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Old 02-13-2020, 12:43 PM
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Will Trump self destruct before November, 2020?


It's clear he uses each little corrupt "win" as courage for further abuses. He couldn't control himself after these events. He doesn't seem to have a notion of how it might be seen in US history. So he's not thinking about the long game, and in fact is counting on changing our game and putting his own in there.

He can only be seen as rational as long as his bubble of protection remains intact.

Today we are looking at Barr and other abuses that are red flags.

Very few people grant that he is not a political superman. They are scared of being complacent or something.

But it looks like he has a project which is speculative about bending the US to his will. I happen to think he is mad, and that you can't hide that over 9 months.

Last edited by drad dog; 02-13-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:45 PM
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Possibly, but if he's held on for 80% of his first term thus far without self-destructing yet, there's a decent chance it's not going to happen in the remainder 20% of his first term either.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:47 PM
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Possibly, but if he's held on for 80% of his first term thus far without self-destructing yet, there's a decent chance it's not going to happen in the remainder 20% of his first term either.
This. He very much has a plan and is in it for the long term. Democracy is going to be completely dead if he is reelected, and chances are very good that he will be elected again.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:50 PM
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No. And he will be reelected.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:55 PM
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Possibly, but if he's held on for 80% of his first term thus far without self-destructing yet, there's a decent chance it's not going to happen in the remainder 20% of his first term either.
I can't place the last 3 years in the same slot as 2020.

It would be impossible to even list all of the factors that make it unique from 2016 but the biggest:

Win 2020 or get prosecuted by SDNY.

He is a known quantity.

No pivot arguments hold.

He has been impeached.

He is emboldened to act abusively towards democracy more publically and with more abuse.

He is mentally compromised and getting older and more frayed.

But yes he is superman. I guess we're going to be talking about that.
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:01 PM
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I can't place the last 3 years in the same slot as 2020.

It would be impossible to even list all of the factors that make it unique from 2016 but the biggest:

Win 2020 or get prosecuted by SDNY.

He is a known quantity.

No pivot arguments hold.

He has been impeached.

He is emboldened to act abusively towards democracy more publically and with more abuse.

He is mentally compromised and getting older and more frayed.

But yes he is superman. I guess we're going to be talking about that.
Why wouldn't this just lead to more of the same, except with increasing severity? He's not losing it at all. He has a plan, he's executing it, he'll be elected again, and we're all going to be up a creek by 2024.

That sounds rather dismal, doesn't it?
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:47 PM
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No. And he will be reelected.
I wish Tomeka Hart, the jury foreperson in the Stone trial, would have just kept her mouth shut. She's done more harm than good.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:08 PM
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I wish Tomeka Hart, the jury foreperson in the Stone trial, would have just kept her mouth shut. She's done more harm than good.
Christ what a nightmare. She represents everything about the left that will get the right re-elected. More interested in “standing up” for what is right than in actually achieving it.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:32 PM
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Only way he doesn't run in November is if he's 6 feet under.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:32 PM
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History shows people overlooking any amount of corruption, so long as it's "their guy" who is running. This is true regardless of whether we're talking about the left or the right.

This is, of course, so long as the economy is good.

As long as the economy is good, the political map and how many points are assigned to each color is really 95% of everything. Trump is, certainly, costing himself the vote of the 20% in the middle, who have a conscience. But if he doesn't need that to win, then it doesn't matter.

Realistically, unless you can expect the economy to tank in the next few months, the best thing that anyone could do would be for the blue states to look at their financial interconnections with other states and see if there are any strings that they could pull.

Hot state on state economic sanctions could be a reasonable step, given that it is essentially how Trump likes to conduct business. No one can complain if you take the cue that it's hunting season.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 02-13-2020 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:53 PM
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I wish Tomeka Hart, the jury foreperson in the Stone trial, would have just kept her mouth shut. She's done more harm than good.
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Christ what a nightmare. She represents everything about the left that will get the right re-elected. More interested in “standing up” for what is right than in actually achieving it.
Shut the fuck up and get behind her. Support her. What is your fucking problem? Are you on Trump's side or on the other side?

