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  #51  
Old 03-16-2019, 03:02 PM
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Really? Could he not be the American Trudeau? He's older than Pitt the Younger when the latter became Prime Minister.
Conventional wisdom says he has no chance at winning the “invisible primary” (fundraising, support from current/former officeholders) or the expectations game (media attention to the candidates who “have a chance”). Unless something changes. We have a weak party system in the US, so voters choose presidential candidates — we are also an absurdly large country to have such a system, which means most of us won’t learn much about most of the candidates unless they have some kind of institutional support or gain attention in some way (eg Trump’s outlandish performative racism).

But that traditional dynamic may be changing. Sanders’s candidacy in 2016 was a long-shot protest bid when he announced — he ended up doing quite well. It wasn’t all due to the Russians, either.

One thing’s for sure: Mayor Pete*’s not going to win the nom by following Pitt’s or Trudeau’s lead, because our system is very different.

* after his Christchurch statement yesterday, I’m just gonna start calling him “America’s Mayor.”
  #52  
Old 03-16-2019, 03:46 PM
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This sounds really dismissive and makes me wonder if you have read what others have posted in this thread: Rhodes scholar, decorated veteran of the war in Afghanistan, held in high regard by Democratic Party regulars AND the local Chamber of Commerce, turned around the local economy, young, charismatic speaker and comes across very well on television and interviews. Most of those are things that would give credence to a run for president even if he wasn't gay. Odd that's the only part of his story you picked up on.

I think it would be great to have an openly gay candidate make a serious run, maybe get tapped for VP. But it should be someone like Tammy Baldwin who has reached a higher office. If we were to even consider a mayor as a presidential contender, it ought to be one who presides over one of the largest cities in the country.
  #53  
Old 03-16-2019, 05:35 PM
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I think it would be great to have an openly gay candidate make a serious run, maybe get tapped for VP. But it should be someone like Tammy Baldwin who has reached a higher office. If we were to even consider a mayor as a presidential contender, it ought to be one who presides over one of the largest cities in the country.
De Blasio, Garcetti, Emanuel ... well, at least they're all Democrats, I guess. Of course, none of them is running (yet?).
  #54  
Old 03-16-2019, 08:48 PM
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So it's just the Maltese for 'Chicken-farmer'?
Think. "Father of chickens"—what could that mean but... rooster?

Bu means 'father', not 'lord'. I'm grateful to the Telegraph for giving us the clue to "tiġieġ," but I criticize their mistranslation of Bu.

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For what it's worth, Google Translate does have Maltese, but it can't do anything with "Buttigieg". In fact, it considers it English, no doubt due to most instances of the word being on English-language pages.
It couldn't do anything with the name as is, because the way the different words are compounded to make a surname isn't going to be found in any dictionary. The dictionary does have tiġieġ translated as chickens.

Bu is North African Arabic for 'father', but isn't a word in standard Maltese, in which the word for father is missier (from "monsieur," via Italian).

The things Google Translate can do are dwarfed by the things it hopelessly can't do.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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*I was kidding about "rooster." The Arabic kunyah is a naming convention where the word abū 'father' or umm 'mother' is compounded with a following noun or proper name. Generally, it uses your kid's name N to literally call you 'father/mother of N'. Figuratively, "Abū/Umm X" can mean 'the person who has/owns/is characterized by X'.
  #56  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:55 AM
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I am impressed by something I learned today, that he speaks seven languages, including Norwegian--which he learned because he read a book translated from Norwegian, and the author's other works had not been translated into English.
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  #57  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:19 AM
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*I was kidding about "rooster." The Arabic kunyah is a naming convention where the word abū 'father' or umm 'mother' is compounded with a following noun or proper name. Generally, it uses your kid's name N to literally call you 'father/mother of N'. Figuratively, "Abū/Umm X" can mean 'the person who has/owns/is characterized by X'.
I fucking love the SDMB.
  #58  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:22 AM
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De Blasio, Garcetti, Emanuel ... well, at least they're all Democrats, I guess. Of course, none of them is running (yet?).
Garcetti has dropped out. De Blasio is sniffing around New Hampshire. Emanuel who?
  #59  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:34 AM
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I'm getting ads on Facebook for Buttegieg, while I haven't seen any ads for any other candidates. Is this because I live 10 miles away from South Bend, or are people elsewhere in the country also seeing them?
  #60  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:59 AM
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...IOW he should be nominated by the Democrats because
  • he's young,
  • he's a veteran,
  • he is openly gay
  • he got elected mayor of South Bend twice, AND
  • fill in the blank here.

