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Old 11-18-2019, 06:17 PM
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Biden: I will not legalize marijuana (This just cost him the election)


Support for legalization of recreational marijuana is at an all time high
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-legalization/

Americans overwhelmingly support legalization of marijuana, and not just medical either, more people support legalization of recreational AND medical. Over 2/3rds of the country supports legalization. Marijuana ties into many other critical issues, such as criminal justice, immigration, and healthcare.

I believe this is going to absolutely kill Biden off in the primaries, sure he'll still sit in the top 3 for sometime, but like before thats only because the low informed people who are more likely to go to polls, know his name and know his face. When he comes out and makes his positions more public, it hurts him. Doubling down on Obamacare, that hurts him on the left, and right. Not supporting legal marijuana, that hurts him on the left greatly, and even the right. 55% of gen X republicans and 49% of boomer republicans support legalizing marijuana.

Now let's say, Biden vs Trump it's 2020, and we're in a heated election. Trump goes on stage and says, you know what? Let's legalize marijuana. Guess what? He just got a huge bump of support for that comment. And he just pulled a lot of voters to his side even ones who dislike him greatly just because he wants to in theory legalize marijuana. All trump has to do is run on this, and what little division in his base there will be over this can be squashed by him leading the reigns and making claims about how good for the economy it would be, hell he could even bring up immigration and tie legalization into killing cartel profits. And he would be right. Biden is handing this position to trump on a silver platter just waiting for it to blow up in his face.


I have 0 clue how you can be an old ass boomer who's been involved in politics his entire life, and not realize how much of a fuck up going out and saying this is. Is anyone here going to argue we should be running candidates who still think marijuana is a gateway drug and shouldn't be legalized?
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:25 PM
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I hope it does beat Biden in the primaries, but I'll still be voting Not Trump come Election Day.

I fear for Warren's chances and I know Sanders can't win the Primary. Is the country ready for Buttigieg? Small city, very young, would be the youngest President ever. First gay President. But he is moderate without being a doddering old fool like Biden. He is a Vet, that should help I hope.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:28 PM
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It's a stupid policy to take, but I doubt it would have nearly the impact you describe on the general election. It's a fairly minor issue for most people (even liberals who smoke themselves -- especially if they live in a state that's already legal).

If he was running on a platform of enforcing the Federal law and stopping the states that legalized pot, THAT would be bad. But as it Is? I don't think the electorate cares this much about the issue.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
I hope it does beat Biden in the primaries, but I'll still be voting Not Trump come Election Day.

I fear for Warren's chances and I know Sanders can't win the Primary. Is the country ready for Buttigieg? Small city, very young, would be the youngest President ever. First gay President. But he is moderate without being a doddering old fool like Biden. He is a Vet, that should help I hope.
People won't support Pete over Bernie because he doesn't want M4A. Plus the issues of racism in his hometown will come back to haunt him anytime he gets a lift in polling. Trump would kneecap him, i can see him coining the term "Racist Pete".
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:36 PM
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People won't support Pete over Bernie because he doesn't want M4A. Plus the issues of racism in his hometown will come back to haunt him anytime he gets a lift in polling. Trump would kneecap him, i can see him coining the term "Racist Pete".
What is M4A?
The racism of his hometown is going to be very tough. He is polling poorly with African Americans currently.

ETA: Jebus, now we have to abbreviate Medicaid for all? Argh!

Last edited by What Exit?; 11-18-2019 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:38 PM
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You are greatly overestimating the importance most voters place on legalized marijuana, even those who would ostensibly prefer that policy outcome. Biden remains the front runner for the time being.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:39 PM
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It's a stupid policy to take, but I doubt it would have nearly the impact you describe on the general election. It's a fairly minor issue for most people (even liberals who smoke themselves -- especially if they live in a state that's already legal).

If he was running on a platform of enforcing the Federal law and stopping the states that legalized pot, THAT would be bad. But as it Is? I don't think the electorate cares this much about the issue.

The bigger point here is, A) majority of americans support full legalization, B) Even republicans have shifted towards a majority on this, C) weed ties into other critical issues such as immigration, criminal justice, and healthcare.

