Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:40 AM
AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
Says who? Who is the arbiter of such things? Everything I'm seeing is about how damning this is. Sure there are those that are claiming what you say, but claims do not equal reality.
It is indeed damning. Damning thing Number 117 of the Trump era. Its going to be different from the previous 116...how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Crow?

Just kidding.

Anyway, did I read the transcript right? In it, I seemed to read Trump asking the Ukraine to investigate his own former Ambassador, Marie Louise Yovanovitch. Perhaps I got that wrong.
I must have missed the bit in the transcript where 67 Senators, or 20 in other words GOP types decide to vote to convict.
  #202  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:41 AM
FlikTheBlue is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Well, sure. Hence the half-facetious description of my remark. The point is simply that there could be many reasons why someone doesn't want an impeachment process to begin, and that you can't draw conclusions that the person being impeached will necessarily be helped by it. Since no reason for why someone is against it is never offered.
I think the bulk of those who might (have) oppose(d) impeachment, including people like myself, are people who are opposed to Trump but were fearful impeachment would backfire. Many of us in that group, including me, have changed our minds.
  #203  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:41 AM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
In which case we have Buttigieg and Harris as the mainstream alternates to Biden. I think either one of them would do better in a general election against Trump than Biden would, and not just because of Ukraine.
If only they were doing well in the Democratic primary. But they're not.
  #204  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:41 AM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 42,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Let me get this straight...a right-wing poster is employing the "I felt threatened tactic"?
He came riding in on his horse called Trigger.

It's amusing that in every post of his where he lambastes everyone for speculation and supposition, he follows those comments with. . .wait for it. . .speculation and supposition. Just keep fucking that dog, pal.
  #205  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:42 AM
Saint Cad is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Let me get this straight...a right-wing poster is employing the "I felt threatened tactic"?
What? Right-wingers are not entitled to safe spaces?
__________________
When I was a boy, a mere lad, A FAERIE APPEARED UNTO ME AND TOLD ME I WOULD BE BOTH POPE AND KING! But … I am a bastard. And a pretender.

-Richard Hariss
  #206  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:44 AM
wguy123 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,116
This is the leading headline on foxnews:

"Ukraine call shows Trump pressed for Biden probe, asked about DNC server but no talk of military aid"

Big fat nothingberder.
  #207  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:45 AM
KidCharlemagne is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
This is the leading headline on foxnews:

"Ukraine call shows Trump pressed for Biden probe, asked about DNC server but no talk of military aid"

Big fat nothingberder.
You should see Breitbart.
  #208  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:46 AM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
I don't disagree with this. But (excluding independents, because I don't know exactly what that means) they would also vote for him over a perfectly reasonable Democrat.
By "soft independents," I mean those that tacked to Obama in 2008/2012 and then to Trump in 2016.

I disagree that the American oligarchs would prefer Trump to Biden. What they want more than anything is stability in the American markets so they can continue to reliably make money. If Republicans offered even Pence or (holy grail) Romney, you're right -- they would stick with the Republicans. But Trump's nuttiness and willingness to violate traditional norms scares them. If they have a choice between Biden and Trump, I think most of them will throw their money behind Biden. But not Warren.

Trump Republicans are a lost cause. Fortunately, they are a minority.
  #209  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:46 AM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Maybe but
1) Sexual relations with an intern is not. Most CEOs would be fired for the same behavior.
2) The articles of impeachment was not about sex, but rather perjury to a grand jury. The same thing that got Judge Nixon convicted a decade before.

But thank you for the great example of a strawman fallacy.

1) Is probably false. Do you have any examples that might convince me that it's true.

2) Is bullshit. The senators who voted to convict Judge Nixon probably didn't even bother to read the articles of impeachment before they voted overwhelmingly (89 to 9) to convict because he was in prison at the time.
  #210  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:48 AM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
It is indeed damning. Damning thing Number 117 of the Trump era. Its going to be different from the previous 116...how?

I must have missed the bit in the transcript where 67 Senators, or 20 in other words GOP types decide to vote to convict.
I admit to being a little confused by this.

