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Old 12-16-2019, 10:43 PM
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Obama attacking Biden ?


This BBC article reports Obama's comments while in Singapore.

Among them was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama
If you look at the world and look at the problems it's usually old people, usually old men, not getting out of the way
It's hard to avoid a sense that this is aimed at Biden.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:49 PM
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Or it's aimed at Bernie, or Trump, or Bloomberg, or even Warren. He's right though.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:56 PM
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I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't want Biden to be the president. He definitely doesn't want Bernie, and by extension Warren (the less honest Bernie). I'm not sure who he does want though
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:07 PM
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It's possible Obama wasn't thinking about Biden or the 2020 election at all. His mind may have been referencing something else entirely. I doubt he would savage his own former VP that way.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xema View Post
This BBC article reports Obama's comments while in Singapore.

Among them was this:

It's hard to avoid a sense that this is aimed at Biden.
Obama and Biden are friends. Obama is not gonna attack him.
  #6  
Old 12-17-2019, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Xema View Post
It's hard to avoid a sense that this is aimed at Biden.
Nah, in the circles that Obama travels in it's just kind of expected that you'll mention the inferiority of men and superiority of women from time to time.
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Old 12-17-2019, 01:46 AM
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Obama and Biden are friends. Obama is not gonna attack him.
Putting aside any personal feelings, Biden was Obama's choice for Vice President. If Obama says Biden isn't capable of being President then he's also saying he screwed up when he picked him. Any attack on Biden is also an attack on himself.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:54 AM
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Putting aside any personal feelings, Biden was Obama's choice for Vice President. If Obama says Biden isn't capable of being President then he's also saying he screwed up when he picked him. Any attack on Biden is also an attack on himself.
It was eleven years ago. Biden was less old then.

I guess we all were, actually.
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Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 12-17-2019 at 03:56 AM.
  #9  
Old 12-17-2019, 04:45 AM
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Obama was giving a speech in Malaysia....
Could he have been referencing Mahatiar?
The comments were made in Singapore....
Could he have been referencing the legacy style politics and paternalism of the Singapore political environment?
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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Dems in DISARRAY!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xema View Post
It's hard to avoid a sense that this is aimed at Biden.
Funny, I found it startlingly easy to avoid that sense. Particularly after I actually read the article and understood: a) that Obama's quoted comments were delivered at an Obama Foundation event to mentor young leaders, and b) the comment about old men getting out of the way was in direct response to the question of whether he would consider returning to political leadership.

Or, instead of taking remarks in the way they were intended, we could stoke imagined divisions and conflicts among the amorphous political left, based on flimsy interpretations and untested suppositions. Based on the recent past, I suspect that's what we'll do. (Did you hear about what Nancy Pelosi said to Chuck Schumer about AOC? SHocking!1)
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:09 AM
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On reviewing the above, I realize I may have implied something I didn't mean.

I don't think the OP was deliberately divisive or provocative, and I don't believe that Xema is in any way posting in bad faith.

I merely want to discourage the sort of analyses of public remarks that try to excavate conflict and meanings that are unsupported by circumstance, context or history. There are organizations that are right now manufacturing that sort of thing out of whole cloth. "We" don't need to go looking for divisions where they're not, and we certainly shouldn't work whatever wedges we find deeper into the body politic. Conflict should move us toward compromise and consensus, not toward fracture.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:16 AM
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To set the record straight, Obama has never been enthusiastic about Biden running for president.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:21 AM
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Just before reading this I was on Facebook and one is my friends posted that the intent was to help Biden by splitting the progressive vote. I guess we can read whatever we want into what he said. I think that he was just saying that it would be nice to have more women involved in leadership.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:40 AM
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To set the record straight, Obama has never been enthusiastic about Biden running for president.
I don't disbelieve you, and I agree that, if this is supported by direct Obama comments addressing the subject of Joe Biden running for president, it could be peripherally relevant to Biden's campaign and to the 2020 Democratic primary season in general considering Obama's so far rather passive role as an opinion influencer.

Could you help me understand how you would like that straightened out record to be understood by the electorate at large?

For the record (a different record), I'm not a fan of Candidate Biden, even though I like Citizen Biden quite a bit, and my questions and comments should not be taken as a defense of Biden, Obama or any particular politician.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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Could you help me understand how you would like that straightened out record to be understood by the electorate at large?
Probably not because the record is so crooked and distorted that there's no point in addressing any one part of it. Not just the record of Obama and Biden, but all the candidates and presidential politics in general. People just need to stop listening to candidates, political parties, and the media.

Last edited by TriPolar; 12-17-2019 at 09:46 AM.
  #16  
Old 12-17-2019, 09:47 AM
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Funny, I found it startlingly easy to avoid that sense. Particularly after I actually read the article and understood: a) that Obama's quoted comments were delivered at an Obama Foundation event to mentor young leaders, and b) the comment about old men getting out of the way was in direct response to the question of whether he would consider returning to political leadership.
Imposing new invented narratives onto comments and actions removed from their original context is all the rage these days.

But yeah - this was never about Obama "attacking" anyone, least of all Biden.
  #17  
Old 12-17-2019, 09:52 AM
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People just need to stop listening to candidates, political parties, and the media.
So, should we all just subscribe to your newsletter?
  #18  
Old 12-17-2019, 10:33 AM
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I'll admit that "attacking" may be a bit too strong here.