We need to take votes from trump, haul in the independent votes that Hillary caused, and reinforce our own side. This not legalizing weed, does the opposite of all of that. It possibly hands trump voters, pushes dems to independent, and divides our base further.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:42 PM
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You are greatly overestimating the importance most voters place on legalized marijuana, even those who would ostensibly prefer that policy outcome. Biden remains the front runner for the time being.
You're greatly underestimating the importance placed on legalized marijuana. As i explained, this isnt just about weed, it ties into immigration, criminal justice, and healthcare as well.

The media is going to try their best to sweep this under the rug so people dont know about bidens comments. But i promise u this will bite him in the ass. A lot of those independent voters in 2016, voted Gary Johnson solely because he mentioned legalizing weed. Hell, i think even ron paul got a ton of support in 2012 by just uttering the words legalization.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:46 PM
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What is M4A?
The racism of his hometown is going to be very tough. He is polling poorly with African Americans currently.

ETA: Jebus, now we have to abbreviate Medicaid for all? Argh!
Medicare For All would end the variability of Medicaid benefits. M4A goes above and beyond what you might think.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:48 PM
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It' understandable that many voters would be turned off by Biden if he came out strongly for legalizing. Saying NO will alienate many others. IMHO, the way he should handle it is to make some kind of statement saying he would "study" the situation. That would allow him to slide whichever way the political wind blows in the future and save face no matter what. Saying NO is lose-lose; saying "study" is win-win.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:55 PM
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It' understandable that many voters would be turned off by Biden if he came out strongly for legalizing. Saying NO will alienate many others. IMHO, the way he should handle it is to make some kind of statement saying he would "study" the situation. That would allow him to slide whichever way the political wind blows in the future and save face no matter what. Saying NO is lose-lose; saying "study" is win-win.
He had like 40 years to "study" the situation. The increasing amount of information and studies in regards to marijuana should be evident.

I agree it would have saved a little bit of face, but I would be just as outraged by a claim such as "I'll look into it" if not more because I'm aware of the game.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:55 PM
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It's not surprising to me that Biden is against legalization. Marijuana prohibition is an archaic relic of a bygone era. Just like him.

Keep that record player on, Joe.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:58 PM
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He had like 40 years to "study" the situation. The increasing amount of information and studies in regards to marijuana should be evident.

I agree it would have saved a little bit of face, but I would be just as outraged by a claim such as "I'll look into it" if not more because I'm aware of the game.
You're preachin' to the choir, Dude. But not every voter is as convinced.

I was only suggesting a politically smart way -- even a copout -- to handle the topic and not lose votes.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:05 PM
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You're greatly underestimating the importance placed on legalized marijuana. As i explained, this isnt just about weed, it ties into immigration, criminal justice, and healthcare as well.
Marijuana isn’t even in the top thirty pressing issues surrounding criminal justice, healthcare, or immigration. This just doesn’t even register from my perspective. Yes, some people care about it — but unless you’re suggesting that all four million Gary Johnson voters would go for a marijuana-legalizing Joe Biden, I think this is a minor oops at best.



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The media is going to try their best to sweep this under the rug so people dont know about bidens comments.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the media gives this the utterly minimal attention it deserves, yes.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:15 PM
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It is safe for Biden to take this position.

On the outside chance that he wins the Democratic nomination, a boring old white guy with little to offer will lose to Trump. His time is past and his own enthusiasm is lacking. He doesn't even seem to want the job himself.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:20 PM
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Remember that marijuana is still on Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act, designating it as a dangerous substance with no medical use. Its placement there is mainly due to former Prohibition director Harry Anslinger circa 1930 as Prohibition was ending, to ensure another cause célèbre to further his career once Prohibition was over.

Sometimes I don't understand Biden. The old coot could at least have proposed to remove it from Schedule 1, something that's been proposed on and off since the 70s. Why make the argument about legalization when there's an issue right now that, under federal law, it's essentially regarded as the most dangerous substance in existence -- a fact that makes the US a laughingstock for its drug categorizations!

