators are lined up solid to impeach him. And that won't happen without the base's approval, which in this age is not likely to happen because of Trump's 24/7 VERY popular propaganda arm. Political suicide.

And since when does Trump care about what other people say anyway?
About 88%! of Trump's base (Republicans) approve of his performance and 45% of registered voters approve of his performance as President. Like it or not, these a very high numbers for a sitting President that Democrats want to be impeached. What Republican Senator would vote to remove such a popular president? Political suicide.

And I have news for you. There will NEVER be 67 Democratic Senators before Trump leaves office in 2024.

"Trump's 24/7 VERY popular propaganda arm" ??? What are you talking about? Its Fox News and Trump's Twitter account vs. the rest of the MSM. Check out the article from that conservative rag, The Washington Post, "Study: 91 percent of recent network Trump coverage has been negative".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/
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  #116  
Old 08-23-2018, 07:28 PM
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Faux "News" is absolutely Trump's propaganda channel. This is obvious. Ask yourself, what other Presidents have granted this "news" channel an interview?
  #117  
Old 08-23-2018, 07:50 PM
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Faux "News" is absolutely Trump's propaganda channel. This is obvious. Ask yourself, what other Presidents have granted this "news" channel an interview?
It's the only god dam thing they listen to.

I small hope that I have is that every republican defending his seat in congress gets replaced by a dem. That might get their attention.
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  #118  
Old 08-23-2018, 07:51 PM
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Faux "News" is absolutely Trump's propaganda channel. This is obvious. Ask yourself, what other Presidents have granted this "news" channel an interview?
Actually, Obama did an interview with Billo The Clown himself
  #119  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:01 PM
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OK that link opens up a page full of bullshit. Do you have a cleaner link to Obama's Faux interview?

Last edited by bobot; 08-23-2018 at 08:01 PM.
  #120  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:14 PM
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Yes, Obama gave Fox News interviews.

https://youtu.be/9uzJYlbhH54
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  #121  
Old 08-23-2018, 08:18 PM
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Congressional Republicans will support this president until they judge the political cost of doing so to be too high. Then they'll drop him like a shit sandwich.
  #122  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:08 PM
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If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I'll be accused of gloating...
Wait, you're gloating that an admitted criminal/traitor gets to stay in office as President? Way to care about America, there...

But you're going all in on "No Impeachment"... if you recall, the title of this thread is "Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump's (aspiration/candidacy/presidency)"

Trump can "end" in dozens of ways. He could quit, have a heart attack (with or without Hooker Urine), be offered a "golden parachute" deal... or my favorite: he sees his friends and family in trouble, is warned of financial ruin coming, and slinks away in the dead of night. In fact, if he ends up in a Cozy Dacha on the Danube, I called it over a year ago.
  #123  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:40 PM
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[Beavis and Butthead/] heh-heh. You said peckerhead [\Beavis and Butthead]

This and the Cohen deal are important. There was a conspiracy to pay money for the purpose of influencing the election. This plus the obstruction of justice should be enough to put the nail in his coffin and/or the garlic spear through his heart.
But there's more, and I don't know why it hasn't gotten more attention. If you read the Cohen plea deal documents you will see it describes the way in which Cohen was reimbursed for the payment he made to Stephanie Clifford. Cohen conspired with executives at the Trump Organization to submit and collect on fraudulent invoices structured for the purpose of concealing the payment. At minimum, they have a couple of executives at the Trump Organization dead to rights on tax evasion.

PS - As I am typing this, MSNBC announced a breaking NYT story that the Manhattan DA is going to criminally investigate the Trump Organization over these payments. Maybe the dominoes are starting to fall.

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Now that Pecker at the National Enquirer is talking is also possible that he could release McDougal from their agreement? Now, that would be interesting. (Although, I guess there's not much more she could add to the interview she did with Cooper or whoever it was.)
Pecker and the National Enquirer have been in the bag for Trump for a long time now and there may have been other questionable interactions between the two. Trump used a National Enquirer story in a blackmail attempt on Joe Scarborough. Trump was certainly involved in a smear piece the Enquirer ran on Ted Cruz towards the end of the primary season.


