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  #51  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:42 AM
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Because a lot of people are not nice people.

Because a lot of people don't care if it's not them or someone they care about affected.

But... getting back to the original question...

IF the camps and the conditions in them are sufficiently publicized it may have an anti-Trump effect at election time.

IF the media does not sufficiently show the bad conditions and call into question the morality of the situation then no, it will have no effect on the upcoming election.
  #52  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:43 AM
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I would suspect that a significant number of Trump supporters see it as a dichotomy - that it's either keep illegal immigrants in camps, or let them wander about freely in America. And that as long as the only viable alternative to "concentration camps" is "Let them roam about," then they won't oppose the camps.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:48 AM
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I would suspect that a significant number of Trump supporters see it as a dichotomy - that it's either keep illegal immigrants in camps, or let them wander about freely in America. And that as long as the only viable alternative to "concentration camps" is "Let them roam about," then they won't oppose the camps.
Do you not think a significant number of Americans, not just Trump supporters, see this as a dichotomy? What do you think anti-Trump people want to happen?
  #54  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:51 AM
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So while a lot of Americans want to get butt hurt about this all of a sudden in actual fact they approve of it, and if the cost of food, lawnmowing, new homes, and nannies went up they'd scream bloody murder - because if there are no more illegal aliens to do these jobs for a pittance either they go undone or they'll have to pay Americans a higher wage to do it. So yes, the majority of Americans are in favor of illegally entering workers whether they realize it or not.
Out of curiosity: what the heck do you figure Iíd have to do to clearly establish that, no, Iím not in favor of it and do not in actual fact approve of it?
When possible, purchase "fair trade" foods and commodities and items that you can establish are harvested by legal residents (whether citizens or here with permission). This will cost a little bit more, it is true, but put your money where your mouth is.

Hire workers for your maintenance/construction/childcare needs that can prove they are here legally (whether citizen or here with permission), or if you go through a third party, ask for assurances they their employees are such. Again, this will cost you more money but put your money where your mouth is.

Of course, as a person on the internet I can't check up on you, and frankly, I'm not interested in that sort of job anyway, but the more people who "vote" in the manner I outline above the less of an unwanted migration problem we'll have.

Less - because some of these people are not so much running towards the US as away from some terrible thing where they came from. It could be lack of food due to crop failure. It could be fleeing from drug cartels and other sorts of criminal gangs. It could be a situation like Venezuela where a country has collapsed and remaining is more dangerous than leaving. You aren't going to "discourage" such people short of machine gun fire - I don't want to go to that extreme and I hope you don't either. When being locked up in jail is safer than staying home you're not going to stop such people from trying to enter the US... but it's not a justification for treating them like shit, either.
  #55  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:53 AM
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No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that people (whether children or not) who come to a place to request asylum are not in "the wrong place at the wrong time" as per the definitions put forth by iiandyiiii, making his definition of concentration camp non-applicable to those asylum seekers.
Yes they are (at least some of them, anyway). We might have different understandings of that phrase, but people doing the only things they can to survive but still being punished for it are "in the wrong place at the wrong time".
  #56  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:55 AM
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IF the media does not sufficiently show the bad conditions and call into question the morality of the situation then no, it will have no effect on the upcoming election.
Well, it doesn't seem like there is that much media attention about it. If it was so bad, wouldn't it be on TV and on the front page of every newspaper every single day?
  #57  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:56 AM
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This is essentially a question about messaging. I think it's possible that the Democrats could tie the phrase "concentration camp" to the GOP with some very skilled and coordinated messaging, but I don't know if they're capable of that. I'd also like them to make the phrase "party of sexual assault" part of their regular rhetorical drumbeat, at least from the designated attack dogs (the actual candidates can use "nicer" rhetoric). But this would take some coordinated messaging that they may or may not be capable of.
  #58  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:07 AM
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This is essentially a question about messaging. I think it's possible that the Democrats could tie the phrase "concentration camp" to the GOP with some very skilled and coordinated messaging, but I don't know if they're capable of that. I'd also like them to make the phrase "party of sexual assault" part of their regular rhetorical drumbeat, at least from the designated attack dogs (the actual candidates can use "nicer" rhetoric). But this would take some coordinated messaging that they may or may not be capable of.
Forgot to mention that even a successful and coordinated use of these phrases, such that they're tied to the GOP to the same level that "big government" is tied to the Democrats, imight have no significant affect on the election, because so many Americans are fine with the idea of concentration camps for migrants and don't believe sexual assault is a significant problem. But in the long term, as attitudes change, these could be very effective attacks.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 06-19-2019 at 11:07 AM.
  #59  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:21 AM
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Yes, quite obviously. It would also fit "extermination camp" if these camps started exterminating them. They're being separated and "concentrated" in clearly substandard (from a human rights perspective) facilities.



