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Old 03-22-2020, 09:23 AM
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Biden must immediately pledge to never care about the deficit as president


Seriously, with the pandemic crisis raging and the congressional bailout packages running a likely tab of multiple trillions of dollars, it is *inevitable* that the GOP will do an about-face on deficits the very second that Biden (or any other Democrat) becomes president. In order to preemptively ward off another round of 2010-era bullshit deficit hysteria, Biden should come out this second and assert that his administration will never care about the deficit as an issue. Hewing to a deficit-focused, belt-tightening POV will only result in the hamstringing of Biden's agenda and the clobbering of the Democrats in the '22 midterms, given that the public doesn't care about deficits and absolutely hates austerity.

An idea I'd like to see carried out is the reverse of Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge, whereby candidates and representatives would sign onto a document that pledges their fealty to ignoring deficits *as a principle.*
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:32 AM
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:37 AM
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Seriously, with the pandemic crisis raging and the congressional bailout packages running a likely tab of multiple trillions of dollars, it is *inevitable* that the GOP will do an about-face on deficits the very second that Biden (or any other Democrat) becomes president.
The pandemic and bailouts have nothing to do with it. Republicans will call any deficit under a Democratic president a crisis. Hell, Biden could balance the budget and Republicans would attack him for not running a surplus.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:09 AM
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:13 AM
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Of all the things that Biden says out loud that he shouldn't, this shouldn't be one of them.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:14 AM
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Seriously, with the pandemic crisis raging and the congressional bailout packages running a likely tab of multiple trillions of dollars, it is *inevitable* that the GOP will do an about-face on deficits the very second that Biden (or any other Democrat) becomes president. In order to preemptively ward off another round of 2010-era bullshit deficit hysteria, Biden should come out this second and assert that his administration will never care about the deficit as an issue. Hewing to a deficit-focused, belt-tightening POV will only result in the hamstringing of Biden's agenda and the clobbering of the Democrats in the '22 midterms, given that the public doesn't care about deficits and absolutely hates austerity.

An idea I'd like to see carried out is the reverse of Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge, whereby candidates and representatives would sign onto a document that pledges their fealty to ignoring deficits *as a principle.*
IMO, the democratic 'shellacking' that happened in 2010 was due to democrats not bothering to vote.

In 2008, 65 million people voted for democrats for house elections vs 52 million republicans.

In 2010, 39 million democrats showed up vs 45 million republicans.

So 26 million democrats stayed home vs 7 million republicans.

I don't know if its ever been proven why so many more democrats stayed home, but I would assume part of it was despondency at how inept the democrats are when given power. Yes they passed the stimulus and ACA which are both good. But for the most part they didn't use the power the voters gave them.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:33 PM
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Even were the policy correct, what would be the urgency to say so now? It would just provide "independents" a reason not to vote for Biden.
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Old 03-22-2020, 02:57 PM
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This political theory works about as well a Trump declaring that he’s going to lie through his fucking teeth every time he opens his mouth.... so that Democrats can’t accuse him of lying.
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:53 PM
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The minute that Biden puts his hand on the Bible, the Republicans will claim that the deficit is the most important problem in the history of the universe and only tax cuts for the wealthy, slashing the social safety net, and deep cuts to Social Security will save they day in their struggle to uphold truth, justice, and the American Way.

I certainly hope that Democrats control both chambers of Congress plus the White House in 10 months. First order of business, ditch the filibuster and pass a bill doing away with the debt limit. If Republicans have any power, they will weaponize the debt limit either to extort Biden or to sabotage the government to destroy it and thus gain control of the wreckage.
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Old 03-22-2020, 04:45 PM
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If I wanted presidents who don't care about the deficit, I'd be a Republican.

Responsible presidents, which I expect Joe Biden will be, should care about the deficit. It's a serious issue. A responsible president should consider all of the aspects of an issue, balance them out, and then decide on the best policy. Only an idiot would think there's one simple answer that applies to every question.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:17 PM
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With kickbacks planned in response to the covid-19 crisis, the 2020 deficit will be the biggest ever. Moving forward, severe austerity would be required to get deficits back to even the 2015 level. Austerity that would plunge the country into depression.

