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  #51  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
I would pay money to see Pete Buttigieg debate Mike Pence.
I'd love to see Mike offer to shake his hand only to be kissed on the lips by Pete.


A CNN analyst says it's a certainty that Pence is dumped for Nikki Haley I take a lot of stock in that.
  • It allows Donald to troll the Democratic convention and steal some of the spotlight from Biden
  • Pence adds nothing, Nikki Haley has two X chromosomes and might attract some female voters
  • Donald loves to stick the shiv into people no matter how loyal they have been to him. Loyalty is a one-way street with him

I'm not sold on the "gotta be a woman" notion. Whitmer would be tolerable, Harris would be awesome but I'd much prefer her to be AG with a mission to put the current crime syndicate in the White House behind bars. I'd like Corey Booker or Deval Patrick. Julian Castro would go a long way to getting the Latino vote. One thing I think is given: it will not be a white male.
  #52  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:04 AM
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What does Gabbard offer to the ticket?
Nothing whatsoever.

Good god, I certainly hope nobody seriously entertains the idea of putting Tulsi on the ticket.

She's gotten a massive pass from the media on a bunch of stuff, but that benign neglect won't last if she's the VP pick.
  #53  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:07 AM
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Nothing whatsoever.

Good god, I certainly hope nobody seriously entertains the idea of putting Tulsi on the ticket.

She's gotten a massive pass from the media on a bunch of stuff, but that benign neglect won't last if she's the VP pick.
Nothing for Joe Biden. For Sanders she would make the ideal running mate.
  #54  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:09 AM
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I'd love to see Mike offer to shake his hand only to be kissed on the lips by Pete.


A CNN analyst says it's a certainty that Pence is dumped for Nikki Haley I take a lot of stock in that.
  • It allows Donald to troll the Democratic convention and steal some of the spotlight from Biden
  • Pence adds nothing, Nikki Haley has two X chromosomes and might attract some female voters
  • Donald loves to stick the shiv into people no matter how loyal they have been to him. Loyalty is a one-way street with him

