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Old 07-01-2019, 10:10 PM
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Trump's neurological health - a rational discussion please


I would like to start by requesting we keep this discussion based on facts and reasonable inferences. Let's try to analyze the available evidence and avoid partisan debates if we can. I'm only interested in discussing whether it's reasonable to believe that Trump is showing symptoms of dementia, not what should be done if he is.

OK.... To my untrained eye, it appears that Trump's verbal skills have declined noticeably from just a few years ago. During the Republican primary debates, I think the majority of his sentences held to a fairly coherent Subject-Verb-Object format, and he had the ability to deliver sharp verbal jabs at times. He may have been repetitive, and he may have said things that were not factually accurate, but he stayed in the ballpark of recognized syntax and grammar. This seems no longer to be the case. It seems (again to my untrained eye, and admittedly I haven't done a rigorous analysis) that his sentences have become less and less coherent and more belligerent. His calls to Fox are louder and more wandering, often leaving the Fox anchors embarrassed.

In addition, he increasingly seems to be unable to recognize fairly common words and ideas. Recently, he thought a question about "busing" was referring to simple student transportation, and he mangled a Medal of Honor citation when he got to a line about an attacker jumping out of "a wardrobe". Trump stopped reading and "corrected" the line to "wearing a wardrobe". Today, he boasted that the Fourth of July parade would feature brand new Sherman tanks, a type that hasn't been made since WWII.

More and more, his facial expression seems fixed and mask-like, and he walks with a strained, clumsy gait. When he stands, his arms are rigid at his side. I haven't even seen his trademark thumbs-up in a while.

Some guy on Twitter who goes by "Tom Joseph" has been talking about this. I can't vouch for this Twitter user, but he has collected some interesting images and made some points that don't seem crazy. Joseph argues that Trump is showing symptoms of something called "frontotemporal dementia". He believes that Ivanka is glued to his side because she's his caregiver, trying futilely to keep his dementia hidden. Here's a picture Joseph uses to illustrate the point: https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/stat...34081778364416. Trump's jutting tongue and Ivanka's pained expression are jarring.

Joseph also points out that Trump often seems to be wearing something bulky around his lower back, as seen here: https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/stat...93452686848000. Joseph believes Trump is wearing a back brace to counter the loss of balance due to neurological deterioration.

I don't know shit about any of this, and maybe this Joseph guy is a crank. But, Trump does seem, to me, to be less and less coherent and stable by the day. Is this due to a progressive neurological disorder, or just the stress of the job on a typical 73-year-old? Or am I just a hopelessly partisan Democrat seeing what I want to see?

What do you think?
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:26 PM
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I'm not going to diagnose him, but the guy doing the Oprah interviews back in the 80s and today's Trump might as well be 2 different people.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:26 PM
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Similarly, in his appearances on Larry King Live back in the 90s, he used complex sentence structure, subordinate clauses, and generally sound syntax and thought structure.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:32 PM
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Trump's response when asked if he agreed with Putin that Western liberal democracy is obsolete:

Quote:
Well, I mean he may feel that way. He's sees what's going on, I guess, if you look at what's happening in Los Angeles, where it's so sad to look, and what's happening in San Francisco and a couple of other cities, which are run by an extraordinary group of liberal people. I don't know what they're thinking, but he does see things that are happening in the United States that would probably preclude him from saying how wonderful it is [...]
Peter, I don't know what they're thinking. But when you look at Los Angeles, when you look at San Francisco, when you look at some of the other cities — and not a lot, not a lot — but you don't want it to spread. And at a certain point, I think the federal government maybe has to get involved. We can't let that continue to happen to our cities.
I mean... does this sound like a neurologically healthy human being?

Last edited by pjacks; 07-01-2019 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:56 PM
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Trump's response when asked if he agreed with Putin that Western liberal democracy is obsolete:


I mean... does this sound like a neurologically healthy human being?
A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:16 AM
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A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
He literally thinks "Western liberal democracy" refers to liberal Democrats on the West Coast.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:44 AM
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A wealthy person probably isn't familiar with everything middle class folks are.
I wonder if his handlers have asked him to "dumb things down" to appeal to some of his supporters.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:45 AM
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A wealthy person probably isn't familiar with everything middle class folks are.
I wonder if his handlers have asked him to "dumb things down" to appeal to some of his supporters.
I've never been under the impression that Trump has 'handlers' as conventionally defined; he pretty clearly just does and says whatever he wants. Who, specifically would be a few of these notional 'handlers'?