I think Biden is under the impression that he's appealing to flyover country rednecks.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:41 PM
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It is safe for Biden to take this position.

On the outside chance that he wins the Democratic nomination, a boring old white guy with little to offer will lose to Trump. His time is past and his own enthusiasm is lacking. He doesn't even seem to want the job himself.
I don't feel this is true. I think there are still a lot of people who want the President to be a mainstream white man. Trump's personal failings have lost a lot of support in this demographic. Biden's positioning himself to be the alternative. He's running as a middle-of-the-road candidate, confident that as long as he ends up running against Trump, the left will hold their nose and vote for him.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:46 PM
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I don't feel this is true. I think there are still a lot of people who want the President to be a mainstream white man. Trump's personal failings have lost a lot of support in this demographic. Biden's positioning himself to be the alternative. He's running as a middle-of-the-road candidate, confident that as long as he ends up running against Trump, the left will hold their nose and vote for him.
Yeah, and I would still vote for him in that situation, but just like Hillary he will be slaughtered by low turnout.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:48 PM
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If I'm reading his tweet right, he doesn't think anybody should be in jail for pot use, he favors medical marijuana in all cases, and he favors letting states decide on recreational use.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:13 PM
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If I'm reading his tweet right, he doesn't think anybody should be in jail for pot use, he favors medical marijuana in all cases, and he favors letting states decide on recreational use.
If that's his position then this thread is bonkers. For those who don't want to bother, the tweet has a bullet point list:
-No one should be in jail for marijuana
-Decriminalize and expunge records
-Legalize medical
- Allow states to legalize
-Remove from schedule 1 to allow research

From reading the replies, all the potheads are misrepresenting some video clip and mad he called pot a gateway drug 20 years ago.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:20 PM
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Marijuana isn’t even in the top thirty pressing issues surrounding criminal justice, healthcare, or immigration. This just doesn’t even register from my perspective. Yes, some people care about it — but unless you’re suggesting that all four million Gary Johnson voters would go for a marijuana-legalizing Joe Biden, I think this is a minor oops at best.





It wouldn’t surprise me if the media gives this the utterly minimal attention it deserves, yes.

Marijuana possession crimes have disproportionately effected certain people in our criminal system. Drug cartels for decades relied on exporting weed to America, since we've legalized in some states we've had a huge impact on these exports and put a dent in the cartels profits. And medical marijuana is a huge benefit over other medicines for many different issues, we could take cancer patients for example who are on chemo, or we could take people with chronic pain, having medical marijuana as a safer less harmful alternative to opioids is huge.

Marijuana ties into the most important issues voters care about. So even if we're addressing this situation from "what will get more votes", you have to concede the weed topic ties into all these other topics, which arguably are more important to Americans.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:23 PM
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From reading the replies, all the potheads are misrepresenting some video clip and mad he called pot a gateway drug 20 years ago.
If by "20 years ago" you mean "last Saturday".

Quote:
Speaking at a town hall in Las Vegas on Saturday, the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate said whether the U.S. should legalize cannabis on a federal level is still up for debate as far as he is concerned.

"The truth of the matter is, there's not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug," Biden said, according to Business Insider. "It's a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it."
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:24 PM
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From reading the replies, all the potheads are misrepresenting some video clip and mad he called pot a gateway drug 20 years ago.
More recently.

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Originally Posted by Biden
“The truth of the matter is, there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug,” Biden said, according to Business Insider. “It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”
A ridiculous thing for him to believe, but remedied easily enough through education.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:26 PM
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If that's his position then this thread is bonkers. For those who don't want to bother, the tweet has a bullet point list:
-No one should be in jail for marijuana
-Decriminalize and expunge records
-Legalize medical
- Allow states to legalize
-Remove from schedule 1 to allow research

From reading the replies, all the potheads are misrepresenting some video clip and mad he called pot a gateway drug 20 years ago.
"Speaking at a town hall in Las Vegas on Saturday, the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate said whether the U.S. should legalize cannabis on a federal level is still up for debate as far as he is concerned."
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...a-gateway-drug


This was recent, he doubled down on his position from 20 years ago. He made this claim after Bernie started tweeting about how he will use executive order in his first week to legalize marijuana. He back tracked later in that tweet you see, and the bottom line here is he doesn't want to federally legalize weed. If this is a states right issue that means weed businesses still can't get tax benefits. You also wont be able to get some loans to start a weed business due to the complications of having it federally illegal.