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About 88%! of Trump's base (Republicans) approve of his performance and 45% of registered voters approve of his performance as President. Like it or not, these a very high numbers for a sitting President that Democrats want to be impeached. What Republican Senator would vote to remove such a popular president? Political suicide.

And I have news for you. There will NEVER be 67 Democratic Senators before Trump leaves office in 2024.

"Trump's 24/7 VERY popular propaganda arm" ??? What are you talking about? Its Fox News and Trump's Twitter account vs. the rest of the MSM. Check out the article from that conservative rag, The Washington Post, "Study: 91 percent of recent network Trump coverage has been negative".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/
The media isn't out to get Trump. Federal law enforcement isn't out to get Trump. This is one of Trumps con artist techniques -- Start a feud with anyone that might bring down your scam, then you can accuse them of bias when they get the goods on you. 91% of the coverage on Trump is negative because 91% of the stuff Trump does is horrible. The media actually makes an effort to give him positive coverage if they get the opportunity - it just doesn't happen much. I don't understand how that can find that 9%.

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You're correct. Impeachment won't happen with a campaign manager being convicted for tax evasion with nothing on the President, but if the Democrats get a majority in the Senate, they can waste their time on calling for a vote.

Bill Clinton's alleged extramarital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky resulted in his impeachment by the House of Representatives on Dec. 19, 1998. The charges for the impeachment were perjury and obstruction of justice. In the end, 50 senators voted to convict him on obstruction of justice and 45 found him guilty of perjury. Clinton remained in office because the required two-thirds, or 67-vote, minimum was not reached.
And no one could ever accuse Trump of lying and obstructing justice, could they?

Now it may turn out that Trump effectively shielded himself from the actions of his cronies so that no one can pin anything on him directly. At which point you guys will be cheering and high-fiving each other like you won something.

I'm sad for my country, half of them because they've let a con man persuade them that decency and integrity are not important, especially if you can get a few extra bucks in your pocket in exchange for your principles and moral center. And I'm sad for the other half because we have to live in the same world as those guys.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 08-23-2018 at 09:43 PM.
  #124  
Old 08-24-2018, 03:03 AM
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Everything else is fluff, feathers, and misdirection. Impeachment is a waste of time, energy, and the patience of the voters. Oooh, ooh, this might be it is not a productive use of time.
Yeah, any expectation that the president flagrantly breaking election laws would be enough to have him removed from office severely overestimates the moral fiber of republicans in congress. Actions that would result in normal people being thrown in prison are AOK if it's the president.

This isn't me being facetious, that's literally where we are right now.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 08-24-2018 at 03:04 AM.
  #125  
Old 08-24-2018, 05:40 AM
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Yes, Obama gave Fox News interviews.

https://youtu.be/9uzJYlbhH54
Well that's disappointing.
  #126  
Old 08-24-2018, 07:50 AM
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No. If the best Mueller has to convict guys on tax evasion that happened years before Trump was elected President, he’s 1,000 country miles away from what he was looking for in collusion.
Reading the indictments against Manafort would let you know that Manafort was accused of crimes that continued "at least through" 2017.

Whoever told you otherwise was flim-flamming you.
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  #127  
Old 08-24-2018, 08:25 AM
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Yeah, any expectation that the president flagrantly breaking election laws would be enough to have him removed from office severely overestimates the moral fiber of republicans in congress. Actions that would result in normal people being thrown in prison are AOK if it's the president.

This isn't me being facetious, that's literally where we are right now.
This probably applies to the Republicans in the Supreme Court as well. A key moment in the Watergate scandal was when Nixon claimed he didn't have to comply with a subpoena because he had "executive privilege". The court unanimously decided against him and required the President to submit to the legal proceedings.

That was 1974. If the same issue was put before the 2018 court, I believe the Republican judges would rule that the President could ignore the subpoena and keep the evidence in his possession. And, as they did in 2000, they would say this wasn't a precedent and they were free to change their minds if a Democrat asked the same question.

The days when the Supreme Court was above politics are past. It's now just another political body like the House, the Senate, or the Presidency.
  #128  
Old 08-24-2018, 08:36 AM
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Bill Clinton's alleged extramarital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky resulted in his impeachment by the House of Representatives on Dec. 19, 1998. The charges for the impeachment were perjury and obstruction of justice. In the end, 50 senators voted to convict him on obstruction of justice and 45 found him guilty of perjury. Clinton remained in office because the required two-thirds, or 67-vote, minimum was not reached.
This is a warning for Failure to follow a moderator's instructions. You've been instructed to indicate your sources when copying and pasting.