I personally was not expecting to wake up today to a headline that said "20 GOP Senators will vote to convict". This is day 1. Why would we expect the end game to occur NOW?
  #211  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:48 AM
wguy123 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidCharlemagne View Post
You should see Breitbart.
Good god! That's why I don't look at Derp-State-Breitbart.
  #212  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:49 AM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
This is the leading headline on foxnews:

"Ukraine call shows Trump pressed for Biden probe, asked about DNC server but no talk of military aid"

Big fat nothingberder.
I guess they mean the military aid that Trump cancelled the week before the call. Ya, that was just a coincidence...
  #213  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:51 AM
wguy123 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
I guess they mean the military aid that Trump cancelled the week before the call. Ya, that was just a coincidence...
Since this was just a "memorandum of a telephone conversation" and not an actual transcription, I'm guessing some items might've been omitted since they are super-nothingberder.
  #214  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:51 AM
Saint Cad is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
It's the notion that there can be no legitimate, country-before-party reason to do it, which is based on the Republicans' own reason for doing it to Clinton. Their own impeachment effort failed and backfired because it was based on spite - they first decided to do it and then looked for a justification.
I disagree with that assessment. It was not because of spite, it was that Slick Willy got away with everything. Remember his ridiculous self-aggrandizing DNC speech in 1988 that was fodder for late-night comedy? Neither did anyone else in 1992. Remember Gennifer Flowers. He had an affair with her, lied about it and no one cared that he was morally bankrupt. Same with the Lewenski affair. Same with talking privately with the Attorney General about the investigation into his wife. Bill Clinton could be revealed to be a serial rapist that shoots his victims in the face as he climaxes and most of the American public would be "Meh. Whatever floats his boat."
__________________
When I was a boy, a mere lad, A FAERIE APPEARED UNTO ME AND TOLD ME I WOULD BE BOTH POPE AND KING! But … I am a bastard. And a pretender.

-Richard Hariss
  #215  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:51 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Well, sure. Hence the half-facetious description of my remark. The point is simply that there could be many reasons why someone doesn't want an impeachment process to begin, and that you can't draw conclusions that the person being impeached will necessarily be helped by it. Since no reason for why someone is against it is never offered.
Ahh. i conflated it with your point about "People don't want to have to hear about it day in and day out". Which I think is true.

Also....has "Can this all be wrapped up before the election" and "How will it affect campaigning" been covered?
  #216  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:53 AM
FlikTheBlue is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
If only they were doing well in the Democratic primary. But they're not.
One of them would probably pull into a close second to Warren if Biden were to drop out.
  #217  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:53 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
I admit to being a little confused by this.

I personally was not expecting to wake up today to a headline that said "20 GOP Senators will vote to convict". This is day 1. Why would we expect the end game to occur NOW?
We're living in an Abrams pilot. Gotta set up the mystery box.
  #218  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:53 AM
Annoyed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Can you not at least accept the possibility that Trump is an aberration? That in fact, someone like him is so rare in modern American politics that it just might not work the second time around. You have to go back to the 19th century to find such insults that Trump spews out being used on a regular basis in presidential elections. And this is in addition to your false assumption that is points are "genuine". They are in fact bullshit most of the time. Have you not heard and seen the same rallies as I have?
The ones that are full to capacity and overflow every single time? Yep, it’s a machine.
  #219  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:54 AM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I disagree with that assessment. It was not because of spite, it was that Slick Willy got away with everything.
Except they couldn't actually come up with anything until Starr manufactured it, could they? Even the entire rest of your post is all bile, not fact. Your assessment of his character is your premise, not your conclusion. Comparisons to the Trump situation are pretty stark.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 09-25-2019 at 11:56 AM.
  #220  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:54 AM
FlikTheBlue is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I disagree with that assessment. It was not because of spite, it was that Slick Willy got away with everything. Remember his ridiculous self-aggrandizing DNC speech in 1988 that was fodder for late-night comedy? Neither did anyone else in 1992. Remember Gennifer Flowers. He had an affair with her, lied about it and no one cared that he was morally bankrupt. Same with the Lewenski affair. Same with talking privately with the Attorney General about the investigation into his wife. Bill Clinton could be revealed to be a serial rapist that shoots his victims in the face as he climaxes and most of the American public would be "Meh. Whatever floats his boat."
And this is why his wife handily won the 2016 election agains Trump. Oh wait, that didn’t happen.
  #221  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:56 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,595
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime/...cal-revelation

The DNI and IG made a criminal referral regarding the whistleblower complaint, but Barr and the DOJ shut it down.