Next time you want to claim "potheads" are misrepresenting what he said, do your research.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:27 PM
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Marijuana ties into the most important issues voters care about. So even if we're addressing this situation from "what will get more votes", you have to concede the weed topic ties into all these other topics, which arguably are more important to Americans.
Weed legalization is not even remotely as important as you think to any of those topics. It's not like it cures cancer.

Do you have a link/cite for Biden's position on legalization that upset you?
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:27 PM
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I don't see how this hurts him in any way. Pot has been illegal for decades; he's just keeping it illegal. He didn't say that he was going to step up DEA raids of state-regulated dispensaries.

Relax! Inhale!
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:29 PM
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Next time you want to claim "potheads" are misrepresenting what he said, do your research.
There's a difference between potheads and weed businesses?
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:32 PM
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"Speaking at a town hall in Las Vegas on Saturday, the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate said whether the U.S. should legalize cannabis on a federal level is still up for debate as far as he is concerned."
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...a-gateway-drug
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Nothing in that article contradicts the bullet points in Biden's tweet.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:33 PM
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I think Biden is under the impression that he's appealing to flyover country rednecks.
This is what deeply upsets me. I've met biden in real life several times, he came off very intelligent. Seemed like a genuine down to earth realist who didn't beat around the bush and got directly to the point.


Those "flyover country rednecks" (had to google that one) are likely supporters of Marijuana. In the pew study I posted earlier, 49% of boomer republicans support FULL legalization. The younger the age the higher support even on Republican party. The only generation that is still heavily conflicted on this is Bernie's generation ironically enough, which among the republican party sat somewhere in the 30% range, which is still high especially for that generation.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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Nothing in that article contradicts the bullet points in Biden's tweet.
Never said it was contradicting any of those points. I was refuting your claim that potheads are misrepresenting something he said 20 years ago, it happen a few days ago. And he still doesn't want to legalize it federally, he'd rather it be states right issue which as i pointed out has it's own host of problems.

Supporting decriminalizing is fine, and moving from schedule 1 should have been long before he ever thought of running for president. Thats great, but it doesn't go far enough and it comes off as evasion of the real issue here. Federal legalization, which he does not support.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:39 PM
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Nothing in that article contradicts the bullet points in Biden's tweet.
Yep.
  • he supports medical marijuana
  • insisted possession of the substance "should not be a crime."

Backs up his comments on the 16th May

Quote:
Biden backs decriminalizing marijuana
Former Vice President Joe Biden supports decriminalizing marijuana use and possession, but believes that the question of whether to legalize the drug rests with the states, a spokesperson for his presidential campaign said Thursday.

Biden first signaled his support for decriminalizing marijuana Tuesday during a house party in New Hampshire.

"As he said [Tuesday], Vice President Biden does not believe anyone should be in jail simply for smoking or possessing marijuana,” Andrew Bates, a spokesman for Biden’s campaign, said in a statement.

“He supports decriminalizing marijuana and automatically expunging prior criminal records for marijuana possession, so those affected don’t have to figure out how to petition for it or pay for a lawyer. “

Bates said Biden would ultimately leave legalization of the substance up to the states, but added that, if elected, the former vice president would reclassify marijuana as a Schedule II drug, which would make it easier to research.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:41 PM
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Ok, I agree that calling it a gateway drug (well, questioning if it may be) is kinda dumb. But the position he has taken is still a massive move forward and would make state legalization much more meaningful. I stand by my initial impression: A pot supporter should not be crying about it.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:45 PM
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I don't see how this hurts him in any way. Pot has been illegal for decades; he's just keeping it illegal. He didn't say that he was going to step up DEA raids of state-regulated dispensaries.

Relax! Inhale!
Majority of american support legalization, including republicans and various different age and groups on the right. For example, boomer republicans have 49% support of legalization.

