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  #151  
Old 09-19-2019, 03:36 PM
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Colt will stop making AR-15s for civilian sale, says there's already plenty on market.

Imagine. The market is saturated, so they're just going to stop selling them. Huh. But only to the consumer market. Double-huh.

GM: "Yeah, there's a lot of cars on the road and traffic was a pain. So we're going to stop selling cars to consumers. The market is obviously saturated."
Microsoft: "Yeah, man, we've sold millions of pieces of software. There's plenty on the market, so we're not selling software anymore. At least not to consumers."
McDonalds: "Fuck this shit. 100 billion served? Just to consumers? Market saturation! Let's close down the consumer division, only sell to businesses and governments!"
Nike: "Shoes don't wear down. They don't fall apart. Not for consumers, they don't. Therefore, the market is saturated and we're only selling our shoes in bulk."
Walgreens: "Remember all that oxycotin we sold? Well, we've sold enough. Product withdrawn."
  #152  
Old 09-19-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Cool. Maybe we bring back the old-fashioned six-shooter, which would suffice quite well for self-defense, and ban everything else besides single-shot hunting rifles.
I, for one, am OK with this proposal.
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  #153  
Old 09-19-2019, 03:56 PM
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Colt will stop making AR-15s for civilian sale, says there's already plenty on market.

Imagine. The market is saturated, so they're just going to stop selling them. Huh. But only to the consumer market. Double-huh.

GM: "Yeah, there's a lot of cars on the road and traffic was a pain. So we're going to stop selling cars to consumers. The market is obviously saturated."
Microsoft: "Yeah, man, we've sold millions of pieces of software. There's plenty on the market, so we're not selling software anymore. At least not to consumers."
McDonalds: "Fuck this shit. 100 billion served? Just to consumers? Market saturation! Let's close down the consumer division, only sell to businesses and governments!"
Nike: "Shoes don't wear down. They don't fall apart. Not for consumers, they don't. Therefore, the market is saturated and we're only selling our shoes in bulk."
Walgreens: "Remember all that oxycotin we sold? Well, we've sold enough. Product withdrawn."
If you actually understood the gun market, you'd know that the patents on the AR-15 expired long ago, and there are as many as 500 manufacturers making ARs and parts now. Colt was only one of them. That's what they mean by the market being saturated. Also, since the patents expired many people buy AR parts piecemeal and build their own.

If you want an analogy to medicine, it would be more like a manufacturer of a patented drug getting out of the market after their patent expires and all the generics come in and saturate it at lower prices.

A big manufacturer like Colt probably doesn't think there's a big enough market for the Colt version of an AR-15, when dozens of other, smaller manufacturers are offering variants on the same thing. Especially when it comes with potential PR and future legal problems. It does NOT mean that people won't be able to buy a new AR-15.
  #154  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:05 PM
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CA has banned assault weapons since 1989 has no OC and almost no CCW, background checks for all gun sales. So there, it has been tried for a generation or two- and it made not a dent in the murder rate. CA is still where it was- right in the middle of all states.
:
Oh thank God! For a minute, I thought for a minute that enough people weren't dying in California in order to bolster your argument to fetishize guns! Whew! Dodged a bullet there, didn't we?
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  #155  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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Colt will stop making AR-15s for civilian sale, says there's already plenty on market.

Imagine. The market is saturated, so they're just going to stop selling them. Huh. But only to the consumer market. Double-huh.

....
This is like Bayer not selling aspirin any more as too many generic brands.

None of your analogies , clever as you think they are, hold water.
  #156  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:12 PM
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A six shooter can kill six people in a hurry. A double rig can kill twelve. Add in some speedloaders, and in about 3 seconds you can kill 6 more. Continue until your ammo runs out.
Then we require that they be configured so you have to reload them by hand, one bullet at a time.

Yes, it could still kill six people in a hurry. But not sixty.
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An AR-15 cannot kill people any faster than a standard semi-automatic hunting rifle.
That's nice, but I was referring to a hunting rifle with a capacity of one bullet.
  #157  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:12 PM
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LOL, that's so wrong, Sam. Their argument tries to have it both ways: "We're no longer making them because they don't sell, but holy shit, look at the numbers we're moving on the government and large-order market!"