If there weren't already a much more accurate word (prison), then yes.



There's a distinction, but it's not about what to call the camps. They're not prisons -- these aren't convicted criminals who received due process. There's no better descriptor for them than concentration camps.
You realize you can be jailed or detained even if you havenít been found guilty in a court? Migrants arenít randomly being rounded up. Those who are suspected of being here illegally are in some cases being detained. Just like people in the US who are suspected of other crimes may be put in a jail while awaiting trial.
  #60  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:22 AM
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Why isn't anyone warning these people that concentration camps await them at the US border? If there were actual concentration camps, wouldn't that dissuade them from coming? That seems like common sense.

I hope the Democrats continue to push this narrative. Most people have common sense and will see it as lies.
  #61  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:24 AM
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You realize you can be jailed or detained even if you havenít been found guilty in a court? Migrants arenít randomly being rounded up. Those who are suspected of being here illegally are in some cases being detained. Just like people in the US who are suspected of other crimes may be put in a jail while awaiting trial.
That they're also rounding up children demonstrates that this is an inaccurate representation of the facts.
  #62  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:25 AM
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Why isn't anyone warning these people that concentration camps await them at the US border? If there were actual concentration camps, wouldn't that dissuade them from coming? That seems like common sense.
When the alternative is death, as it is for many of these folks, then that wouldn't be much of a demotivator.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:27 AM
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I'm reminded of the torture supporters who had to tell themselves that waterboarding wasn't torture so they didn't have to admit to supporting torture and being sub-par human beings.
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  #64  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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I'm reminded of the torture supporters who had to tell themselves that waterboarding wasn't torture so they didn't have to admit to supporting torture and being sub-par human beings.
This is a good analogy, IMO.
  #65  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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This is essentially a question about messaging. I think it's possible that the Democrats could tie the phrase "concentration camp" to the GOP with some very skilled and coordinated messaging, but I don't know if they're capable of that. I'd also like them to make the phrase "party of sexual assault" part of their regular rhetorical drumbeat, at least from the designated attack dogs (the actual candidates can use "nicer" rhetoric). But this would take some coordinated messaging that they may or may not be capable of.
Do you think a majority of Americans would prefer that migrants crossing the border be given a court date and allowed to freely move about the country until that date?

Last edited by CarnalK; 06-19-2019 at 11:29 AM.
  #66  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:29 AM
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Do you think a majority of Americans would prefer that migrants crossing the border be given a court date and allowed to freely move about the country?
Probably not, but that's not the only alternative to concentration camps.
  #67  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:31 AM
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Out of curiosity: what the heck do you figure Iíd have to do to clearly establish that, no, Iím not in favor of it and do not in actual fact approve of it?
Personally, we've been giving money, in the form of prepaid gift cards, to a guy we know who owns a local Mexican restaurant and has ties to people back home. He is in direct contact with people who need help.
  #68  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:32 AM
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This is a good analogy, IMO.
I'm surprised it hasn't been made before.
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  #69  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:32 AM
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I think calling them "concentration camps" is intended to have electoral consequences and you damn well know it.
I mean, given that the calls of "CONCENTRATION CAMP!" are coming first and foremost from journalists. human rights activists, and historians, rather than, say, the DNC or Nancy Pelosi, I think the primary concern is "stop having concentration camps" rather than "cause electoral consequences". The electoral consequences come later, as a result of one party saying, "Hmm, you know what, maybe those historians are right and what's going on is a moral atrocity" and the other party saying "It's a shame we can't just shoot them at the border".