This hurts him because most leftists support legalization, most americans support it, and an increasing number of republicans support it. He's literally losing votes by saying this crap. Also marijuana ties into more things than just it's self. It ties into criminal justice, immigration, and healthcare.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:47 PM
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Thats great, but it doesn't go far enough and it comes off as evasion of the real issue here.
This is obviously very important to you. It is not very important to me( and I support legalization generally, even though I haven't touched the stuff in decades ). I was never all that inclined to support Biden as a candidate in the first place, but this hardly shifts the needle for me. It's a mildly negative raindrop in a vast sea of indifference. And like others I think you are vastly overstating its importance to the general public. I can imagine more than a very few are going to prefer Trump based on this being the straw that breaks the camel's back. I know it won't even make me hesitate a split-second to vote for Biden if it comes down to it. Other things could I guess, but this? Pfft.

But I guess we'll see.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 11-18-2019 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:48 PM
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Ok, I agree that calling it a gateway drug (well, questioning if it may be) is kinda dumb. But the position he has taken is still a massive move forward and would make state legalization much more meaningful. I stand by my initial impression: A pot supporter should not be crying about it.
Yes, his position is more forward than it was most his life.


But it doesn't go far enough, and this attempt at a middle ground doesn't work because even boomer republicans are at a divided 49% support of marijuana. It needs to be federally legalized, and any myths about it being a gateway drug which have been refuted time and time again should never be repeated.

A pot supporter should be bitching about it. Just like when arkansa iirc wanted to monopolize weed, we bitched about it. When booker wanted to monopolize weed we bitched about it. We don't have to settle for less.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:51 PM
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This is obviously very important to you. It is not very important to me( and I support legalization generally, even though I haven't touched the stuff in decades ). I was never all that inclined to support Biden as a candidate in the first place, but this hardly shifts the needle for me. It's a negative raindrop in a vast sea of indifference. And like others I think you are vastly overstating its importance to the general public. I can imagine more than a very few are going to prefer Trump based on this being the straw that breaks the camel's back.

But I guess we'll see.
The bigger issue for me is that he was dumb enough to go out and say this. If he's this uncalculated in his remarks, I can only imagine what Trump will do to him in the general election.

Trump is the type of guy to turn around and support federal legalization just to take those votes from Biden, and then turn around and unify the other 50% of boomers and 70% of silent gen republicans on this topic. This is an incredible misstep for Biden and is much more than just about the pot topic alone.

And if you think theres no chance in hell trump would kneecap Biden over marijuana, then I guess we just disagree because I'm not going to put it past him.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:54 PM
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I am a pot supporter, though happily in Canada. Biden's position is a perfectly reasonable major step forward in how the US deals with marijuana and seems to sweep away the problems of prohibition. If I was voting in the primaries this wouldn't cost him my support in any way.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:56 PM
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Also marijuana ties into more things than just it's self. It ties into criminal justice, immigration, and healthcare.
You make that claim, but when I think of those things, weed isn't in the top 20 things that come to mind.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:13 PM
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It hurts Biden a bit in the primaries. I know quite a few people that would be likely Biden voters but have to enforce Reagan era drug free workplace laws even for the guy crunching numbers on a spreadsheet. Has ‘gateway drug’ even been used since Nancy Reagan left the White House?

I don’t see Trump coming out in favor though. He knows his base has a lot of evangelicals.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GreysonCarlisle View Post
You make that claim, but when I think of those things, weed isn't in the top 20 things that come to mind.
The problem with immigration is real, there is a real humanitarian crisis going on. However a wall is a band-aid, we need to address the core issue and thats why people are fleeing their home countries. The reason why there is a reason for them to leave initially is because of the shit the US has done for decades south of the border meddling in virtually every country down there propping up dictators overthrowing regimes, etc... such as when Obama legitimized the hondoras coup in 2009. That caused part of the problem with these drug cartels who capitalized on instability in these states. These cartels power stems from the instability of these states, and their wealth. The cartels are funded primarily by the US market, they sell their drugs at high price low quality in the States so they make a killing. Marijuana being one of the former top drug imports. IIRC the statistic was 70% of drug smuggling inbetween ports of entry were marijuana related but then in 2013 continuously dropped as legalization rose. Legalizing drugs puts a dent in the profits of the cartels and blackmarket.

