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  #51  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:52 PM
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He is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. You dispute that?
You mean the rumors of Bill Barr being a 250-pound sock puppet are true?
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:54 PM
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I find it fascinating that Trump can be viewed as both an idiotic buffoon and an evil genius at the same time by the same people. I think most of his decisions don’t go below the level of his surface thoughts.

“Blago was a good guy on The Apprentice. His wife tells me he was screwed by Comey. Commute his sentence.”

“Bernie was a good guy when I knew him in New York. Pardon him.”

“Mikey was a good guy when I knew him in New York. He’s bald now and had cancer. Pardon.”

“Some 49er players are saying Eddie is a good guy. Pardon.”

It helps to read that as Alec Baldwin as Trump.
Trump isn't an evil genius, he is an amoral simpleton. If you want him to do something all you have to do is flatter him or bribe him. Or find a way to make it look like him doing what you want is him sticking it to his enemies (Obama, etc)

Blago flattered him and presented his case as something the democrats and comey would inflict on their political enemies. He played Trump like the buffoon he is and now he is out of prison.
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
...
As for Blagojevich, what, no full pardon for him? I guess Trump just couldn't find it in himself to give a full pardon to a Democrat.

As I just wrote in the Trump Clusterfuck thread:



Okay, I can also appreciate Loach suggestion that it's a shot at Comey, even if that happens to be factually false (which is irrelevant in Trumpworld).

(Wow, what an active thread! In the time I typed up the above, 8 new posts were added!)

Blago was on Trump's tv show, and The Blagos pretty much begged Trump. That makes him feel important and Kingly. Probably not the sole reason, but add them in as parts.
  #54  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:40 PM
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Only the best people, the rich people, and those lucky few liked by Kim Kardashian.
Or Rudy Giuliani.

Bernard Kerik and Rudy are really, really tight buddies, going back years. Rudy appointed him corrections commissioner, and then police commissioner, in New York. Then, after Kerik left the police department and went into the private sector, Rudy recommended him for Secretary of Homeland Security (during the Bush administration).

How Rudy and Bernie ever thought he would get past the background check is beyond me.

He didn't, of course, and not long after the indictments started coming down.
  #55  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:45 PM
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He is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. You dispute that?
Trump is also the boss of Pompeo. Does that make Trump the Chief Diplomat?

Trump is also the boss of Wilbur Ross. Does that make Trump the Chief of Commerce?

Trump is also the boss of Mark Esper. Does that make Trump the Chief of Defense?

Trump is also the boss of Ben Carson. Does that make Trump the Chief of Housing and Urban Development?

Trump is also the boss of David Bernhardt. Does that make Trump the Chief of the Interior Department?

Etc.

That's even more things he's in charge of than Jared Kushner!

Per Yahoo News today:
Trump declares himself 'chief law enforcement officer' as he issues numerous pardons

Quote:
President Trump on Tuesday exercised his pardon power, granting clemency to or commuting the sentences of nearly a dozen people convicted of crimes, including former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich and junk bond pioneer Michael Milken.

Trump also referred to himself as the nation's “chief law enforcement officer,” a title typically reserved for the attorney general. [ Emphasis added. ]

. . .

The president reiterated his claim that he has the right to intervene in the Stone case.

“I’m actually, I guess, the chief law enforcement officer of the country,” Trump said. “I could be involved if I wanted to.”
UltrtaVires, you surely must have known better than that.
  #56  
Old 02-19-2020, 05:41 AM
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Trump is also the boss of Pompeo. Does that make Trump the Chief Diplomat?

Trump is also the boss of Wilbur Ross. Does that make Trump the Chief of Commerce?

Trump is also the boss of Mark Esper. Does that make Trump the Chief of Defense?

Trump is also the boss of Ben Carson. Does that make Trump the Chief of Housing and Urban Development?

Trump is also the boss of David Bernhardt. Does that make Trump the Chief of the Interior Department?

Etc.

That's even more things he's in charge of than Jared Kushner!

Per Yahoo News today:
Trump declares himself 'chief law enforcement officer' as he issues numerous pardons



UltrtaVires, you surely must have known better than that.
If all of those were real titles and not just made up to look like stupid joke titles, then yeah, Trump is the Chief of the Interior Department.