I'm not sold on the "gotta be a woman" notion. Whitmer would be tolerable, Harris would be awesome but I'd much prefer her to be AG with a mission to put the current crime syndicate in the White House behind bars. I'd like Corey Booker or Deval Patrick. Julian Castro would go a long way to getting the Latino vote. One thing I think is given: it will not be a white male.
Sure, Donald loves to stick the shiv into people. The problem is that Pence would have no reason to not stick back.
  #55  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:13 AM
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Nothing for Joe Biden. For Sanders she would make the ideal running mate.
Pretty much all the Bernie supporters I know (and I know a bunch) think Tulsi sucks ever since her ridiculous no-votes during impeachment.
  #56  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:15 AM
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On Nikki Haley, why would she agree? She's young, and doesn't need a VP spot to be a credible candidate for president in '24 or '28. I think she'd only agree if she thinks Trump's re-election is a certainty, and even then only if she thinks that the GOP will be in a good position to win again after 8 years of Trump. Neither of those seem like more than 50/50 bets, if that.
  #57  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:23 AM
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On Nikki Haley, why would she agree? She's young, and doesn't need a VP spot to be a credible candidate for president in '24 or '28. I think she'd only agree if she thinks Trump's re-election is a certainty, and even then only if she thinks that the GOP will be in a good position to win again after 8 years of Trump. Neither of those seem like more than 50/50 bets, if that.
I agree. She will be in a much better position in 24 if she is able to put forth her own ideas rather than running on Trump’s legacy and carrying his baggage.
  #58  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:25 AM
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On Nikki Haley, why would she agree? She's young, and doesn't need a VP spot to be a credible candidate for president in '24 or '28. I think she'd only agree if she thinks Trump's re-election is a certainty, and even then only if she thinks that the GOP will be in a good position to win again after 8 years of Trump. Neither of those seem like more than 50/50 bets, if that.
Let's be optimistic and say she runs for veep and loses. But she gets to campaign across the country, get a ton of local pols to get to know her and like her and campaign with her, she gets a night to debate the Dem nominee and be on all the networks. Then going into 2024 she's going to be one of the better known Republican contenders. She'll be able to make television appearances on the talk shows for four years bashing everything Biden does. Take this running mate gig and become an instant 2024 contender, win or lose.
  #59  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:30 AM
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Let's be optimistic and say she runs for veep and loses. But she gets to campaign across the country, get a ton of local pols to get to know her and like her and campaign with her, she gets a night to debate the Dem nominee and be on all the networks. Then going into 2024 she's going to be one of the better known Republican contenders. She'll be able to make television appearances on the talk shows for four years bashing everything Biden does. Take this running mate gig and become an instant 2024 contender, win or lose.
But she'll have the stench of Trump all over her and the Evangelicals will be pissed off that she took Pence's spot.
  #60  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:32 AM
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Pretty much all the Bernie supporters I know (and I know a bunch) think Tulsi sucks ever since her ridiculous no-votes during impeachment.
That was some hard-nosed leadership, right there. Bernie/Tulsi would give Trump the landslide he desperately dreams about. It's hard to think of a worse choice for an elderly candidate.
  #61  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:35 AM
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...the Evangelicals will be pissed off that she took Pence's spot.
If the evangelicals can stomach Trump, I'm sure they can come to terms with Haley. It shouldn't even be that hard. I'm sure she's more of a true believer for the issues that concern them than Trump is. Swapping her for Pence would be basically a wash I would think.
  #62  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:35 AM
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But she'll have the stench of Trump all over her and the Evangelicals will be pissed off that she took Pence's spot.
I'm convinced that there is literally nothing a Republican could do to lose the Evangelical vote. They'd be wetting their pants saying "Ooooh, she was anointed by The Chosen One! All hail Nikki!"
  #63  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:39 AM
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Haley would only take it if she thinks being even further tied to Trump would help her in a general election. I doubt she feels that way, but we'll see. She's already a top-tier Republican candidate for 24 and 28.
  #64  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:17 AM
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Tammy Duckworth retired as a lieutenant colonel. But everybody seems to sweat risking senate seats.
They sweat them where the governor is the opposite party from the senator in question and would likely flip the seat with his/her interim appointment. While MA and VT have GOP governors right now, Illinois has a Dem.
  #65  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:21 AM
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I hope Warren throws her support behind Biden and I hope he offers her the VP position and she accepts.

Seems to me, Warren has already lost once in this round and it would be foolish of her to bet on Sanders and lose again.
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  #66  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:25 AM
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Haley's most famous action as Governor of SC was to remove the Confederate flag from the state buildings after the Charleston shooting. I don't know if some of Trump's would appreciate a former Governor who not only did that but continues to defend that action.

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  #67  
Old 03-06-2020, 09:09 AM
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Duckworth is not well-liked by many career soldiers. She is perceived as a hot-dog who put lives at risk when she was shot down.
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  #68  
Old 03-06-2020, 09:17 AM
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... I'm not sold on the "gotta be a woman" notion. Whitmer would be tolerable, Harris would be awesome but I'd much prefer her to be AG with a mission to put the current crime syndicate in the White House behind bars. I'd like Corey Booker or Deval Patrick. Julian Castro would go a long way to getting the Latino vote. One thing I think is given: it will not be a white male.
Some of the best choices, for being ready to step in, for being positioned to leverage the position to win in 2024 if Biden is one term for age/health, for helping bring some utility, of one sort or the other, to the ticket, happen to be women. No "gotta" but that is where the quality is this cycle.

Harris did not have a winning Democratic campaign strategy for this crowded field season but she is experienced, smart, and capable, and running from VP is a different sort of race for the nom and in the general. She ticks several utility boxes, and Biden seems to like her even after her attempted take down of him. I think it will be her.

I still am rooting for Baldwin though.
  #69  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:20 PM
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I don't know - Biden's thing is that he appeals to black voters. Picking Harris to appeal more to black voters might help if it improves turnout. Same for Booker, I suppose.

I still think Biden needs someone with some semblance of charisma, which would mean Buttigieg. Or, more probably, someone who didn't run for the nomination at all.