That's not the actions of a manufacturer who truly believes the market is "oversaturated", because Colt itself admits it isn't. That's the actions of a marketer who is getting out of a segment of the market for other reasons. The statement would have been more honest had it said what you said: "The legal and financial exposure to manufacturing these things has exceeded our profit and revenue expectations to a point where it's better to withdraw from this market."

And guys, the fuckin' patent expired in 1977, so please, stop that defense. It makes zero sense in their <checks calendar> September, 2019 decision.

Colt still holds the trademark on "AR-15", so I guess they got that going for them.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-19-2019 at 04:15 PM.
  #158  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:17 PM
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Nothing I've said indicates I'd be satisfied with your proposal. I'm just trying to correct your ignorance.
Your objections seemed to be based on your need for protection against home intruders. I have no problem with your having a gun that can fire a few shots quickly against the bogeyman coming up the stairs or down the hall towards your bedroom.

If you have less legitimate needs for owning firearms (including whatever emotional attachments you may have to high-powered artillery), I cannot support those. I regard the lives of my fellow citizens as being more important than whatever those needs might be.
  #159  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:24 PM
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A six shooter can kill six people in a hurry.
One thing about handguns is that bullets fired from one just don't have the velocity of bullets fired from a high-powered semi-auto rifle. And when someone is injured rather than killed by such a bullet, that makes a huge difference in their ability to recover. An AR-15 bullet passing through you will take big chunks out of your innards, while your body is able to close in around the slower handgun bullet; your internal wound won't be much bigger than the track of the bullet itself. People injured by an AR-15 are likely crippled for life.
  #160  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:30 PM
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Of course, we all know that once the AR's are gone, you'll just move on to the next weapon on your list of things to ban. Nobody believes that anti-gunners just want 'common sense' regulation. You hate guns, and you want them all gone. Beto just made that clear, when the left cheered his gun confiscation plan and none of the other major candidates for president pushed back against him.
Nah, we hate people getting slaughtered on a regular basis. We hate our kids having "active shooter" drills in school. We want to be as safe from guns as people in all the other developed nations are. We don't think people should be able to walk the streets with the capacity to slaughter dozens of people anytime the idea gets into their heads.

That shouldn't be incredibly difficult to understand.
  #161  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:36 PM
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People who understand guns know these things, and that's why they get frustrated by people who want to take them away while exhibiting complete ignorance about them.
Then the people who understand guns and know these things should be thinking about where the 'sweet spot' is which keeps their fellow citizens a lot safer than they are now, while still allowing them as much freedom as possible to carry guns.

But AFAICT, the "people who understand guns" haven't put one lick of work into trying to find some solution to our monthly massacres. (Dayton took care of the "good guy with a gun" idea, which we knew was bullshit anyway.)

And in the absence of pro-gun people working towards a solution, it's clear that the right to possess guns is something they value well beyond the value they assign to the lives of their fellow citizens.

As such, they are objectively pro-massacre.
  #162  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:39 PM
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... they are objectively pro-massacre.
Gee, I just can't figure out why we haven't expended time and energy helping you guys write competent legislation to restrict our rights. It couldn't have anything to do with hateful attitudes like this ... could it?
  #163  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:41 PM
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... We don't think people should be able to walk the streets with the capacity to slaughter dozens of people anytime the idea gets into their heads.

That shouldn't be incredibly difficult to understand.
People drive around with that same capacity all the time.
  #164  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:44 PM
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People drive around with that same capacity all the time.
Except, duh, cars are far more useful in many ways other than to kill. Killing is an unfortunate side effect that is constantly being studied and lessened. Unlike a certain tool that is designed from the beginning to kill...
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  #165  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:06 PM
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Lol, Colt removing these things from the civilian market but keeping it open for the military market sure beats the shit out of future "AR-15's are not military/are for civilians" arguments, so at least the Left now has that one put in the W column.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-19-2019 at 05:07 PM.
  #166  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:21 PM
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Now up to 7,700 downvotes...