He is the head of the entire executive branch. All executive power is constitutionally vested in the President. He has the duty to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. Sounds like he is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer. If the system has seen fit to hire a subordinate to largely carry out the task, it still doesn't deprive a president of his power over that subordinate.

Maybe the founders got it wrong and one person shouldn't have all that power. But until the Constitution is amended, the president does.
  #57  
Old 02-19-2020, 06:06 AM
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NSA leaker, Reality Winner is also seeking a pardon or commutation of course she did call Trump a "soulless ginger orangutan" so I guess she is hoping nobody tells him that.
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  #58  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:22 AM
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Trump also pardoned Paul Pogue. In what is a huge coincidence and not at all a bribe, Paul Pogue's family donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Trump's campaign.
  #59  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
If all of those were real titles and not just made up to look like stupid joke titles, then yeah, Trump is the Chief of the Interior Department.



.


Is “Chief Law Enforcement Officer” a real title? Seems more like a description to me- and according to this https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the...cutive-branch/ , the person fitting that description is the AG.( with no caps in the “title”


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  #60  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:01 AM
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No, "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" is not an official title.

Yes, that should be the attorney general.

Trump is basically declaring himself the attorney general of the US as well as President and whatever else he's declared himself to be this week.
  #61  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:54 AM
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If all of those were real titles and not just made up to look like stupid joke titles, then yeah, Trump is the Chief of the Interior Department.

He is the head of the entire executive branch. All executive power is constitutionally vested in the President.
Such "logic" would make him Chief White House Butler of the United States.
And Chief White House Maid of the United States.
And Chief White House Groundskeeper of the United States.
  #62  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:06 AM
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Trump is basically declaring himself the attorney general of the US as well as President and whatever else he's declared himself to be this week.
The General, The President, The King of the Sea!

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 02-19-2020 at 09:07 AM.
  #63  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:12 AM
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No, "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" is not an official title.

Yes, that should be the attorney general.

Trump is basically declaring himself the attorney general of the US as well as President and whatever else he's declared himself to be this week.
To be fair, Trump probably thinks he knows more about law enforcement than anybody.

Just ask him. (And, how long until Trump actually says this aloud?)
  #64  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:21 AM
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Such "logic" would make him Chief White House Butler of the United States.
And Chief White House Maid of the United States.
And Chief White House Groundskeeper of the United States.
I, for one, support referring to Trump as the Chief White House Maid of the United States.

This whole thing is so stupid. Only in Trump-land could Trump say something so clearly wrong and dumb, and have his supporters be like "Whatever you say Dear Leader."
  #65  
Old 02-19-2020, 09:30 AM
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He is the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. You dispute that?
UltraVires, in several threads you've posited that Trump, as President, is in charge of everything. I don't see anyone in this thread disputing that he had the Consitutional authority to pardon/commute persons convicted of federal crimes. Now, would you care to discuss whether his decision to do so without consulting the department head who's charged with that specific task is the right thing to do?
  #66  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:15 AM
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Blago was on Trump's tv show, and The Blagos pretty much begged Trump. That makes him feel important and Kingly. Probably not the sole reason, but add them in as parts.
It never hurts to have a corrupt politician in your pocket.
  #67  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:51 AM
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Watch: Blago will become a Fox News commentator foaming at the mouth about the Democrats and TDS, and GOP supporters will completely forget that he was a Democrat convicted on completely unassailable corruption charges.
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  #68  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:04 AM
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I, for one, support referring to Trump as the Chief White House Maid of the United States.

This whole thing is so stupid. Only in Trump-land could Trump say something so clearly wrong and dumb, and have his supporters be like "Whatever you say Dear Leader."
Little known facts about Trump:

- He invented the hamburger, calling it "double bread with meat", before settling on it's correct name, "Hamberder", which it will now be called under federal law.

- Trump never needs to use a toilet because his body is so well calibrated he does not need to urinate or defecate.

- Trump's birth atop a sacred mountain saw a new star created and winter turn to spring.

- Trump is beloved around the world and every single country celebrates his birthday.