Regards,
Shodan
To your fill in the blank -

He gives thoughtful answers to the questions he is asked.

IOW, there is a genuineness to him not seen in some time and he actually appears to consider his answers before he opens his mouth.

Given our present circumstances that should get him declared President by acclamation.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 03-17-2019 at 02:01 AM.
  #61  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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To your fill in the blank -

He gives thoughtful answers to the questions he is asked.
You mean he doesn't speak in soundbites? BLASPHEMY!

BTW remember that the last president who was a Rhodes Scholar was Bill Clinton. Those are big boots to fill.
  #62  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:16 AM
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I'm getting ads on Facebook for Buttegieg, while I haven't seen any ads for any other candidates. Is this because I live 10 miles away from South Bend, or are people elsewhere in the country also seeing them?
It's possibly because Google or Facebook or both are noting that you're visiting this page.
  #63  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:26 AM
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I think it would be great to have an openly gay candidate make a serious run, maybe get tapped for VP. But it should be someone like Tammy Baldwin who has reached a higher office. If we were to even consider a mayor as a presidential contender, it ought to be one who presides over one of the largest cities in the country.
I really like Pete, not the least of which because he is one of the few candidates that will actually viscerally care what the world looks like in 2050 because he will still have to be living in that world. It's not an intellectual exercise for him. He's honest and straightforward and has more experience in every category than our current president.

I'm donating to his campaign. I think it's unlikely he gets the nod but I hope he makes some noise.
  #64  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:39 AM
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The Guardian has just published a gushing article here.
  #65  
Old 03-17-2019, 08:39 AM
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To your fill in the blank -

He gives thoughtful answers to the questions he is asked.

IOW, there is a genuineness to him not seen in some time and he actually appears to consider his answers before he opens his mouth.

Given our present circumstances that should get him declared President by acclamation.
Over every other candidate, Democrat or Republican? Hmm.

Any specific issue he is centering on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoe
So, Shodan, I look forward to not hearing about how he’s just an identity politics candidate anymore. (NB: in the DemocratIC Party, “gay white man” is not an identity that is going to swing the biggest vote blocs.)
True - "black man" is the bigger swing vote bloc, and having every black person automatically vote for you wins more elections than having every gay person vote for you. As has been mentioned, Hilary lost because black people stayed home and did not vote for her like they did Obama. Would blacks be more likely to turn out for a gay white person as a straight white one? That remains to be seen.

Regards,
Shodan
  #66  
Old 03-17-2019, 09:42 AM
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Really? Could he not be the American Trudeau? He's older than Pitt the Younger when the latter became Prime Minister.
Yes really. Pete Buttigieg has no chance this time around because he's a nobody from nowhere and he has to overcome that first.

Justin Trudeau never had to deal with that. His birth was national front page news. When he was three months old President Richard Nixon visited Canada and toasted, "The future prime minister."
  #67  
Old 03-17-2019, 10:29 AM
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I really like Pete, not the least of which because he is one of the few candidates that will actually viscerally care what the world looks like in 2050 because he will still have to be living in that world. It's not an intellectual exercise for him. ....
I think I mentioned this before, but to piggyback on this line: when I heard him speak last summer, the thing he said that I found most compelling was a comment to the effect that he CAN'T go back to the 1950s; it's not just a matter of don't-want-to, it's a matter of can't. Going back to what the fifties stood for, he said, would invalidate his marriage, force him into metaphorical hiding. --To some extent the same can be said by the women and the people of color in the presidential field as well, but the sense of "erasure" in what he was talking about was especially powerful.

Look forward AND don't look back; more than any other candidate, as you say, it's "not an intellectual exercise." It's very real.

I like a lot of the candidates this time around, probably lean toward Klobuchar more than anyone at this point, but from where I sit Buttigieg seems right up there with the best of 'em.
  #68  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:43 AM
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Really? Could he not be the American Trudeau? He's older than Pitt the Younger when the latter became Prime Minister.
Trudeau took the Liberla leadership following 2 disastrous previous leaders and two failed elections. There no real equivalent to that in the US system.