This is partially why I'm saying maybe don't say "it's not a concentration camp" if you're not bringing experts in (like, for example, this professor at NYU, or this german historian at the University of Erfurt who specializes in the holocaust). I hesitate to call it a unified front, but I also have yet to see a single actual expert dispute this take.

This is a partisan issue in the same way climate change is a partisan issue: the democrats are saying, "Hmm, maybe we should do something about this," the republicans are saying "I sense no danger here," and the experts are screaming, "HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS DO SOMETHING HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS SO FUCKED UP OH GOD WHY AREN'T YOU DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS". Calling these camps what these are will only be a problem for republicans because republicans like the camps.

Also, because I can, here's someone who, while not in any way a relevant expert, I find refreshingly straightforward:
Been giving it some thought and, you know, if you're someone who feels very particular about making sure the phrase "concentration camps" isn't applied 'inaccurately,' my advice is is to make sure your country isn't running anything even somewhat comprable to concentration camps.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:33 AM
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Do you think a majority of Americans would prefer that migrants crossing the border be given a court date and allowed to freely move about the country until that date?
I don't know or care what a majority of my fellow citizens think. That practice has been the norm until the present Administration.

If the Trump Administration, as an alternative, wanted to create some safe, humane facilities to house refugees while their cases were being adjudicated, that would be fine with me. But that's not what's happening, is it?
  #71  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:36 AM
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Yes they are (at least some of them, anyway). We might have different understandings of that phrase, but people doing the only things they can to survive but still being punished for it are "in the wrong place at the wrong time".
The only thing these people can do to survive is "request asylum in the United States"? There is absolutely nothing else that they can do?
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Probably not, but that's not the only alternative to concentration camps.
What's the alternative? Well provisioned Detention Centers?
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:38 AM
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Not to derail the thread, but what are the opponents of the camps suggesting as the alternative?

Putting the migrants in nicer facilities - maybe many rows of furnished houses, instead of a big camp? OK, that sounds good, but I don't think that's what they're suggesting.


Edit: CarnalK beat me to it.

Last edited by Velocity; 06-19-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:42 AM
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We'll cross the bridge of whether humane detention is acceptable if we ever get there. Alas, with this (mal)Adminstration, I don't think we'll have that "problem" any time soon.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:42 AM
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What's the alternative? Well provisioned Detention Centers?
Grant them all amnesty and welcome them. That would upset the supporters of these concentration camps, but fuck them.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:43 AM
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Why isn't anyone warning these people that concentration camps await them at the US border? If there were actual concentration camps, wouldn't that dissuade them from coming? That seems like common sense.

I hope the Democrats continue to push this narrative. Most people have common sense and will see it as lies.
The migrants are probably making the gamble that they can make it to a sanctuary city which seemingly are providing some incentive to break the law. The real problem are the people in the US who want open borders and are willing to tolerate illegal immigration for long ten demographic and political reasons.

To answer the OP, no this wonít hurt Trump anymore than the scandal surrounding Virginiaís governor hurt the governor.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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Trump could've started with keeping families intact, which the WWII-era Federal Government managed to do when it detained people it (wrongly) considered mortal enemies. He. Did. Not.
  #78  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:50 AM
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The only thing these people can do to survive is "request asylum in the United States"? There is absolutely nothing else that they can do?
In some cases, that's probably the only reasonably attainable possibility. Maybe "live in a shack in Mexico and slowly die of malnutrition or disease" is another reasonable possibility, but that kind of sounds like death too.