- Trump is the best golfer in the world. In his last game, he dominated the 7,700-yard Course. He shot an unimaginable 38-under par, recording no worse than a birdie on each hole. His round included 11 holes-in-one, and the feat was verified by 17 bodyguards who were present.

- During an intensely creative two year span, Trump composed six operas which are considered to be the world's best.
  #69  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:45 AM
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Watch: Blago will become a Fox News commentator foaming at the mouth about the Democrats and TDS, and GOP supporters will completely forget that he was a Democrat convicted on completely unassailable corruption charges.
Actually, in Blago's current news conferences he's going on and on about inequity in the US criminal justice system and actually has a few good points.

I would love to see Blago actually devote his life to working towards a genuinely better and more just legal system in the country. That would go a long way towards redeeming some of his past skeeviness.

Not going to hold my breath, though - I'll believe it when I see it.
  #70  
Old 02-19-2020, 11:56 AM
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Actually, in Blago's current news conferences he's going on and on about inequity in the US criminal justice system and actually has a few good points.

I would love to see Blago actually devote his life to working towards a genuinely better and more just legal system in the country. That would go a long way towards redeeming some of his past skeeviness.

Not going to hold my breath, though - I'll believe it when I see it.
That's kind of refreshing. I haven't seen anything -- what kinds of inequity is he talking about?
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  #71  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:07 PM
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Wildly different sentences handed out for the same crime to different people.

Coercion of innocent people to confessing to crimes to avoid extremely long prison sentences.

How wealth makes makes a difference in what sort of justice you get in the US.

How the US locks up such a disproportionately large percentage of its population, what's up with that?

Some other stuff, but I wasn't listening very intently. You can probably get a better and more thorough summation on line somewhere if you're interested in looking for it.

He also continues to maintain his conviction was purely politics and he did nothing wrong. I'm not convinced of that, personally.

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  #72  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:54 PM
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Jeffrey Epstein must be regretting killing himself about now.
Dang it, don't make me laugh when I'm mad.
  #73  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:44 PM
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Blago spent eight years in a small concrete room. Is that not enough?

Trump knew him from The Apprentice, so what, he has nothing to offer Trump’s re-election, he is and was a solid Chicago Democrat. The sentence was excessive. You go sit in a small room for eight years and get back to me.

Trump is not allowed to have the least little bit of compassion, because, you know, he’s an evil genius and all. What is the evil plan behind all this? Maybe it is just what it looks like, a pardon for an excessive sentence.
  #74  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:45 PM
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Good one!
Oh wait...you’re serious?
  #75  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:52 PM
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Blago spent eight years in a small concrete room. Is that not enough?
I think there is an argument to be made that Blago's sentence was disproportionate compared to those handed out to other people guilty of the same crimes. Which, indeed, was one of the points he made today in his press conference.

I will note, however, that what Blagoevich was convicted of was not too dissimilar to what Trump was impeached for - I do believe Trump is pardoning/commuting the sentences of people guilty of the same things as a way of minimizing what he himself (Trump) did as part of his argument that it was not a crime. And, also, Blagoevich also argued it was not a crime.

I have a sneaking suspicion, though, that if Blago had been a Republican he would have received a full pardon and not just a commutation. But, you see, he's a Democrat and thus must be punished.
  #76  
Old 02-19-2020, 01:53 PM
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Blago spent eight years in a small concrete room. Is that not enough?
Charles Manson spent 46 years in prison. Why wasn't he pardoned after serving eight?
  #77  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:07 PM
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he has nothing to offer Trump’s re-election
Sure he does. He will be the newest Fox news contributor. He will be a "Democrat" talking about how extreme and socialist all of the other Democrats are these days. You think Trump let him out for no gain? Please. And those on your side will eat this all up like it was your first meal in 2 weeks.
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  #78  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:18 PM
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What's to prevent Trump from obtaining a complete list of all prison inmates, and pardoning them all, just to show who's boss?
  #79  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:30 PM
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Trump is not allowed to have the least little bit of compassion, because, you know, he’s an evil genius and all. What is the evil plan behind all this? Maybe it is just what it looks like, a pardon for an excessive sentence.
Compassion my ass. Blago wrote an editorial condemning the impeachment that could have been taken straight from the GOP playbook, and his wife has been portraying Blago as a witchhunt victim for years.