How low can he go? How low can he go?
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  #167  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:29 PM
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Except, duh, cars are far more useful in many ways other than to kill. Killing is an unfortunate side effect that is constantly being studied and lessened. Unlike a certain tool that is designed from the beginning to kill...
And that’s an important point. The NRA has lobbied to prevent even public health research into seeing how guns could be made safer and less prone to accidental deaths. Cars have been studied extensively, including messaging around drunken and distracted driving, and have become much safer over the years. Car manufacturers were incentivized to study safety and improve on it.

That research into gun deaths and how to minimize them is blocked, primarily by NRA lobbying, shows the moral bankruptcy of these industry leaders, and that they shouldn’t be trusted in deciding what’s fair and what’s not.
  #168  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:35 PM
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https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1008889.pdf

A 2015 business case analysis of the AR15 market. Just found this and am on my phone, but:

1. Data goes to 2013
2. 90% of all AR15s are sold to the "civilian and police" (C&P) segment.
3. 4.7 million AR15s were sold in that time (4.23 million to the C&P segment.
4. Colt was the #3 seller w/ 388k units sold. (Smith & Wesson #1 with 1m sold.).
5. Page 18 makes the claim that in 2012 974k AR15s were sold.
6. Using analysis which may be flawed, the authors then deduce that of that 974k, approximately 499,000 (51%) went directly to civilians.
7. Page 52 states that Colt has 13% of the market and sold 147k AR15s
8. If Colt has the same ratio as the industry, that means 79k AR15s were sold by Colt to the civilian market, for (using the analysis's numbers) $79m in civilian AR15 revenue, and $7 million in profits.

Guys, I'm not going to review 10k's while using a phone, but I don't think the numbers are speaking to many of the arguments being made here.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-19-2019 at 05:35 PM.
  #169  
Old 09-19-2019, 06:27 PM
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Of all guns are equal then banning the AR-15 would make gun grabbers happy and have no effect on gun owners.

Unless, of course, all guns are NOT equal.

Boom.


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Remember when only Nixon could go to China?

Perhaps only a Texan can take your guns.

I like it!
  #170  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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They have banned "zombie knives" in the UK. So the slope is slippery.

Not really, it's based on them looking scary and being used in mass shootings, but mass shooting are a tiny % of murders in the USA. There are about 17,000 murders in the USA, 11000 with guns, 1600 with knives, etc. Of those 7000 are with handguns, and rifles (which include the AR15) account for a mere 400. Thus knives are four times more deadly than rifles, in terms of murders.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-weapon-used/
They have banned switchblades, skateboards, firecrackers, nunchuks, and many other things over the last century or so. Communities that want to ban knives have about zero to do with the lethality of some guns vs others. But you are right we have always been on the slope. It's not new and not alarming to good citizens.

So just to be straight I am OK with communities banning a scary knife if they want to.

Again you are just ignoring the proportionality but I guess that was your point?
  #171  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:19 PM
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Just think of responsible gun control as a wall that we need to build. Big beautiful new laws that will make bad foreign (but also domestic) dark colored (But also vanity, pastel, and girl models) weapons much scarcer in the future.
  #172  
Old 09-19-2019, 07:43 PM
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I think in the hands of someone relatively untrained, the most deadly weapon in that circumstance would be a pump shotgun like a Remington 870 with a short barrel. Then when it's empty (9 rounds), a couple of pistols would let me shoot at least 16 more bullets, and up to 66 more, without reloading.

A rifle is rather hard to use in confined spaces - especially if you are untrained.

You simply can't legislate safety by banning certain model of gun. There are way too many options.
You didn't answer the question. I asked about you.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:13 PM
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You didn't answer the question. I asked about you.
Because I didn't take your bait about killing kids, or allow you to frame the question in a way that removes the obvious way to increase firepower - bringing two pistols?.