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What's the alternative? Well provisioned Detention Centers?
"Thank you for your application, here is your court date, please return at that time, here is a suggested charity-run housing facility in Mexico along with some lawyers' phone numbers" is one possiblity (suggested up thread); stay with a volunteer host family until your court date (weekly check-ins, or something like that); just two possibilities off the top of my head (and manson1972's, I think). I'm sure more creative folks can come up with a myriad of others.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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What's the alternative? Well provisioned Detention Centers?
We'd be happy to volunteer a spare bedroom for someone or a couple as a place to live while they await their court date.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:06 PM
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In some cases, that's probably the only reasonably attainable possibility. Maybe "live in a shack in Mexico and slowly die of malnutrition or disease" is another reasonable possibility, but that kind of sounds like death too
I don't know. Uganda, for some inexplicable reason, has been brought up as a place that is doing it correctly. I'm sure they can get a Ugandan style standard of living in almost any place besides the US.


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"Thank you for your application, here is your court date, please return at that time, here is a suggested charity-run housing facility in Mexico along with some lawyers' phone numbers" is one possiblity (suggested up thread); stay with a volunteer host family until your court date (weekly check-ins, or something like that); just two possibilities off the top of my head (and manson1972's, I think). I'm sure more creative folks can come up with a myriad of others.
I honestly don't know why we aren't doing this. Why go through all the problems with these camps when we don't have to?
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:07 PM
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Calling them concentration camps, which they are, going back to the British coining of the term in the Boer War, will only make his supporters, (and even some opponents), mock you because they are not Auschwitz.
This, pretty much.
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Also, quick meta note.

I'd rather we not discuss whether or not we're actually running concentration camps at the borders. At least if you don't have at least some form of expertise (say, a historian, or a holocaust expert) to weigh in with.
This, not so much.

The title of the OP makes the claim that Trump is running concentration camps. Unless you are a historian or a Holocaust expert, you should not be "weighing in" as you did. If you are a historian or a Holocaust expert, you will need to present some kind of reason why I should accept you as an authority.

Maybe you could get a mod to rephrase your title as a hypothetical - "If Trump Were Running Concentration Camps, What Effect Would That Have on His Re-election Chances?" or something like that.

I recognize how uncomfortable it can be to have someone challenge an unproven assertion, but that's kind of how we roll hereabouts.

But you do you.

FWIW, I didn't vote for Trump, but rhetoric about "Trump is a Nazi/Trump is running concentration camps/Trump is going to cancel the elections/Melania is changing her name to Eva" don't generate much outrage in me. Unless "derisive snickers" count as outrage.

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  #82  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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I honestly don't know why we aren't doing this. Why go through all the problems with these camps when we don't have to?
It's a feature, not a bug. Just like child-separation -- that was the point of the policy, to hurt families and children (for deterrent purposes). This is what the administration wants to do.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 06-19-2019 at 12:13 PM.
  #83  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:18 PM
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The title of the OP makes the claim that Trump is running concentration camps. Unless you are a historian or a Holocaust expert, you should not be "weighing in" as you did. If you are a historian or a Holocaust expert, you will need to present some kind of reason why I should accept you as an authority.
Over the course of the thread I have cited two historians, a journalist and author who is an expert on concentration camps, and several news pieces that cite many more. Most of these cites are in the OP, or in articles linked within the OP.

Like, I dunno if you know this, but when I said "According to experts, the Trump administration is running concentration camps at the border," the second half of the sentence was a hyperlink. It linked to this article which makes the claim and backs it up with testimony from:
  • Andrea Pitzer, author of One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps
  • Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia
  • Jonathan Hyslop, author of "The Invention of the Concentration Camp: Cuba, Southern Africa and the Philippines, 1896–1907," and a professor of sociology and anthropology at Colgate University

I am not talking on my own authority. The (false) claim that I am shows that you have not read the thread, the OP, or even the first sentence in any meaningful way. The fact that I am relying largely on expert testimony is downright hard to miss.

Quote:
I recognize how uncomfortable it can be to have someone challenge an unproven assertion, but that's kind of how we roll hereabouts.
(bolding mine)

I'm sure there's a good joke about cultural appropriation in here somewhere.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-19-2019 at 12:19 PM.
  #84  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:59 PM
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OK, but "concentration camps" is still Godwinizing, and I still snicker. If these are concentration camps, jails are concentration camps, POWs are held in concentration camps, putting them up in a motel would be a concentration camp, etc.