Did any of the candidates apart from Sanders win their home states? I don't believe Klobuchar did. Which presents a problem if Biden needs a VP to try to pick up a swing state. Biden will win California and New York as long as he doesn't drool or drop dead during the debates, and possibly even if he does. He needs states like Michigan and Wisconsin that the Dems lost.

Regards,
Shodan

PS - it doesn't matter who Sanders picks for his VP. He isn't going to get the nom, and if he does, nothing is going to help him in the general.
  #70  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:32 PM
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But she'll have the stench of Trump all over her and the Evangelicals will be pissed off that she took Pence's spot.
In this scenario, does Trump have to overtly ditch Pence? Or can he say, in private, hey, I want to go out there and tell everyone that you’ve offered your resignation; and that I said ‘no, Mike, you can stay on as VP’; and that you said ‘I appreciate that, Mister President, but I feel I should step down’. How does that sound?
  #71  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:35 PM
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I don't know - Biden's thing is that he appeals to black voters. Picking Harris to appeal more to black voters might help if it improves turnout. Same for Booker, I suppose.

I still think Biden needs someone with some semblance of charisma, which would mean Buttigieg. Or, more probably, someone who didn't run for the nomination at all.

Did any of the candidates apart from Sanders win their home states? I don't believe Klobuchar did. Which presents a problem if Biden needs a VP to try to pick up a swing state. Biden will win California and New York as long as he doesn't drool or drop dead during the debates, and possibly even if he does. He needs states like Michigan and Wisconsin that the Dems lost.

Regards,
Shodan

PS - it doesn't matter who Sanders picks for his VP. He isn't going to get the nom, and if he does, nothing is going to help him in the general.
Shodan I say this as nicely as I can, but have you been paying any attention to events at all???

Klobuchar dropped before her state voted on Tuesday and endorse Biden. That action is widely credited with giving Biden his surprising win there. She is very popular there. Bernie won Vermont but who cares? Warren lost Massachusetts. Indiana has yet to vote.

In terms of Black voters - Biden won the older 45 Black voter group handily and run about even with Sanders for those under 45. Excited about Biden they are not. Biden running is not in and in itself enough to get the less likely to vote younger Black voter cohort to vote as much as they did for Obama. Signaling inclusivity may help get the less likely younger Black voters off their asses. Indeed it won't impact margin much, and Obama level turnout is still unlikely, but a bit closer is a big deal in key states if it is accomplished.
  #72  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:39 PM
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Did any of the candidates apart from Sanders win their home states? I don't believe Klobuchar did. Which presents a problem if Biden needs a VP to try to pick up a swing state.
She didn't but she also endorsed Biden before the vote, so only the most die-hard supporters would have stilled voted for her. I wonder if there was any polling in MN to show how she was doing?
  #73  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:20 PM
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She didn't but she also endorsed Biden before the vote, so only the most die-hard supporters would have stilled voted for her. I wonder if there was any polling in MN to show how she was doing?
Her campaign manager said she was ahead of Sanders before she dropped out. So maybe her coattails, at least in Minnesota, are longer than I thought.

Regards,
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  #74  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:21 PM
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Tammy Duckworth retired as a lieutenant colonel. But everybody seems to sweat risking senate seats.
The Governor of Illinois is a Democrat, and he will still be in office in January. Unless he pulls a Blagojovich and sells the seat, he'll choose another Democrat.
  #75  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:21 PM
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For Biden the essentials in my opinion would be younger, female and not from the Northeast or California. (Sorry Kamala.)

Beyond that I have don't really know although I would say I don't see Stacy Abrams as having the experience to be next in line to be POTUS to a man in his late 70's.
  #76  
Old 03-06-2020, 01:24 PM
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For Bernie she’s one of the few Democrats who is also not part of the establishment. She would tick off the boxes of being young and a woman while avoiding the box of being mainstream.
But everybody in the Democratic Party hates her. Both sides.
  #77  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:29 PM
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Oh, no, Warren's over 70!
Warren at "over 70" has plenty of energy. And she has PLANS! Biden could smile and make gaffes left and right while she puts together initiatives and Gits Stuff Done.