But if you want my honest answer as to which single gun would be able to rack up the biggest body count, I'd still have to say 'that depends'. There's no doubt that an AR-15 is a lethal gun in the right hands. If it were a Navy SEAL doing the shooting, I'd say whatever assault weapon they have trained on. For the average, untrained user I'd probably say a magazine-fed sawed off shotgun or a handgun

But the difference between all these guns, including various handguns, is going to be far smaller than the difference in ability of the shooter. A trained shooter with a Glock 19 is more dangerous than a kid who just got his hands on an AR-15.

And there is no difference in lethality at all between an AR-15 and a sporting rifle like the Mini-14. Both of them shoot the same ammo, have similar firing rates and ease of changing magazines.

And neither of them pack as much of a wallop as a 12 gauge shotgun or a high powered hunting rifle. Because the .223 Remington, which the AR-15 shoots, is a rather underpowered rifle cartridge.

As a comparison, a .223 has a muzzle energy of 1252 ft.lbs. A 30-30 Winchester round (used in those old west lever guns among many others) has 1903 ft.lbs of energy. But a .308, which is the most common rifle round for hunting, has 2820 ft.lbs of energy - more than twice that of the AR-15.

So a semi-auto .308 like a Springfield M1A is twice as lethal as an AR-15. It also has an interchangeable box magazine, so it can fire just as many bullets in the same amount of time.

So to answer your question, I'd take a semi-auto large caliber rifle if I was trained to use it properly. If not, probably a handgun like an M1911 or a Glock.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 09-19-2019 at 08:15 PM.
  #174  
Old 09-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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Thank you for answering. I think magazine capacity has some bearing on what gun people would choose to take on a rampage. Fewer magazine changes means less down time.
  #175  
Old 09-19-2019, 08:44 PM
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Thank you for answering. I think magazine capacity has some bearing on what gun people would choose to take on a rampage. Fewer magazine changes means less down time.
Do gun people go on a rampage, or crazy people?
  #176  
Old 09-19-2019, 08:51 PM
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Do gun people go on a rampage, or crazy people?
Those terms aren't mutually exclusive.
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  #177  
Old 09-19-2019, 08:55 PM
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Those terms aren't mutually exclusive.
Yes, as engineers and crazy people, bus drivers and crazy people are not mutually exclusive.
  #178  
Old 09-19-2019, 09:10 PM
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Thank you for answering. I think magazine capacity has some bearing on what gun people would choose to take on a rampage. Fewer magazine changes means less down time.
It may have "some bearing" but it's certainly not the determining factor. The Virginia Tech shooter used a Walther P22 as one of his guns and a bunch of 10-round magazines.
  #179  
Old 09-19-2019, 09:47 PM
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Thank you for answering. I think magazine capacity has some bearing on what gun people would choose to take on a rampage. Fewer magazine changes means less down time.
you may find this video interesting (sherrif tests difference in mag capacity)
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  #180  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:09 PM
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Now show the video they made with people who do not shoot competitively or have advance tactical trading. You know, like most mass shooters.
  #181  
Old 09-19-2019, 10:18 PM
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I watched 1 minute 23 seconds of that video. It basically says having bigger magazines is favorable for police officers and self-defenders. Did I miss anything?

Last edited by Isamu; 09-19-2019 at 10:18 PM.
  #182  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:12 PM
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Except, duh, cars are far more useful in many ways other than to kill. Killing is an unfortunate side effect that is constantly being studied and lessened. Unlike a certain tool that is designed from the beginning to kill...
If guns are designed to kill people, they do a very poor job of it, since with 400 Million guns they murder maybe 10000 people, that's 1 in 40000. Pretty bad design there.

But they are not, really.
  #183  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:29 PM
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If guns are designed to kill people, they do a very poor job of it, since with 400 Million guns they murder maybe 10000 people, that's 1 in 40000. Pretty bad design there.

But they are not, really.
Tell that to all the militaries of the world. I'm sure that they'd be pleased to know that they've been wasting their time and money on guns.

If it makes you feel better, how about I rephrase it as "designed to kill and project the the threat of killing"
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  #184  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:32 PM
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Tell that to all the militaries of the world. I'm sure that they'd be pleased to know that they've been wasting their time and money on guns.