What effect will it have on the election? Very little - nobody is going to be convinced by calling Trump a Nazi, again.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:01 PM
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If these are concentration camps, jails are concentration camps, POWs are held in concentration camps, putting them up in a motel would be a concentration camp
Heh...

"one of these things is not like the other"
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:02 PM
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As things stand now, it will probably help him as much as it hurts.

We've taken the idea of a dualistic (dueling!) ideological framework (two party system, adversarial justice, good vs evil) just about as far as it can go. It makes for great drama, sure, and there are people who can get off on that, people who depend on it to profit in a superficial way, and people who can't tell when they are beating a dead horse.

Continuing to use "us vs them" rhetoric to fight problems which are themselves rooted in an "us vs them" mindset will just dig deeper trenches for the status quo.

It would probably, in fact, better for both the camps, and the Trump opposition, to divorce the issues.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:06 PM
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For the record, and for anyone talking about Godwin:

https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/statu...874877953?s=19

"Chris, I think they're concentration camps. Keep in mind that one of their functions *by design* is to punish those individuals and families who are detained. So even the "charged" term is appropriate."
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  #88  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:27 PM
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I don't know or care what a majority of my fellow citizens think. That practice has been the norm until the present Administration.

If the Trump Administration, as an alternative, wanted to create some safe, humane facilities to house refugees while their cases were being adjudicated, that would be fine with me. But that's not what's happening, is it?
This thread is about the electoral ramifications of the "concentration camps" so what the majority of your fellow citizens think is rather the point, not your personal preference.

Last edited by CarnalK; 06-19-2019 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:27 PM
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OK, but
[snip]
But nothing. Your assertion that the OP was inexpertly weighing in on this matter was well and truly scuttled. Move on.

And FTR, Derisive Snickers is an excellent addition to any trick-or-treat bag.

Hasty banana,
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:43 PM
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OK, but "concentration camps" is still Godwinizing, and I still snicker. If these are concentration camps, jails are concentration camps, POWs are held in concentration camps, putting them up in a motel would be a concentration camp, etc.

What effect will it have on the election? Very little - nobody is going to be convinced by calling Trump a Nazi, again.

Regards,
Shodan
Yeah, it would be like me starting a thread entitled "Why are Liberals Destroying America?" and getting pissed that people were claiming that they really weren't and demanding that because it is my thread that people stop debating whether liberals are destroying America and simply focus on why they are destroying America.

ETA: And yes, I don't care that what the British did in the Boer War were called concentration camps. That term from 1945 until the end of time will always mean "what Hitler did." The meaning has changed.

Last edited by UltraVires; 06-19-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:48 PM
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YETA: And yes, I don't care that what the British did in the Boer War were called concentration camps. That term from 1945 until the end of time will always mean "what Hitler did." The meaning has changed.
Those were extermination camps (the worst ones, anyway). Or death camps. There is a difference, even WRT "what Hitler did":

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During the 20th century, the arbitrary internment of civilians by the state reached its most extreme form with the establishment of the Nazi concentration camps (1933–45). The Nazi concentration camp system was extensive, with as many as 15,000 camps[11] and at least 715,000 simultaneous internees.[12] The total number of casualties in these camps is difficult to determine, but the deliberate policy of extermination through labor in many of the camps was designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time.[13] Moreover, Nazi Germany established six extermination camps, specifically designed to kill millions, primarily by gassing.

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Old 06-19-2019, 01:56 PM
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For the sake of hygiene, I hope they're installing showers at these facilities.
Barely.
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"(Customs and Border Protection) was struggling to maintain hygienic conditions in the holding cells. With limited access to showers and clean clothing, detainees were wearing soiled clothing for days or weeks," the report states.
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The Japanese internment camps were concentration camps but these really aren't even by the more expansive definitions in the first linked article.