What's most striking to me about Trump, aside from the increasingly frequent odd verbal tics already mentioned, is his near-total inability to take on and integrate new information.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 07-02-2019 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:21 AM
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He literally thinks "Western liberal democracy" refers to liberal Democrats on the West Coast.
I think that's the case. He is incredibly ill-informed and has likely never encountered the term "western democracy" because he reads nothing and is unlikely to listen to programs where the phrase might be uttered.

The bit about his posture and gait are interesting but I don't think conclusive. It could be a matter of his suits not fitting well.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:15 AM
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A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
That's why he should stick with the written word. Covfefe! Hamberders!
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:52 AM
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A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
For him it isn't a lot, it is most, and it sounds bad when listened to as well as when read. Emotionally, verbally and physically his problems are there for all to see, and you aren't doing him any favors by covering for him.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:07 AM
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Here is an interview trump did with tim russert in 1999. I think he was 53.

The cognitive decline from then to now is impossible to ignore. Trump was cogent, coherent and used complex sentences in his 50s. His control over his emotions was much stronger. His comprehension of politics and global affairs was far stronger.

https://youtu.be/G_IG07XhT3k

Personally I think trump has both dementia and a narcissistic disorder. We need legitimate, independent medical evaluations.

By comparison to the video of him in his 50s, here is a video of modern trump appearing to get lost walking from air force one to his limo.

https://youtu.be/sF5TGQgQJeA
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:28 AM
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Here is an interview trump did with tim russert in 1999. I think he was 53.

The cognitive decline from then to now is impossible to ignore. Trump was cogent, coherent and used complex sentences in his 50s. His control over his emotions was much stronger. His comprehension of politics and global affairs was far stronger.

https://youtu.be/G_IG07XhT3k

Personally I think trump has both dementia and a narcissistic disorder. We need legitimate, independent medical evaluations.

By comparison to the video of him in his 50s, here is a video of modern trump appearing to get lost walking from air force one to his limo.

https://youtu.be/sF5TGQgQJeA
And it looks like one of the Air Force guys was standing there with the door open for him.

Also note how he was walking down the stairs, looking down at his feet as though he was unsure how to navigate the steps. I know that older people often have difficulty with stairs, so I don't know if his capability with steps is in the typical range for a man his age and weight.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Here is an interview trump did with tim russert in 1999. I think he was 53.

The cognitive decline from then to now is impossible to ignore. Trump was cogent, coherent and used complex sentences in his 50s. His control over his emotions was much stronger. His comprehension of politics and global affairs was far stronger.

https://youtu.be/G_IG07XhT3k

Personally I think trump has both dementia and a narcissistic disorder. We need legitimate, independent medical evaluations.

By comparison to the video of him in his 50s, here is a video of modern trump appearing to get lost walking from air force one to his limo.

https://youtu.be/sF5TGQgQJeA
What the hell, one more: I walk down stairs more guardedly than Trump does, and I'm pretty much, or at least close to, the ideal weight for my height, and am almost 56 years old, way younger than Trump. I do it because I don't want to bust my ass and break my hip. I'd say Trump does it for the same reasons, and because he knows if he falls or slips, he will never hear the end of it, and not because of any neurological difficulties.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 07-08-2019 at 06:50 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:26 AM
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A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
I recommend then, that you listen to this (and other examples) instead of reading it. It's just as disjointed and makes just as little sense. In fact, at least with the transcript you can at least look at the whole jumble and try to superimpose a coherent point; when you're listening to this word salad, it's almost impossible to understand.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:47 PM
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A LOT of verbal speech -- especially "off the cuff" remarks -- translates very poorly to the page. Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript.
Yeah... I mean, it's possible the man has a few screws loose. Sometimes I think I hear hints of that. But of all the examples given in this thread, he sounds like he always does... a fifth-grader giving a book report without having read the book, running out the clock by spewing word salad.