But Obama is smart and savvy - he well knows that a former US President's remarks at even a minor event overseas will receive publicity and attention well beyond that event.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:36 AM
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Nah, in the circles that Obama travels in it's just kind of expected that you'll mention the inferiority of men and superiority of women from time to time.
LOL

Nice try.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:37 AM
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So, should we all just subscribe to your newsletter?
Or, maybe, just maybe, just for the shits and giggles, try thinking for yourself.
  #21  
Old 12-17-2019, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Or, maybe, just maybe, just for the shits and giggles, try thinking for yourself.
https://xkcd.com/610/
  #22  
Old 12-17-2019, 11:30 AM
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Or, maybe, just maybe, just for the shits and giggles, try thinking for yourself.
"...and I'll know you aren't thinking for yourself if you don't reach the exact same conclusion I did."
  #23  
Old 12-17-2019, 02:06 PM
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"...and I'll know you aren't thinking for yourself if you don't reach the exact same conclusion I did."
Hey, I'm a rebel who doesn't listen to what other people say! The beer I drink and the truck I drive prove that!
  #24  
Old 12-18-2019, 05:29 AM
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Or, maybe, just maybe, just for the shits and giggles, try thinking for yourself.
So when you said "don't listen to the media" you didn't mean I should somehow absorb news of the world telepathically? Like, I should form my own opinions is what you meant? Heavy stuff, dude.
  #25  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:05 AM
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An important thing to remember about Barack Obama is that as good an orator as he is, not everything he says has any real meaning for him. It's just something he says that sounds good and this is one example. He is in no way serious about the implications of his statement.
  #26  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:22 AM
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Nah, in the circles that Obama travels in it's just kind of expected that you'll mention the inferiority of men and superiority of women from time to time.
This post made my eyes roll like a slot machine.
  #27  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
Obama was giving a speech in Malaysia....
Could he have been referencing Mahatiar?
The comments were made in Singapore....
Could he have been referencing the legacy style politics and paternalism of the Singapore political environment?
This.
Americans need to learn that it’s not always about them.
Spend five minutes reading about the political history of Malaysia (and Singapore, and Indonesia where Obama once lived, and even China WRT Hong Kong) over the past forty years or so, then come back to this thread.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 12-18-2019 at 07:34 AM.
  #28  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:37 AM
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This post made my eyes roll like a slot machine.
This type of facile rhetoric was even something Reagan employed. It did not actually imply a real worldvview in his case either.
  #29  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:51 AM
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An important thing to remember about Barack Obama is that as good an orator as he is, not everything he says has any real meaning for him. It's just something he says that sounds good and this is one example. He is in no way serious about the implications of his statement.
Ooo, do another mindreading trick! What's he thinking about now? Is it Dijon mustard?

Despite concerted efforts by some to denigrate Obama's greatest strength - his rhetorical ability - he remains someone who chooses his words carefully in pretty much every occasion in which he is using prepared remarks, as this was. Given the actual context of the excerpted phrase, the "implications of the statement" are fairly straightforward as xenophon41 has already indicated. The inferences some prefer to draw instead...well, there's nothing to be done about that.
  #30  
Old 12-18-2019, 07:54 AM
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He does choose his words carefully... to ingratiate himself to his audience. He's a career politician. His words are designed to make it sounds like he's saying something without actually committing himself to anything. If they do have actual meaning, then that actual meaning should be explained. If you don't know what that meaning is, then it's a toss off remark that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
  #31  
Old 12-18-2019, 08:49 AM
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He does choose his words carefully... to ingratiate himself to his audience. He's a career politician. His words are designed to make it sounds like he's saying something without actually committing himself to anything. If they do have actual meaning, then that actual meaning should be explained. If you don't know what that meaning is, then it's a toss off remark that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
There's nothing left for him to aspire to, politically. Is your personal hatred for this man really so deep that you think he's purposefully dishonest even when there's no possible political benefit for him?

This is just ridiculous. You should recognize that your personal feelings about Obama render you totally incapable of analyzing his actions with anything approaching objectivity.
  #32  
Old 12-18-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xema View Post
This BBC article reports Obama's comments while in Singapore.

Among them was this:

It's hard to avoid a sense that this is aimed at Biden.
My immediate reaction was to relate this to the Greta Thunberg situation
  #33  
Old 12-18-2019, 09:54 AM
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If he were asked, I am sure he would say that he didn't mean those old men. He meant "there are good people on both sides".

And of course he's right. Many of the problems of the world are because old men won't get out of the way. But not, in his view, Biden or Sanders, because they're men and they're old and they aren't getting out of the way, but that isn't causing any problem. They're not what he meant.

Regards,
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  #34  
Old 12-18-2019, 09:55 AM
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Yes, yes. Everyone is a two faced hypocrite. Thanks.
  #35  
Old 12-18-2019, 10:21 AM
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So when you said "don't listen to the media" you didn't mean I should somehow absorb news of the world telepathically? Like, I should form my own opinions is what you meant? Heavy stuff, dude.
You're point is correct. I should have said "stop doing what the media, etc. tells you to do. Listen to what they say with skepticism and make up your own mind."
  #36  
Old 12-18-2019, 02:55 PM
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Read recently the two of them had a lengthy conversation at Elijah Cumming's funeral service.

Anyway with John Kerry endorsing + other alumni of the last administration it does seem folks who have been in power are gathering around Biden now.
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