Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:36 AM
Bone's Avatar
Bone is offline
Extrajudicial
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,861

Moderating


I merged two threads that had 12 and 36 posts, so there may be some odd threading. I kept the thread title that was started first.

[/moderating]
  #52  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:51 AM
Saint Cad is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Yeah, really. I think the public is capable of understanding that under such a scheme, taxes may go up while overall costs (such as premiums, co-pays yada yada) in aggregate go down.
You have been proven wrong already. 70% of Coloradans voted against a single-payer system because they didn't want to pay higher taxes although their overall cost would go down counting co-pays, deductibles, insurance premiums, etc. even accounting for the higher taxes.
__________________
When I was a boy, a mere lad, A FAERIE APPEARED UNTO ME AND TOLD ME I WOULD BE BOTH POPE AND KING! But … I am a bastard. And a pretender.

-Richard Hariss
  #53  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:41 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
And Bernie’s home state of Vermont passed single payer and then repealed it for the same reason. He was asked about this at one debate, I think, and had no coherent answer that I can recall. I believe his real answer, if you gave him truth serum, is that “I hate the big corporations and I just want to do this no matter how much it costs or how disruptive it is.”


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Biden's focus on the cost of MFA without noting the savings from the obsoletion of the bulk of the vastly-less-efficient private system continued this time. It's just not an honest representation.

Is it an “honest representation” to call a single payer healthcare bill with no resemblance to Medicare “Medicare for All”? Or to double down on that by saying you are going to phase it in over four years by lowering the eligibility age to 55, then 45, and so on – even though they are totally different programs and therefore this makes no sense?
  #54  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:45 AM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Maybe. There are multiple proposals that have been filled in under an attractive-sounding name.
  #55  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:48 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
Isn’t that what you call bait and switch? Or just plain false advertising?
  #56  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:50 AM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Is it an “honest representation” to call a single payer healthcare bill with no resemblance to Medicare “Medicare for All”? Or to double down on that by saying you are going to phase it in over four years by lowering the eligibility age to 55, then 45, and so on – even though they are totally different programs and therefore this makes no sense?
I believe the name gets the idea across. I do think annually lowering the age of eligibility is a great idea. It gives medical and insurance employees time to find another job, and government time to lower costs.
__________________
You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
  #57  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:55 AM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Isn’t that what you call bait and switch? Or just plain false advertising?
Product development and test marketing.
  #58  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:00 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post

Warren is a formidable opponent. I can see her shredding Trump in a debate forum, if he isn't too big a coward to show up for one. Bernie would also rip him apart. I don't see Biden doing well in that situation, however; hell, he didn't even do all that well against that nitwit Palin.
I doubt very highly that Donald Trump will ever agree to debate anyone ever again. There are not going to be any general election debates.
  #59  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:02 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
I doubt very highly that Donald Trump will ever agree to debate anyone ever again. There are not going to be any general election debates.
He didn't debate, he yelled at his opponent and interrupted her.
__________________
You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
  #60  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:06 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Anyone who is worried about who would do best in a debate with him is using the wrong analysis approach - remember how easily Hillary handled him? And how little it helped her on Election Day? The Deplorables simply saw her being put back in her place by a Manly Winning Man.
  #61  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:13 PM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 227
Trump will do one debate.

Even right-wing people will call it cowardly if he bails completely from a debate. But one debate accomplishes two things that matter for him.

1) Maximum Ratings
2) If he messes up...it's just one night and debates didn't matter in 2016 when Hillary universally was seen as the winner in three
  #62  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:24 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 26,782
Here's the deal. Biden has always spoken in rambling, meandering fashion. And a lot of people LIKE it. They think it means he's not giving them pre-packaged soundbite responses. There's been criticism right in this thread about Harris trying to give "clever" answers, with Yang's "who wants to be a $12,000aire" opening statement, and with Buttigieg unloading a sound bite that the Republicans and NRA will keep replaying after all of us were dead. All you can say about Biden is that he talks too much and can't explain himself in 15 words or less. And you call that "dementia?" How many of you here ever talk to your parents!