I didn't think she could beat Trump for the top spot, but I think she'd make a great VP.
  #78  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:12 PM
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I'd love to see Mike offer to shake his hand only to be kissed on the lips by Pete.


A CNN analyst says it's a certainty that Pence is dumped for Nikki Haley I take a lot of stock in that.
  • It allows Donald to troll the Democratic convention and steal some of the spotlight from Biden
  • Pence adds nothing, Nikki Haley has two X chromosomes and might attract some female voters
  • Donald loves to stick the shiv into people no matter how loyal they have been to him. Loyalty is a one-way street with him

I'm not sold on the "gotta be a woman" notion. Whitmer would be tolerable, Harris would be awesome but I'd much prefer her to be AG with a mission to put the current crime syndicate in the White House behind bars. I'd like Corey Booker or Deval Patrick. Julian Castro would go a long way to getting the Latino vote. One thing I think is given: it will not be a white male.
I agree that Trump would like to dump Pence. In fact, I think that's why he named Pence to head the coronavirus group -- if Pence (whose track record on such things appears to be poor) actually succeeds, then Trump gets to crow about what a great job the Trump Administration did; if Pence fails, it gives Trump an excuse to dump him.

If you look at the first two reasons above, there's one person whom I think Trump would find ideal -- Ivanka Trump. And since loyalty is indeed so important to him, I think he feels her loyalty is unquestioned.

(Don't tell me that the powers-that-be in the GOP would never allow this. How many times have they not given Trump something he wanted?)
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Old 03-06-2020, 03:44 PM
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Dumping a vice president is a risky move. It's probably an unnecessary risk from Parscale's perspective.
  #80  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:36 PM
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Warren at "over 70" has plenty of energy. And she has PLANS! Biden could smile and make gaffes left and right while she puts together initiatives and Gits Stuff Done.

I didn't think she could beat Trump for the top spot, but I think she'd make a great VP.
Biden's Veep's main task is to function after he croaks. Pick a candidate for that priority.

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...Duckworth would counterbalance Biden well...
Back in the day, Brits named Duckworth and Costin started a race-car engine company. The firm is Cosworth. Their other option would have been Ducktin, which lacks a certain elegance. A Biden-Duckworth ticket... would their combo be called Bidworth or Ducken?
  #81  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:58 PM
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For me, it’s not a matter of how charismatic or electrifying Klobuchar’s personality is. It’s mostly a matter of how Biden, at best, was well on his way to a 2nd place finish in a contested convention scenario. She changed the whole dynamic of the race by dropping out and endorsing Biden. Had she not done so, we would probably still be looking at a 5 person race right now rather than a duel between Biden and Sanders the rest of the way (yes, I’m ignoring Tulsi). My guess is that Biden promised her the spot, and to go back on that would be a disaster. Or, as they say in south, “you dance with the one who brung you.”
Why do you think Klobuchar "changed the whole dynamic of the race by endorsing Biden"? How are you so certain that that was the main reason Biden surged and not, say, that South Carolina Black voters, desperate to get rid of Trump and thinking Biden was more likely to win than Sanders, went for Biden? Or that there was a backlash to Sanders' nomination?

She likely dropped out of the race and threw support to Biden for a very different reason than you're suggesting:

Klobuchar told her aides that she wanted to get behind Biden quickly — "it all happened in a matter of a couple hours," she said — over fear that Sanders would lose badly to President Donald Trump if he won the Democratic nomination — something she raised in debates earlier this year.
[bolding mine] [source]

A Minnesota newspaper said Klobuchar's decision to drop out and deliver her home state to Biden was for a very specific reason:

Quote:
Klobuchar finished in sixth place, with CNN’s Exit Poll placing her support from black voters in South Carolina at one percent.