Do you think the Trumpists really give a shit about whether or not someone is biased? NO. They just don't like it when someone is biased against them. Other than that, they fucking LOVE bias. So fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

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Old 02-13-2020, 03:35 PM
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Shut the fuck up and get behind her. Support her. What is your fucking problem? Are you on Trump's side or on the other side?

Do you think the Trumpists really give a shit about whether or not someone is biased? NO. They just don't like it when someone is biased against them. Other than that, they fucking LOVE bias. So fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
Do you hear what you sound like? I know someone else who said “you’re either with us or against us.” Didn’t like him either. Welcome to fascism’s evil twin.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:38 PM
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Let us know when you find your perfect. Enjoy your march to the salt mines.

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Old 02-13-2020, 03:44 PM
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No. And he will be reelected.
Nah, Dems need only to flip Florida and win one of Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin from last election, or not flip Florida and win those three. Pennsylvania is the only one of those three that are a bit iffy. Trump is toast.

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Old 02-13-2020, 04:05 PM
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He's self destructed pretty much once a week since his campaign began, it doesn't stick.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:13 PM
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Nah, Dems need only to flip Florida and win one of Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin from last election, or not flip Florida and win those three. Pennsylvania is the only one of those three that are a bit iffy. Trump is toast.
When was the last president who did not win a 2nd term with a good economy? Think it was Taft in 1912.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:14 PM
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Nah, Dems need only to flip Florida and win one of Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin from last election, or not flip Florida and win those three. Pennsylvania is the only one of those three that are a bit iffy. Trump is toast.
I really hope you're right, but I really think you're not.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:38 PM
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Shut the fuck up and get behind her. Support her. What is your fucking problem? Are you on Trump's side or on the other side?

Do you think the Trumpists really give a shit about whether or not someone is biased? NO. They just don't like it when someone is biased against them. Other than that, they fucking LOVE bias. So fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
While you may not I do care when someone shows a potential bias in our judicial system. Right or wrong - at best this may call the fairness of the trial in the question, at worst this may lead to a mistrial. Don't care if someone is biased? Sounds to me like you're the other side of Trump. Congratulations.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:24 PM
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He's self destructed pretty much once a week since his campaign began, it doesn't stick.
Exactly. He regularly does something that would constitute self-destruction for anyone else, and it doesn't hurt him a bit. Short of physically losing the ability to speak, tweet and swing a five-iron, what exactly would self-destruction look like?
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:32 PM
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good news is 2 guys could beat trump. Bad news is they are Obama and B. Clinton
  #21  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:14 PM
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Exactly. He regularly does something that would constitute self-destruction for anyone else, and it doesn't hurt him a bit. Short of physically losing the ability to speak, tweet and swing a five-iron, what exactly would self-destruction look like?
I would say it's when his enablers turn. His destruction is not just what he does. It's the way it's recvd in the world.

I think the context of dts behavior is changing, for instance, this week is big. I can't believe that this is a steady state that can just go on forever. That doesn't sound like a real world scenario to me.

Lets' say that dts opponents are using the levers of govt and justice to pursue his removal. In doing this they have gains and setbacks on the way. Most posters here are saying that this makes no difference at all, and never could. (Because history is over?) But that is the way justice works, and has worked in the past. It's a hell of a time to cancel the future.

I'm trying to think of the historical figure who lived in a permanent bubble and died old and happy.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:20 PM
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Exactly. He regularly does something that would constitute self-destruction for anyone else, and it doesn't hurt him a bit. Short of physically losing the ability to speak, tweet and swing a five-iron, what exactly would self-destruction look like?
It would look like people laughing at Donald Trump. It would sound like that too.

Trump wins because no one points out how ridiculous he is. Every time someone stops protesting and lets him get away with something, he wins. And people would rather not argue, rather not fight in public, etc.