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I will note, however, that what Blagoevich was convicted of was not too dissimilar to what Trump was impeached for - I do believe Trump is pardoning/commuting the sentences of people guilty of the same things as a way of minimizing what he himself (Trump) did as part of his argument that it was not a crime. And, also, Blagoevich also argued it was not a crime.
Exactly. He sees someone just like himself who royally kissed his ass. I suppose that counts as compassion in his book, but it's consistent with a pattern of normalizing corruption.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:32 PM
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What's to prevent Trump from obtaining a complete list of all prison inmates, and pardoning them all, just to show who's boss?
Not the Legislative Branch, apparently.

** The actual limit is: he can only screw with federal convictions. State Level junk remains beyond his grasp. But I suppose he could pull some governor's strings.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:47 PM
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And, really, most convicts in prison are there on state charges, or on a combination of state and federal charges. It's fairly uncommon for something to be a federal crime but not any state crime.
  #82  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:55 PM
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The General, The President, The King of the Sea!
I remembered it as "King of the Scene"', but your version recalls Emperor Caligula declaring war upon Neptune. The real goal of Trump's Space Force?
  #83  
Old 02-19-2020, 04:07 PM
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Trump also pardoned Paul Pogue. In what is a huge coincidence and not at all a bribe, Paul Pogue's family donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Trump's campaign.
Well that’s just a time honored tradition in politics but presidents usually have the good taste to make those kind of pardons as they are walking out the door.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:10 PM
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Oh, irony:
"... by the time [Blagojevich] was removed from office in early 2009, the Illinois Prisoner Review Board estimated the number of petitions piled up on his desk at more than 3,000 — by far the largest such backlog in the nation."
https://www.chicagotribune.com/colum...=floating-rail
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  #85  
Old 02-19-2020, 04:30 PM
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Blago spent eight years in a small concrete room. Is that not enough?
He shook down the CEO of a children's hospital for $25,000 in exchange for higher insurance reimbursements for pediatric specialists.


No, eight years isn't enough. I hope he enjoys Hell.
  #86  
Old 02-19-2020, 04:41 PM
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...
Trump is not allowed to have the least little bit of compassion, because, you know, he’s an evil genius and all. ....
Again, this time with a request for a cite. No one to my knowledge has ever said this about Trump. Evil, sure, that's an easy one. Genius? It is to laugh.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:51 PM
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No, "Chief Law Enforcement Officer" is not an official title.

Yes, that should be the attorney general.

Trump is basically declaring himself the attorney general of the US as well as President and whatever else he's declared himself to be this week.
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That's kind of refreshing. I haven't seen anything -- what kinds of inequity is he talking about?
Is this the news conference where he declared himself a "Trumpocrat"?
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:57 PM
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Also, please cite any prior occasions of Trump demonstrating compassion.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:07 PM
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There was that time he was forced to give the money he stole from his own military fundraiser, back in 2016.

Helluva guy! I can see why I would be proud to support a man like Donald Trump.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:44 PM
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Part of Trump's 'thing' is to have one side (repubs) gloat over the distress felt by the other (dems). Have people be joyful because of pain suffered by others. It really doesn't matter how he inflict pain or the damage done to the society or environment, what matters is his base become accustomed and expect the suffering of others. These pardons are just one of many examples.

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  #91  
Old 02-19-2020, 06:53 PM
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If all of those were real titles and not just made up to look like stupid joke titles, then yeah, Trump is the Chief of the Interior Department.

He is the head of the entire executive branch. All executive power is constitutionally vested in the President. He has the duty to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. Sounds like he is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer. If the system has seen fit to hire a subordinate to largely carry out the task, it still doesn't deprive a president of his power over that subordinate.

Maybe the founders got it wrong and one person shouldn't have all that power. But until the Constitution is amended, the president does.
If Trump is the chief law enforcement officer then why didn't he shut down the Flynn and Mueller investigations himself instead of asking Comey and Sessions to do it and then firing them when they didn't comply?

Last edited by Buck Godot; 02-19-2020 at 06:57 PM.
  #92  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:08 PM
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Part of Trump's 'thing' is to have one side (repubs) gloat over the distress felt by the other (dems). Have people be joyful because of pain suffered by others. It really doesn't matter how he inflict pain or the damage done to the society or environment, what matters is his base become accustomed and expect the suffering of others. These pardons are just one of many examples.
Yep. Provided the right people suffer.

