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  #151  
Old 07-23-2019, 12:15 PM
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That said, I’ve no faith that Boris is up to the task of running the country. I give him two years before he’s kicked out, and that’s being charitable.
I give him until 1 November. Given the numbers I don’t see how an effective Conservative government can function, even with (or in spite of) the DUP propping it up. A general election can’t be far off and I still think it will be this year.

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  #152  
Old 07-23-2019, 12:17 PM
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I have to make a small objection, here. Boris is an idiot by the standards of the British political class. Trump is an idiot by the standards of idiots. Like, if all the world’s village idiots got together on a mission to track down the biggest, brashest, ball-achingly boneheaded dumbfuck imaginable, their search would end when they found Donald Trump.

Boris is basically a walking embodiment of the Peter Principle. In a sane world, he probably wouldn’t have risen beyond the rank of mid-level civil servant, and he’d probably have done a halfway decent job. If Trump wasn’t a Trump, he’d be packing boxes during the day and getting drunk on vodka in plastic bottles at night.

That said, I’ve no faith that Boris is up to the task of running the country. I give him two years before he’s kicked out, and that’s being charitable.
You'll get no dispute from me on this....Trump is King Idiot. Just the whole Brexit and economic fallout if it somehow goes through that makes it appear more dangerous. Crazy times.
  #153  
Old 07-23-2019, 01:45 PM
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Personally, I'm excited about the elevation of Boris Johnson to world leader. Perhaps now a rumpled appearance with uncombed hair will become stylish and I'll be hip for the first and only time in my life.
  #154  
Old 07-23-2019, 01:49 PM
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US elects Trump. UK says "hold my beer."
:: golf clap ::
  #155  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:35 PM
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In addition to their relative (Johnson) and absolute (Trump) incompetence, my biggest fear is that the next time they get together their hair will mate and produce something unknown (but unspeakable).
  #156  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:43 PM
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson" still seems like a punchline. Mock The Week is going to be comedy gold for the foreseeable future.
I cannot express how sad it makes me that Have I Got News For You is off at the moment and won't be back until October-ish.
  #157  
Old 07-23-2019, 05:25 PM
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You know that the USA and the UK have a 'special relationship'?

Now they both have leaders who are lying incompetent narcissistic adulterous buffoons.
  #158  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:38 PM
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US elects Trump. UK says "hold my beer."


"Hold my pint," surely?
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  #159  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:39 AM
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I’ll hold your pint but don’t call me Shirley.
  #160  
Old 07-24-2019, 02:32 AM
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson" still seems like a punchline. Mock The Week is going to be comedy gold for the foreseeable future.
And The Daily Mash
  #161  
Old 07-24-2019, 03:55 AM
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I suspect the DUP will stay on board but will want something more for their troubles [sic]. A billion quid just doesn't last as long as it used to.
Just to toot my own horn: this came up virtually as I was writing my previous post last night: DUP to demand more cash for propping up Tories

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Arlene Foster tells incoming prime minister the £1bn-plus confidence and supply agreement must be renewed ‘over the coming weeks’
Nailed it!
  #162  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:36 AM
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I give him until 1 November. Given the numbers I don’t see how an effective Conservative government can function, even with (or in spite of) the DUP propping it up. A general election can’t be far off and I still think it will be this year.
I’m not sure I even give him that long. As other have noted, the Conservatives have a minority government with a working majority based on the supply and confidence agreement with the DUP. That working majority has been whittled down over the past months and is now down to 2. There’s a by-election on 01 August where it will probably go down to 1.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ity-parliament

That means Boris needs to avoid:
• Conservative hard-line Remain MP’s switching allegiance to the Liberal-Democrat party
• Conservative MP’s deciding to go into the private sector rather than stay in a Johnson parliament
• Conservative MP’s voting no-confidence as a last-ditch measure to prevent a No-Deal Brexit.
• Conservative MP’s denouncing and declaring no-confidence in him because he’s been a buffoon and done something racist or misogynistic
• Unbalanced attrition due to death, retirement, crime, etc.
• A coordinated absence that’s notified to Jeremy Corbyn
There are rumours that different MP’s are already planning the first three. Boris’s majority is starting off on a knife’s edge, and he’s not the type of careful, meticulous personality that operates well on a knife’s edge.