FWIW, throughout his rambling, garbled answer, I knew exactly what Biden was trying to say. And I don't give a shit that he said "record player" instead of "iPad" or some other damned contraption.

And here's the speech that Trump gave last night. Biden sounds like a genius compared with Trump.

Although I have to say, a debate between the two would probably be like watching two people yell at each other in Esperanto. We might get the gist of it, but would never be able to totally comprehend either of them.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 09-13-2019 at 12:27 PM.
  #63  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:36 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
Fair points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
I believe the name gets the idea across. I do think annually lowering the age of eligibility is a great idea. It gives medical and insurance employees time to find another job, and government time to lower costs.

But these are dramatically different programs. So in the first year, when he talks about lowering the age to 55, does that mean he is going to have one program for people 55 to 64 and traditional Medicare for those older than that? At the end of the four years does he eliminate traditional Medicare? It’s all just talking points with no more substance behind it than Trump’s promise to give people “something great”.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-13-2019 at 12:36 PM.
  #64  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:48 PM
Dung Beetle's Avatar
Dung Beetle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
Buttigieg unloading a sound bite that the Republicans and NRA will keep replaying after all of us were dead.
Beto, not Buttigieg.
  #65  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:59 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Their Buttigieg snickering will be completely predictable too.
  #66  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:01 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Biden looked high or something. Dang, I want Bernie just for the laughs. He looks like a mad scientist.
He reminds me of Howard Beale, in both a good way and a bad way - he can drop some uncomfortable truths that resonate with a lot of frustrated people, but he's also a shouty dishevelled old man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
Mayor Pete's very quick, and he hasn't flubbed once, as far as I can remember.
I'm intrigued by Buttigieg's intended strategy. My suspicions remain that his primary goal is to build his brand this time around without risking too much, but with an eye on any opportunity to fluke upwards should it arise, given the way he's playing it. His numbers are pretty steady in the 5-10% band, and while he may pick up a bit more support when the ones below him drop out he's unlikely to overtake Biden, Sanders and Warren unless they crash themselves out. Still, stranger things have happened. And if he doesn't get anywhere, he'll still be on the rise and I wouldn't be surprised to see him doing a DNC address along the way as well as other profile-rasing activities. If the Dems don't win in 2020, he'll be a strong contender for 2024.

In contrast, the other up-and-coming populist, O'Rourke, is almost certainly on a "White House or bust" track. Losing two high profile campaigns in a row will taint him; at best he'll run for governor when Texas goes a bit more purple. I can't see him coming back in 2024.
  #67  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:02 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Something ain't right about Biden.
Fortunately for him, he may not pay a price for that anytime soon, but that'll change once people start tuning in.
  #68  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:04 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
Yeah, I'm glad Julian got some boos and pushback from other candidates after that ageist attack on Biden. Screw him, the petty asshole.

I feel like Harris works a little too hard to come up with clever lines for these things, and then laughs a little too hard and feels a little too smug after delivering them.

I think Beto is a better candidate than he comes across in these debates. I kinda wish he was doing better in the polls.
...

Biden has some fire in his belly tonight, I'll give him that. Plus no blood in his eye so far. I don't think he's done himself any harm so far.

...
Yeah, Cheap shots wont work. Sure Harris scored in the 1st debate with one, but that was well planned.

I like Beto for Veep.
  #69  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:06 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
O'Rourke: "Hell yes we're going to take them," when asked if he supported confiscation of AR-15/AK-47 type rifles.
Yeah, banning the sale and importation is one thing, and altho it is pointless, i dont oppose it much. However- Door to door confiscation of guns is a very bad idea. Even talking about it will energize those 70 Million gun owners.
  #70  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:08 PM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
My 19yo ultralefty son inhabits some strange political universe I don’t comprehend. He texted me:

Quote:
Are you watching the debate? Castro is on FIRE!
More like "Castro lit himself on fire."

My guess is that he's (well) done, even grading on a "he's really running for VP/Cabinet" curve.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.