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  #129  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:33 AM
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Trump Organization CFO granted immunity. No indication of what he's doing to get it, so far as I can tell. But if it's just paying off women about affairs, I can't see the base or GOP Congress getting riled up about it, even if turned out have been done with campaign funds, etc.

Last edited by Tzigone; 08-24-2018 at 11:36 AM.
  #130  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:50 AM
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My hope way back in 2017 was that, once the Mueller investigation demonstrated to red voters saw how corrupt their man was (and how little he actually cared about them), they would realize how badly betrayed they'd been by their own party and the GOP would collapse flaming into ruin.

Yes, I was somewhat naive.

Now I believe that no matter what Mueller turns up -- including ironclad evidence that Trump has been laundering Russian drug money for a decade or more, and that he personally and actively enlisted Russia's help in the election -- Trump's base won't believe it, and the party that impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob will say move along, nothing to see here.

Still, if Dems win a House majority and Mueller presents evidence of that magnitude, they should impeach. They won't succeed in removing him, but they have to do everything they can to broadcast the sickening truth about this guy and his party of enablers, to ensure that his presidency ends Jan. 20. 2021.
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  #131  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:56 AM
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My hope way back in 2017 was that, once the Mueller investigation demonstrated to red voters saw how corrupt their man was (and how little he actually cared about them), they would realize how badly betrayed they'd been by their own party and the GOP would collapse flaming into ruin.
Because it's not actually about corruption or swamp-draining or even the economy. It's about white people convinced that they're losing their way of life and being persecuted and that they might not be on top one day and it terrifies them. And Trump plays on that fear and promises to make it all better. Trump can bang a thousand porn stars on top of a pile of embezzled money while the country is sold to Russia and that's fine for these people provided they can still feel superior for being a white English-speaking heterosexual Christian (bonus points for being male).

Last edited by Jophiel; 08-24-2018 at 11:57 AM.
  #132  
Old 08-24-2018, 12:07 PM
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Because it's not actually about corruption or swamp-draining or even the economy. It's about white people convinced that they're losing their way of life and being persecuted and that they might not be on top one day and it terrifies them. And Trump plays on that fear and promises to make it all better. Trump can bang a thousand porn stars on top of a pile of embezzled money while the country is sold to Russia and that's fine for these people provided they can still feel superior for being a white English-speaking heterosexual Christian (bonus points for being male).
Yes, I get that now. Plus, Faux News.
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  #133  
Old 08-24-2018, 12:30 PM
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...Still, if Dems win a House majority and Mueller presents evidence of that magnitude, they should impeach. They won't succeed in removing him, but they have to do everything they can to broadcast the sickening truth about this guy and his party of enablers, to ensure that his presidency ends Jan. 20. 2021.
And impeaching him will lay the whole mess at the feet of the senate republicans. At that point only they will be able to remedy the situation.
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:38 PM
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And impeaching him will lay the whole mess at the feet of the senate republicans. At that point only they will be able to remedy the situation.
If (that's a BIG "if") the House manages to impeach him, is there any guarantee the Senate would even hold a trial? Or could The Turtle just sit on it and refuse to do it like he refused to have a hearing on Garland?
  #135  
Old 08-24-2018, 12:42 PM
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And impeaching him will lay the whole mess at the feet of the senate republicans. At that point only they will be able to remedy the situation.
They won't remedy the situation. Forget that fantasy. But when they face re-election, they will have to face questions such as "How is it you consider a man who's been reliably revealed as a money launderer for Russian drug kingpins fit to remain President of the United States?"
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  #136  
Old 08-24-2018, 03:53 PM
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If (that's a BIG "if") the House manages to impeach him, is there any guarantee the Senate would even hold a trial? Or could The Turtle just sit on it and refuse to do it like he refused to have a hearing on Garland?
Is there some way that could be turned into an obstruction rap?
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:13 PM
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we're still 6 years, 4 months, and 26 days away from the end of President Donald J. Trump's time as prez. Sorry, no peach mints gonna happen.