As for becoming PM that was, as usual in Canada, through exhaustion with the existing government, and failure by the NDP. It’s much clearer in the Canadian system who is to blame for policy than the US, so again...not quite the same.
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  #69  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:09 PM
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Yes really. Pete Buttigieg has no chance this time around because he's a nobody from nowhere and he has to overcome that first.
Obama was a nobody from nowhere.
  #70  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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Obama was a nobody from nowhere.
The hell you say.

He was a known name with buzz from that convention speech and his entry was a big will he or won’t he for quite a while. Pretty much soon as he announced he polled in second place in a crowded field.
  #71  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:11 PM
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He was a known name with buzz from that convention speech
And before that?

Just as Obama made a splash, so Buttegieg appears to have made a splash. Only time - and American voters - will tell if anything comes of it
  #72  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:11 PM
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In addition to "the nomination speech," Obama was elected to the US Senate four years before he was elected President. true, he was in his first term as a senator, but there's really nowhere to go from the US Senate other than to the Presidency. Mayor of the 300th largest US city is...not exactly the US Senate.

Also, if Chicago (and more generally IL) is "from nowhere," what's "from somewhere"? Chicago is the third largest city in the US, as influential in business and politics as essentially anywhere else in the country; Illinois is either the fifth or sixth most populous state. The US hasn't tended to be terribly concerned in the past about "coming from somewhere" where its presidential candidates are concerned (see Bill Clinton, Bob Dole, Bernie Sanders...), but if it's a consideration, hard to see how we do much better than Obama in that department.
  #73  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:13 PM
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Obama was a nobody from nowhere.
You didn't ask if he could be the American Obama. You asked if he could be the American Trudeau.

He also can't be the American Obama because, among other things, Obama is the American Obama.

Here's a post of mine comparing Tulsi Gabbard to Obama, but the same argument applies to Pete Buttegieg.

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2004 Democratic National Convention keynote address: Reception

"That is an amazing moment in history right there. It is surely an amazing moment. A keynoter like I have never heard. [...] I have seen the first black president there." - Chris Matthews

"This is why you go to conventions, to watch a speech like this." - David Brooks

"A star is born." - Mark Shields

"If he wrote that speech, then he should be president, because it's such a great speech. If he didn't, he should be president because he found such a great speechwriter." - Hendrik Hertzberg

"He is a star...For Barack, the sky's the limit." - Michael Madigan

"It was such a moving speech that I had tears in my eyes...It was electrifying. When I looked around the room, all across the people were so emotional, tears in their eyes. They're crying." - Emil Jones

"I thought that was one of the most electrifying moments that I can remember at any convention." - Hillary Clinton

"When Obama runs for the White House, he will run not as a candidate for blacks. He has the capacity to run as a candidate for everyone." - Artur Davis

If Tulsi Gabbard had a moment like this in 2016, I must have missed it.
  #74  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:21 PM
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Also, if Chicago (and more generally IL) is "from nowhere," what's "from somewhere"?
For this foreigner, a place like New York, Washington, LA, SF...

Quote:
Chicago is the third largest city in the US
Really? Wow. There was me thinking that apart from being the home of the Straight Dope it was part of the decrepit, derelict, corrupt Rust Belt like Detroit. Ignorance fought.
  #75  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:23 PM
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And before that?

Just as Obama made a splash, so Buttegieg appears to have made a splash. Only time - and American voters - will tell if anything comes of it
He has not made a splash.

March, 17 2007 Obama was the choice of 25.1% of democratic primary voters according to his RCP (2008 Dem Primary) average.

Right now RCP (2020 Dem Primary) isn't even tracking Pete Buttegieg's average. The most recent Morning Consult poll has him at 1%.

He has no chance to win because at this point in the cycle he's a nobody from nowhere. Neither Obama nor Trudeau had that problem at this point in the cycle.
  #76  
Old 03-17-2019, 02:42 PM
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In addition to "the nomination speech," Obama was elected to the US Senate four years before he was elected President. true, he was in his first term as a senator, but there's really nowhere to go from the US Senate other than to the Presidency. Mayor of the 300th largest US city is...not exactly the US Senate.