Last edited by Steve MB; 09-13-2019 at 01:10 PM.
  #71  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:23 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Yeah, banning the sale and importation is one thing, and altho it is pointless, i dont oppose it much. However- Door to door confiscation of guns is a very bad idea. Even talking about it will energize those 70 Million gun owners.
If nothing else, it will energize them to buy more guns. Does O'Rourke realize that what he just said will result in thousands of people going out and buying thousands of AR-15s and thousands of boxes of ammo? I wouldn't be surprised if there are people shopping at gun stores RIGHT NOW, today, as a direct result of what he said.

Clearly he is not savvy enough to consider the real-life consequences of foolish statements like that, which means he is not remotely savvy enough to be running for president.
  #72  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:32 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
If nothing else, it will energize them to buy more guns. Does O'Rourke realize that what he just said will result in thousands of people going out and buying thousands of AR-15s and thousands of boxes of ammo?
He's from Texas. He wouldn't be a functional adult if he doesn't realize there are people who will react that way. I lived in a quiet residential area in Houston and my neighbor across the street had 4 second amendment placards in his window. Including one that was something like "Warning: Owner is clinging to his guns and religion."
  #73  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:59 PM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 12,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
Although I have to say, a debate between the two would probably be like watching two people yell at each other in Esperanto. We might get the gist of it, but would never be able to totally comprehend either of them.
"Loser! Low energy! SAD!"
"Malarkey!"
"Fake news!"
"MALARKEY!"


ETA: There were also a couple of points where Cory Booker used the word "dagnabbed" or "dagnabbit" (IIRC) and I thought to myself "Oh, he's going for the Biden vote!"
__________________
"In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves." -- Carl Sagan

Ceterum censeo imperium Trumpi esse delendam

Last edited by MEBuckner; 09-13-2019 at 02:02 PM.
  #74  
Old 09-13-2019, 02:45 PM
Dallas Jones is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orygun forest
Posts: 4,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Yeah, banning the sale and importation is one thing, and altho it is pointless, i dont oppose it much. However- Door to door confiscation of guns is a very bad idea. Even talking about it will energize those 70 Million gun owners.
It is fine for Beto to come out strong with a gun confiscation position, because he really has no chance of attaining the nomination.

The problem is that when he says these things and goes unchallenged, it looks like an official part of the Democratic Party's platform, and that is a vote looser.
  #75  
Old 09-13-2019, 02:53 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,868
The other candidates actually missed a really good opportunity to connect with moderate gun owners by upbraiding Beto for such a remark, saying "we can't just confiscate peoples' legally owned property - that's not the country we live in. I am in favor of reasonable gun control but that is NOT reasonable." Or some variation thereof. The fact that it did go unchallenged, as pointed out above, is not a good look for these candidates.
  #76  
Old 09-13-2019, 02:57 PM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
The other candidates actually missed a really good opportunity to connect with moderate gun owners by upbraiding Beto for such a remark, saying "we can't just confiscate peoples' legally owned property - that's not the country we live in. I am in favor of reasonable gun control but that is NOT reasonable." Or some variation thereof. The fact that it did go unchallenged, as pointed out above, is not a good look for these candidates.
That response was personal to Beto. Several commended his conduct in the aftermath of the shooting in El Paso. They couldn't then scold him for something that hit home personally.
  #77  
Old 09-13-2019, 03:47 PM
Gray Ghost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
...I lived in a quiet residential area in Houston and my neighbor across the street had 4 second amendment placards in his window. Including one that was something like "Warning: Owner is clinging to his guns and religion."
Otherwise known as a, "Please burglarize this house first," sign.

I did not watch the debate, nor see the clip in question where O'Rourke made his pronouncement. AIUI though, the crowd wildly cheered, and none of the other debate participants disavowed his statement. Is that correct?

If so, then, while Robert O'Rourke is a silly man who says a variety of silly things, a much bigger story than his comment IMHO is that he is merely saying what the rest of the candidates wish to do.
  #78  
Old 09-13-2019, 04:38 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Yeah, Cheap shots wont work. Sure Harris scored in the 1st debate with one, but that was well planned.