That kind of verbiage is terrible, and it looks worse when transcribed. But the only disorder it betrays is the attitude that this is acceptable behavior.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:40 PM
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Trump's response when asked if he agreed with Putin that Western liberal democracy is obsolete:



I mean... does this sound like a neurologically healthy human being?
Yeah, pretty much. And it sounds to me like an ignorant buffoon trying desperately to cover up the fact that he has absolutely no idea how to answer the question, the subject of which he is intimately aware that he knows nothing about. Again, not evidence of neurologically poor health.

ETA: Note how I mangled that last part of the second sentence? And I assure you, I am in perfect neurological health.

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Old 07-02-2019, 08:04 AM
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If you called an airline, a cell phone company, or some other organization, and got a customer service representative who speech was as incoherent as Donald Trump's, within three minutes you'd be demanding to be transferred to someone who speaks English.

Is that a neurological issue? Don't know. But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:31 AM
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Maybe stairs are a problem if you're wearing a new pair of elevator shoes, or if your bone spurs are acting up. Or if you need glasses to see stairs clearly, and you're too vain to wear them. But that isn't neurological.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:37 AM
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The pictures in the OP don't mean much to me. Photographs are a 1/100th of a second snapshot in time and can be chosen to make things appear that are not.

I would put much more weight on analyzing his off-the-cuff speech patterns as some have linked to above.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:25 AM
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The pictures in the OP don't mean much to me. Photographs are a 1/100th of a second snapshot in time and can be chosen to make things appear that are not.

I would put much more weight on analyzing his off-the-cuff speech patterns as some have linked to above.
What about the video offered a couple posts up from yours?
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:23 AM
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Trump has been incurious for a very long time. I think the fact that he doesn't understand the controversy surrounding 'busing', or a concept like 'western liberalism', is just indicative of his lifelong aversion to knowing anything that doesn't have to do with him.

Being a lifelong narcissist, Trump has only been able to talk about himself and has never had the interest or ability to learn about things outside that orbit. Now that he's in his 70's, this attitude has narrowed his world view to such a degree that he seems confused or lost when he is asked to talk about virtually anything other than his own life experience.

I don't think it's dementia, but it is completely backward to what we should strive for in our elected representatives.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:27 AM
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Trump has been incurious for a very long time. I think the fact that he doesn't understand the controversy surrounding 'busing', or a concept like 'western liberalism', is just indicative of his lifelong aversion to knowing anything that doesn't have to do with him.

Being a lifelong narcissist, Trump has only been able to talk about himself and has never had the interest or ability to learn about things outside that orbit. Now that he's in his 70's, this attitude has narrowed his world view to such a degree that he seems confused or lost when he is asked to talk about virtually anything other than his own life experience.

I don't think it's dementia, but it is completely backward to what we should strive for in our elected representatives.
I think the evidence presented here and elsewhere shows a definite deterioration in thought, speech and movement.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:42 PM
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I think the evidence presented here and elsewhere shows a definite deterioration in thought, speech and movement.
I've been estranged from my father for years, but at the end of our relationship (when he was in his 60's), I found it nearly impossible to communicate with him because of his self-centerdness. He seemed incapable of discussing anything other than himself, and he'd get distracted and lose focus if you were talking. Although he had spent many years as a successful businessman, I was struck by how 'dumb' he seemed, since his thoughts were so narrow.

Trump is like that. He isn't interested in knowing anything, so you can't talk with him. When he speaks, it's repetitive, because the only thoughts in his head are the ones he came up with, and he's not that creative. His worldview is essentially 'stuck' in some place and time where he decided he was fully formed, and further growth, development, or knowledge is deemed useless.

I just don't think this is new. I mean, yes, in his 70s (and lacking a healthful diet or any sort of exercise), I believe Trump is slowing down. But he's long been boring, bland, and lacking in substance. That is nothing new. What is new is simply the fact that legions of reporters (not merely gossip columnists in NYC) are now hanging on his every dumb word, and the areas he is asked to opine on focus on the biggest issues of the day.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:51 PM
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I've been estranged from my father for years, but at the end of our relationship (when he was in his 60's), I found it nearly impossible to communicate with him because of his self-centerdness. He seemed incapable of discussing anything other than himself, and he'd get distracted and lose focus if you were talking. Although he had spent many years as a successful businessman, I was struck by how 'dumb' he seemed, since his thoughts were so narrow.