If it makes you feel better, how about I rephrase it as "designed to kill and project the the threat of killing"
Nope, not that either. Unless you could hunting as "killing", which of course it is, but not in the context here. Target and skeet shooters kill nothing, Olympic athlete shooters kill nothing, gun collectors kill nothing, cow-boy action shooters kill nothing, etc.

And people who buy a gun for home defense hope desperately they will never have to kill anyone.
  #185  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:42 PM
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That's exactly what they do. The AR-15 is used not because it's the deadliest, but because it looks bad-ass. There are also a whole lot of them out there, so they are relatively easy to find/steal.

But if the AR is banned, there are lots of other guns that look 'badass'. And all it will take is some action movie where the hero uses twin shotguns or something, and we'll start seeing shotgun killings. If that happens, are we going to ban shotguns?

London banned all the guns. Then knives became the cool thing to have. Now people are being murdered with knives, and the government wants to ban scary looking knives and make it illegal to carry a knife on your person.

You let them take away all the knives, and next they'll come for your screwdrivers. Because it's easier than admitting that you have large scale social problems of your own making,
Maybe we could paint them pink or something so they won't look so bad-ass! Or maybe rainbow colored. Bet that would help.
  #186  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:45 PM
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Nope, not that either. Unless you could hunting as "killing", which of course it is, but not in the context here. Target and skeet shooters kill nothing, Olympic athlete shooters kill nothing, gun collectors kill nothing, cow-boy action shooters kill nothing, etc.

And people who buy a gun for home defense hope desperately they will never have to kill anyone.
It's all simulated killing, dude. You can't have live targets because its illegal, obviously. For competion, you need to level the playing field and not have it come down to chance how critters are going to act. Skeet is simulating birds. Olympic biathlon is simulated hunting. Target shooters are generally aiming at human silhouettes, for fucks sake. Granted, I've only been to a dozen or so ranges, but every single time the default target is a human silhouette.

Gun collectors, fine. They should be ok with them being non working then, right?

I don't know what you mean by "cowboy action shooter". Please explain.

Edit: does it make you feel better if I say "destroy" instead of "kill"
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Last edited by snfaulkner; 09-19-2019 at 11:50 PM.
  #187  
Old 09-20-2019, 01:43 AM
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... I don't know what you mean by "cowboy action shooter". Please explain. ...
It's a particular type of shooting event / competition. The participants typically dress like cowboys and use cowboy-ish guns: revolvers, lever-action rifles, etc.

Watch some of this to get the idea.

ETA: the rest of you should probably watch it too, to gain a modicum of understanding of just how quickly someone with a bit of training / practice can fire lever- or pump-action long guns.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-20-2019 at 01:45 AM.
  #188  
Old 09-20-2019, 07:12 AM
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Beto


Sam, How about a one for one trade in program for musket loaders? Better yet we issue a musket to to every man woman and child in the country paid for by the scrap metal from all the melted down bullets (have you see the price of lead and brass lately?)
As a Progressive socialist gun owner. I too question the efficacy of melting down weapons when there are millions and millions of them out there I can't imagine getting them all. I would happily give up my guns if it would help. It seems to me that the prudent course is not try to reinvent the wheel . Canada's number one sport is hunting yet they have a tiny fraction of the gun violence we do. Why not look at the vast majority of free societies and use their best practices. This problem has be largely solved elsewhere and our do-nothing attitude has ended up with mass shootings. Australia maybe is a good working model for us to start with?
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Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
A six shooter can kill six people in a hurry. A double rig can kill twelve. Add in some speedloaders, and in about 3 seconds you can kill 6 more. Continue until your ammo runs out.

An AR-15 cannot kill people any faster than a standard semi-automatic hunting rifle. A Ruger Mini-14 fires the same cartridge, and fires it just as fast. A standard M1911, probably the second most common American-owned handgun, can shoot 8 bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger. A Glock 19, the most popular handgun, can shoot as many as 6 to 33 bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger, depending on the magazine you have in it.

Even the old western lever action rifle like the Winchester model 1873 has a 15 round magazine, and a skilled shooter can shoot the thing just about as fast as an AR-15.