Also, if Chicago (and more generally IL) is "from nowhere," what's "from somewhere"? Chicago is the third largest city in the US, as influential in business and politics as essentially anywhere else in the country; Illinois is either the fifth or sixth most populous state. The US hasn't tended to be terribly concerned in the past about "coming from somewhere" where its presidential candidates are concerned (see Bill Clinton, Bob Dole, Bernie Sanders...), but if it's a consideration, hard to see how we do much better than Obama in that department.
I would actually say that being a mayor rather than a senator is a huge mark in Buttegig's favor. I would prefer Governor or mayor or a larger city, but I think Senators generally make poor executives unless they have executive experience elsewhere (like Booker has, for example) . Being mayor is much better prep.

Last edited by NAF1138; 03-17-2019 at 02:46 PM.
  #77  
Old 03-17-2019, 03:09 PM
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It’s not necessarily about being mayor, it’s about being elected mayor as an openly gay man in the city with a conservative Roman Catholic university that dominates the city.
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  #78  
Old 03-17-2019, 03:14 PM
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For this foreigner, a place like New York, Washington, LA, SF...
The last president from New York City was Teddy Roosevelt? Never had one from DC, though Al Gore came the closest. Nixon was from near LA ("Son of Orange County" "I just can't believe you are such a fool!"), so much for that one.

Our next president is from near San Francisco. Oakland, to be precise.
  #79  
Old 03-17-2019, 05:19 PM
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At the very least, he should be able to get into the House, since presumably his district would have a large overlap with the city that elected him Mayor.
Here is a link to the incumbent for Indiana's 2nd district:
https://www.google.com/search?client...71.T7Mqp6INt-g

Here's a link to a map of Indiana's 2nd Congressional district:
https://www.google.com/search?client...60.rWePQwaLKbQ

I live in the City of Elkhart, considering the entire district, those of us who would favor a Democratic candidate are mighty thin on the ground.

Now a Senate race, Indiana has elected Democrats to the US Senate, so I wouldn't rule that out, however, as has been noted Indiana is strongly Republican.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:47 PM
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Well, this is very interesting. For myself, I'm all in for Mayor Pete, and for all the reasons mentioned. As for experience, there are past presidents who have had as little experience. Some did well, some didn't, I leave it to the reader to decide which is which, and who goes where. I live not far from South Bend, I've gotten positive vibes for Mayor Pete from S.B. folk I know. Back to the experience issue, in more than one of Mayor Pete's interviews, he has noted that he's had more government experience then Mr. Trump and Mr.Pence combined.

Respectfully Zuer-coli
  #81  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:04 PM
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He has not made a splash.
He's been picked up by the press. That's a splash for me.
  #82  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:20 PM
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Back to the experience issue, in more than one of Mayor Pete's interviews, he has noted that he's had more government experience then Mr. Trump and Mr.Pence combined.
How?

Near as I can tell, Pence became VP in January of ‘17 after he was a Governor from January of ‘13 to January of ‘17, after he was a Congressman from January of ‘01 to January of ‘13. Near as I can tell, Buttigieg was a teen who was still in college in January of ‘01; isn’t Pence ahead even without Trump’s years as president?
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:38 PM
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He taught himself Norwegian because the other books by a Norwegian author he liked hadn't been translated. If that alone doesn't make him the opposite of Donald Trump, who never bothered to read the books that he supposedly wrote in the language that he supposedly speaks, then I don't know what could.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:45 PM
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He's been picked up by the press. That's a splash for me.
That's just silly.

Remember that Morning Consult poll from last week that I linked to earlier? They asked a favorable/unfavorable question of Democratic primary voters about 16 Dem candidates. Guess who's doing the worst in the, "Never heard of," department.

He may have made a splash for you, but every other candidate has made a bigger splash.

Code:
Candidate		Never heard of
Pete Buttigieg		62%
John Hickenlooper	59%
Jay Inslee		59%
Steve Bullock		56%
Tulsi Gabbard		52%
John Delaney		47%
Terry McAuliffe		46%
Amy Klobuchar		38%
Julian Castro		36%
Kirsten Gillibrand	31%
Beto O'Rourke		30%
Cory Booker		25%
Kamala Harris		21%
Elizabeth Warren	11%
Joe Biden		3%
Bernie Sanders		2%

Last edited by Lance Turbo; 03-17-2019 at 06:46 PM.
  #85  
Old 03-17-2019, 06:54 PM
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How?