Trump is like that. He isn't interested in knowing anything, so you can't talk with him. When he speaks, it's repetitive, because the only thoughts in his head are the ones he came up with, and he's not that creative. His worldview is essentially 'stuck' in some place and time where he decided he was fully formed, and further growth, development, or knowledge is deemed useless.

I just don't think this is new. I mean, yes, in his 70s (and lacking a healthful diet or any sort of exercise), I believe Trump is slowing down. But he's long been boring, bland, and lacking in substance. That is nothing new. What is new is simply the fact that legions of reporters (not merely gossip columnists in NYC) are now hanging on his every dumb word, and the areas he is asked to opine on focus on the biggest issues of the day.
You are focusing on Trump as he is today, while ignoring the examples given as to how he used to be. Can you not see a difference?
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:56 PM
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You are focusing on Trump as he is today, while ignoring the examples given as to how he used to be. Can you not see a difference?
I thought that I acknowledged the difference. But I attributed it to:
Being in his 70ís
Poor diet
No exercise
More people listening to him on a regular basis
A greater scope of things to talk about

In other words, I agree that he sounds more confused and befuddled than decades ago. I just donít attribute it to dementia. (I freely admit that I could be wrong).

Having said that, it is a data point in this discussion that his father had dementia in his later years. Fred, however, lived until 93.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:41 AM
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His latest statement:
Quote:
President Trump lamented the state of American cities in an interview Monday night, describing homelessness as "a phenomena that started two years ago" that is causing public health hazards.

Trump sat for an interview with Tucker Carlson during his trip to South Korea over the weekend. The Fox News host observed that cities in Japan, host of the Group of 20 summit, had "no graffiti" and "no one going to the bathroom on the streets," and said New York City and Los Angeles had a "major problem with filth."

"It's a phenomena that started two years ago," said Trump, who took office two-and-a-half years ago. "It's disgraceful."

The president described cities in a dire state, claiming police officers are "getting sick just by walking the beat," and some people are "living in hell."

"Although some of them have mental problems where they don't even know they're living that way, in fact perhaps they like living that way," he added.
Is this man mentally competent enough to run a country?
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:41 AM
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His latest statement:
President Trump lamented the state of American cities in an interview Monday night, describing homelessness as "a phenomena that started two years ago" that is causing public health hazards.
Is this man mentally competent enough to run a country?
Far be it from me to actually defend Trump, but that isn't what he said. He talked about increased amount of filth. He's talking about garbage and trash piling up. He talks about it being a health hazard for policemen on the beat. He says it's hell for the people that live there. At no point in the interview did he mention homelessness.

He says that it wasn't like this three years ago. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's plausible it's got noticeably worse in that period.

"Homelessness started two years ago" is something he didn't say.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:08 PM
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"Homelessness started two years ago" is something he didn't say.
Fake news; we all heard it.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:45 AM
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Homelessness started two years ago, Sherman tanks are brand new, we'll have a plan in four weeks... Is this type of thing evidence of time confusion brought on by dementia? Or is he just talking out his ass with no regard for the truth?
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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Homelessness started two years ago, Sherman tanks are brand new, we'll have a plan in four weeks... Is this type of thing evidence of time confusion brought on by dementia? Or is he just talking out his ass with no regard for the truth?
I'm guessing the answers are "Yes" and "Yes".
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:14 PM
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Yes, there is a difference between his acuity as demonstrated in interviews 20 years ago and now. Arguably he was elected in this state, and the only people empowered to do anything about it refuse to act.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:30 PM
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Huh? How can he blame homelessness on Obama if it started on his watch?
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:57 PM
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Huh? How can he blame homelessness on Obama if it started on his watch?
Harry Frankfurt, On Bullshit