This is the moment her campaign says Klobuchar began to reevaluate whether they’d stay in the race. Klobuchar had a serious conversation with her campaign manager, Justin Buoen, about dropping out.
I like Klobuchar. I'm just not convinced things unfolded as you speculate they did.
  #82  
Old 03-07-2020, 08:51 AM
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Let's be optimistic and say she runs for veep and loses. But she gets to campaign across the country, get a ton of local pols to get to know her and like her and campaign with her, she gets a night to debate the Dem nominee and be on all the networks. Then going into 2024 she's going to be one of the better known Republican contenders. She'll be able to make television appearances on the talk shows for four years bashing everything Biden does. Take this running mate gig and become an instant 2024 contender, win or lose.
This is interesting. She might be best served being the VP candidate and Trump losing. She would get national exposure and not have any Trump baggage by the time 2024 rolls around.
  #83  
Old 03-07-2020, 01:36 PM
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Nothing for Joe Biden. For Sanders she would make the ideal running mate.
She would make a terrible running mate.

The pass she's been getting on the cult stuff would be revoked the second she's named as the VP candidate.

This video would be on TV and social media 24 hours a day. America, even liberal America, is not ready for a vice president (and potentially a president, given Bernie's age and health issues) who is a Hare Krishna.

Not to mention the overt homophobia she's exhibited in the past.

No. Gabbard is and would be a nightmare.
  #84  
Old 03-07-2020, 01:37 PM
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Biden's Veep's main task is to function after he croaks. Pick a candidate for that priority.


Back in the day, Brits named Duckworth and Costin started a race-car engine company. The firm is Cosworth. Their other option would have been Ducktin, which lacks a certain elegance. A Biden-Duckworth ticket... would their combo be called Bidworth or Ducken?
I think Duckworth would be great not only on her merits but also to troll Republicans, both for needling Pence about not being alone with her, and making them all look like assholes when a small number of them will inevitably make fun of her name. There's also the possibility of a "I prefer soldiers who didn't get injured" moment.
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Old 03-07-2020, 02:04 PM
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Trump should dump Pence and run with Palin. It's the kind of bat shit crazy thing he loves and the pair would draw huge crowds. The Evangelicals would kiss his feet.

And it might win the election - Ignorance and rhetoric will always prevail over knowledge and logic. (Socrates dialogues)
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Old 03-07-2020, 02:36 PM
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Trump should dump Pence and run with Palin. It's the kind of bat shit crazy thing he loves and the pair would draw huge crowds. The Evangelicals would kiss his feet.

And it might win the election - Ignorance and rhetoric will always prevail over knowledge and logic. (Socrates dialogues)
They can go to Nome and look at Siberia together. Think: Trump Tower Vladivostok.

(I've got to work Trump-Palin into a trampoline pun. Tramp-Paline - is that too subtle?)

One advantage of Palin over Pence: NOBODY will attempt a presidential assassination.

Okay, enough of the lords of disorder. Biden's best Veep candidate is Michelle Obama but she's too smart to suffer the slings and arrows of public office. Did any names leak from the Biden campaign while I wasn't paying attention?
  #87  
Old 03-07-2020, 04:32 PM
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There is no way in hell that Trump will replace Pence. There's nothing to be gained from it, and a lot to lose. Pence was a major strategic asset to him in 2016 winning the Bible Belt and he knows this. Pence is the PERFECT foil to Trump. Trump is all emotive, Pence is an unreadable brick wall. Trump is a secular womanizer from New York, Pence is an uptight Christian from the "heartland." Trump is a totally flamboyant character, Pence is the "gray man" who fades into the background, keeps his eyes and ears open and his mouth shut. It's why their pairing has been so successful, politically speaking, for both of them. And Pence will be well positioned to run in 2024, regardless of who wins this time around.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:53 PM
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Does the US system not produce charismatic female leaders. Like Thatcher or Merkel. Or Indira Gandhi or Benezir Bhutto?
I have tremendous respect for Merkel. Smart. Determined. Principled. Compassionate. In charge.

Charismatic? No, I think not.
  #89  
Old 03-08-2020, 08:13 AM
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Harris endorsed Biden.
  #90  
Old 03-08-2020, 08:38 AM
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Does the US system not produce charismatic female leaders. Like Thatcher or Merkel. Or Indira Gandhi or Benezir Bhutto?
Presidential candidates have typically held a major statewide office (obviously there are some notable exceptions), and women only started being elected to statewide offices in large numbers about 25 years ago. When Thatcher, Gandhi, and Bhutto were winning their first elections, there were next to no women in high-level US politics.