Side questions: When was the last time a UK Prime Minister was primarily identified by their first name? Do posters think there will eventually be a shift in the press and popular media to Prime Minister Johnson as the working default, or will Boris continue to be identified primarily as Boris?
  #163  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:52 AM
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Side questions: When was the last time a UK Prime Minister was primarily identified by their first name?
Define "primarily identified". The obvious example is Thatcher.

But depending on who would be talking about them, and to which audience, or which name suited headlines better, it could happen to others. "Tony", "John", "Call me Dave" and, at a pinch, "Gordon" might be too commonplace to be recognisable out of context, but in a political discussion wouldn't.

Nobody here would say "Prime Minister X". It would either be "The Prime Minister", or "Mr/Ms X", or "AX", or "that ***!*! X".

Last edited by PatrickLondon; 07-24-2019 at 05:55 AM.
  #164  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:35 AM
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Side questions: When was the last time a UK Prime Minister was primarily identified by their first name? Do posters think there will eventually be a shift in the press and popular media to Prime Minister Johnson as the working default, or will Boris continue to be identified primarily as Boris?
Churchill was often referred to as 'Winston' by the public and press, even though it was a more formal era. I doubt whether there was anyone before that.

There is a certain amount of backlash against 'Boris', because it makes him sound too pleasant and harmless, but it will probably stick because he is so much of a 'character'.
  #165  
Old 07-24-2019, 07:03 AM
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• Conservative MP’s denouncing and declaring no-confidence in him because he’s been a buffoon and done something racist or misogynistic
But in this case, he'd be guaranteed a post-political career as a commentator to American audiences. Or heck, maybe a job in the current administration.
  #166  
Old 07-24-2019, 08:36 AM
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• Conservative MP’s denouncing and declaring no-confidence in him because he’s been a buffoon and done something racist or misogynistic
They wouldn't do that - at least half of Parliament is filled with buffoons that have done something racist or misogynistic. It'd be a dangerous precedent.
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:42 AM
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"Boris" is too punchy and immediately-recognizable not to remain his media handle in most contexts. He'll be "the Prime Minister" in only the most formal contexts.
  #168  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:03 AM
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They wouldn't do that - at least half of Parliament is filled with buffoons that have done something racist or misogynistic. It'd be a dangerous precedent.
“They” wouldn’t. Two of “them” might. How little would it take for BoJo to piss Justine Greening off – one bad joke about lesbianism? Tracey Crouch is a principled MP and outspoken feminist who has voted against the government in the past. Helen Grant is a Remainer and a black woman with progressive social values and little political patronage due to past scandals. Johnson will probably receive some level of party loyalty from these three and others like them, but little personal loyalty. If Johnson commits some kind of misogynistic or racist gaffe, these three, and I’m sure there are others like them including male MP’s, could easily turn against him. A Prime Minister can usually manage a few dissident back-benchers. Johnson doesn’t have that luxury.
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:45 PM
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Now I've got the old "Boris the Spider" song by the Who running through my head. The overall sentiment of something creepy you want to smash into the ground seems fitting somehow.
  #170  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:59 PM
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The new cabinet so far:

Home Secretary: Bellatrix Lestrange
Foreign Secretary: Walden "Executioner" Macnair
Chancellor: Peter "Wormtail" Pettigrew
Brexit Secretary: Lucius Malfoy
Defence Secretary: Barty Crouch Jr.
  #171  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:08 PM
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So is May staying on in Parliament as a backbencher, or is she resigning as an MP too.
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  #172  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:10 PM
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This article says she's going to stay an MP, but it's over a month old. I can't find any newer statements.
  #173  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:02 PM
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This article says she's going to stay an MP, but it's over a month old. I can't find any newer statements.
In her farewell remarks today she said she would remain as a backbench MP. We'll see how long that lasts - it's not easy for an ex-PM to adjust to the reduced role.
  #174  
Old 07-24-2019, 07:45 PM
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There is a certain amount of backlash against 'Boris', because it makes him sound too pleasant and harmless, but it will probably stick because he is so much of a 'character'.
Makes me think of Boris and Natasha and their dastardly plots against Moose and Squirrel, but that may just be me.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:46 PM
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True, but if her leaving were to contribute to a by-election lost to the Opposition and even tighter voting lines for the government to stay in power, I can see her staying on for the nonce.
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  #176  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:29 PM
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Here's the NYT's coverage of the changeover at Number Ten: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/w...-minister.html
  #177  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:04 AM
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The new cabinet so far:

Home Secretary: Bellatrix Lestrange
Foreign Secretary: Walden "Executioner" Macnair
Chancellor: Peter "Wormtail" Pettigrew
Brexit Secretary: Lucius Malfoy
Defence Secretary: Barty Crouch Jr.
Leader of the House of Commons: Lord Snooty.

This is what happens when Just William and the Outlaws take over.
  #178  
Old 07-25-2019, 03:43 AM
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This is what happens when Just William and the Outlaws take over.
Nothing so harmless as that. This is a government of hard-right extremists.

Underneath his pleasant public persona, Johnson is cold, arrogant, amoral, devious, and incompetent. He bears grudges for many years, and pays them back. It seems like the people who know him best like him least.

"He is a far more ruthless, and frankly nastier, figure than the public appreciates."
  — Max Hastings
  #179  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:00 AM
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I'm not sure I understand the logic of him purging so many ministers. I'd understand it if he had a large majority to work with, but can he afford to make any more enemies than he already had?

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 07-25-2019 at 04:02 AM.
  #180  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:34 AM
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I'm not sure I understand the logic of him purging so many ministers. I'd understand it if he had a large majority to work with, but can he afford to make any more enemies than he already had?
Boris brings a flash of the mafioso into Downing Street

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Once, Boris Johnson’s sister Rachel had to give some bad news to someone who wanted a favour from the man who has become our new prime minister. This old friend had once been close to Boris, but had crossed him, some years ago. Boris wasn’t going to help: “He’s quite Sicilian, you see” she explained.

It is no surprise either, that Johnson’s favourite film, more a training video, is The Godfather. No surprise, either, that virtually every Huntite in the Cabinet – including Hunt himself – has been fired. Penny Mordaunt and Liam Fox possessed impeccable Brexiteer credentials, but Fox publicly doubted the Johnson strategy, while Mordaunt's job was required by any number of flag-waving Johnson capos. So Fox was garrotted and poor Penny left in the cold store.

...

This is also a Cabinet that is required to learn the Johnson Brexit catechism – in effect an oath of loyalty to the doctrine of Brexit “do or die”, including the belief in no deal Brexit if necessary. It also amounts to a personal oath of loyalty to Johnson himself.

It’s a bit creepy – a bit like a mafia ritual – and made all the more so with the arrival of the lies of Dominic Cummings, a sort of consigliore. Inside No 10, Godfather Boris is surrounded by his made men, the not-so-Goodfellas of Brexit and his days running City Hall like a Chicago mobster. An exaggeration, I know, but the cult of Boris is real and its devotees dangerous. Ever since he was manipulating “stooges” at the Oxford Union to further his career, he has employed every dark art in every job he has ever had. The Bullingdon Club’s codes, absurd and arrogant as they are, also have mafia-esque overtones. I don’t suppose I need mention that business with Darius Guppy.
  #181  
Old 07-25-2019, 05:45 PM
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I don’t suppose I need mention that business with Darius Guppy.
Nor that nastiness with Ann Chovy.
  #182  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:39 AM
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Damn you - I almost Googled her!

Here's CNN's coverage of Johnson's taking the reins: https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/24/uk/bo...ntl/index.html
  #183  
Old 07-27-2019, 04:09 AM
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If anyone ever deserved to be called a grammar Nazi...