There is nothing special about an AR-15 when it comes to deadliness. The characteristics that make it unique are lightweight design, ease of repair, modular construction, and military features like a pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet lug, collapsing stock and other things that have nothing to do with lethality in a private setting.

People who understand guns know these things, and that's why they get frustrated by people who want to take them away while exhibiting complete ignorance about them.

Also, the AR-15 and other assault rifles are not the problem with respect to gun violence. The vast majority of murders are committed with handguns, because handguns are concealable. It's hard to walk up to a rival gang member with an AR-15 slung over your shoulder. It tends to be noticed.

Anyone who understands the issues knows that banning AR-15's wouldn't make a dent in firearms fatalities. At best, you might cause some spree shooter to change his weapon of choice to any number of other firearms equally deadly, or even more deadly. In the meantime, you'd be stripping the constitutional rights from millions of people just so some people can feel good that they 'did something', without actually doing anything at all.

Of course, we all know that once the AR's are gone, you'll just move on to the next weapon on your list of things to ban. Nobody believes that anti-gunners just want 'common sense' regulation. You hate guns, and you want them all gone. Beto just made that clear, when the left cheered his gun confiscation plan and none of the other major candidates for president pushed back against him.
  #189  
Old 09-20-2019, 08:36 AM
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Sam, How about a one for one trade in program for musket loaders? Better yet we issue a musket to to every man woman and child in the country paid for by the scrap metal from all the melted down bullets (have you see the price of lead and brass lately?)
As a Progressive socialist gun owner. I too question the efficacy of melting down weapons when there are millions and millions of them out there I can't imagine getting them all. I would happily give up my guns if it would help. It seems to me that the prudent course is not try to reinvent the wheel . Canada's number one sport is hunting yet they have a tiny fraction of the gun violence we do. Why not look at the vast majority of free societies and use their best practices. This problem has be largely solved elsewhere and our do-nothing attitude has ended up with mass shootings. Australia maybe is a good working model for us to start with?
Gun rights advocates don't care about other countries and their approach to gun rights. American gun rights advocates believe that owning guns is a "natural right" that cannot be denied to them by the government, based on the constitution and various court case rulings.

Also, Canada's number one sport is hockey. Hunting is not a "sport". Nothing that involves being still and waiting while being vewy vewy quiet is a sport.
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  #190  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:23 AM
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I watched 1 minute 23 seconds of that video. It basically says having bigger magazines is favorable for police officers and self-defenders. Did I miss anything?
I think the main points were that smaller capacity magazines don't slow a shooter down very much, and some twenty feet cannot be covered during magazine reload.
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  #191  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:16 AM
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Gee, I just can't figure out why we haven't expended time and energy helping you guys write competent legislation to restrict our rights. It couldn't have anything to do with hateful attitudes like this ... could it?
Well, as long as you feel your 'rights' are more important than people routinely getting gunned down on our streets and in our schools, then fuck yeah, you have it coming to you.
  #192  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:23 AM
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People drive around with that same capacity all the time.
Unfortunately, we've created a society that's extremely car-dependent. That's not true of guns.

FWIW, when we lefties advocate for better public transportation and fewer restrictions on dense building around subway stops and the like, so that more people can do without cars, 'conservatives' oppose us at every turn.

Remember back when Obama's stimulus passed, and it had funds for high-speed rail? Republican governors all over the place simply refused to take the money. Comparatively sane conservatives like George Will said public transportation was socialism. Chris Christie vetoed a new (and now, desperately needed) train tunnel under the Hudson to NYC.

You have no right to talk about cars in this context.
  #193  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:57 AM
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Unfortunately, we've created a society that's extremely car-dependent. That's not true of guns.

FWIW, when we lefties advocate for better public transportation and fewer restrictions on dense building around subway stops and the like, so that more people can do without cars, 'conservatives' oppose us at every turn.

Remember back when Obama's stimulus passed, and it had funds for high-speed rail? Republican governors all over the place simply refused to take the money. Comparatively sane conservatives like George Will said public transportation was socialism. Chris Christie vetoed a new (and now, desperately needed) train tunnel under the Hudson to NYC.