I don't think it helps that our cabinet is not a part of a traditional path to the presidency, or that political parties choose their candidates up and down the ballot in primaries open to the general public.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 03-08-2020 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 03-08-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
Presidential candidates have typically held a major statewide office (obviously there are some notable exceptions), and women only started being elected to statewide offices in large numbers about 25 years ago. When Thatcher, Gandhi, and Bhutto were winning their first elections, there were next to no women in high-level US politics.

I don't think it helps that our cabinet is not a part of a traditional path to the presidency, or that political parties choose their candidates up and down the ballot in primaries open to the general public.
Good point about Cabinet. Note that all four of AK84's examples come from parliamentary systems. You don't need to win state-wide or national elections to work your way up the parliamentary system, just your local constituency. That makes entry to political office easier.
  #92  
Old 03-08-2020, 01:51 PM
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Although it can't be ignored that two of those four came from really well-established political families. Doesn't mean the premiership was handed to them, but Gandhi and Bhutto certainly benefitted from that sort of background.

Thatcher and Merkel both came from much humbler beginnings.

Last edited by Northern Piper; 03-08-2020 at 01:52 PM.
  #93  
Old 03-08-2020, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
For Bernie she’s one of the few Democrats who is also not part of the establishment. She would tick off the boxes of being young and a woman while avoiding the box of being mainstream.
My bolding.

In addition to boxes, she would "tick off" a hell of a lot of voters, too.

If Sanders were to choose Gabbard as his running mate it would convince me that he was trying to get Donald Trump reelected.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:49 PM
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If Sanders were to choose Gabbard as his running mate it would convince me that he was trying to get Donald Trump reelected.
A candidate who has so far gathered 2 delegates seems an inappropriate veep choice unless the goal is aiding Tramp and Putin.

But let's brainstorm. Russian agents deliver hallucinogens to DNC members who reassign superdelegates so the Sanders-Gabbard combo gains the Dem nod. Defeat is assured. America is great again. But wait - hacked vote-counting machines give S&G a startling victory! Alas, Dems are reduced to only 30% of House and Senate seats and most state offices. Do Trampistas arise to overthrow the dirty socialists?
  #95  
Old 03-08-2020, 10:23 PM
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Tangent: Look, I like AOC but she's a first-term Congresswoman. I know she gets both left and right riled up for different reasons, but let her actually get a handle on the job she's basically just started before we elevate her to higher things (whatever they might be).
And she's not old enough to be president, should the worst happen.
  #96  
Old 03-08-2020, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintly Loser View Post
Nothing whatsoever.

Good god, I certainly hope nobody seriously entertains the idea of putting Tulsi on the ticket.

She's gotten a massive pass from the media on a bunch of stuff, but that benign neglect won't last if she's the VP pick.
She's a non-white, non-Christian woman (Hindu), which in itself doesn't qualify her for anything, politically.
  #97  
Old 03-08-2020, 10:27 PM
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However, if they really want a woman VP, here's a name nobody seems to have brought up: Dianne Feinstein. The only problem with her is, she's from California, and usually the VP choice is from a state that the party needs help winning. Then again, that would "disqualify" Kamala Harris as well.
And she's 86 years old. This is not a typo.
  #98  
Old 03-08-2020, 11:04 PM
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She's a non-white, non-Christian woman (Hindu), which in itself doesn't qualify her for anything, politically.
Tulsi is Hindu like the Nation of Islam is Muslim.

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  #99  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:10 AM
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Booker endorsed Biden today. I guess eventually almost all the dropouts will endorse Biden. Probably Warren too. Anyone who ran and wants VP slot or cabinet job will have to endorse Biden.
  #100  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:59 PM
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I'm moving Tammy Baldwin back into my number one spot over Harris. Of the must win hang in the balance states Wisconsin is the one that Biden currently loses to Trump, narrowly. 2 points delivered there by a native daughter VP candidate, could be the election.
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