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Old 03-19-2020, 10:29 PM
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California Government "Closes Down" State


The governor in CA has issued some kind of "Stay Home" order.

Does he really have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution? And for how long, a week, a month, a year or until the State decides its "ALL CLEAR".

Supposedly, Californians are not allowed to go out of their homes unless they have what the State considers to be "essential" business outside of their homes, grocery shopping, doctor appointments, etc.

So I will be arrested for driving down to the beach to watch the sunset?

Have we really become a nation of sheep?
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:46 PM
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Here (two-page PDF warning) is the actual order from the governor. As you can see, anyone stepping outside their home will be shot on sight.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:11 PM
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We are all under House Arrest (with limited exceptions)
Enforcement—CA Govt Code § 8665 (2017)
Any person who violates any of the provisions of this chapter or who refuses or willfully neglects to obey any lawful order or regulation promulgated or issued as provided in this chapter, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punishable by a fine of not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment for not to exceed six months or by both such fine and imprisonment.

While they are at it, why don't they declare fire arms a "health risk" for you and the people around you and send the CA National Guard to homes to collect everyone's weapons?
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:37 PM
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As a practical matter, anyone is allowed outside to do anything they want, as long as they maintain social distance (families and intimates excluded). Lots of people who like to give advice encourage going outside for exercise, while observing elementary precautions. A walk in the park is a lot less risky than buying groceries.

Also as a practical matter, there aren't that many places to go. Bars are closed, I think, and restaurants can only do curbside takeout (that way you only get germs from the staff and not from the general public). Movie and live theaters, and sports venues are closed. You're not going to be invited to anyone's home, probably, and if you were you shouldn't go.

The whole point of this exercise is to slow the spread of the disease so that there are enough medical facilities for all the serious cases as they arise. I personally don't see how this would take less than at least a couple of months, but time will tell.

California isn't the first state to take this step. It won't be the last.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
Have we really become a nation of sheep?
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Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
While they are at it, why don't they declare fire arms a "health risk" for you and the people around you and send the CA National Guard to homes to collect everyone's weapons?
With such statements, surely you didn't mean to put this in General Questions? Moved to Politics and Elections.

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Old 03-20-2020, 12:35 AM
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I think the thread actually belongs in the often overlooked Hyperbole & Manufactured Outrage forum. It’s a bit difficult to see on the Main page, but if you go down to MPSIMS and the rotate the page through the imaginary axis you find it in between Bill Mahar Rhetorical Idiocies and Sean Hannity Conspiranoia.

Stranger

Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 03-20-2020 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:57 AM
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Hyperbole & Manufactured Outrage though it may be, it's a real thing among the wing-nuts.

Governors and Mayors are declaring emergencies, which give them all kinds of emergency powers under existing emergency powers laws and ordinances. These laws contain generic laundry-lists of powers that the executive (governor or mayor) may exercise -- not that all of the powers will necessarily be invoked.

These powers typically include things like banning sales of firearms. Also power to ban meetings and assemblies, power to take possession and even title (!) to private property, and draconian stuffs like that.

So when someone issues an executive order to deal with Covid-19, the right-wingnuts immediately scream THEY'RE COMING FOR OUR GUNS!!!!!!!!!

Example (Right-wing-nut web site trigger warning): Exec Order Related To COVID-19 Gives Champaign, IL Mayor Power To Ban Sale Of Firearms, Ammunition and Alcohol, Gives City Ability To Take Possession Of Private Property.

Last edited by Senegoid; 03-20-2020 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
The governor in CA has issued some kind of "Stay Home" order.

Does he really have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution? And for how long, a week, a month, a year or until the State decides its "ALL CLEAR".
An old adage embraced in the United States (it is of unknown provenance though often erroneously attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.) states, “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.” In other words, once your rights begin to infringe on the rights of other citizens, they cease to be your rights. In this case, your right to pursue your usual everyday activities versus the rights of other citizens to not contract a potentially deadly virus that you may be asymptotically carrying around unaware.

The idea of quarantine is nothing new; it has been standard public policy for many years. The American colonies first instituted quarantine laws in 1663 to curb an outbreak of smallpox in New York City. This is nothing new, and your statements of outrage about how unprecedented this is show your ignorance of your own country’s laws, history, and values.

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Have we really become a nation of sheep?
“A government of laws, not men.” - John Adams, in drafting the Massachusetts state constitution in 1780
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train View Post
I think the thread actually belongs in the often overlooked Hyperbole & Manufactured Outrage forum. It’s a bit difficult to see on the Main page, but if you go down to MPSIMS and the rotate the page through the imaginary axis you find it in between Bill Mahar Rhetorical Idiocies and Sean Hannity Conspiranoia.