Showing once again that Barr is a highly corrupt and dishonest official, even compared to the rest of the Trump administration.
  #222  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:57 AM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
So many people have previously sent Barr a copy of John Mitchell's mug shot that he either gets the point or can't.
  #223  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:58 AM
BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 21,720
Do we really need to compare the gravity of lying about a blowjob and withholding military aid from an ally unless they agree to a demand to manufacture a scandal about a rival?
  #224  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:59 AM
FlikTheBlue is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime/...cal-revelation

The DNI and IG made a criminal referral regarding the whistleblower complaint, but Barr and the DOJ shut it down.

Showing once again that Barr is a highly corrupt and dishonest official, even compared to the rest of the Trump administration.
This is why I was wondering about the extent of executive privilege. Does it apply or people who want to testify but who Trump would prefer that they not?
  #225  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:00 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Same with talking privately with the Attorney General about the investigation into his wife.
This never happened.
  #226  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:00 PM
Grim Render is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I disagree with that assessment. It was not because of spite, it was that Slick Willy got away with everything. Remember his ridiculous self-aggrandizing DNC speech in 1988 that was fodder for late-night comedy? Neither did anyone else in 1992. Remember Gennifer Flowers. He had an affair with her, lied about it and no one cared that he was morally bankrupt. Same with the Lewenski affair. Same with talking privately with the Attorney General about the investigation into his wife. Bill Clinton could be revealed to be a serial rapist that shoots his victims in the face as he climaxes and most of the American public would be "Meh. Whatever floats his boat."
While you personally might find it irritating, a self-aggrandizing speech is not a crime. Nor is having an affair. I suspect the perception that the Republicans desire to impeach was based on petty issues contributed to the backlash.
  #227  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:00 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
Do we really need to compare the gravity of lying about a blowjob and withholding military aid from an ally unless they agree to a demand to manufacture a scandal about a rival?
But Clinton was just eeevilll and we had to get him for something!

But it's kinda the opposite with this guy, ain't it?
  #228  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:00 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
I think the bulk of those who might (have) oppose(d) impeachment, including people like myself, are people who are opposed to Trump but were fearful impeachment would backfire. Many of us in that group, including me, have changed our minds.
Certainly. Backfiring would be bad. And hopefully the majority of people who are (were) against it also change their minds, as well as those who haven't been paying much attention to all of this now doing so, and realizing for themselves what a disaster Trump has been and would be again for four more years.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 09-25-2019 at 12:01 PM.
  #229  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:02 PM
Saint Cad is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
1) Is probably false. Do you have any examples that might convince me that it's true.

2) Is bullshit. The senators who voted to convict Judge Nixon probably didn't even bother to read the articles of impeachment before they voted overwhelmingly (89 to 9) to convict because he was in prison at the time.
1) Quick search
Quote:
Last year, eight CEOs left their posts due to allegations of sexual misconduct, including two who were forced out after a consensual relationship was discovered, violating company policy. This year has already seen one CEO ousted due to a policy-violating consensual relationship.
2) Double bullshit back to you. THAT Article of Impeachment (number III) was the one he was acquitted of. The Senate held the position that criminal conviction does not lead to an automatic impeachment/conviction and that the Senate sits as an independent jury and that impeachment charges are decided on their own merits.
  #230  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:02 PM
AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
I admit to being a little confused by this.

I personally was not expecting to wake up today to a headline that said "20 GOP Senators will vote to convict". This is day 1. Why would we expect the end game to occur NOW?
The GOP should by all rights have gotten rid of Trump about 1200 days ago. Day 1 was a long time ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
This is the leading headline on foxnews:

"Ukraine call shows Trump pressed for Biden probe, asked about DNC server but no talk of military aid"

Big fat nothingberder.
Yeah, but to get rid of DJT, you need these guys to abandon him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidCharlemagne View Post
You should see Breitbart.
Its this

Quote:

Trump Taunts Impeachment Democrats

‘Got Them by Surprise’ with Transcript Release
AP Photo/Andrew Harnik
President Donald Trump previewed the release of a transcript of his phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Wednesday, questioning whether Democrats would “apologize” for launching an impeachment inquiry into the situation.
If there was an alien observing this, s/he might think Earth is a mishmash of parallel universes,
  #231  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:04 PM
El_Kabong's Avatar
El_Kabong is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle
Posts: 15,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
It is indeed damning. Damning thing Number 117 of the Trump era. Its going to be different from the previous 116...how?