Frankly, George Stephanopoulos missed a golden opportunity when Trump lied during an interview and Stephanopoulos called him out. But Trump leaned in towards him and raised his voice a little and asserted himself again and this time Stephanopoulos backed down (although he did smirkingly mug for the camera to show he was backing down).

Bur Stephanopoulos should not have backed down. He should have pressed him on it. It was all being recorded. And it would have exposed how ridiculous Trump is, how far he will go to cover his lies, etc.

But he didn't and here we are.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:24 PM
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While you may not I do care when someone shows a potential bias in our judicial system. Right or wrong - at best this may call the fairness of the trial in the question, at worst this may lead to a mistrial. Don't care if someone is biased? Sounds to me like you're the other side of Trump. Congratulations.
I never said I didn't care when someone shows a potential bias in our judicial system: that was you trying to put words in my mouth.


Your other assertion is just unfounded knee-jerk half-assed angry name-calling. Who's side are you on?
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:27 PM
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The Moderator Speaks


Everyone give it a rest. This thread has generated a bunch of reports in all directions while I've been gone.

Next one steps out of line - in any way and at my discretion - gets a warning and a ban from GD and PE for a week.

I hope that's clear.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:46 PM
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Hopefully......................and literally.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:20 PM
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Everyone give it a rest. This thread has generated a bunch of reports in all directions while I've been gone.

Next one steps out of line - in any way and at my discretion - gets a warning and a ban from GD and PE for a week.

I hope that's clear.
This thread started today. Have you got the right one?
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:17 AM
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I would say it's when his enablers turn. His destruction is not just what he does. It's the way it's recvd in the world.
But what possible Trump behavior would cause his enablers -- in DC, in the media and among the voters -- to turn? He gets worse and worse, and we keep waiting for the breaking point. There isn't one.

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It would look like people laughing at Donald Trump. It would sound like that too.

Trump wins because no one points out how ridiculous he is.
People have been pointing out how ridiculous he is since the day he declared his candidacy. He acts in more and more ridiculous ways, and says more and more ridiculous things, and we keep waiting for the breaking point. There isn't one.

Trump isn't going to beat himself. Our only real hope is that enough voters in enough key states understand what's at stake in November.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:48 AM
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Everything about Trump is baked in the cake, and it's been that way for a very long time. Only the true undecided would determine whether he "self destructs" or not.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:05 AM
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I've never thought about it before -- because who really wants to think about it? -- but do narcissists melt down? Trump takes pleasure in destroying his critics and enemies and raining chaos down upon them; the messier and dirtier the crime scene he's in the middle of, the better he likes it.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:14 AM
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He already has self-destructed, years ago. The problem is that it doesn't matter, and the debris still occupies the White House.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:48 AM
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This thread started today. Have you got the right one?
This. Granted, I just arrived from the Pit, but I haven't noticed anything reportable
  #32  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:55 AM
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People have been pointing out how ridiculous he is since the day he declared his candidacy. He acts in more and more ridiculous ways, and says more and more ridiculous things, and we keep waiting for the breaking point. There isn't one.
People have NOT been pointing out how ridiculous he is to his face. If Hillary Clinton had stopped in the middle of that debate and said "Donald, could you please not loom over me like you're trying to see down my blouse" she would have won the election. But she didn't. She didn't confront him and imply he was a lecher. She just let him do his thing.

If George Stephanopoulos had pressed Trump in the interview I mentioned, laughing at his transparent and persistent attempts to assert a lie, things in this country would be different today. But he didn't. He didn't confront the POTUS on a blatant lie; h e just kind of let it go. He just let Trump do his thing.

When Trump crashed that kid's charity event years back, they should have thrown him out and called the cops and made a stink. But they didn't. They just let Trump do his thing.