You have no right to talk about cars in this context.
I hate using public transportation. In NY however, it is probably less hassle to use it.
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  #194  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:14 AM
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Except, duh, cars are far more useful in many ways other than to kill. Killing is an unfortunate side effect that is constantly being studied and lessened. Unlike a certain tool that is designed from the beginning to kill...
If you have ever gone target shooting you will probably appreciate firearms as more than just killing machines.
  #195  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:19 AM
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I think the main points were that smaller capacity magazines don't slow a shooter down very much, and some twenty feet cannot be covered during magazine reload.
Exactly, in the linked video you have two shooters doing various demonstrations, one experienced shooter, and one novice, times are compared...

They demonstrate with a Glock 19 semiauto pistol, an AR-15 rifle, revolvers, and a 1911 semiauto pistol** with differing Mag capacities to show how little variation Mag capacity makes

** the 7 round capacity 1911, with Mag changes, was able to put 21 rounds on target in around 9.6 seconds, the fastest of the bunch, even faster than the “evil” AR...

A “New York Reload” of a series of six shot revolvers was next fastest...

Mag capacity is largely irrelavent
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  #196  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:21 AM
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Well, as long as you feel your 'rights' are more important than people routinely getting gunned down on our streets and in our schools, then fuck yeah, you have it coming to you.
It's all well and good to feel righteous in your use of petty insults against political opponents. That's fine. Whatever. My point was that it's moronic to then expect cooperation from the people you're insulting.
  #197  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:22 AM
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Oh, forgot to add, the 1911 pistol design is over ONE HUNDRED years old, and is a semiautomatic...
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  #198  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:24 AM
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... Remember back when Obama's stimulus passed, and it had funds for high-speed rail? ...
Yes, I remember. That absolute shit-show of a failure had nothing to do with Republicans and everything to do with classic California liberal incompetence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
... You have no right to talk about cars in this context.
You can probably imagine how little value I place on what you think I have a "right to talk about" or not.
  #199  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:40 AM
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It's all well and good to feel righteous in your use of petty insults against political opponents. That's fine. Whatever. My point was that it's moronic to then expect cooperation from the people you're insulting.
Exactly.
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  #200  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:51 AM
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London banned all the guns. Then knives became the cool thing to have. Now people are being murdered with knives, and the government wants to ban scary looking knives and make it illegal to carry a knife on your person.

You let them take away all the knives, and next they'll come for your screwdrivers. Because it's easier than admitting that you have large scale social problems of your own making,
Firstly, "London" didn't ban guns, Great Britain did (possibly the whole UK - I can't remember what the situation in NI is off the top of my head).

Secondly, "scary-looking knives" have been illegal to carry around for decades now in the UK. Funnily enough, once guns stopped being a material threat, police were then able to focus on knife crime, and that fell rapidly too. With guns and knives heavily restricted, homicide rates fell because fights were far less likely to become lethal (this led to a bulge in the assault rate because that's where non-lethal fights were recorded). What didn't happen was a sudden surge of screwdriver-related assaults, because that's just a paranoid fantasy.

Admittedly knife crime is currently on the rise again, but this has absolutely nothing to do with guns being banned and everything to do with right-wingers cutting police numbers by 20,000. The fact that the "gun rights" contingent in the US - including Donald "stab stab" Trump - are blatantly misrepresenting this situation tells you everything you need to know: that they're terrified that people might see that banning guns actually works.

The gun problem in the US is certainly driven by "large scale social problems of our own making", but prime among them is the fetishization of guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Gee, I just can't figure out why we haven't expended time and energy helping you guys write competent legislation to restrict our rights. It couldn't have anything to do with hateful attitudes like this ... could it?
When your response to repeated mass shootings is to continue chanting "thoughts and prayers!" and then keep working to loosen restrictions on gun ownership including to mentally ill people, it's less a "hateful attitude" or "petty insults" and more an accurate description of reality. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but thank you for confirming that your fragile feelings are more important than trying to prevent the murder of schoolchildren.
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