One group isn't being separated out by the majority group. As bad as conditions may be, I find it pretty nauseating rhetoric to call them concentration camps.
OK, what's not as bad as death camps but worse than concentration camps? How about "human sardine camps"?
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:05 PM
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Wikipedia is obviously not the end-all be-all of facts, especially for current events, but it's notable that Wikipedia considers the US migrant camps to be concentration camps.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:07 PM
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When the alternative is death, as it is for many of these folks, then that wouldn't be much of a demotivator.
It occurs to me that they hang on in the hopes that the vast majority of Americans, being good and humane people, will not stand for this when they hear the truth. They just pray they can hang on until that happens.

God help them. Apparently, we can't.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:13 PM
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Wikipedia is obviously not the end-all be-all of facts, especially for current events, but it's notable that Wikipedia considers the US migrant camps to be concentration camps.
Our camps seem to be missing this part: "the deliberate policy of extermination through labor in many of the camps was designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time"

which is what most people think of when you say "concentration camps".
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:30 PM
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Our camps seem to be missing this part: "the deliberate policy of extermination through labor in many of the camps was designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time"

which is what most people think of when you say "concentration camps".
I don't know if that's what most people think of -- if so, hopefully most people can be educated as to the history of concentration camps. Maybe discussions like this could be part of it.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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Our camps seem to be missing this part: "the deliberate policy of extermination through labor in many of the camps was designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time"

which is what most people think of when you say "concentration camps".
I don't the British were trying* to kill Boers in their concentration camps, nor the Spanish trying to kill Cubans in their concentration camps, if for no other reason than it's hard to extract crops from land you intend to keep governing if you've killed off all the farmers & the townspeople that service them. The crappy conditions were the result of mismanagement and indifference, not intent. Unlike the concentration camps being discussed, as Trump has pretty much said he's trying to deter refugees.

*What the phrase "designed to ensure" tends to mean.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:59 PM
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I don't know if that's what most people think of -- if so, hopefully most people can be educated as to the history of concentration camps. Maybe discussions like this could be part of it.
Yes, that is what they think of. Since 1945, that has been the definition of "concentration camp". What types of camps that were called "concentration camps" before 1945 is irrelevant.

That is why when you tell people "They are concentration camps!" and those people don't see "the deliberate policy of extermination through labor...designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time", those people think you are vastly overstating the conditions at those places and will then subsequently discard much of what you say about them.

I personally think the conditions should be better, but I don't consider them "concentration camps" as used since 1945. But I'm smart and won't argue about terminology when the actual conditions at the places is what is important. But, a lot of people are dumb. At least 60,000,000 people in this country are dumb, and will stop listening when you say "concentration camp"
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:04 PM
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Yes, that is what they think of. Since 1945, that has been the definition of "concentration camp". What types of camps that were called "concentration camps" before 1945 is irrelevant.



That is why when you tell people "They are concentration camps!" and those people don't see "the deliberate policy of extermination through labor...designed to ensure that the inmates would die of starvation, untreated disease and summary executions within set periods of time", those people think you are vastly overstating the conditions at those places and will then subsequently discard much of what you say about them.



I personally think the conditions should be better, but I don't consider them "concentration camps" as used since 1945. But I'm smart and won't argue about terminology when the actual conditions at the places is what is important. But, a lot of people are dumb. At least 60,000,000 people in this country are dumb, and will stop listening when you say "concentration camp"
Even if you're right, that's fine if they're not listening for now. It took years for the right wing spin masters to successfully hang things like "big government" on the Democratic party. It might take years to permanently mark the GOP as the party of concentration camps and sexual assault. But it's got to start somewhere.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:24 PM
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The effect on his campaign will mostly be positive. Death camps would be even better for his numbers; legalizing the slaughter of foreigners by any white adult citizen would be best of all. The median US citizen is highly xenophobic, and the more brown folks his side can kill off, the further right that median is.

None of this justifies what CBP is doing. Morality is not merely a function of popularity. Anyone in public service needs to remember the difference.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 06-19-2019 at 03:24 PM.
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