I like Beto for Veep.

That would be cool, but seems unlikely unless someone who is not a white man is at the top of the ticket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
He reminds me of Howard Beale, in both a good way and a bad way - he can drop some uncomfortable truths that resonate with a lot of frustrated people, but he's also a shouty dishevelled old man.

I always think it’s interesting, how Bernie gets away with being so disheveled. I agree with feminists who point out that a woman would never even remotely be able to succeed in politics if she looked like a bag lady.

I told my son, who adores Bernie and sends him money all the time, that although I know it’s his brand to not care about such things, the lack of attention to grooming is accentuating his appearance of being really old. Some quiet work on hair and makeup might ameliorate that a bit.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-13-2019 at 04:39 PM.
  #79  
Old 09-13-2019, 05:10 PM
jaycat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
I doubt very highly that Donald Trump will ever agree to debate anyone ever again. There are not going to be any general election debates.
If that is so, the Democratic candidate needs to jump all over it, calling him out as a coward. And it wouldn't hurt to tie that in with his draft-dodging days.
  #80  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:06 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
The other candidates actually missed a really good opportunity to connect with moderate gun owners by upbraiding Beto for such a remark, saying "we can't just confiscate peoples' legally owned property - that's not the country we live in. I am in favor of reasonable gun control but that is NOT reasonable." Or some variation thereof. The fact that it did go unchallenged, as pointed out above, is not a good look for these candidates.
That would assure a vote along party lines. I believe it was a very bad idea.
  #81  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:10 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Jones View Post
It is fine for Beto to come out strong with a gun confiscation position, because he really has no chance of attaining the nomination.

The problem is that when he says these things and goes unchallenged, it looks like an official part of the Democratic Party's platform, and that is a vote looser.
Yes, sadly.


Like I said- sure ban the sale and import of 'assault weapons', but confiscation? Wow.
  #82  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:11 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
Otherwise known as a, "Please burglarize this house first," sign.
...
Burglars are well known for avoiding house where the owner is known to be armed.

Now, if they have solid info they are out of town, then.....
  #83  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:14 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
Otherwise known as a, "Please burglarize this house first," sign.
Oh, that would have been most unwise. His dogs weren't the timid type. Good guy though, as a neighbor. Ran a haunted house in his garage one year on Halloween.
  #84  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:21 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,435
Ha, just realized that might sound weird but he did and it was sweet. Lots of families brought their kids. He went all out.
  #85  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:41 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
It’s true that conservatives are freaking out over what Beto said about guns at the debates. I’m seeing it on the local news here. But I think this could actually be very good for his campaign. If the right and Fox News is constantly going apeshit over him, that might tend to make Democrats like him and support him more.
  #86  
Old 09-13-2019, 06:48 PM
ShadowFacts is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
It’s true that conservatives are freaking out over what Beto said about guns at the debates. I’m seeing it on the local news here. But I think this could actually be very good for his campaign. If the right and Fox News is constantly going apeshit over him, that might tend to make Democrats like him and support him more.
Worked for Trump.
  #87  
Old 09-13-2019, 07:20 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Burglars are well known for avoiding house where the owner is known to be armed.

Now, if they have solid info they are out of town, then.....
A guy in my neighborhood had his appliances, including the outside A/C compressor stolen when he was away.
  #88  
Old 09-13-2019, 07:38 PM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 22,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Burglars are well known for avoiding house where the owner is known to be armed.

Now, if they have solid info they are out of town, then.....
“Well known” generally translates to “here’s something I’m pulling out what came out from my colonoscopy prep”.

The argument can be made that guns are an item desirable to steal. More evidence to it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...-invasion/amp/
  #89  
Old 09-13-2019, 07:57 PM
E-DUB's Avatar
E-DUB is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,817
Hire burglars to do the actual confiscation as part of their "community service". Win/win.