And not's let forget Trumps compassion in returning monies for the quashed dreams of students of his fake University. Though I think that's still in the works.
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  #93  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:37 AM
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Such "logic" would make him Chief White House Butler of the United States.
And Chief White House Maid of the United States.
And Chief White House Groundskeeper of the United States.
Could happen!

Buttigieg was asked what would happen if he is elected and Trump refuses to leave. Mayor Pete answered that Trump could stay and do chores.

Pete Buttigieg: If Donald Trump Won't Leave White House, He Can 'Do Chores'
  #94  
Old 02-20-2020, 07:47 AM
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The General, The President, The King of the Sea!
Three people more than enough for a quartet, anyhow.
  #95  
Old 02-20-2020, 08:11 AM
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Charles Manson spent 46 years in prison. Why wasn't he pardoned after serving eight?
He didn't donate a couple hundred thou to Trump like Pogue did
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:32 AM
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UltraVires, in several threads you've posited that Trump, as President, is in charge of everything. I don't see anyone in this thread disputing that he had the Consitutional authority to pardon/commute persons convicted of federal crimes. Now, would you care to discuss whether his decision to do so without consulting the department head who's charged with that specific task is the right thing to do?
Sure. Why not? You admit that the Constitution gives him this power. Why must he give an underling a veto power over it, especially in such subjective cases like these? What boss cedes power to his underlings? Must a restaurant owner follow his head chef's wishes? Was it not "right" or therefore wrong about the boss taking charge on an issue?
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:53 AM
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Sure. Why not? You admit that the Constitution gives him this power. Why must he give an underling a veto power over it, especially in such subjective cases like these? What boss cedes power to his underlings?
A boss that knows how to delegate?

A boss that listens when a subordinate gives him factual information instead of shooting the messenger?

Listening to and considering what "underlings" have to say is not giving them veto power or ceding decision making, it's a means of gathering information about the world.

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Must a restaurant owner follow his head chef's wishes?
Nope, but a restaurant owner who never listens to what the head chef has to say is probably stupid and not likely to be in charge long-term - you don't run a successful business by completely ignoring and/or canning the experts you hire to get something done.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:43 PM
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Little known facts about Trump:

- He invented the hamburger, calling it "double bread with meat", before settling on it's correct name, "Hamberder", which it will now be called under federal law.

- Trump never needs to use a toilet because his body is so well calibrated he does not need to urinate or defecate.

- Trump's birth atop a sacred mountain saw a new star created and winter turn to spring.

- Trump is beloved around the world and every single country celebrates his birthday.

- Trump is the best golfer in the world. In his last game, he dominated the 7,700-yard Course. He shot an unimaginable 38-under par, recording no worse than a birdie on each hole. His round included 11 holes-in-one, and the feat was verified by 17 bodyguards who were present.

- During an intensely creative two year span, Trump composed six operas which are considered to be the world's best.
You forgot to mention that he also has a 12.5 inch wiener.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:37 PM
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To be fair, Trump probably thinks he knows more about law enforcement than anybody.

Just ask him. (And, how long until Trump actually says this aloud?)
Trump and his business were involved in 3,500 legal cases even before he became dictator, the evidence is there.
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Old 02-22-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Sure. Why not? You admit that the Constitution gives him this power. Why must he give an underling a veto power over it, especially in such subjective cases like these? What boss cedes power to his underlings? Must a restaurant owner follow his head chef's wishes? Was it not "right" or therefore wrong about the boss taking charge on an issue?
Are you serious?

Do you not know how organizations work?

Do you think Bill Gates was the best programmer at Microsoft in 1992? Do you think he "took charge" of Excel Development because he had an issue with, say, the interface?

No, he fired someone and put another in his place and said "make it work".

If you're running a business, you hire people smarter than you can ever be to take care of those things, provided they are aligned with your vision and direction. You don't fire the chef and start running the kitchen yourself, nor do you fire the chef and make the matre'd both greet and cook.

But Trump does, and that's why he's horrible at running organizations.
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