I must have missed the bit in the transcript where 67 Senators, or 20 in other words GOP types decide to vote to convict.
I'm sure you know what the above has to do with my post that you quoted, but I sure as Hell don't.
  #232  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:06 PM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
Do we really need to compare the gravity of lying about a blowjob and withholding military aid from an ally unless they agree to a demand to manufacture a scandal about a rival?
FFS "Fighting ignorance" is right there in the fucking header. Its been 25 (?) years! It was PERRRRJURRRRRYYY. Perjury is a serious crime. Now you want to go meta then the correct answer is "Political witchhunt vs....whatever Trump did"

But 'lying about a blowjob' is pure disgenuinity. Yup thats a word. I have decreed it.
  #233  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:07 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
By "soft independents," I mean those that tacked to Obama in 2008/2012 and then to Trump in 2016.
Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
I disagree that the American oligarchs would prefer Trump to Biden. What they want more than anything is stability in the American markets so they can continue to reliably make money.
Yep. I retract what I said regarding the oligarchs. And I call myself an American, to forget such a thing!
  #234  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:07 PM
Saint Cad is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Render View Post
While you personally might find it irritating, a self-aggrandizing speech is not a crime. Nor is having an affair. I suspect the perception that the Republicans desire to impeach was based on petty issues contributed to the backlash.
Yet again. Getting a blowjob is not a crime but committing perjury about it is. At least stick to the actual charges he was impeached for.

And I never said those were crimes did I, so you are mischaracterizing what I said. My point was that no matter what Clinton did the public loved him and there was no way the Senate would convict a popular figure like him no matter what he did.
__________________
When I was a boy, a mere lad, A FAERIE APPEARED UNTO ME AND TOLD ME I WOULD BE BOTH POPE AND KING! But … I am a bastard. And a pretender.

-Richard Hariss
  #235  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:08 PM
El_Kabong's Avatar
El_Kabong is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle
Posts: 15,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
Do we really need to compare the gravity of lying about a blowjob and withholding military aid from an ally unless they agree to a demand to manufacture a scandal about a rival?
Yes, could you go through it again, please? I'm just not getting it.
  #236  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:09 PM
SmellMyWort is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
1) Quick search


2) Double bullshit back to you. THAT Article of Impeachment (number III) was the one he was acquitted of. The Senate held the position that criminal conviction does not lead to an automatic impeachment/conviction and that the Senate sits as an independent jury and that impeachment charges are decided on their own merits.
For fuck's sake, you're comparing post-"me-to" corporate America to what it was in 1998!
  #237  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:12 PM
Saint Cad is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 13,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
But Clinton was just eeevilll and we had to get him for something!

But it's kinda the opposite with this guy, ain't it?
I guaranty that if Trump were caught committing perjury about a private affair the Dems on this board would completely ignore that it was his private life and come out with their pitchforks and torches and demand impeachment because perjury is a high crime or misdemenor no matter what the subject is.
__________________
When I was a boy, a mere lad, A FAERIE APPEARED UNTO ME AND TOLD ME I WOULD BE BOTH POPE AND KING! But … I am a bastard. And a pretender.

-Richard Hariss
  #238  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:16 PM
nelliebly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
So that’s it?

Seems the motivator here circling the wagons around their best 2020 chance - Biden - and doing a massive deflection.
I know from your posts you tend to have a knee-jerk reaction toward "the left" and Democrats. Here's why you should hold off doing so in this instance: any bar you lower now, any political or ethical standard you jettison in your rush to exempt Trump, will come back to bite us all if a Democrat is president and in even roughly the same position. If you love your country, you put principle ahead of politics. It's painful. Ask anyone who supported Nixon until the evidence came out against him. But it's necessary.
  #239  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:17 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
FFS "Fighting ignorance" is right there in the fucking header. Its been 25 (?) years! It was PERRRRJURRRRRYYY. Perjury is a serious crime. Now you want to go meta then the correct answer is "Political witchhunt vs....whatever Trump did"

But 'lying about a blowjob' is pure disgenuinity. Yup thats a word. I have decreed it.
If I may jump in, yes, perjury is indeed a serious a crime. However, if that perjury is a result of not wanting a country of 330 million people to know what a selfish cad you have been, and given that it's very easy for people to understand why one would lie in that case, that this made the whole impeachment process overblown in a lot of people's minds.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 09-25-2019 at 12:18 PM.
  #240  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:17 PM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
One of them would probably pull into a close second to Warren if Biden were to drop out.
I don't see any evidence of that. If you have some, I'd love to see it.