Jacob Rees-Mogg's language rules for his staff
  #184  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:37 AM
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Johnson will wait a few weeks to see if the polls shake out as he expects, indicating a big swing to the Tories from the Brexit party. If so, he will call a snap election.

People on the other side of the political spectrum are severely underestimating him. Yes, he's going to fuck up. A lot. But he's done a remarkable job of immunising himself against the negative effects of his own foolishness. He's like Trump but with thicker skin.

His first exchange with Jeremy Corbyn was instructive. The latter went on the offensive, looking to trip or embarrass the new PM on his first outing. Johnson absolutely eviscerated him. Contrary to the dogma on Labour's left wing, all Tories are not the same. Their man isn't up against Cameron or May anymore. Whatever one might think of their politics, both of them at least had some genuine beliefs and principles by which you might skewer them. Johnson, by contrast, does not give a solitary fuck about anything but Johnson. And, most importantly, his supporters are fully aware of this. That's why they gave him the job. For the original Corbyn, whose brand was built around clarity, principle, and authenticity, taking aim at Johnson's weaseling mendacity might have had some merit. For the current Corbyn, whose brand is now defined by his own weaseling mendacity on Brexit and anti-semitism, that approach was far too easily turned right back against him.

And herein lies the problem: while Corbyn and his supporters seem to have no idea how he looks to the world outside their bubble, Johnson and his supporters know exactly how he looks.

Last edited by Mrs McGinty; 07-27-2019 at 05:40 AM.
  #185  
Old 07-27-2019, 07:32 AM
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His first exchange with Jeremy Corbyn was instructive. The latter went on the offensive, looking to trip or embarrass the new PM on his first outing. Johnson absolutely eviscerated him.
Something his opponents ignore at their peril is that Johnson was president of the Oxford Union - a world-famous debating society. Among other things, they host competitive debating competitions.

Johnson knows all the tricks of rhetoric and debate, and can probably name the exact rhetorical devices and logical fallacies he is so unscrupulously using. Unlike Trump, he is not stupid. His opponents will have to up their game to win a debate with him. Corbyn is not capable of it, but perhaps some others are.
  #186  
Old 07-27-2019, 07:51 AM
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Johnson will wait a few weeks to see if the polls shake out as he expects, indicating a big swing to the Tories from the Brexit party. If so, he will call a snap election.
I agree. He's appointed Dominic Cummings as his chief advisor - the brains behind the Brexit referendum, and a man whom David Cameron described as a 'career psychopath'. He makes Steve Bannon look like a harmless kitten.

Cummings is there to run an election campaign, and he will do it ruthlessly and effectively.
  #187  
Old 07-27-2019, 07:55 AM
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The best hope if there's an election is that the Lib Dems will hold the balance of power, if not anything approaching a majority, and inject a little bit of sense into proceedings. A battle between an ego-driven career politician who only wants to recognise the economic interests of a minority of the population, and has a questionable history when it comes to racism, and his mirror image on the other side, helps no-one.
  #188  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:14 AM
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rumor has it the Queen does not like Boris because he is an adulterer. Does she think it's OK for an adulterer to be the next king when she dies? I guess she's OK with Charles taking over or maybe she is not but she cannot stop him.
  #189  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:35 AM
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Does she think it's OK for an adulterer to be the next king when she dies?
I mean, she probably would have preferred he hadn't been an adulterer.

And just as Ms. Symonds was not invited to the Palace, neither was Camilla for quite a while, until it became obvious that she was not going away, and that her exclusion was going to result in more and worse problems than her inclusion. The Queen wouldn't even attend her son's 50th birthday party, as Camilla was the de facto hostess.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 07-27-2019 at 09:38 AM.
  #190  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:26 PM
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I agree. He's appointed Dominic Cummings as his chief advisor - the brains behind the Brexit referendum, and a man whom David Cameron described as a 'career psychopath'. He makes Steve Bannon look like a harmless kitten.