In regards to healthcare Marijuana can work in several ways, anti depressant alternative, sleep med alternative, pain killer alternative, it can be used for a wide variety of issues. And with legalization we can have better study and research done, we also are then able to regulate safety, quality and potency of the substance. Many people self-medicate using marijuana, which is preferable to alcohol, or some prescription meds. Anecdotally I threw about 60 oxys in the trash because they made me constipated when i broke my clavicle as a teen. Marijuana just as effective in pain control, and had less negative side effects (can get too high/paranoid, but didn't have constipation or sick to my stomach). There are people with more severe medical issues who've used weed as a replacement medicine that has been more effective than the medicine they were initially prescribed.

And as for criminal justice, i think everyone here at least understands too many people have been arrested for drug charges especially simple possession of marijuana, and it disproportionately has affected blacks. Sure biden backtracked saying he would not jail people for weed, but if it remains federally illegal you're still going to have people getting in trouble for it, and unable to file taxes on their weed businesses.
  #41  
Old 11-18-2019, 09:18 PM
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It hurts Biden a bit in the primaries. I know quite a few people that would be likely Biden voters but have to enforce Reagan era drug free workplace laws even for the guy crunching numbers on a spreadsheet. Has ‘gateway drug’ even been used since Nancy Reagan left the White House?

I don’t see Trump coming out in favor though. He knows his base has a lot of evangelicals.
It depends on what his staffers tell him to do. They'll look at the research like that recent pew study that was showing 49% of boomer republican ssupporting legal marijuana, and over 50% of genX republicans supporting it.

Trump holds no concrete positions as we all know. Theres a very real possibility that his campaign decides to pull the trigger on legalizing marijuana, and knowing the trump cultists, they will follow him to death even if it means legalizing weed even if they disagreed with it their entire lives they will change their mind for him. I forget the study but there was one I saw that said something along the lines of majority of trump supporters cannot think of anything that would change their mind to vote for trump. Basically trump is immune, he can do whatever he wants and his base will follow, and ofc the republicans will follow too because they want to line their pockets.


Edit: To emphasize this point, In trumps book he advocated for Universal Healthcare, citing it would be good for businesses and increase employee wages. He even hinted at support for universal healthcare during the 2016 campaign. Yet he changed his position he held for years instantly overnight because his camp calculated it would be a good move. So if they do the same for weed, if he thinks he can pull those independent and fake dems, he's going to do it, and it'll work imo.

Last edited by Barack Obama; 11-18-2019 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:21 PM
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Biden did not backtrack. His position remains the same as he made out six months ago as I posted above. It did not register outrage then. His position is pretty identical to the position Hillary Clinton took and it didn't cost her in the primary. And in the GE Donald Trump did not go as far as her stance on marijuana. He generally ducked the questions never taking beyond state rights.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
I hope it does beat Biden in the primaries, but I'll still be voting Not Trump come Election Day.

I fear for Warren's chances and I know Sanders can't win the Primary. Is the country ready for Buttigieg? Small city, very young, would be the youngest President ever. First gay President. But he is moderate without being a doddering old fool like Biden. He is a Vet, that should help I hope.
Why do you feel Sanders can't win the primary? The liberal vote is pretty strongly for him or warren and liberals make up about half of democratic voters. That alone should give him a good chance. Liberals (and tea party conservatives) are overrepresented in politics. I think liberals make up 10% of the public, but they make up 16% of registered voters and 25% of actual voters (ie, they get more involved in politics). So you'd assume in primaries they are if anything higher than 50% of democratic voters.

Black voters make up about 1/4 of democratic voters. They don't connect with Sanders, they prefer Biden more. Which is fine.