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Trump isn't going to beat himself. Our only real hope is that enough voters in enough key states understand what's at stake in November.
What part of living in the US for the past 20 years has you optimistic about Americans' abilities to collect and process pertinent information such that they will reach the same conclusion that you deem "logical and correct"? I'm not at all sure I share your outlook there.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-14-2020 at 11:00 AM.
  #33  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:57 AM
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I've never thought about it before -- because who really wants to think about it? -- but do narcissists melt down? Trump takes pleasure in destroying his critics and enemies and raining chaos down upon them; the messier and dirtier the crime scene he's in the middle of, the better he likes it.
Inclined to agree. Trump has no capacity for shame. There is nothing he will stop at. The most humiliating thing for him is to NOT respond to the merest slight.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:00 AM
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What part of living in the US for the past 20 years has you optimistic about Americans' abilities to collect and process pertinent information such that they will reach the same conclusion that you deem "logical and correct"?
I never said I was optimistic about voters doing the right thing in November; I said it was our only hope. I'm anything but optimistic.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:50 AM
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When was the last president who did not win a 2nd term with a good economy? Think it was Taft in 1912.
I think economy influencing elections is so 20th century. We're in our tribes now, and the only thing that matters is how much of the blue tribe shows up and votes. It all comes down to MI, OH, PA, FL, and WI. Whoever gets 3 of 5 wins.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:33 PM
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History shows people overlooking any amount of corruption, so long as it's "their guy" who is running. This is true regardless of whether we're talking about the left or the right.
No. You need to look at the Richard Nixon impeachment.
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On August 5, 1974, Nixon released a transcript of one of the additional conversations to the public, known as the "smoking gun" tape, which made clear his complicity in the Watergate cover-up. Reaction to this disclosure was swift—he lost the support of his most loyal defenders in Congress with respect to the obstruction of justice article of the charges. Republican congressional leaders met with and told Nixon that both his impeachment and his conviction were inevitable. Thereupon, Nixon gave up the struggle to remain in office, resigning the presidency on August 9, 1974, before the full House could vote on the articles of impeachment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeac..._Richard_Nixon
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:59 PM
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Although it would entail stooping to Trump's level, I wish Bloomberg would attack Trump on his alleged financial/business acumen. Point out the he (Bloomberg) could buy and sell the entire Trump organization without a thought. That he earned his money rather than having been given it through shady practices. That Trump was pretty much a joke in the NY real estate community. It wouldn't do much for his chances in the election but it might make Trump become even more unhinged and reveal his true self to a greater extent.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:06 PM
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Everyone should read Tim Snyder.

Fascism is an attempt to end history. It's infected many posts here. "It's all over. There is no future or history"

i think everyone should take a step back. Anyone remember before social media?
  #39  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:08 PM
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we keep waiting for the breaking point. There isn't one.


Everyone who ever saw a bubble said these exact words. Yet there are no historical cites of bubbles which did not burst.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:16 PM
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Although it would entail stooping to Trump's level, I wish Bloomberg would attack Trump on his alleged financial/business acumen. Point out the he (Bloomberg) could buy and sell the entire Trump organization without a thought. That he earned his money rather than having been given it through shady practices. That Trump was pretty much a joke in the NY real estate community. It wouldn't do much for his chances in the election but it might make Trump become even more unhinged and reveal his true self to a greater extent.
Agreed. Stoop away, Dem candidate (whoever you are). Stoop, stoop, and more stoop!
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:19 PM
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Although it would entail stooping to Trump's level, I wish Bloomberg would attack Trump on his alleged financial/business acumen. Point out the he (Bloomberg) could buy and sell the entire Trump organization without a thought. That he earned his money rather than having been given it through shady practices. That Trump was pretty much a joke in the NY real estate community. It wouldn't do much for his chances in the election but it might make Trump become even more unhinged and reveal his true self to a greater extent.
I’m sure he will if he ever gets to that point.

He’s not running against Trump right now.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:32 PM
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I’m sure he will if he ever gets to that point.



He’s not running against Trump right now.


Well, he sorta is.