Forget the ambitious proposals of Sanders or Warren; the debt will continue to grow under more modest programs like Biden's. After GOP governments over the last 40 years have funneled trillions to the super-rich, are we to say that there's no more money left for schoolchildren? for the poor? for the unemployed or uninsured? Restoring American society and its economy must be the first priority. It would be gross dereliction of duty to focus on deficit reduction any time soon. Ronald Reagan, Dick Cheney, and MMT all agree that "deficits don't matter." At this point we must just hope they're right.

When America recovers from the covid-19 crisis, the devastation left in its wake should be a big wake-up call. We can't hope for GOP voters to come out of their coma of ideology and bigotry, but the rest of us should be newly energized and ready to move forward boldly.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:06 AM
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Democrats need a message like “trickle up”. Put a marginal tax rate of 50% on income above $1 million, 75% above $10 million. On all income, including dividends, interest, capital gains, and inheritance. Grant $200 per week to every adult resident. All numbers adjusted for inflation yearly.

Have some economists write up the positive economic benefits. Compare and contrast to the “trickle up” policies. If we’re going to run deficits, let’s move the benefits to the people who need it the most.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ManyTacos View Post
Seriously, with the pandemic crisis raging and the congressional bailout packages running a likely tab of multiple trillions of dollars, it is *inevitable* that the GOP will do an about-face on deficits the very second that Biden (or any other Democrat) becomes president. In order to preemptively ward off another round of 2010-era bullshit deficit hysteria, Biden should come out this second and assert that his administration will never care about the deficit as an issue. Hewing to a deficit-focused, belt-tightening POV will only result in the hamstringing of Biden's agenda and the clobbering of the Democrats in the '22 midterms, given that the public doesn't care about deficits and absolutely hates austerity.

An idea I'd like to see carried out is the reverse of Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge, whereby candidates and representatives would sign onto a document that pledges their fealty to ignoring deficits *as a principle.*
So what happens if the national debt grows so large that it forces interest rates and inflation to soar upwards? Should President Biden just ignore that as well?
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:48 AM
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The idea that "Republicans did it, so we'll do it, too" makes it seem as if deficits/debt don't carry real, tangible consequences.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:39 PM
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The idea that "Republicans did it, so we'll do it, too" makes it seem as if deficits/debt don't carry real, tangible consequences.
I don't see a smiley-face in your post, but I'll assume that yours is a whooosh. I will reply anyway, on the off-chance some don't know you are joking.

Reagan ran up huge deficits which Clinton and his D's worked hard to overcome, even reducing programs for the needy. By the end of the 1990's the government under Clinton was running huge surpluses.

Bush-43 undid those efforts as fast as he could, funneling trillions to the rich and trillions to a war — a war so misguided that the only discernable purpose was to run up the profits of munitions manufacturers and other defense contractors. (And both Bush and Cheney had large stock holdings in defense contractors.) Pro-Wall St. malfeasance led to a need for a massive taxpayer-funded bailout ... a bailout of Wall St. multi-millionaires, not the millions of Americans evicted from their homes.

During Obama's terms the deficits were reduced year after year. But as soon as the GOP gained power again, trillions in tax cuts were enacted to help corporations and the very rich.

Trillion; Trillions; Trillions to enrich the already super-rich. All with capital T's. And because there's no funds left, cuts are made to critical agencies like CDC.

Enough is enough. That's twice the D's have sacrificed their plans to help hard-working Americans in order to repay the huge donations R's have made to the rich. And if Biden wins, and scrimps again, angering his constituents and leading to another R victory, the R's, once in power again, will waste no time in forcing the deficit as high as they can again.

@ Velocity — I'll give you some credit and assume yours was an attempt at some sick joke. If I'm wrong and you are actually serious, please take it to the Pit.

Last edited by septimus; 03-23-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:48 PM
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^^ I am 100% serious. If you want to Pit, go ahead.

If one party is dedicated to running up debt/deficit (the GOP, as you say,) then we need a party dedicated to reducing debt/deficit. If both parties take an attitude of, "I refuse to scrimp and save just so my opponents can benefit," then we are doubly screwed as a nation.

A marriage in which one spouse is running up the credit cards and the other is tightening the belt, is already barely treading water financially; a marriage in which both insist on running up the credit cards is headed towards straight-up bankruptcy.

Obviously, the ideal thing would be for both parties to be financially responsible, not just one. But if one is bad, the other must be good, for the sake of the nation.