Harris pulled briefly ahead after her attack on Biden in the first debate, but it was very short-lived. If she had the chops, don't you think she should have been able to hold onto that lead?
  #241  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:17 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I guaranty that if Trump were caught committing perjury about a private affair the Dems on this board would completely ignore that it was his private life and come out with their pitchforks and torches and demand impeachment because perjury is a high crime or misdemenor no matter what the subject is.
Why consider hypotheticals? Dems on this board are coming out with pitchforks and demanding impeachment because of traitorous activities with foreign governments and attempted election manipulation. Who the fuck cares what we'd do about private affairs right now? Talk about what's happening right now, not what might happen in your head.
  #242  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:19 PM
nelliebly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I guaranty that if Trump were caught committing perjury about a private affair the Dems on this board would completely ignore that it was his private life and come out with their pitchforks and torches and demand impeachment because perjury is a high crime or misdemenor no matter what the subject is.
If someone lies under oath, it's no longer a private affair.
  #243  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:21 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
I guaranty that if Trump were caught committing perjury about a private affair the Dems on this board would completely ignore that it was his private life and come out with their pitchforks and torches and demand impeachment because perjury is a high crime or misdemenor no matter what the subject is.
May I direct you to the Stormy Daniels hush-money payoff? What was your reaction when you found out about it?
  #244  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:24 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 23,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
why consider hypotheticals? Dems on this board are coming out with pitchforks and demanding impeachment because of traitorous activities with foreign governments and attempted election manipulation. Who the fuck cares what we'd do about private affairs right now? Talk about what's happening right now, not what might happen in your head.
Huh.

"ZOMFG, IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE REAL CRIMES THE TRUMPS ARE ADMITTING TO, YOU GUYS WOULD JUST SIT THERE AND WHINE ABOUT PAYING OFF STORMY DANIELS WITH CAMPAIGN FUNDS!!"

Last edited by JohnT; 09-25-2019 at 12:25 PM.
  #245  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:25 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,176
The bar was set with the Clinton impeachment. Lying under oath is an impeachable offense. I can live with that. It's also why Trump was afraid to have a sit down with Mueller. Violating the oath of office is also impeachable; there you are, Trump.

Last edited by bobot; 09-25-2019 at 12:26 PM.
  #246  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:26 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 23,631
oK, so I didn't see Elvis's post. GMTA and all that.
  #247  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:26 PM
Defensive Indifference is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7,251
I finally had a chance to read the memo. Not that anyone asked, but here's my read:
  • Trump is known for being Putin's bitch
  • Trump has stalled military aid to Ukraine
  • Ukraine is being bullied by Putin
  • Trump starts the call saying, "you know I'm your friend. I do a lot for you."
  • Zelenskyy says, "yes, you're a great friend" and asks for help defending himself from Russia.
  • Trump says, "Sure, but first I need you to find that DNC server."
  • Zelenskyy says, "yes."
  • Trump says, "and I need you to investigate Joe Biden Jr."
  • Zelenskyy says, "yes."
  • Trump says, "I look forward to seeing you at the White House."

This strikes me as a textbook protection racket. It's a fucking obvious quid-pro-quo! It's a Mario Puzo scene for god's sake!
  #248  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:29 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
oK, so I didn't see Elvis's post. GMTA and all that.
It was just the most obvious response to the latest iteration of "Well, you guys would have done the same thing because you're no better than us because nobody could be!" - as if the facts weren't what they are.
  #249  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:31 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Your cite does not support your original claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
2) Double bullshit back to you. THAT Article of Impeachment (number III) was the one he was acquitted of. The Senate held the position that criminal conviction does not lead to an automatic impeachment/conviction and that the Senate sits as an independent jury and that impeachment charges are decided on their own merits.
The guy was in prison. It is not analogous to Clinton's impeachment for this reason. Your perjury is perjury view lacks nuance.
  #250  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:32 PM
FlikTheBlue is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
I don't see any evidence of that. If you have some, I'd love to see it.

Harris pulled briefly ahead after her attack on Biden in the first debate, but it was very short-lived. If she had the chops, don't you think she should have been able to hold onto that lead?
They’re in 4th and 5th place. I assume, but have no polling evidence to back it up, that Biden’s supporters would be more likely to go to Harris and Buttigieg than they would be to go to Warren or Sanders or one of the other candidates who is even further back in the pack than Harris and Buttigieg are.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017