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When an honest man speaks, he says
only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is
correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to
be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is
neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye
is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the
liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in
getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the
things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out,
or makes them up, to suit his purpose.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:50 PM
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He may or may not be having dementia, but his confusion over busing, western liberalism, and Sherman tanks, is not evidence of it. Those are just garden variety ignorance. These are things that any person educated in history and political science should know, but the random person on the street would probably get wrong. Trump is basically what you get when you take a random loud mouth in a bar who has an opinion on everything, but very little actual knowledge and actually put him in charge. Trump only looks ignorant when compared with other policy makers, but he's probably knows as much about anything as the average man on the street. This is why he is so appealing for his "straight talk". Unlike the educated "elites" who usually get elevated to power, Trump talks and thinks just like they do.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:25 PM
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He may or may not be having dementia, but his confusion over busing, western liberalism, and Sherman tanks, is not evidence of it. Those are just garden variety ignorance. These are things that any person educated in history and political science should know, but the random person on the street would probably get wrong. Trump is basically what you get when you take a random loud mouth in a bar who has an opinion on everything, but very little actual knowledge and actually put him in charge. Trump only looks ignorant when compared with other policy makers, but he's probably knows as much about anything as the average man on the street. This is why he is so appealing for his "straight talk". Unlike the educated "elites" who usually get elevated to power, Trump talks and thinks just like they do.
I disagree totally. His inability to control his emotions, his constantly losing his train of thought, the videos of him getting lost and confused. This speaks to something deeper than just being a low information citizen (which I agree he is that too).

Here are videos of Trump trying to walk out of a room before signing a bill that the event he was speaking at was devoted to. He would give a speech about a bill or executive order, then forget to sign it and try to walk out of the room. People have blips and memory lapses, but when you give a speech about signing a bill and then try to walk out because you forgot what you are doing is not normal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX4EnNQlQpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtRcVerB8jE

Here it Trump forgetting his own wife is standing next to him and him saying he wishes she could be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghKTJCqutI

People don't do that just because they don't follow politics. You don't forget your wife is standing next to you (likely after she traveled with you to a location) just because you don't follow politics.

Here is the text to one of Donald Trump's speeches.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do...rump-sentence/

Quote:
“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”
He didn't talk like that in the 80s and 90s.
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  #37  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:10 PM
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I disagree totally. His inability to control his emotions, his constantly losing his train of thought, the videos of him getting lost and confused. This speaks to something deeper than just being a low information citizen (which I agree he is that too).

Here are videos of Trump trying to walk out of a room before signing a bill that the event he was speaking at was devoted to. He would give a speech about a bill or executive order, then forget to sign it and try to walk out of the room. People have blips and memory lapses, but when you give a speech about signing a bill and then try to walk out because you forgot what you are doing is not normal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX4EnNQlQpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtRcVerB8jE

Here it Trump forgetting his own wife is standing next to him and him saying he wishes she could be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghKTJCqutI

People don't do that just because they don't follow politics. You don't forget your wife is standing next to you (likely after she traveled with you to a location) just because you don't follow politics.

Here is the text to one of Donald Trump's speeches.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do...rump-sentence/



He didn't talk like that in the 80s and 90s.
His leaving without signing the bills is pretty telling. He seems confused especially in the second example.

The one with Melania, I'm not sure. He could be saying, "Melania made the trip because this touched her heart and she really wanted to be here to show her support." This could be another mangled sentence rather than an example of profound confusion. I could go either way on that one.
  #38  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:00 PM
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...People have blips and memory lapses, but when you give a speech about signing a bill and then try to walk out because you forgot what you are doing is not normal....
Well, if you are a nitwit narcissist who has become used to reading your lines off cue cards when in front of cameras, I can see how walking out without signing anything could happen. His tiny brain is concentrating on his lines.

Keep in mind, DJT was a performer, a cast member of Apprentice and Celebrity Apprentice. The role he played on The Apprentice was his greatest success prior to being cast as POTUS. In fact, so many people confused the character he played with the actual man, they fell for his shtick and elected him.

Keep in mind, Trump was not in charge of the outcome of the program in any way. He was playing a character named Donald Trump. All the decisions about who to fire were made by the producers. Every bit of the boardroom scenes and his other appearances on the show were very much scripted. No shocker he does so poorly when speaking off the cuff. Particularly when it is about things of which he has no knowledge.

Possibly if Mark Burnett were producing DJT's presidency things would be working out better.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 07-02-2019 at 11:03 PM.
  #39  
Old 07-03-2019, 09:55 AM
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Here it Trump forgetting his own wife is standing next to him and him saying he wishes she could be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ghKTJCqutI.
That's because it's the fake Melania!
  #40  
Old 09-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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The link in this post from the elections thread should be required watching for anyone who thinks Donnie's mental functioning is where it was even four short years ago.
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I will say, the signs of his growing decline can be seen in this comparison between 2015 and 2019 Dotard:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...433230349?s=19
The difference between 2015 and 2019 is shocking. The energy level, clarity of speech, coherence-- the decline is stunning. The presidency usually ages people, but turning their brains to mush? His brain is turning to mush from some other cause.
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  #41  
Old 09-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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The link in this post from the elections thread should be required watching for anyone who thinks Donnie's mental functioning is where it was even four short years ago.