Cummings is there to run an election campaign, and he will do it ruthlessly and effectively.
It's not quite cricket to appoint someone to a post in HMG who was held in contempt of Parliament just four months ago, is it?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domini...European_Union
  #191  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:43 PM
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He is one strange character. I read his Wikipedia article. Even with all of that, my takeaway is that he's still not even 1/10th as fucked up as Donald Trump. The idea of Trump studying classics at Oxford or being the assistant editor of a newspaper makes this Onion article about George W. Bush regaling dinner guests with an impromptu oratory on Virgil's minor works sound downright plausible.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:18 AM
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Boris Johnson is intelligent, and he's an exceptional entertainer when he's in 'clown mode'. But he is utterly and completely self-centred and amoral. His lies are as blatant as those of Trump. Also, you can tell his real character by the company he keeps.

If you want to see Boris Johnson at his very best, watch the video below. Even though it's long, it's worth it.

It's a formal debate before a large audience about which is better, ancient Greece or ancient Rome. Johnson argues for Greece and Mary Beard argues for Rome.

When the audience arrived they were asked to vote for either Greece or Rome, and at the end they were asked to vote again. They voted for Greece before the debate, but Mary Beard succeeded in changing their minds and they voted for Rome at the end. Although Boris Johnson loses the debate, he argues knowledgeably, competently, and persuasively, and in the end loses with good grace.

Greece vs Rome, with Boris Johnson and Mary Beard
  #193  
Old 07-29-2019, 04:25 AM
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I like Ancient Greece. And I like Ancient Rome. But which is better? There's only one way to find out...
  #194  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:44 AM
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I like Ancient Greece. And I like Ancient Rome. But which is better? There's only one way to find out...
That seems to be strangely narrow and short-sighted view, to compare them in terms of military power. Military power was hardly mentioned in the debate.

Boris Johnson gave a rousing and inspiring opening speech - but filled with major omissions, distortions and inaccuracies as soon as you looked a little closer.

Mary Beard promoted Rome as a far more inclusive society than Greece, welcoming immigrants and refugees, incorporating people from all cultures, freeing slaves, giving more independence to women, making urban living and government work well on a large scale. She pointed out that people today would feel far more at home in Rome than Greece.

Last edited by GreenWyvern; 07-29-2019 at 05:45 AM.
  #195  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:52 AM
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That seems to be strangely narrow and short-sighted view, to compare them in terms of military power. Military power was hardly mentioned in the debate.

Boris Johnson gave a rousing and inspiring opening speech - but filled with major omissions, distortions and inaccuracies as soon as you looked a little closer.

Mary Beard promoted Rome as a far more inclusive society than Greece, welcoming immigrants and refugees, incorporating people from all cultures, freeing slaves, giving more independence to women, making urban living and government work well on a large scale. She pointed out that people today would feel far more at home in Rome than Greece.
Just in case it's unclear, in the phrasing Gyrate was referencing a running gag on Harry Hill's TV Burp. Google "only one way to find out" and you'll get the idea. I don't think he was actually suggesting military prowess was the main/only indicator of who is best.

Last edited by Mr Shine; 07-29-2019 at 05:53 AM.
  #196  
Old 07-29-2019, 06:05 AM
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Just in case it's unclear, in the phrasing Gyrate was referencing a running gag on Harry Hill's TV Burp. Google "only one way to find out" and you'll get the idea. I don't think he was actually suggesting military prowess was the main/only indicator of who is best.
Sorry - in my head my inside jokes are more obvious and less... inside.
  #197  
Old 07-29-2019, 06:43 AM
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Sorry, I've never seen the show.
  #198  
Old 07-29-2019, 07:20 AM
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The main segment on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver last night was about Boris Johnson. John's argument was that Boris' disheveled hairstyle, speaking style and dress are all carefully calculated. It's not something I've thought of previously.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
The main segment on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver last night was about Boris Johnson. John's argument was that Boris' disheveled hairstyle, speaking style and dress are all carefully calculated. It's not something I've thought of previously.
Yes, it's all an act.

Here's a wonderful story about how carefully and deliberately Johnson designs his act of being a disorganised clown:

My Boris Johnson story
by Jeremy Vine
  #200  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:16 AM
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It makes him seem more evil than Trump, who appears to be naked in his narcissism and greed.
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