Near as I can tell, Pence became VP in January of ‘17 after he was a Governor from January of ‘13 to January of ‘17, after he was a Congressman from January of ‘01 to January of ‘13. Near as I can tell, Buttigieg was a teen who was still in college in January of ‘01; isn’t Pence ahead even without Trump’s years as president?
The accurate quote is more executive experience. Pete is only counting Pence's time as Governor.

Last edited by NAF1138; 03-17-2019 at 06:55 PM.
  #86  
Old 03-17-2019, 07:16 PM
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He may have made a splash for you,
And the BBC. And the Guardian.

Anyway, the profound ignorance of the American people is well-attested. After all, they elected Trump.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:11 PM
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It’s not necessarily about being mayor, it’s about being elected mayor as an openly gay man in the city with a conservative Roman Catholic university that dominates the city.
Meh. South Bend is a historically blue collar, union-first type rust belt city that has a strong Democratic history. And as a Catholic school, Notre Dame has also been historically progressive. It's conservative only as it relates to your average public university - it's no Ann Arbor or Bloomington.
  #88  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:43 PM
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I think it would be great to have an openly gay candidate make a serious run, maybe get tapped for VP. But it should be someone like Tammy Baldwin who has reached a higher office. If we were to even consider a mayor as a presidential contender, it ought to be one who presides over one of the largest cities in the country.
And you have managed to miss the point of my post. Yeah, he's gay. Got it.

Young. Rhodes scholar. Decorated veteran of the war in Afghanistan. Charismatic and able to hold people's attention. Born and raised in the Midwest. Gets high marks from business groups such as the Chamber of Commerce. Very popular with constituents in a deeply GOP state. Who else running as a Democrat does this apply to?

Those are the things that make him appealing to me. And yeah, being a middle aged gay man the fact he is gay as well is something I appreciate. But it isn't the main thing I like about him.

Take a few minutes and watch an interview with him and let us know what you think. I doubt he stands a chance of getting the nomination or being elected President in 2020. However, if he manages to get into the debates I expect to see his popularity grow and who knows where that could go. He simply has a quality that I feel people will be drawn toward. At a minimum I expect him to be a serious voice of the party in the future.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 03-17-2019 at 11:45 PM.
  #89  
Old 03-18-2019, 02:30 PM
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And the BBC. And the Guardian.

Anyway, the profound ignorance of the American people is well-attested. After all, they elected Trump.
Pot, meet kettle. *cough*Brexit*cough*

As has been already noted, Buttigieg comes across very well -- well-spoken, smart, charismatic, but also self-effacing. And, in reading about him, I see that, while he hasn't served in elected office other than the mayorship, he served in Naval Intelligence, as well as some work for William Cohen's consulting firm, and working on John Kerry's presidential campaign as a policy specialist. So, i don't necessarily think that his experience level is too thin, even if he's never been in Congress.

He's made appearances on a lot of talk shows and news shows here in the U.S. in recent weeks, but, as noted, his big challenge is that he's starting with extremely low name recognition (much less voters knowing much about him).

It's still early in the campaign, but with so many better-known candidates already in the race, including, now, Beto O'Rourke, who probably is going to wind up occupying a similar space on voters' perceptual maps (i.e., "smart charismatic energetic white moderate"), he faces a tremendous uphill battle just to make his presence known.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-18-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:06 PM
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Buttigieg only has more executive experience than Pence if you're just counting total number of years of any sort of executive experience. But experience as a mayor of a middling-sized town is not the same thing as experience as a governor. A more reasonable measure might be number of year-constituents, multiplying the time by the population. The mayor of a big city like New York or Chicago could compete here (either's population is greater than Arkansas', for instance, but governor of Arkansas was a sufficient qualification for the Presidency), but South Bend?

And even that still isn't a completely fair comparison, because a mayor of even the biggest cities is still subordinate in some degree to that state's governor, but a governor isn't subordinate to anyone.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:41 PM
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Pot, meet kettle. *cough*Brexit*cough*
Agreed.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:08 PM
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Take a few minutes and watch an interview with him and let us know what you think.