But seriously doesn't "confiscation" mean to take without compensation? If so, the term wouldn't apply to buy backs.
  #90  
Old 09-13-2019, 08:15 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
“Well known” generally translates to “here’s something I’m pulling out what came out from my colonoscopy prep”.

The argument can be made that guns are an item desirable to steal. More evidence to it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...-invasion/amp/
Oh they are- if they know the owner isnt home.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-burgla...b-easier-safer
“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?
  #91  
Old 09-13-2019, 08:48 PM
E-DUB's Avatar
E-DUB is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
That would be cool, but seems unlikely unless someone who is not a white man is at the top of the ticket.
It is worth noting that the Dems haven't nominated a Male WASP for the top spot in twenty years.
  #92  
Old 09-13-2019, 08:53 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
It is worth noting that the Dems haven't nominated a Male WASP for the top spot in twenty years.
Al gore ran in 2000.
  #93  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:05 PM
Gray Ghost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Oh they are- if they know the owner isnt home.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-burgla...b-easier-safer
“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?
I need to track down cites, and I don't have the time, but I recall a survey of burglars/thieves/robbers done a short time ago, that tried to determine what made a location an attractive location to practice their trade. Dogs were a deterrent, though not a great one. If the thief wanted the items bad enough, he'd (vast majority were male) either ignore the dog---as most would just bark and not attack---or kill it. Not hard to do for most household dogs. Maybe you have a Fila, or a Schutzhund trained K9.

Anyway, another thing that made the location attractive was easily fenceable items. Drugs were valuable, but guns were 2nd most prized, even over jewels or electronics.

Finally, most successful thieves timed their approach to when the occupants were away. Thefts were rare where the thief was indifferent to the presence of a homeowner.

Anyway, I think we'll differ on whether such a homeowner's sign is a deterrent or attraction, though I welcome reading research that can help settle the question one way or the other.

Confiscation means to take from someone who did not want to relinquish said property. It can be either compensated, as is the case for eminent domain condemnation, or uncompensated, as is the case of contraband, but both are confiscations. Were owners of narcotics compensated for their seizure when the first controlled substances acts were passed?

A mandatory buy-back is a confiscation, period.
  #94  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:06 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 28,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
It is worth noting that the Dems haven't nominated a Male WASP for the top spot in twenty years.
Why is that worth noting?
  #95  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:44 PM
Babale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,867
I strongly disagree with you guys. Most Americans favor stricter gun control. We need to nominate a candidate who'll actually tackle this issue. Beto's response earned him a lot of respect in my book.
  #96  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:50 PM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 22,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Oh they are- if they know the owner isnt home.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-burgla...b-easier-safer
“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?
I’ll match your quote anecdote with this one https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktv.../277-344333696
Quote:
“NRA sticker on car bumper = Lots of guns to steal,” wrote one burglar.
__________________
Oy.
  #97  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:04 PM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 22,654
FWIW the 9/6 NPR On The Media last bit with Lois Beckett https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538775/on-the-media was great.

Actual evidence based gun violence prevention would not focus on assault weapons or school shootings. Kids are in fact safer in schools than in their homes.

It’s a good discussion.
  #98  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:10 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
It is worth noting that the Dems haven't nominated a Male WASP for the top spot in twenty years.
I'll guess 'twenty' was a typo for 'sixteen.' Since the R's almost won with a Mormon in 2012, and one front-runner today is nominally a Jew, I don't think 'Catholic' raises eyebrows anymore.

(John Kerry's grandfather Frederick Kerry was born Fritz Kohn, a Jew, and married a woman from Budapest: is that why he's not "AS" (Anglo-Saxon)?)
  #99  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:13 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 26,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
It is worth noting that the Dems haven't nominated a Male WASP for the top spot in twenty years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
Al gore ran in 2000.
And John Kerry in 2004. Unless you strictly define WASP as "Protestant." In which case you have to also agree that Episcopalians aren't WASPs, either.
  #100  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:21 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
Al gore ran in 2000.

Yes, exactly 20 years before this election. And no, Catholics are not WASPs. And yes, Episcopalians are.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017