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Old 03-20-2020, 09:10 PM
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While they are at it, why don't they declare fire arms a "health risk" for you and the people around you and send the CA National Guard to homes to collect everyone's weapons?
Wonderful idea!
I'm all in favor of this. Hope they will do the same in my state.

(But do Florida first -- way too many nuts there, and many have guns.)
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:09 AM
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Hyperbole & Manufactured Outrage though it may be, it's a real thing among the wing-nuts.



Governors and Mayors are declaring emergencies, which give them all kinds of emergency powers under existing emergency powers laws and ordinances. These laws contain generic laundry-lists of powers that the executive (governor or mayor) may exercise -- not that all of the powers will necessarily be invoked.



These powers typically include things like banning sales of firearms. Also power to ban meetings and assemblies, power to take possession and even title (!) to private property, and draconian stuffs like that.



So when someone issues an executive order to deal with Covid-19, the right-wingnuts immediately scream THEY'RE COMING FOR OUR GUNS!!!!!!!!!



Example (Right-wing-nut web site trigger warning): Exec Order Related To COVID-19 Gives Champaign, IL Mayor Power To Ban Sale Of Firearms, Ammunition and Alcohol, Gives City Ability To Take Possession Of Private Property.
Oy. The comments section was both hilarious and frightening.
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:36 AM
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Yeah, we can still take walks. The weed stores are open. (Whoo-hoo!) Drive-thrus for food, no dine-in. 7-11s are still running, same with Liquor stores. I've found liquor stores to be really good for certain food! Had a good selection of ice cream, cheese, tuna, rice. The groceries are sold out of those.

I went to Arby's in Reseda tonight, just got back. (HAD to have a RB and cheddar). It was so surreal. 9:00 pm in Los Angeles County, and I'm doing 72 all 12 miles to and home. No traffic anywhere on a weekend is a first out here. Of course, my Friday night was usually better than a 12 mile trip to Arby's as the highlight.

The new restrictions go until April 7th, I believe, and I'm pretty sure it will be extended beyond that. At least until May.

Last edited by Locrian; 03-21-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train View Post
I think the thread actually belongs in the often overlooked Hyperbole & Manufactured Outrage forum. It’s a bit difficult to see on the Main page, but if you go down to MPSIMS and the rotate the page through the imaginary axis you find it in between Bill Mahar Rhetorical Idiocies and Sean Hannity Conspiranoia.
You sarcastic fiends make it sound as though OP opposes any Governor issuing a "Stay Home" order for a state.

I think this is quite unfair. I doubt that OP would object if the "Stay Home" order were issued by a Republican Governor.
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:58 AM
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You sarcastic fiends make it sound as though OP opposes any Governor issuing a "Stay Home" order for a state.

I think this is quite unfair. I doubt that OP would object if the "Stay Home" order were issued by a Republican Governor.
Do we have a list of Republican Governors who are doing this yet?
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:08 AM
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You sarcastic fiends make it sound as though OP opposes any Governor issuing a "Stay Home" order for a state.

I think this is quite unfair. I doubt that OP would object if the "Stay Home" order were issued by a Republican Governor.
About that:

https://digbysblog.net/2020/03/the-p...f-coronavirus/
Quote:
Republican-leaning states to this point are displaying notably less urgency about the outbreak. Of the states that have taken the fewest actions to restrict public gatherings or limit restaurant service on a statewide basis—such as Texas, Missouri, and Alabama—almost all have Republican governors, according to research by Topher Spiro, the vice president for health policy at the liberal Center for American Progress, where he directs a program that examines state health initiatives.

That’s left Democratic-run cities in those red states—such as Houston, Tucson, Nashville, and Atlanta—to try to impose their own rules on public gatherings. Yet all those local limits face an obvious problem: People from elsewhere in the state can still travel to their jurisdictions. “We can’t seal our borders,” acknowledged Lina Hidalgo, the chief administrator in Harris County, Texas, which includes Houston, when she announced county-wide closures on Monday.
As one of the experts who removed Smallpox from the face of the earth said:

https://www.wired.com/story/coronavi...=pocket-newtab
Quote:
Wired: We are being asked to do things, certainly, that never happened in my lifetime—stay in the house, stay 6 feet away from other people, don’t go to group gatherings. Are we getting the right advice?

Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant: Well, as you reach me, I'm pretending that I'm in a meditation retreat, but I'm actually being semi-quarantined in Marin County. Yes, this is very good advice. But did we get good advice from the president of the United States for the first 12 weeks? No. All we got were lies. Saying it’s fake, by saying this is a Democratic hoax. There are still people today who believe that, to their detriment. Speaking as a public health person, this is the most irresponsible act of an elected official that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. But what you're hearing now [to self-isolate, close schools, cancel events] is right. Is it going to protect us completely? Is it going to make the world safe forever? No. It's a great thing because we want to spread out the disease over time.
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Old 03-21-2020, 03:20 AM
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Yeah, but Topher Spiro? Do we really want to pay attention to a guy whose name can be rearranged into "Hipper Torso?"
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Old 03-21-2020, 03:28 AM
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Yeah, but Topher Spiro? Do we really want to pay attention to a guy whose name can be rearranged into "Hipper Torso?"
I prefer Hippo Torres. He sounds like a luchador that way.
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:47 AM
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Joe Biden turns into I need job, and be joined
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:20 AM
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It was so surreal. 9:00 pm in Los Angeles County, and I'm doing 72 all 12 miles to and home. No traffic anywhere on a weekend is a first out here. Of course, my Friday night was usually better than a 12 mile trip to Arby's as the highlight.
Be careful, cops are getting bored. Normally, I go as fast as the traffic around me to avoid tickets, but that doesn’t work when there’s little traffic.
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:55 AM
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Form the news messages the Gov's order contains the fact that he is asking everyone to stay at home.

Read an article on Facebook by what I assume is a lawyer. In order for the Gov do order everyone sst stay home he would have to declare Marshall law and this emergency does not fit the requirements to do so. Also there is no doubt that county health officials can quarantine anyone sick or exposed to the virous. But it is a different matter with those not sick or exposed.

If I knew how to link to the FAcebook post I would. But as for me I am not going out unless necessary. You see I fit the compromised health group. I am 72.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:40 PM
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In order for the Gov do order everyone sst stay home he would have to declare Marshall law and this emergency does not fit the requirements to do so.
You been reading a little too much Marco Rubio lately?
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:04 PM
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Oy. The comments section was both hilarious and frightening.
I agree.

No matter what a Democrat says, the ammosexuals are going to accuse them of wanting to confiscate their guns - and those are precisely the people who probably shouldn't have firearms in the first place.
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:52 PM
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Be careful, cops are getting bored. Normally, I go as fast as the traffic around me to avoid tickets, but that doesn’t work when there’s little traffic.
I've seen in the local paper that the cops in my area are really only going after extreme cases of traffic violations, and crime in general. There was a neighborhood that every car broken into last night. Cops didn't do anything. Not even take reports.

In my job, I have to talk with cops fairly frequently. One officer told me that they're not arresting people except in extreme cases, because they don't want to lump people together in cells where infection might spread. CPS is barely doing home investigations unless there's violence involved.
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:04 AM
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I broke through snowbanks today and drove down to the county seat. The county has not apparently shut down. Traffic seemed about normal. Essential operations were operating. Non-essential businesses were dark. Shoppers mostly kept their distance. Some supplies were picked-over but only a few sections were empty. Life proceeds.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:12 PM
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I think this is quite unfair. I doubt that OP would object if the "Stay Home" order were issued by a Republican Governor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
Do we have a list of Republican Governors who are doing this yet?
A bit of follow-up: Colbert I. King writes in Washington Post, March 20: Yes, it's bi-partisan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert I. King
When looking for a leader in these public health and economic crises, skip over Donald Trump.

Look instead to a bipartisan group of public executives such as Govs. Larry Hogan (R) of Maryland, Gavin Newsom (D) of California (D), Gretchen Whitmer (D) of Michigan, Andrew Cuomo (D) of New York, Mike DeWine (R) of Ohio, Jay Inslee (D) of Washington state, and the District’s own Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D), who has been both aggressive in planning and steady as a rock in execution.

. . .

Let’s just get through this with as little of Trump as possible.
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Old 03-22-2020, 02:23 PM
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The governor in CA has issued some kind of "Stay Home" order.

Does he really have the authority to suspend the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution? And for how long, a week, a month, a year or until the State decides its "ALL CLEAR".

Supposedly, Californians are not allowed to go out of their homes unless they have what the State considers to be "essential" business outside of their homes, grocery shopping, doctor appointments, etc.

So I will be arrested for driving down to the beach to watch the sunset?

Have we really become a nation of sheep?
FINALLY someone with the courage to argue that the Constitution IS a suicide pact!
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:52 PM
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FINALLY someone with the courage to argue that the Constitution IS a suicide pact!
Certain political voices make suicide attractive. Stream presidential pressers into prison cells and many inmates will cry for merciful release.
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