Last edited by Epic; 08-24-2018 at 04:13 PM.
  #138  
Old 08-24-2018, 06:50 PM
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Trump Organization CFO granted immunity. No indication of what he's doing to get it, so far as I can tell. But if it's just paying off women about affairs, I can't see the base or GOP Congress getting riled up about it, even if turned out have been done with campaign funds, etc.
The only reason to grant the Trump Org CFO immunity is if he has actionable information about his coworkers. This is going after the Trump family and it will almost certainly be shared with the NY state attorneys investigating the Trump Foundation & the NY city prosecutor who is investigating criminal charges against Trump Org.

As Esquire put it - nothing good happens for the boss when they flip the accountant.
  #139  
Old 08-24-2018, 06:56 PM
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we're still 6 years, 4 months, and 26 days away from the end of President Donald J. Trump's time as prez. Sorry, no peach mints gonna happen.
Your arithmetic is off. Either that or you forgot the term for president is only four years.
  #140  
Old 08-24-2018, 06:58 PM
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He's presuming a second four year term, an event only slightly less likely than his initial election was.
  #141  
Old 08-24-2018, 10:52 PM
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we're still 6 years, 4 months, and 26 days away from the end of President Donald J. Trump's time as prez. Sorry, no peach mints gonna happen.
And... he's gone. He didn't last long.
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  #142  
Old 08-24-2018, 10:54 PM
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And... he's gone. He didn't last long.
Too bad you don't mean the so-called president.
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  #143  
Old 08-24-2018, 11:21 PM
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No. There is no way republicans impeach Trump or hold him accountable no matter what crimes he committed.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if Mueller has Trump under sealed indictment, and once Trump steps down from president in 2021 or 2025 (yes, Americans are that stupid), then he may get prosecuted.
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  #144  
Old 08-25-2018, 12:06 AM
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No. There is no way republicans impeach Trump or hold him accountable no matter what crimes he committed.
What if he commits the unforgiveable sin of hurting the re-election chances?
  #145  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:06 AM
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I think history will split the difference and Trump will have a massive coronary. He's thin-skinned and takes the mildest of criticisms as if they are vile, dire attacks. At some point someone is going to remind him how much he wants to bang his own daughter and in a fit of faux outrage he will shit himself and die.

I mean that is if there is any justice in this world.
  #146  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:07 AM
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I think history will split the difference and Trump will have a massive coronary. He's thin-skinned and takes the mildest of criticisms as if they are vile, dire attacks. At some point someone is going to remind him how much he wants to bang his own daughter and in a fit of faux outrage he will shit himself and die.

I mean that is if there is any justice in this world.
  #147  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver lining View Post
No. If the best Mueller has to convict guys on tax evasion that happened years before Trump was elected President, he’s 1,000 country miles away from what he was looking for in collusion.
You're assuming that he's "looking for" anything other than the truth. And "collusion" is not a crime so why would he be looking for that? Maybe the word you're looking for is "conspiracy".
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  #148  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver lining View Post
No. If the best Mueller has to convict guys on tax evasion that happened years before Trump was elected President, he’s 1,000 country miles away from what he was looking for in collusion.
Crime networks are taken down by prosecuting small fry for their crimes and flipping them, so that they will rat on their superiors.

I'm reasonably sure that you are aware of that, and have seen the word "flip" in the media over the last two years, so why are you making this asinine statement?
  #149  
Old 08-25-2018, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Crime networks are taken down by prosecuting small fry for their crimes and flipping them, so that they will rat on their superiors.

I'm reasonably sure that you are aware of that, and have seen the word "flip" in the media over the last two years, so why are you making this asinine statement?
Trump himself used the word 'flip' a couple of days ago:
"For 30, 40 years I've been watching flippers. Everything's wonderful and then they get 10 years in jail and they – they flip on whoever the next highest one is, or as high as you can go." – Trump

NYT on Trump and his connections with Mafia culture:

With a Vocabulary From ‘Goodfellas,’ Trump Evokes His Native New York

Last edited by GreenWyvern; 08-25-2018 at 07:02 AM.
  #150  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DWMarch View Post
...I mean that is if there is any justice in this world.
Good luck with that.
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