I believe he has declared that he will support the dem nominee equally strongly, whether he he is the nominee or not.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:34 PM
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Define melt down? Because under my definition he basically melts down constantly. It's just that his supporters are either single issue voters on tax cuts and/or are Fox News zombies.

He'd probably have to scream the N-word and for Obama to be lynched or all non-whites to killed in camps or a video of him fucking Ivanka to be released to actually tank his support.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:45 PM
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Well, he sorta is.

I believe he has declared that he will support the dem nominee equally strongly, whether he he is the nominee or not.
But he wants to be president. He isn’t spending millions of his own money to help other candidates. He’s running against the Democrats right now.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:47 PM
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But he wants to be president. He isn’t spending millions of his own money to help other candidates. He’s running against the Democrats right now.
What I mean by that is he’s trying to get the support of those who are already against Trump. Negative ads against Trump will be a waste of money at this point in the campaign. Those come later after the nomination.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:53 PM
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Everyone who ever saw a bubble said these exact words. Yet there are no historical cites of bubbles which did not burst.
I worked in the financial markets for almost two decades and I never heard anyone say "there is no breaking point" about a bubble. Just the opposite -- guessing when it would burst was everyone's favorite topic.

But I'm not sure you can compare Trump's popularity/influence/ability-to-maintain-status to a financial bubble. If his base won't "sell" faced with evidence that he's a corrupt, pussy-grabbing, incompetent and almost certainly treasonous sleazebag, what's it gonna take?

I'm not saying he can't be defeated, just that he's not going to do it for us.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:56 PM
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Define melt down? Because under my definition he basically melts down constantly. It's just that his supporters are either single issue voters on tax cuts and/or are Fox News zombies.

He'd probably have to scream the N-word and for Obama to be lynched or all non-whites to killed in camps or a video of him fucking Ivanka to be released to actually tank his support.
If he believed that fucking Ivanka would help him get re-elected, it's within his rights as President because it's for the good of the country. Right, Mr. Dershowitz?
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
I worked in the financial markets for almost two decades and I never heard anyone say "there is no breaking point" about a bubble. Just the opposite -- guessing when it would burst was everyone's favorite topic.

But I'm not sure you can compare Trump's popularity/influence/ability-to-maintain-status to a financial bubble. If his base won't "sell" faced with evidence that he's a corrupt, pussy-grabbing, incompetent and almost certainly treasonous sleazebag, what's it gonna take?

I'm not saying he can't be defeated, just that he's not going to do it for us.
IANA financial analyst. But bubbles are well defined. Of course smarties in the industry have some perspective. So I suppose they all cleaned up and own the world now? They are playing too. And they get caught like everyone else.

I'm not seeing finance and politics as such different bubbles.

It's very strange to say that since you never heard anyone say a bubble was "not going to end", (hard to feature that) then this cannot be a bubble because you are saying it will never end.

Someone saying something will never end is the very definition of a bubble in any human endeavor.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
He'd probably have to scream the N-word and for Obama to be lynched or all non-whites to killed in camps or a video of him fucking Ivanka to be released to actually tank his support.
How would any of those things hurt him with his base?
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
IANA financial analyst. But bubbles are well defined. Of course smarties in the industry have some perspective. So I suppose they all cleaned up and own the world now? They are playing too. And they get caught like everyone else.

I'm not seeing finance and politics as such different bubbles.

It's very strange to say that since you never heard anyone say a bubble was "not going to end", (hard to feature that) then this cannot be a bubble because you are saying it will never end.

Someone saying something will never end is the very definition of a bubble in any human endeavor.
Actually, some people (not me, haha) made billions when the markets crashed in 2008. Ever see The Big Short?

But you're right, here I am saying all bubbles break, but Trump's won't. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am -- believe me, I'd love to see it explode. I'd love to see him hoisted onto a metaphorical meathook by the people he's defrauded the last five years.

Still, I wouldn't bet on it happening in the next 9 months. We sure can't count on it.
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