Last edited by Velocity; 03-23-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:23 PM
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^^ I am 100% serious. If you want to Pit, go ahead.

If one party is dedicated to running up debt/deficit (the GOP, as you say,) then we need a party dedicated to reducing debt/deficit. If both parties take an attitude of, "I refuse to scrimp and save just so my opponents can benefit," then we are doubly screwed as a nation.

A marriage in which one spouse is running up the credit cards and the other is tightening the belt, is already barely treading water financially; a marriage in which both insist on running up the credit cards is headed towards straight-up bankruptcy.

Obviously, the ideal thing would be for both parties to be financially responsible, not just one. But if one is bad, the other must be good, for the sake of the nation.
Sounds great in theory, but as soon as the responsible spouse starts trying to tighten the belt, the kids vote to hand the credit card to the other parent.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:34 PM
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^^ I am 100% serious. If you want to Pit, go ahead.

If one party is dedicated to running up debt/deficit (the GOP, as you say,) then we need a party dedicated to reducing debt/deficit. If both parties take an attitude of, "I refuse to scrimp and save just so my opponents can benefit," then we are doubly screwed as a nation.

A marriage in which one spouse is running up the credit cards and the other is tightening the belt, is already barely treading water financially; a marriage in which both insist on running up the credit cards is headed towards straight-up bankruptcy.

Obviously, the ideal thing would be for both parties to be financially responsible, not just one. But if one is bad, the other must be good, for the sake of the nation.
Sounds great in theory, but as soon as the responsible spouse starts trying to tighten the belt, the kids vote to hand the credit card to the other parent.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:35 PM
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A marriage in which one spouse is running up the credit cards and the other is tightening the belt, is already barely treading water financially; a marriage in which both insist on running up the credit cards is headed towards straight-up bankruptcy.
Suppose my wife is a pyromaniac, setting forests on fire with her flame-thrower. Will it do any good for me to carefully crush my cigarettes out? Frankly, my best policy might be to set fires deliberately, positioned to serve as back-fires.

HTH.
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Old 03-24-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 2ManyTacos View Post
Seriously, with the pandemic crisis raging and the congressional bailout packages running a likely tab of multiple trillions of dollars, it is *inevitable* that the GOP will do an about-face on deficits the very second that Biden (or any other Democrat) becomes president. In order to preemptively ward off another round of 2010-era bullshit deficit hysteria, Biden should come out this second and assert that his administration will never care about the deficit as an issue. Hewing to a deficit-focused, belt-tightening POV will only result in the hamstringing of Biden's agenda and the clobbering of the Democrats in the '22 midterms, given that the public doesn't care about deficits and absolutely hates austerity.

An idea I'd like to see carried out is the reverse of Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge, whereby candidates and representatives would sign onto a document that pledges their fealty to ignoring deficits *as a principle.*
If a Democrat wins the White House in 2020, the '22 midterms are probably going to be another GOP wave anyway, regardless of if the deficit is a issue or not.

Most Americans are financially bankrupt, just like the government. Does it really matter?
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:26 PM
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^^ I am 100% serious. If you want to Pit, go ahead.

If one party is dedicated to running up debt/deficit (the GOP, as you say,) then we need a party dedicated to reducing debt/deficit. If both parties take an attitude of, "I refuse to scrimp and save just so my opponents can benefit," then we are doubly screwed as a nation.

A marriage in which one spouse is running up the credit cards and the other is tightening the belt, is already barely treading water financially; a marriage in which both insist on running up the credit cards is headed towards straight-up bankruptcy.

Obviously, the ideal thing would be for both parties to be financially responsible, not just one. But if one is bad, the other must be good, for the sake of the nation.
The problem is reckless spending on borrowed money feels good. It's a lot more fun than saving your money, working overtime, and paying the bills. So a lot of people choose the easy financial policy rather than the responsible one.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:07 PM
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Sorry, I don't mean to interupt but where is the thread regarding the harassment charges against Biden?
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:32 PM
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Jeeze this is a stupid idea. It stands out as a bright shining Star of Stupid in a forum known for stupid ideas. It
also would make Trump's re-election easier. Biden's already got an uphill battle. Portraying himself as fiscally incompetent
is just handing ammo to the enemy.
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