The difference between 2015 and 2019 is shocking. The energy level, clarity of speech, coherence-- the decline is stunning. The presidency usually ages people, but turning their brains to mush? His brain is turning to mush from some other cause.
I'm not disagreeing, but the former clips was from an exuberant campaign rally, in an environment where he thrives and feeds off of the energy in the room. The latter was a dry reading of a policy announcement in front of the White House. Maybe his slow, methodical speech was more boredom or an attempt to come across as "serious."

Any links to how he looked at his last campaign rally? That might be a bit more of an apples to apples comparison. And believe me, it pains me to give Trump any whiff of benefit of the doubt.
  #42  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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GOP won't dump him until he is 6 feet under or very,very close to that.
  #43  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:55 PM
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Sheesh. I thought it was the biggest tell in the beginning when he said he wouldn't do press briefings. All of his gaffes he gave in the last two years would've been noticed at press briefings in January 2017. He knew we'd notice his decline.

As far as '80s and '90s, he was just as demented then. Boasts about a book he wrote (he didn't), gives stump funds to fund a casino and a tower, only to be planned bankruptcies. Yet, he's surprised when no one-- NO ONE-- will loan him anymore money for real estate. Demented then, demented now.

Last edited by Locrian; 07-02-2019 at 04:57 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-02-2019, 08:34 PM
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As far as '80s and '90s, he was just as demented then.
This is clearly not the case if one compares recordings of him from 20-30 years ago with live presentations of him now.

He was just as ignorant back then, just as narcissistic, just as obnoxious, yes. What is different now is that his overall mental faculties are showing obvious signs of decay.
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Last edited by Steve MB; 07-02-2019 at 08:35 PM.
  #45  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
This is clearly not the case if one compares recordings of him from 20-30 years ago with live presentations of him now.

He was just as ignorant back then, just as narcissistic, just as obnoxious, yes. What is different now is that his overall mental faculties are showing obvious signs of decay.
Yes; it's the difference between "wrong inna head" (which he's always been) and "demented" (which he probably is, now, but wasn't 20 years ago). "Demented" is a specific type of "wrong inna head".




And thanks to Wesley Clark and the article quoted for teaching me new vocabulary. My Grandmother used to do the first thing (semantic paraphasia), where she would clearly use one word for a similar-sounding (and usually related) different word: what she meant was correct, what she said was not, and we could clearly see the first through the second.
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Last edited by Nava; 07-03-2019 at 03:22 AM.
  #46  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:59 PM
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Not to derail the thread, but this is another reason I don't want the likes of Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc. as president either. We need to stop this trend of 70-80 year old presidents; it's not ageist to point out what aging does to the brain.
  #47  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:11 PM
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Not to derail the thread, but this is another reason I don't want the likes of Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc. as president either. We need to stop this trend of 70-80 year old presidents; it's not ageist to point out what aging does to the brain.
While that is a valid concern, the rates of dementia don't skyrocket until after age 80. At age 80 its about 10%, at age 95 its around 50%. So a president serving in their early 80s will hopefully be in the clear.

https://www.oatext.com/img/HPC-2-147-g003.gif

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/imag...615706-gr1.jpg
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 07-02-2019 at 05:12 PM.
  #48  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:25 PM
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A 10% chance of a person with dementia having their finger on the nuclear button and command of the armed forces is not reassuring.

I think Biden and Bernie are too old at this point, and a 2nd Trump term is really pushing it. They may be OK now but I'm not confident they'll still have all their faculties 6 years from now if they're elected. And I'm not confident someone in their 80's can handle the stress and sleep deprivation if there is a major crisis such as a nuclear war.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:24 AM
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I wasn't aware mushrooms were susceptible to syphillis.
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  #50  
Old 07-03-2019, 09:37 AM
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I truly don't understand why people are claiming not to see this clear deterioration in his demeanor, speech, and affect. If your parent displayed this behavior, you'd pack them off to a neurologist in a New York minute.
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