I watched his "Meet Pete" video, and an interview with Colbert.

He's very smart and articulate, but he also looks very young, even for 37 (which is young in presidential politics even if you don't look young for your age), and has a weak chin. Seems like the kind of guy who ought to aim for a career as an appointed official in Democratic administrations, something like that.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:23 PM
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I watched his "Meet Pete" video, and an interview with Colbert.

He's very smart and articulate, but he also looks very young, even for 37 (which is young in presidential politics even if you don't look young for your age), and has a weak chin. Seems like the kind of guy who ought to aim for a career as an appointed official in Democratic administrations, something like that.
Stated like a classic geniophobe. There are therapies available for that.

And as to his youth, pretty sure concerns about that will change over the next few years.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 03-18-2019 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:41 PM
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A weak chin? A WEAK CHIN?! Oh my GOD, are you telling me......

....that he has.....

..a..

WEAK CHIN?!?!?!?!

This is finally the break that the Chaffee campaign has been waiting for!
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:42 AM
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I’d say a successful mayor is much better than any president we have had in a long time. As a mayor, your constituents can easily escape to surrounding counties without much change to their lives. You cannot print money or go into tremendous debt.

As president, in most cases, the only way people can escape is through a drastic life change. There are little constraints beyond politics, and usually no real constraints on major issues.

As a mayor you must satisfy the pols and the people or else your town or city will see ruin pretty quickly. Most towns and cities are also diverse economically and socially. As president you can travel the US talking to the same people and cobble together a plurality (Hi Trump). As mayor, you may be forced to deal with people who are, gasp, different. Your press as mayor will be less alternately fawning or hyperbolic. You actually need to have real dialogues.

Governors are a little different and it depends on the state, but yes, they must be better than presidents as well.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:23 AM
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And the BBC. And the Guardian.

Anyway, the profound ignorance of the American people is well-attested. After all, they elected Trump.
That's funny coming from someone that just made an ass out of themselves regarding Chicago.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:53 AM
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That's funny coming from someone that just made an ass out of themselves regarding Chicago.
Tell me, do you know about equivalent cities in other countries? Thought not.

At least I am able to admit my ignorance and learn from education.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:11 PM
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He's very smart and articulate, but he also looks very young, even for 37 (which is young in presidential politics even if you don't look young for your age), and has a weak chin.
He does have a little bit of the "high school science club" look to him. Then again, the current occupant of the office has a double chin, an elaborately bizarre combover hairstyle, and what appears to be a spray-on skin tone that doesn't occur in nature.

So, looks don't necessarily preclude electoral success.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:51 PM
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I'd be astonished if more than 5% of Americans know what or where Malta is. I think the most common association people have with the word Maltese is "a type of dog."

So no, knowing the origin of the name is not going to help anyone.

This guy's path to political success should be obvious - make his first name his brand. I'm not really aware of anyone noteworthy in American politics at the present time named Pete. That means essentially that "the username is available", and he should just throw that name out there in the same way that "Bernie" did and if he does it properly, there will be no confusion about which Pete it is. If he has advisers working for his campaign who know what they're doing, someone will have already told him this.
I was going to say he came from a prominent Falconer family but not because I don't know what or where Malta is but because I have a juvenile sense of humor.

I was also thinking that if you said his name 3 times it would summon him but again, same reason.

In seriousness I do want to learn more about him as everything I've heard about him seems positive.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:42 PM
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He does have a little bit of the "high school science club" look to him. Then again, the current occupant of the office has a double chin, an elaborately bizarre combover hairstyle, and what appears to be a spray-on skin tone that doesn't occur in nature.

So, looks don't necessarily preclude electoral success.

Yeah, Trump is pretty ugly at this point. But he was once a pretty handsome guy, and I think that was still fairly true when his show "The Apprentice" started. People tend to sort of give people (or at least men) credit for that, I think.

I'd add that "Trump won, so let's emulate his success" arguments don't fly with me. For one, he's not a Democrat, and we can't just use the same playbook. For two, he lost the popular vote by three million and won the EC thanks to a GOP skew and some very narrow wins in just the right states. For three, he's the most consistently unpopular president since such things began to be polled nearly a century ago.
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