I 'think' the other 1/4 of democratic voters are latinos, moderate democrats, etc. They may not prefer Sanders but like black people I am sure they'd vote for him over Trump in a general.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:38 PM
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Why do you feel Sanders can't win the primary? The liberal vote is pretty strongly for him or warren and liberals make up about half of democratic voters. That alone should give him a good chance. Liberals (and tea party conservatives) are overrepresented in politics. I think liberals make up 10% of the public, but they make up 16% of registered voters and 25% of actual voters (ie, they get more involved in politics). So you'd assume in primaries they are if anything higher than 50% of democratic voters.

Black voters make up about 1/4 of democratic voters. They don't connect with Sanders, they prefer Biden more. Which is fine.

I 'think' the other 1/4 of democratic voters are latinos, moderate democrats, etc. They may not prefer Sanders but like black people I am sure they'd vote for him over Trump in a general.
There is a core group of Dems that just see Sanders as a carpetbagger and that he helped get Trump elected. I am quite confident he can't get majority support even in a brokered convention situation.

I see zero point in addressing your vague yet specifically numbered demographic recollections and ruminations.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:53 PM
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There is a core group of Dems that just see Sanders as a carpetbagger and that he helped get Trump elected. I am quite confident he can't get majority support even in a brokered convention situation.

I see zero point in addressing your vague yet specifically numbered demographic recollections and ruminations.
That core group is referred to as the establishment.

Those voters are referred to as low informed, and or centrist.

Sanders didn't help Trump get elected, on the contrary the DNC rigging their primaries against sanders, the media sweeping him under the rug while giving Trump billions in free air time, is what gave Trump the win. If they had pushed Sanders instead of Hillary, we would not have lost 2016.

Also how confident are you? Are you willing to place money on that? Personally, I have. So which one of us is more confident?
  #46  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:52 PM
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That core group is referred to as the establishment.

Those voters are referred to as low informed, and or centrist.

Sanders didn't help Trump get elected, on the contrary the DNC rigging their primaries against sanders, the media sweeping him under the rug while giving Trump billions in free air time, is what gave Trump the win. If they had pushed Sanders instead of Hillary, we would not have lost 2016.

Also how confident are you? Are you willing to place money on that? Personally, I have. So which one of us is more confident?
That's nice and all but I wasn't referring to the merits of the case. People feel this even though they've probably seen your argument in some form.
  #47  
Old 11-19-2019, 12:14 AM
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I think Biden is under the impression that he's appealing to flyover country rednecks.
I won't rule out that Biden is one of those semi-mythical politicians whose publicly stated opinions are his ... actual personal opinions!
  #48  
Old 11-19-2019, 12:23 AM
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I'm an undecided Democratic voter in Michigan. I 100% support the legalization of weed, and voted for it in the recent statewide referendum to legalize it. This "announcement" by Biden doesn't make me any less likely to vote for him in either the primary or general.

In fact, I suspect most people who "favor" it just don't give a shit about marijuana, but don't think it makes sense to criminalize it any more. Anecdotally speaking, that's my take on it, and that was the reason my 72-year-old evangelical Democrat mom voted to legalize it too. I have no plans to smoke or otherwise ingest it after it becomes legal here for recreational use on December 1. In addition, most cities across Michigan, despite overwhelming support from voters for legalizing it, are still banning retail locations. And that tells me that just because people are good with legalizing it doesn't mean people are clamoring for it, either for their own personal use or as a campaign talking point.

This has cost Biden basically nothing imo.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 11-19-2019 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:43 AM
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(in Maurey’s voice from Big Mouth) Stupid oldie. Meanwhile these watermelon flaved gummy bears are making me fully desire the samples we got from the government in the ‘80s. Right, Connie?

Connie: Oh, hell yeah, ya grey-haired lovin-boy toy. Mmm-mmm, old Biden be competin’ with Mommy-lovin’ Pencey-poo only for an extra blanket. And it got all them capital Ts all over it. Smells like old vodka and baaaaad steak.
  #50  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
I'm an undecided Democratic voter in Michigan. I 100% support the legalization of weed ... I have no plans to smoke or otherwise ingest it after it becomes legal here for recreational use on December 1.
I recall reading about some Dutch people who never smoked weed at home, where it's legal, but smoked it as tourists in the U.S. just for the thrill of doing something illegal!
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