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  #301  
Old 01-20-2019, 04:35 PM
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silenus silenus is offline
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3. The players, obscenely rich though they may be, have at least always been clear and upfront; they want to be paid market value. Bitching about making millions instead of more millions may seem vulgar, and IS vulgar, but they're honest about it.
This is why I couldn't be mad at Zach Greinke for bailing on the Dodgers to play for Arizona. He was totally upfront about the cash.

I will still allow myself a little smile about his performance since leaving LA.
  #302  
Old 01-20-2019, 05:33 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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The players, obscenely rich though they may be, have at least always been clear and upfront; they want to be paid market value.
Naive sorts may wonder how "market value" came to be defined as "what I think I should be paid" instead of "what the market is willing to pay me".
  #303  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:31 PM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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I'm not sure I understand the point. Of course the player will attempt to find a suitor willing to pay an exorbitant amount. Often, they are successful.
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  #304  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:02 AM
Jas09 Jas09 is online now
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Naive sorts may wonder how "market value" came to be defined as "what I think I should be paid" instead of "what the market is willing to pay me".
Well, that gets in to somewhat tricky areas like "how much is an employee worth to an organization"? The pure capitalistic answer is "what the market will bear" - but that doesn't really apply to MLB where a CBA determines and tremendously limits what players make in the early part of their career. In a truly free market Kris Bryant (to name just one example) would not have played for the Cubs in 2017 for like $1M.

Another way to go about it is to define a percentage of revenue that goes to the players, and then divide that money between the players in whatever way the owners/GMs see fit. Of course then the question becomes "what percentage of revenue is appropriate?". I think NFL players are guaranteed 47%. NBA is over 50% I think, and NHL right at 50%. Of course all of those leagues have salary caps (and floors?) as well as sometimes maximum individual salaries.

The MLB system punishes the young players which has in the past allowed teams to lavish riches on the older players. Now that teams aren't giving those riches to older players, they (the older players - typically the ones filling union representative roles) are started to gripe.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:09 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Well, that gets in to somewhat tricky areas like "how much is an employee worth to an organization"? The pure capitalistic answer is "what the market will bear" - but that doesn't really apply to MLB where a CBA determines and tremendously limits what players make in the early part of their career.
Which could be said for lots of union contracts (teachers, for example).
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The MLB system punishes the young players
If they feel they're being "punished" (remember Kris Bryant's $10.9 mil in 2018), they can certainly push for changes in the CBA. I'm just not sure why sports reports/commentators in general take up the cry of "unfair!" automatically.

Part of it may be the desire to suck up to players in order to get interviews and juicy tidbits, and another factor (in common with fans) may be wanting their favorite teams to sign top talent, whatever the cost (which they of course are not paying, but have an excellent idea how the money should be spent).
  #306  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:56 AM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Woe...the poor players!!! Those same MLB players who don't give a rats ass about their hamstrung brothers they left behind in the minors.
  #307  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:27 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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Originally Posted by Jas09 View Post
Well, that gets in to somewhat tricky areas like "how much is an employee worth to an organization"? The pure capitalistic answer is "what the market will bear" - but that doesn't really apply to MLB where a CBA determines and tremendously limits what players make in the early part of their career. In a truly free market Kris Bryant (to name just one example) would not have played for the Cubs in 2017 for like $1M.
And, of course, it's equally weird at the other end, where top players is subject to winner's curse, whereby the team that gets the player has usually paid more than the market felt the player was worth.

I really don't think the current system - which, for all that they make small changes to the CBA, has been fundamentally the same for decades - is going to be sustainable. Pro sports interest is flattening and revenues will flatten soon. The expectations of the players in terms of the upper limits on their salaries is, based on history, heavily in the direction of assuming that

1. The salaries will keep going up, and
2. It'll largely keep going up the way it always has - rewarding veterans with exorbitant deals.

Not only will flattening revenues end this, but simple analytics is biting into the willingness of teams to hand out giant deals, as they're looking at the facts and seeing they're probably going to get bit in the ass.
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  #308  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:41 PM
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Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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Not only will flattening revenues end this, but simple analytics is biting into the willingness of teams to hand out giant deals, as they're looking at the facts and seeing they're probably going to get bit in the ass.
I do agree with this, but given that the owners ARE making tons of money, the obvious solution is for early-career salaries to go up (and probably way up) or for the lock-in period to be 2 MLB years, then free agency.

This is something the owners will fight tooth and nail and unfortunately, I'm afraid the MLBPA is not structured to properly resist the owners on this. The owners will throw a bone to the +6 players and keep the "bad" early deals in place.

Unfortunately, I don't really see any way to get the Association to look at the dynamics top-to-bottom (including MiLB players, Dale) and cut the best deal for the most people.

Last edited by Zakalwe; 01-21-2019 at 06:45 PM.
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